Liaison Committee

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 12th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I warmly endorse what the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, has just said. I think many of your Lordships are aware, and I am sure that the noble Lord is aware, that the global established order is now unravelling. Vast changes are taking place in foreign policy and in the interests and the promotion of the safeguarding of this country. Your Lordships’ House is full of considerable expertise on these matters, both long-term and short-term. I have heard it suggested that we must not duplicate the work of the Foreign Affairs Committee in the other place. I have to say that having been for 10 years the chair of that committee, I have some experience of how it works and I believe that there is no danger of duplication at all. On the contrary, if there was an international affairs committee in your Lordships’ House, it would be able to take up, reinforce and build on the excellent reports that come from that committee. Far from duplicating or getting in the way of it, there would be a very strong case, which I believe is getting stronger by the day, for setting up such a committee. I hope that it will now be considered very carefully.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

Regarding correspondence on the establishment of an international affairs committee, perhaps I may add my voice to that of the noble Lords, Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Jopling, and my noble friend Lord Hannay, in the representations that have been made again. I draw the attention of the Chairman of Committees to the excellent debate in your Lordships’ House two days ago on the ad hoc committee that looked at soft power. It is indicative that the noble Lord has already said to us that the first of the new ad hoc committees will be on an international issue of huge importance. While that is greatly appreciated—I am grateful to the noble Lord for that—does he not agree with the point made by the noble Lord about the unravelling of the international situation and the unique expertise held here in your Lordships’ House? If there is any justification—more than any other—for the existence of your Lordships’ House, it is this collective, unique expertise that is drawn together. In the area of international affairs, we have an important and unique contribution to make. I hope that, if it is not possible today to make progress on this, the Liaison Committee will look again at this in the new Session.

Nigeria

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 24th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I cannot comment on the balance or lack of balance in any media reporting, but of course it is not always balanced, although my noble friend is right to say that there is no equality of violence. However, there are reprisals and it is true that mosques have been attacked as well as churches. We have no doubt that the new levels of horror, violence and atrocity that have been imported into northern Nigeria are initiated and have been provoked by Boko Haram.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, given that 600 people in Nigeria have already been murdered this year by Boko Haram, which states that it wants to extinguish all reference to western ideals, including democracy, why have we not proscribed it as a terrorist organisation in the United Kingdom? Has the Minister had a chance to look at the information which I have sent to his office about the links between funding organisations in the UK supporting Boko Haram?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

On the first point, it is not HMG’s policy to comment on which organisations may or may not be considered for proscription. On the funding issue raised by the noble Lord, I am very grateful to him for doing so. We were not aware before he raised it of the suggestion that funds were going from UK groups to Boko Haram. I have brought it to the attention of officials who are examining the issue, and I will write to him about it.

Democratic Republic of Congo

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 19th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is absolutely right, and I certainly welcome that accession. The African Union is playing an increasingly positive part in facing up to the regional issues in the centre of Africa and at the centre of its concerns. We certainly welcome that. Obviously the African Union has played a key part in the International Conference on the Great Lakes, which was in the margins of the meeting of the African Union in Addis Ababa the other day. It is a very good prospect that South Africa is playing a leading part, as the noble Lord describes.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, was the Minister’s reply to the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, an acceptance that Rwanda has been aiding and abetting not only M23 but the other six rebel groups that have led to 1.4 million people being displaced in the Kivu in eastern Congo? That being the case, why are we not using the £344 million of aid which we have provided to Rwanda as leverage to persuade Rwanda not to aid and abet these insurgent groups, and to do rather more to bring to justice people such as Bosco Ntaganda, who has been responsible for the recruitment of child soldiers, which has led to the deaths of countless numbers of people—a haemorrhaging loss of life that dwarfs even the terrible and tragic events in Syria by comparison?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, no one questions the atrocities and misery of these various armies. I have counted five different armies and groups involved in killing and fighting each other in the region, and there is an extreme danger of this spreading and creating mayhem more widely on both humanitarian and security grounds. That is certainly the case.

