Govia Thameslink/Rail Electrification

Debate between Lord Johnson of Marylebone and Jonathan Edwards

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Joseph Johnson]

My hon. Friend refers to the Secretary of State’s strategic vision for rail, published last November, which seeks more integration between train operating companies and Network Rail to ensure less buck passing and less of the blame game in the future. A foretaste of how that will work can be seen in the new west coast partnership and the east coast partnership publications.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The Campaign to Electrify Britain’s Railway has calculated that the cost of electrifying the main line between Swansea and Cardiff at today’s prices is only £150 million, which is considerably cheaper than the Department’s estimation. Electrification has been rolled out across Europe, and indeed in Scotland, at a cost of about £1 million per mile, while High Speed 2 will cost more than £400 million. Will the Minister look again at the CEBR figures and finish the job of electrifying the main line all the way to the west of my country?

[Joseph Johnson]

Our focus in the Department is on securing the greatest passenger benefits in a tax-efficient and value-for-money way. It was found that electrifying the route between Cardiff and Swansea would provide poor value for money and little by way of incremental time savings to passengers. It would not bring the significant journey time savings we would expect for such an expenditure and would result in significant disruption for passengers on the line.

Draft Welsh Ministers (Transfer Of Functions) (Railways) Order 2018

Debate between Lord Johnson of Marylebone and Jonathan Edwards

Monday 23rd April 2018 General Committees

[Joseph Johnson]

I thank all hon. Members for the points made. I will try to address as many of them as I can. I will happily write to Committee members afterwards about those I do not address now.

The Government are delivering on our commitment to give the Welsh Government greater control over Wales and Borders services. The devolution of these rail powers is an example of effective co-operation between the UK and Welsh Governments. An example of that effective co-operation is the cross-border working that is now under way. The UK and Welsh Governments are finalising a co-operation and collaboration agreement that will set out arrangements for partnership working in respect of the management of the next Wales and Borders franchise and the operation and procurement of passenger rail services operating in Wales by other franchises. That will include an enhanced consultation role for Welsh Ministers.

A number of questions were asked about the bidding process and the state of bids for the next franchise. The withdrawal of Arriva and Abellio from the bidding process is a matter for the Welsh Government, as they are now responsible for it. It is not uncommon for bidders for major projects to withdraw during tender processes. With final tenders due later this year, two bids remain in the running—MTR and KeolisAmey—which is sufficient to have a competitive process. The shadow Minister asked about the nature of the bidders allowed to participate in the process. The Railways Acts that she referred to do not prevent not-for-profit organisations from bidding for rail franchises. The Welsh Government were able to encourage bids from not-for-profit organisations for the current Wales and Borders franchise procurement.

The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr asked a number of questions about the devolution settlement and rail. The Government believe that it would be undesirable to reopen discussions on Silk recommendations on which there has not been a clear consensus. We do not intend to revisit the question of devolving Network Rail funding given the discussions on the issue during the St David’s Day process. The Department for Transport continues to liaise closely with the Welsh Government on the specification and funding of Network Rail’s operations in England and Wales for each five-year railway control period to ensure that Welsh requirements for increased capacity on the network are reflected. As part of Network Rail’s devolution arrangements, the Welsh Government will be represented on the Wales route supervisory board within Network Rail, and the board will work in partnership to drive improvements for customers in the Wales and Borders area and to hold industry to account.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about delays to the devolution process and the amount of time it has taken to get us to this place. The delay in transferring rail powers to Welsh Ministers has not adversely affected the procurement process for the next franchise. The formal transfer of powers has required the resolution of a number of detailed policy and practical considerations on cross-border services that has taken longer than anticipated. However, as I hope we have illustrated, we have been working closely with the Welsh Government throughout to ensure that they can proceed in a timely manner with the franchise procurement. The ongoing procurement of the next franchise, as I said in my opening remarks, is being facilitated through agency agreements enabling Welsh Ministers to exercise the Secretary of State’s relevant functions in advance of the draft order being made.

Members also asked about Government spending on the railways in Wales overall. The Department for Transport continues to liaise closely with the Welsh Government on the specification and funding of Network Rail’s operations in England and Wales for each five-year railway control period to ensure that requirements in Wales for increased capacity on that bit of the network are reflected. We are investing a record amount in Wales’s rail infrastructure. Network Rail’s proposed budget for control period 6, which runs from 2019 to 2024, is more than £1.3 billion. As Members know, we do not allocate transport funding in England and Wales on a per-head-of-population basis, and the Wales route is not being short-changed. Our spending goes where it is most needed and where it delivers the greatest value for money. We make decisions based on rigorous and fair appraisal processes that ensure just that.

The hon. Member for York Central asked about electrification and Cardiff and Swansea in particular. We remain committed to delivering the right outcomes for rail transport in Wales. As Ministers have said before, however, we will only commit to electrifying lines where it will genuinely provide a real benefit to passengers. A recent reappraisal of electrification between Cardiff and Swansea found it to be poor value for money, with a benefit-to-cost ratio of just 0.3. The introduction of the bi-mode intercity express trains means that we no longer need to electrify the Great Western route between Cardiff and Swansea. We are improving journeys for passengers in south Wales sooner than expected, without the need to carry out disruptive electrification works along the Great Western route between Cardiff and Swansea.

[Jonathan Edwards]

If the bi-mode trains are so good, can I take it that it will be bi-mode trains running on HS2?

[Joseph Johnson]

I will not be drawn on the procurement decisions for HS2 at this point. The point I wanted to make, and made, was that the bi-mode trains on this stretch of the network will deliver substantially the same benefits for passengers that electrification would, at considerably better value for money.

[Joseph Johnson]

Clearly it will not be the same as electrification, because it will not require the disruptive works overhead, the gantries and so on, which would have affected passenger journeys. The introduction of the new bi-mode trains will, however, deliver substantially the same passenger benefits and, as I said in response to the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, at considerably better value for taxpayers.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I travel on that line every week to come down to London. The busiest section both ways in terms of passenger numbers is the journey between Swansea and Cardiff, the two major cities in Wales. The journey time now with the new trains is longer than it was with the old trains, because the new trains are far larger and take more time to slow down when entering stations such as Port Talbot and Bridgend before they enter Cardiff.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Johnson of Marylebone and Jonathan Edwards

Thursday 19th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Joseph Johnson]

On the contrary, equivalent trains to the ones that will be in service were already operational. As I have just said, bi-mode trains that are capable of running at more than 120 mph in diesel mode are already now in use on the Great Western main line.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

12. What discussions he has had with the Prime Minister on the cancellation of the electrification of the Great Western main line between Cardiff and Swansea.

Student Loans Company

Debate between Lord Johnson of Marylebone and Jonathan Edwards

Monday 20th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Joseph Johnson]

Mr Lamey did not live up to the standards the SLC board felt were required for his role, so it took action to dismiss him, and the Department for Education followed on by removing his function as accounting officer. We want the SLC to continue to be a high-performing organisation, and we should remember that overall it is a successful organisation, with just 0.1% of its customers complaining every year. Many private sector organisations would envy such a record.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

In his initial response, the Minister referred to last week’s “Panorama” revelations. Is he aware of any Welsh higher education institutions that have been caught up in fraudulent activity, and what discussions has he had with the Welsh Government?

[Joseph Johnson]

I am personally not aware of any such allegations, but they would be a matter for the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales and the Welsh regulatory authorities. If the hon. Gentleman is aware of any, he should not lose any time in relaying his concerns to the appropriate bodies.