Press Regulation

Lord Hunt of Wirral Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd April 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I understand what the noble Baroness and your Lordships are implying, but one of the key facets of Leveson was precisely that there should be a voluntary self-regulatory system. However, Parliament has obviously put in place incentives whereby we very much hope that there will be recognition through the Recognition Panel for whatever self-regulator there is.

[Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree with the conclusion of Sir Brian Leveson that the “ideal outcome” to this process would be,

“a satisfactory independent regulatory body, established by the industry”?

If he does, will he therefore welcome the progress that is being made by Sir Hayden Phillips and his appointment panel in selecting an independent chair and a new board for the Independent Press Standards Organisation?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I said before, I think we are all seeking an outcome to command public confidence that there is a means of proper redress and that we also ensure the freedom of the press. The principles of Lord Justice Leveson’s report are based on independent and effective press self-regulation. I therefore welcome the progress in setting up a self-regulator, as I do the formation of the Recognition Panel.

House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill

Lord Hunt of Wirral Excerpts

Friday 28th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome the Bill. I will confine my remarks to Clause 1, as the other clauses were not addressed by the Leader’s Group, which I had the honour to chair. I am delighted to see that my noble friend Lord Hunt of Kings Heath—if I may call him that—is going to sum up, because together we served on that Leader’s Group with the noble Baronesses, Lady Farrington of Ribbleton, Lady Murphy and Lady Scott of Needham Market, and my noble friend Lady Sharples. I am very grateful to them because, in a way, we are at a key moment in the recommendations that we made, which were approved by this House on 28 June 2011.

However, first, I pay warm tribute to my noble friend Lord Steel of Aikwood for his perseverance. I remember that Walter Elliott said in The Spiritual Life: Doctrine and Practice of Christian Perfection:

“Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after another”.

In many ways, he is an example to us all of how to maintain a good case and eventually succeed.

I want to refer to paragraphs 32 and 48 of our report. In referring to paragraph 32, I pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Grenfell. I have been with him for 17 out of his 18 years, and I thank him for the steady flow of wise advice that he has directed at me. I know that I speak for many others in this place in paying tribute to him. How right he was today to talk about incremental reform and to refer us to the necessity of a carefully thought-out mosaic. This Bill fits that scenario and it is very important that we get on with it as quickly as possible.

I want to refer to paragraph 32 because I have always felt strongly that there should be a better procedure for allowing Members of this House to retire with honour and dignity. The noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, has just done that, but I and my colleagues argued in our report that there should be a little more than just an opportunity in this debate. As the Lord Speaker knows, we feel that the Lord Speaker could play a key part in making sure that there is a ceremony—we refer to the introduction ceremony, although that is very formal—or some other way of recognising good service.

Ernest Hemingway said:

“Retirement is the ugliest word in the language”,

but it is not if it is set in context. Honour and dignity are very persuasive words and perhaps we can build that context. The noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, has demonstrated throughout his lifetime of service—although it is only 18 years, it perhaps feels like a lifetime of service—that, as Aristotle said:

“Dignity consists not in possessing honours but in deserving them”.

He deserves our grateful thanks for all that he has achieved. I hope that further thought will be given to a way in which we can continue to recognise substantial service to this House.

The other paragraph that I will refer to briefly is paragraph 48. My noble friend Lord Steel of Aikwood said that there should be no additional money, but there must be a way of ensuring that Peers who retire get support if they ever need it. We recommended in paragraph 48 that,

“a fund, resourced entirely by voluntary contributions from members and at no cost to public funds, should be established to assist retired members who might otherwise experience financial hardship”.

As I understand it, apart from individual actions and party contributions, no steps have been taken to implement that particular recommendation. I think that we should return to it now because, with the much called-for provision for statutory retirement, we anticipate that others will wish to call time on a lifetime of service to this House, and we owe it to them to make sure that, if anything occurs at any stage in the future to make them appeal for help, that help will be forthcoming.

I say to all noble Lords that this is a very important step—but only a step—in the right direction. There must be more action in the future, and I very much look forward to hearing the Leader of the House outline those steps. Let us get on with it.

Procedure of the House: Select Committee Report

Lord Hunt of Wirral Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Empey]

A few years ago, it was decided in Northern Ireland to reduce the number of councils and to reduce the number of councillors. At that stage, it was advanced that, in order to encourage older members to retire, a financial reward would be worked out on the basis of £1,000 per year of service, or something to that effect. Local government reform was very slow to come about and eventually, about a year ago, it stalled, and that coincided with the financial restraints that we are all facing. The effect of that was that the old councils were re-elected last month, and those councillors who were being encouraged to leave hung on like grim death in the hope that the financial rewards would be forthcoming. My concern is that while the idea that there may be a reward in respect of retirement is out there, who in their right mind, except the most public spirited, is going to come forward?

I have to say to the Chairman of Committees that that issue needs to be resolved immediately because as long as it is possible for people to believe that they will receive a financial reward, there is a high prospect that they will not put their names in the hat. That issue needs resolving immediately otherwise the effect of this discussion will be that nobody will come forward.