As to our leverage, our aid programme is not quite as large as the sum mentioned by the noble Lord. I have a figure of £198 million a year to the DRC, and £83 million a year to Rwanda. Certainly our judgment is that, through that aid, we have the authority and the leverage to influence the situation. I spoke to the Foreign Minister of Rwanda, Louise Mushikiwabo, about three weeks ago, as did my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Development and my honourable friend Mr Bellingham. We all impressed on her and her colleagues the necessity of facing up to the reality, and of Rwanda’s activity, as reported in the Group of Experts, to cease and to make way for a proper solution to the conflict. We are using our leverage and influence in a very nasty situation, but the way we do it obviously varies from country to country.

International Criminal Court

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 24th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress has been made in securing the arrest of Joseph Kony, Omar al-Bashir and others indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, the International Criminal Court relies entirely on state co-operation to ensure enforcement of its arrest warrants. The British Government, together with our EU partners, frequently raise the importance of states fulfilling their international obligations and taking the necessary steps to bring to justice individuals indicted by the court. Those currently fugitive from ICC warrants should be reminded that they, like Radovan Karadzic and General Mladic, cannot evade the international justice system indefinitely.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, given that Kony was indicted in 2005, and that Omar al-Bashir, who was indicted in 2009 for crimes against humanity in Darfur, is now waging a new war against his own people in Southern Kordofan, does not a failure to bring those indicted to account risk compromising the ICC and bringing it into disrepute? What resources are we committing to the work of the ICC? When a head of state is indicted by it, how is that reflected in the conduct of our economic and diplomatic policies? Either this is genocide or it is not. Either it is crimes against humanity or it is not. Either they are indicted or they are not. Either it is business as usual or it is not.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

It certainly is not business as usual. The noble Lord, who follows these things very closely, is perhaps not taking into account the fact that this system has taken some years to get going. The indictments are out but there are real problems in pinning these people down. He mentioned two cases. We know that Mr Joseph Kony is highly elusive and can slip across borders. At least the Government of Uganda were very successful the other day in capturing his deputy, Caesar Acellam. Uganda is a signatory to the ICC and I am sure that it will fulfil its obligations in accordance with international justice.

As for the leader of Sudan, we know exactly what the position is. We and our EU colleagues seek to keep contact with Khartoum because all the parties—South Sudan, Sudan itself, the opposition parties and, indeed, the Opposition—believe that we should do so. However, the problem of fulfilling an ICC charge against Mr Omar al-Bashir is obviously a practical, physical one in that he is not in reach unless he were to leave the country.

Iran: Capital Punishment

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 24th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We certainly have co-operation with all the major NGOs and international movements, which are equally concerned at the horrors in Iran. It is very hard to answer my noble friend’s first question as to what impact these comments and pressures have. My personal belief is that they do have some impact. After all, we have to remember that when the elaborate EU sanctions were discussed and formulated—they are now having, apparently, some impact on Iran—there were discussions about Iran’s human rights record and the horrific rate of persecutions and executions in that country. As far as we know, this includes over 600 people executed last year and 130 executed so far this year—indeed, 60 in the last week.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, when did Her Majesty’s Government last raise the issue of human rights with Iran? When they were in full diplomatic relations with Iran, did they discuss the execution of people for their sexual orientation, of others, such as the Baha’is and Christians, for changing their religion, and of women, who are regularly publicly executed for so-called social offences? Is this not something that we should at least be making a démarche about and certainly trying to draw the international community into full unison, not just on the security questions, which we regularly raise, but on these profoundly important human rights issue too?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The answer to the first part of the noble Lord’s question is almost continuously. However, we are constrained by the fact that our diplomatic relations with Iran are now at a very low level. As he knows, there are no ambassadors between the two countries because our embassy was attacked and had to be evacuated. So far we have not got any agreement from Tehran to our request for a protecting power to look after our interests and maintain contacts. However, that does not stop us almost continuously working with the UN special rapporteur to keep this kind of horror on the UN agenda and to keep up the international pressure in every way that we can.

