UK Defence: Hypersonic Missiles

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Coaker

Monday 3rd March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Chagos deal that my noble friend seeks me to address, let me just say this: the fundamental point from our point of view is that the Diego Garcia military base remains in the hands of the Americans through the lease arrangement that we have got, should the Chagos deal go through. That is the most important part of that deal.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Would the Minister agree that these hypersonic missiles are really the great-great grandchildren of the original V-2 after the Second World War—although obviously with far greater range and far more accuracy? Would he also agree that, judging by current Russian strategy, the targets they will probably go for first are the power stations? Destroy the utilities and you bring about social and political collapse—that is their doctrine. Would he therefore give us an assurance that we are thinking about much better defence for our power station and utility facilities, and that we are thinking about things like a sort of Iron Dome-plus-plus, which again will require American support, in order to ensure that we are not destroyed by these missiles before we have the right defences in place?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I am not sure an Iron Dome-type arrangement is the best way in which to defend our cities. The noble Lord is absolutely right to point out that, given the wake-up call we have had from Ukraine and the way that warfare is developing, the defence of critical national infrastructure will be absolutely essential for us as we go forward.

The homeland defence of this country is something that we have not thought about—whatever the rights and wrongs of that—for a number of years. We are going to have to consider homeland defence, whether that threat comes from drones, hypersonic missiles or through threats to underwater cables. The development of that homeland defence will play a crucial part in the way that we defend our country and our ability to work with our allies to defend not only Europe but other places across the world. So, the noble Lord is absolutely right to point that out about critical national infrastructure.

As the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, pointed out, this has been a wake-up call to us all. Who would have expected two, three, five or 10 years ago that in this Chamber we would be talking about how this country defends itself against a potential attack on our critical national infrastructure? But that is where we are and that is what this Government will do. We take that seriously and the defence review will address it. It is certainly important for all of us to defend that, and the British public should know it.

Fiscal Policy: Defence Spending

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Coaker

Monday 3rd February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

On VAT on school fees and the impact on military families, as the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, just pointed out, the Government have increased the continuity of education allowance, which now meets some 90% of the increase in fees that military families will face as a consequence of the VAT rise. That allowance is there to support military families in the way she said, and the VAT increase has been met in a way that is consistent with that policy, through the uplift in the allowance to 90%.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister was speaking earlier this afternoon with perspicacity about the changing nature of warfare. Does he agree that when we talk of defence expenditure, we are talking far beyond the MoD budget and the cost of military equipment? New technology threatens and exposes the civilian population as never before, and more directly than at any time in our history. In the Russian attack on Ukraine, it is the attack on its infrastructure, facilities and energy systems that is seen as the main assault, undermining and demoralising the civilian population and destroying any achievements made on the front line. Will the Minister assure us that in looking at our defence expenditure, we are focused on energy and the fact that equipment now exists which would destroy our entire energy system and create social chaos in an amazingly short time?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his important question. Notwithstanding the debate about the total quantity of defence expenditure, he is right to point out the changing nature of warfare. We are looking to see how we can further protect the underwater cables that bring energy to this country; he might have seen some of the debate that took place last week on that. The RFA “Proteus”, which was bought for the RFA by the previous Government, is one example of how we do that. The defence review is looking at the purchase of a second ship, and various other capabilities are being developed. The noble Lord also made the point about our own critical national infrastructure. There is no doubt that we will have to consider homeland security and how we protect that infrastructure, and the defence review will do that. As I said earlier, hybrid warfare and the way systems are impacted by data and those sorts of attacks also needs to be considered.

Combat Air Capability

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Coaker

Thursday 10th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

The review will, of course, look at the necessary profile with respect to air, land, sea and intelligence and technology sharing. The Government have made an absolute commitment to 2.5% and are determined to deliver on that as soon as they can.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I did not quite hear the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, on Japan, but does the Minister agree that the huge Tempest deal with Italy and Japan is very much at the centre of this whole issue and that it really is going forward in a positive way? This is a very crucial time, when our relations with Japan are much improved and with all sorts of plans ahead, and it would be fatal if this one had a wobble.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord; that is a good question. We have made as firm a commitment as we can, although I have said that it is also part of the ongoing review that the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, is undertaking. We have made a commitment to Italy and Japan and the noble Lord will know that the GCAP International Government Organisation was set up to run that programme. Its headquarters are in the UK. On 2 October, just a week or so ago, the King ratified the final part of the SI to ensure that the treaty was put in place. That shows that the Government are making progress with respect to the GCAP programme.

Tempest Global Combat Air Programme

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Coaker

Tuesday 23rd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank the noble and gallant Lord for his question and thank him in anticipation of the sorts of thoughtful comments that he will make and the help that he will give to me and others as we seek to defend our country in the best possible way. He makes a really important point on the GCAP. It is an important alliance between Japan, Italy and ourselves that gives us the opportunity to work with Japan and others—but in particular Japan—to develop that technological progress and partnership, which will be so important as we take this programme forward.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

I declare my interests as in the register. Would the Minister agree that, recently, Japanese industry and its economy and the British economy have been getting on extremely well, with increased co-operation—much better than way back before the Brexit interruption? Would he agree that the sources of our biggest productivity increases of the past 50 years were when we were getting massive Japanese investment in the 1970s and 1980s? In the light of both those thoughts, does he accept that we must be very careful in continuing this progress and doing nothing impetuous that undermines the close co-operation that the Japanese want to have with us and are seeking in many other areas as well?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

As I said in answer to the question from the noble and gallant Lord—and the noble Lord makes the point for himself—the relationship between ourselves and Japan is extremely important. The technological advantage that both the UK and Japan get from our close partnership is extremely important. As I said in answer to the original Question, progress continues on the GCAP with the other partner, Italy. A strategic defence review will look at all the various programmes, but progress continues.