[Lord Hunt of Wirral]

My Lords, no one will be surprised if I say how important I believe this debate is and how warmly I pay tribute to the Chairman of Committees and to the Procedure Committee for bringing forward the subject on which there has always been extensive debate, but very little decision. I say to my noble friend Lord Elton that I have been enjoying myself reading through back copies of Hansard from the 1950s and found some significant contributions on this very subject from his late father Lord Elton. I commend them because they demonstrate exactly why it is so difficult for us to reach a decision.

First, I must pay tribute to the other members of the group that I had the honour of chairing, in particular to my namesake the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath. We have a wonderful life together because he is constantly being upbraided for comments I have made and, if I may say so, so am I for comments that he has made. On this occasion, we came to a unanimous view.

Much of some of the last few speeches was about the financial implications, but all of us on the Leader’s Group were united that there must be a rule: not a penny more. The public would not accept it if we were to spend a great deal of taxpayer’s money in making sure that people had an incentive to retire. If I may answer some of the questions asked in the debate, the Procedure Committee’s report states:

“We have not considered … the financial aspects of any scheme for voluntary retirement, which, were the House to agree to this report, would be a matter for the House Committee”.

Therefore, I am not sure we should occupy a great deal of important time by debating this issue at this stage because we are not asked to decide it.

What we have come forward with for the first time ever is a scheme to allow Members of this House to retire with honour and dignity. I want to say a few words about that, but I also want to pay tribute to the other members of the Leader’s Group and to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and the Leader of the House my noble friend Lord Strathclyde, who initiated this whole debate, to the nearly 100 Members of this House who have spent a great deal of time and effort putting forward their views in debate or in correspondence with the Leader’s Group and to Mary Ollard who did so much fine work in bringing together all that we decided.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Lord Hunt of Wirral Excerpts

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

I think it would be helpful if I set out the Front Bench’s position. Our position is that it would be a good thing to split the Bill. At the end of last week, I believed that the Motion would have the effect of splitting the Bill. Further constructive discussions with the Clerks yesterday revealed that if the Bill were split, it would nevertheless have to come back together again before it went to the Commons. In those circumstances there is no purpose in a split unless the Government agree to a split which allows the two Bills in the hypothetical split to go at separate paces. It seems obvious that the Bills should go at separate paces, because one has the drop-dead deadline of 5 May whereas the other, which is much bigger, will take longer.

The Front Bench’s position is that we support the principle of a split but recognise that this Motion cannot achieve it. We will therefore not support it in any vote. I understand from my noble friend Lady McDonagh that she will not press it to a vote. We support her in asking the Government to think about that. I have just one further point. Should anyone in this House wish there to be any delay, I suggest that they urge the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, to make more speeches.

[Lord Hunt of Wirral]

My Lords, I rise just to respond to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton—it is a brief point. Life is always difficult in opposition, particularly when one has been in government for so long. I underwent 13 years of opposition and recall that I could have resorted to procedural devices on many occasions.

It is no use the noble and learned Lord shouting from a sedentary position.

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

Let me make clear our position: we are not supporting the Motion. So perhaps this avuncular chat could be postponed to another occasion.

[Lord Hunt of Wirral]

I want to know who is the uncle.

All I will say is that we have suddenly begun to embark on a number of procedural debates. That is all well and good, and it is part of the tradition of the House that we should do so. However, I question whether we need to explore the uncertain waters of hybridity, and whether we should ignore 99 years of tradition by questioning a money Bill. Now when we need to proceed to our normal function of revising and improving a Bill, I simply say to the Opposition that they should take time to think.

When I was opposing the noble Lord, Lord Mandelson, of Foy, on the Postal Services Bill, I was made aware that there were two or three procedural devices that I could have resorted to had I wanted to delay the Bill. I reached the conclusion that I should do my best from the Front Bench to enable this House to do what it always does well, which is to revise and improve. I would just say that reputations take generations to build, but they can be lost overnight by an irresponsible Opposition.

I know that my uncle, the noble and learned Lord, responds to Shakespeare. Perhaps I may just quote again:

“O! I have lost my reputation. I have lost the immortal part of myself, and what remains is bestial”.

They should think again.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

My Lords, I cannot understand why the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, criticises the Opposition when in fact the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, got up to say that he does not support the Motion and that—if it were put to vote, which it is not going to be—he would not vote for it. I really cannot understand why the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, started to put it about regarding the noble and learned Lord.

The problem arises—do not make any mistake about it—not because of this Motion but because the Government decided to put two separate matters together in a single Bill. That is the real problem. The noble Lord, Lord McNally, may laugh, but he knows perfectly well that if he had been sitting on those Benches he would have been doing exactly the same thing. He would be opposing the bringing together of two completely separate issues.