Democratic Republic of Congo

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 15th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We share the concern about corruption and the need for major companies to observe the highest possible standards in their performance. The instruments through which this should be done are the EU transparency directive and the work of the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative, which is excellently chaired by Clare Short and is currently planning to set up a strategic working group to look at extending EITI standards to require a much closer look at issues of the kind that my noble friend has raised.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the extraordinarily rich deposits of minerals that are held in the DRC should be a blessing but have become a curse as marauding bands and the DRC’s neighbours have plundered those resources, leading to conflicts that have taken the lives of between 5 million and 6 million people, many of them children? Does he know that at present it is estimated that 40% of those working in the DRC’s mining industry are children? When the DRC review of mining practices takes place this year, will he use the extensive leverage that the Government have through their aid programme to ensure that at least children are removed from the mines and protected in the future?

International Criminal Court: Rome Statute

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble and learned Lord is quite right that Robin Cook was the driving force when we took the legislation through the House—with support from both sides; I was sitting on that side at the time—for setting up this remarkable body. The court is getting going but that takes time, so many of the crimes and horrors of the past are still being tried under previous legislation and therefore in separate courts. However, the ICC is making progress. What can we do about the non-signatories, particularly our allies and friends in the United States? They know perfectly well our views. For reasons that I have mentioned—or hinted at—to do with internal pressures in the United States, they have not signed; and frankly, I think that they are not very likely to. However, in terms of co-operation and help in making the operations of the ICC work, the United States has been extremely constructive and extremely helpful.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, two weeks ago in Parliament, Dr Mukesh Kapila, a former British and United Nations official, talking about South Kordofan, said that the second genocide of the 21st century is now unfolding, with more than 1 million people now affected? The area is being bombarded and people are being raped and being killed. Given that the International Criminal Court has indicted the head of state in Sudan, Omar al-Bashir, and also the governor of South Kordofan, Ahmed Mohammed Haroun, for war crimes and crimes against humanity, how can we continue to justify full diplomatic relations with mass murderers and fugitives from justice? What is being done to assist the ICC in enforcing arrest warrants in those cases?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Diplomatic relations, as the noble Lord knows from his great experience, are always a dilemma. If you break relations off completely that will be the end of contact and the opportunity to influence. Sometimes that is necessary, but we have to make a careful judgment; and that is the one that we have made so far on this matter. As for the International Criminal Court’s jurisdiction, it is quite right that the charges are outstanding against President Bashir. I think that there would have to be a further UN Security Council reference to the ICC for it to go ahead in examining these other alleged horrors and atrocities. I do not for a moment doubt what the noble Lord says about the horrors that have been going on—I think that they have been going on. It may be that the process will get under way. However, that is the only path through which we can get the ICC qualified. It cannot itself take an initiative without the support of the established procedures through the UN.

Sudan and South Sudan

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 16th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend, who is considerably closely acquainted with these issues, has raised a number of them with me. On his last point concerning the returning refugees, this is potentially a very serious problem, particularly if the Khartoum Government insist on a deadline for their return, which we utterly reject. Of course we want to see humanitarian access for the refugees in every possible way and we keep pressing on that issue.

On the other matters that my noble friend raised, we have achieved a Security Council statement at the UN but, frankly, the prospect of getting a substantial measure at the UN Security Council is just not good at the moment—the agreement is not there. There is of course an embargo on arms to the whole of Sudan—the north and the south—and that remains in place. However, while my honourable friends and other countries are working day and night to achieve more movement, I echo and share my noble friend’s realism that progress is very slow and that the commitments are not being adhered to.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that last Thursday, speaking at Westminster, the UK special representative for Sudan and South Sudan estimated that in Southern Kordofan some 300,000 people have now been displaced as a result of the aerial bombardment campaign by Khartoum? Is he also aware that on Friday last the United Nations relief agency and refugee service said that some $145 million would be needed to deal with that crisis? In a Written Answer on 21 June last, the Minister said:

“Reports of such atrocities will have to be investigated and, if they prove to be true, those responsible will need to be brought to account”.—[Official Report, 21/6/11; col. WA 294.]

In November, he said that,

“we continue … to seek urgent access to those … affected by the conflict”.—[Official Report, 9/11/11; col. WA 66.]

What progress is being made to bring to justice those responsible for this manmade catastrophe and to get access to those areas of Kordofan?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The short answer to the noble Lord is: not enough progress. The special representative to whom he refers, Michael Ryder, is at this moment back in Addis Ababa seeking to get the negotiations within the context of the African Union High-Level Implementation Panel process going again. It is a constant struggle and progress is very slow.

On the particular aspects of the increasingly horrific humanitarian situation in Southern Kordofan and in the Blue Nile area, I am advised that the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, under the guidance of our former colleague the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, does not for the moment want to press for cross-border access either to Blue Nile or to Southern Kordofan because of the impact that that would have on wider humanitarian activities in Sudan. However, it continues to press for cross-line access to all areas of Southern Kordofan. We are supporting it in that approach but we are, of course, up against the continual denial by the Khartoum Government of proper access by humanitarian agencies. It is a difficult situation.

Democratic Republic of Congo

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Wednesday 11th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

First, I salute and congratulate the noble Lord on the role he played in participating in EurAc, the network of European NGOs’ elections observation mission to the DRC elections in November. His questions are extremely apposite and are obviously backed by a deep hinterland of information.

The noble Lord asked what we can do to meet the particular problem that was reflected in the recently reported horrific FDLR killings in the east of the Democratic Republic of Congo the other day. Our strategy has three elements. First, we are funding the demobilisation, repatriation and resettlement programme, which helps to remove fighters from the battlefield. Secondly, we are very substantially supporting the UN force, MONUSCO, to the tune of £69 million, which represents over 8 per cent of its entire budget and is coming from us here in the UK. Thirdly, we are supporting sanction regimes that are aimed on a continuing basis at identifying leaders of armed groups and seeing how they can be removed from the battlefields. Those are the three broad aims that we are activating over and above the fact that the Department for International Development has a budget over the next four years of £790 million for development in DRC. This is a hugely effective programme.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, does the Minister believe that the sheer scale of irregularities in the recent DRC elections and the violence and intimidation that has arisen could have happened without the complicity of the authorities there? In the east of the Congo—the Kivu and Goma regions to which the noble Lord’s Question refers—rape has been used as a weapon of war, and in a country where more than 6 million have died in what many call Africa’s first world war over the past 25 years, what can the Government do to assist MONUSCO, particularly in the protection of vulnerable women and the bringing to justice of those responsible?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The killings in the east of the Congo that we were debating a moment ago are one thing, and it is not for me to declare that they were to do with the undoubted violence that occurred during the actual elections. I fully concede that, as the noble Lord has rightly pointed out, there were reports of irregularities during the elections, and we are not going to just ignore them and pretend that nothing went wrong; it did. The Minister for Africa, my honourable friend Henry Bellingham, has called on the DRC authorities to investigate all irregularities promptly and fairly, and we have pressed the Congolese electoral commission—CENI—to make key improvements in the compilation process for the legislative count. We will also urge CENI to carry out with international help an in-depth review of irregularities raised by the observer missions, and will press it to implement any recommendations. We are not letting the matter rest. We recognise that there were some serious irregularities and that these need to be pursued and reviewed with great vigour.

Arab Spring

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 29th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Those issues come into our fairly constant dialogue and exchanges with the countries of the Middle East as they go through reform processes at varying speeds and to varying degrees. That is the content of our exchanges in seeking to support and encourage the peaceful, democratic, liberalised development and opening up of these countries, which is directly in our own interest as a great trading nation as well.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, I am grateful. Does the Minister agree that there are worrying parallels with the situation in Iraq and Palestine, where large numbers of Christian minorities from the ancient churches have had to flee? Has he seen the figures published by the Egyptian Union of Human Rights Organisations showing that over 100,000 Coptic Christians have left the country since March this year—I declare a non-financial interest as president of the UK Coptic Association—and in particular the quotation from its director that:

“Copts are not emigrating voluntarily, they are coerced into that by threats and intimidation of hard-line Salafists, and the lack of protection they are getting from the Egyptian regime”?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I have seen a range of figures, although whether I have seen the specific reports that the noble Lord refers to, I am not so sure. I am the first to agree that these are large and worrying figures. The noble Lord mentioned Iraq. Although I do not think the Arab spring has operated to the particular detriment of religious minorities there, there have been a number of targeted attacks on minority communities—Christian, Yazidi, Shabak and others. These are worrying matters and we are constantly raising them with the Baghdad Government. As for the Egyptian situation, I have already indicated our extreme concern and our continuing dialogue, and that will certainly continue.