To make it even worse, the Bill presumes to hold a referendum on a very important constitutional issue—the method of voting—on the same day as the local elections and the Assembly elections. That has already been discussed at Second Reading but, nevertheless, it is a bad thing to do. The issue of AV voting is so constitutionally important that it should have been dealt with on a separate date, after proper examination and proper information to the people of this country.

Interim Report: Leader's Group on Members Leaving the House

Lord Hunt of Wirral Excerpts

Tuesday 16th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Wirral]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster for giving us this opportunity to debate a vital subject, and I should like to spend a few moments explaining why it is important. Like my noble friend Lady Scott of Needham Market, I and the other members of the Leader’s Group, all of whom are now present in the Chamber, are here primarily to listen. We shall meet tomorrow morning to go through each and every contribution that is made to the debate to ensure that we learn all the lessons that can be learnt from the points made.

First, I am acutely aware of how sensitive an issue this is for all noble Lords. When my noble friend the Leader of the House first asked me if I would chair the Leader’s Group and showed me the mission statement—to identify options for allowing Members to leave the House of Lords permanently—I was reminded of an impossible task I was once set by a previous Prime Minister, who said, “But, David, as a lawyer you can always explain the inexplicable”; I should have added, “and defend the indefensible”. I am grateful to all of your Lordships for the confidence and support you have been good enough to show me and my colleagues on the Leader’s Group in our taking on of this difficult task. I am also grateful for your willingness to share with us your experience and understanding of this House. I thank also the other members of the group for the wisdom, humour and openness which they have brought to our discussions.

In approaching our task of identifying the options for allowing Members to leave the House permanently, I have been unsure about whether we are being asked to find a short-term solution to a long-term problem or a long-term solution to a short-term problem—an issue to which the noble Lord, Lord Desai, has already referred—and, until the Deputy Prime Minister’s cross-party committee publishes its draft Bill, that will remain the case.

However, it is clear that there is an immediate issue which has to be resolved. We are all conscious of the increasing difficulty at times of finding a seat in the Chamber; of the increasing difficulty of finding a slot for an Oral Question; and of the occasions when the length of a list of speakers means that the time available for individual speeches is inconveniently short. Put simply, to quote a very great person, we need to consider how to manage our increasing numbers,

“because we are too menny”.

The written submissions received by the group are as diverse and wide-ranging as I thought possible. I should have expected that from a collection of independent-minded parliamentarians. The common thread I detect is a sincere concern for the effective functioning of the second Chamber of the United Kingdom’s Parliament and for our reputation. It is that common thread which emboldens me to hope that we might be able to establish a consensus view. I think it is possible and, after listening to the Convenor of the Cross-Bench Peers, the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, I sense that we are on the threshold of finding a range of solutions which might meet the approval of the House and enable us to take the initiative in reshaping the House for the better, whether fundamental reform should be achieved sooner or later.

Inevitably, as evidenced by the right reverend Prelate, the options proposed are influenced by our different experiences of the House and of life outside. Inevitably, some options are more realistic than others in terms of public policy. One objective of the Leader’s Group in giving in our interim report the range of options proposed was to remind everyone of the wide range of views on a single issue which it is possible for thoughtful and principled people to hold.

My noble friend Lady Scott and the noble Baroness the Convenor have just outlined the concept of the associate membership. A number of other Members have already raised it. We look forward to hearing any further views on that.

The objective of today's debate is to hear the views of your Lordships on the range of options which have so far been proposed and perhaps to identify any other possible solutions. I am grateful to my noble friend the Leader of the House for facilitating today's debate. There will be an opportunity for everyone to consider submitting further written comments to the group—we have put a deadline of 23 November on that.

Today’s debate is a further consultative exercise. The Convenor spoke of an immediate moratorium on new appointments to the House. I recognise that that may seem like a sensible move to some because of the need to manage our numbers, but it is not an idea which has very much attraction because the expertise and currency of your Lordships’ House have to be refreshed from time to time. To say to our political leaders that they will no longer have the opportunity to reinforce their troops, particularly when the political landscape changes substantially as it has done this year, would be a significant step which I would not want this House to take. I should mention to the Convenor that there is a view that we should separate the honour of a life peerage from the role of a Member of the upper House.

Let us all bring our collective wisdom and expertise to finding a solution to an intractable, but certainly not insoluble, problem.

[Lord Campbell of Alloway]

Perhaps I may ask my noble friend two very short questions. Whatever may be the option, is it not wholly essential that the due process by which any Member of this House has imposed a leave of absence should first be accepted by the House? Secondly, in respect of all our peerages, whether life peerages or hereditary peerages, ought not the approval of Her Majesty the Queen be sought as a matter of courtesy?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Hunt of Wirral]

The best and most direct answer to my noble friend on his two questions is that we will obviously report with our recommendations. If legislation were required, it would have to be debated in this Chamber and eventually have to go to the Sovereign for Royal Assent.

I sense that there is a wish to try to find a solution. If we can find that solution, we should take steps to bring it into force as soon as possible.