Iran

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, I would certainly agree. We are all—and “all” means the entire planet—threatened by nuclear proliferation and the flouting of the proliferation regime which Iran has constantly demonstrated. The noble Lord is absolutely right that although we have an unprecedented degree of sanctions, and are thinking of more sanctions and more targeted sanctions, as long as China tends to be undermining these—and, to some extent, Russia as well—those sanctions are obviously weakened in their effect. So, he is right that we all have to work together to halt a threat that is really to the entire pattern of humanity.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, in considering the kind of sanctions that might be imposed on Iran, will the Minister say whether that will include surveillance technology—the sort which has been sold to Iran by the British company Creativity Software, and which has been used in the past against democracy activists and human rights campaigners, leading to their systematic torture? What pride does it bring to this nation that we have been selling such technology to Iran?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We are discouraging every kind of trade and business with Iran, not only those covered by sanctions but also investment by oil companies, for instance, and a whole range of others as well. The specific product that the noble Lord mentioned is one that I will certainly examine, but my overall understanding is that we are discouraging in every possible way all areas of trade with Iran, over and beyond both the EU and the US sanctions.

Somalia

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 8th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I totally agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, about under-reporting. It is extraordinary how little coverage there has been of a very serious situation affecting the Indian Ocean nations of the coast of east Africa. As for vengeful retaliation, I am afraid that revenge is one of the currencies of the area. The Kenyan military operation is of course a response to the invasions into Kenya by al-Shabaab and other forces, and it is important to note that it is an attempt undertaken with the support of the TFG in Mogadishu, to bring some order and control to the situation. We have to face the reality that revenge operations may take place but there has to be a firm attempt to bring order and a better kind of control, at least to the border area between Kenya and Somalia. As to the noble Baroness’s last question, we support the Kenyan action on the conditions that I have clearly made: that it is important to ensure full compliance and that it is a legal operation under Article 51 of the UN charter.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, has the Minister seen the reports of 4 November from the United Nations that the number of Somali refugees fleeing war and drought to the Dadaab refugee complex in Kenya has increased to a staggering 463,000 people, making it the largest refugee camp in the world? Catastrophically, the numbers are growing daily. Has he also seen the reports from Médecins Sans Frontières that it can take up to 40 days for a food card to be issued to refugees, including children, which is leading to levels of malnutrition and illness growing considerably in the camp?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I have seen some but not all of the reports. We have also seen reports that there appears to be pressure to reject refugees and to run down the numbers in that location. We have urged the Kenyan authorities to continue allowing refugees in from Somalia. We recognise Kenya's huge generosity in hosting refugees, which it has done over many years, and we will continue to support these efforts in the coming months. We certainly urge Kenya not to forcibly return Somali refugees over the border. There are obviously major aspects of administration and provision, to which the noble Lord rightly alluded. We will continue to help with what is an enormous imposition and burden on Kenya at this difficult time.

Egypt

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 18th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, will the Minister return to the question that the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, put to him earlier about these events at Maspero, where this terrible massacre occurred? Specifically, would he answer her point about the nature of the inquiry to be conducted? Would he agree that, contrary to some of the reports that suggested that this was a clash between equals, these civilians were gunned down, were unarmed, and were run over by vehicles all of which were owned by the Egyptian army? How can it be right that the army should now carry out the inquiry?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

This is a perfectly serious and valid query and I recognise the interest of the noble Lord. We will pursue the matter of the nature of the inquiry. There is a swirl of different versions of what occurred. The propositions of some were that the army was not officially authorised to act, that it was supplied with blank bullets and that the shooting took place when other parties intervened. Others say exactly as the noble Lord has said. One has to get to the bottom of what occurred, and we will press very hard for the Egyptian authorities to do that. Certainly, the present situation has too many unreliable versions to be regarded as satisfactory. More truth must come out.

Burma

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 13th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, I agree with both those things. We strongly support and welcome the Aung San Suu Kyi dialogue and believe that it should be encouraged and supported at every stage.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

Does the Minister agree that, notwithstanding these tentative and welcome steps, there are still 2,000 political prisoners in Burma, some who have been sentenced to 65 years in prison? Given that some 40 per cent of Burma is comprised of ethnic minorities, has he had a chance to consider the impact of the talks with Aung San Suu Kyi and the regime on those minorities, not least because of the recent reports from the Shan state by Amnesty International that troops are using innocent civilians as human shields and minesweepers and are using systematic rape, including the rape of a 14 year-old girl?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

These are deeply worrying developments, and although we welcome the release of these initial prisoners, there remains a great deal to be done. The noble Lord’s comments indicate what challenges there are and where we have to seek major changes and major improvements. We are currently working to secure the toughest possible resolution at the UN General Assembly which we hope will repeat calls for Burma to release all political prisoners and to start working towards national reconciliation in a nation that is obviously deeply divided and riven by ethnic problems of all kinds. As the noble Lord knows, a famous book by Martin Smith on Burma’s ethnic problems reminded us of that long ago. There are many problems ahead.

Sudan

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 8th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is right. We have issued a Written Statement today trying to bring colleagues up to date with the very ugly, and, I am afraid, deteriorating, situation. The official leading the African Union implementation panel has, of course, been Mr Mbeki. However, there is increasing activity as well from President Meles of Ethiopia, who is taking a lead in trying to get the aims of the panel and all the untied-up ends of the comprehensive peace agreement carried forward. There is more involvement locally. The whole process is very much alive.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, does the Minister recall the letter that I sent him on 22 June about the events in Kadugli, where 7,000 refugees were escorted away by members of the northern Sudan military? They included women and children and they disappeared. There have been reports in the area since then of mass graves. Is this not like an unfolding Jacobean tragedy, as we hear day by day of aerial bombardment, arson attacks on villages, rape and looting and the events that were described by my noble friend? In the discussions at the Security Council today will we be pressing for these crimes against humanity to be referred to the International Criminal Court?

South Sudan

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 19th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Baroness is right and reinforces what I was saying a moment ago. This report is extremely worrying and full of evidence of really serious atrocities. She has further elaborated and underlined that. The question is what the UN agencies, UNMIS itself and the reporting authorities are going to do about it. I have to tell the noble Baroness that as far as the British Government and my honourable friend Mr Bellingham, who was at the United Nations, are concerned, our urging has been that this report should go forward to the Security Council and be fully discussed in the light of the grim and terrible reports that it contains. That is the position so far. I cannot tell the noble Baroness exactly what is going to happen next or how it will be handled, but that is HMG’s position on the matter.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, on the report that the noble Lord has referred to and which I sent him a copy of yesterday, he will recall that two weeks ago I sent him a report from Kadugli where UNMIS soldiers themselves were responsible for handing over people who were seeking refuge in the refugee camp there—“like lambs to the slaughter”, according to a witness. What does this tell us about the nature of peacekeeping in Southern Sudan and of the UNMIS force itself? Are we intending to refer these crimes against humanity to the International Criminal Court, not least because of the thousands of people who are trapped in the Nuba mountains and suffering from aerial bombardment?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I can only repeat what I said earlier. The noble Lord very kindly sent me a copy of this report, as did a number of other people. As I have already said twice, it makes very grim reading. The noble Lord has rightly raised the quality and behaviour of existing UN troops a number of times. Of course we are worried that there was inadequate behaviour or that troops stood aside while people were dragged from their cars and shot, and so on. We have encouraged the Under-Secretary-General at the Department of Peacekeeping Operations to examine these claims very carefully and to bear them very strongly in mind when and—I regret to say—if a new mandate can be agreed and established for UN forces after independence, the original UNMIS mandate having finished. This is a very serious issue and one which we are watching very closely indeed.

Democratic Republic of Congo

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Monday 18th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I was aware of my noble friend’s recent visit to the DRC and I appreciate his concerns about the timing of the election. We reckon that the independent national electoral commission, to which he referred, CENI, is going reasonably well with its operations. Of course the timetable is tight, but we think that it is just realistic and that it is managing to get wider participation and better registration than some feared earlier. The Lord’s Resistance Army is a plague, as it were, a trouble which affects both the DRC and other countries in the region. Our aim is to get the African Union to support and work with MONUSCO, the UN force, in meeting this continuing threat. I fully recognise that it is a problem but if we can get the African Union fully engaged, as we are trying to, we believe that we can create the conditions in which the problem can be addressed effectively.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

The noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, was right to direct the Minister towards the depredations of the Lord’s Resistance Army, in a country where, after all, between 5 million and 6 million people have died in the last 25 years, mainly as a result of marauding militias. Has the Minister seen the report in today’s Telegraph online about Makombo, where 321 civilians died and 250 were abducted at the end of last year, and where 26 died and 53 were abducted in another raid on 6 July? Given that in 2005 the International Criminal Court issued indictments against Joseph Kony, the leader of the LRA, and two of his lieutenants, why has MONUSCO been so inadequate in gathering the necessary intelligence to bring these people to justice?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is quite right to deplore the endless slaughter and activities which are associated with the Lord’s Resistance Army. It seems to be a negative force both in this country and in many others. As I said earlier to my noble friend, it is our aim to get the African Union to work very closely with MONUSCO, the second largest UN mission in existence, in meeting this problem. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, asked me why it has not been so effective so far; I cannot answer that precisely, but I can only say that we are working extremely hard with other countries, with the EU and with our colleagues and allies, to reinforce the determination of MONUSCO and the African Union to meet the problem. This is the way forward that we think will be most effective.

Sudan: Framework Agreement

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in advance of Southern Sudan’s independence on 9 July, what is their assessment of the likely impact of the Framework Agreement signed at Addis Ababa on 28 June on securing peace and security in the region.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we fully support the ongoing discussions in Addis Ababa led by President Mbeki. We assess that for it to secure peace and security in the region, the framework agreement must be used by both sides as a basis for the immediate cessation of hostilities.

We continue to urge north and south to negotiate to resolve all outstanding comprehensive peace agreement issues.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Does he accept that for any of us who travelled in Southern Sudan during the war there, when some 2 million people died and 4 million others were displaced, any celebration of Southern Sudan’s landmark independence this coming weekend is tempered by these terrible atrocities which have been committed in recent days on the basis of ethnicity and political affiliation, and by the dire failure of the ceasefire to stop the violence or displacements?

As the comprehensive peace agreement expires this weekend, and given the United Kingdom’s role as guarantor and as one of the brokers of that agreement, will the Minister say whether we have raised, in the UN Security Council, the importance of sustaining, rather than withdrawing, a continuing UN peacekeeping presence in the area, and the importance of a robust Chapter 6 mandate? Will the Minister also comment on the bleak warning given by the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury last weekend that he could see another Darfur beginning to unfold in southern Kordofan, Abyei, and the areas to which I have alluded?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Naturally, on the last point, we hope that this warning, which no doubt is justified by the long history of atrocities, is not fulfilled. As to the noble Lord’s question on the comprehensive peace agreement, in theory it ends on 9 July with the independence of Southern Sudan, but it has been recognised that key issues are yet to be resolved and must be talked about.

As for our role with the United Nations, the UN Security Council, as the noble Lord knows, has extended the remit of UNMIS until 9 July and has signalled that it wants the remit to continue beyond then despite the continued strong opposition of Khartoum, which says that UNMIS must remove itself. As well as that, United Nations Security Council Resolution 1990 empowers the Ethiopians to move into Abyei. They are on their way, although they have not yet arrived. Those are the activities of the United Nations and we continue to play a full and central part in them.

Egypt: Religious Minorities

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 23rd June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, the answer to the right reverend Prelate’s question is positively and continuously. I know that he appreciates, because he follows these things closely, that we are dealing with a constantly changing situation. We are in constant dialogue through our posts, and indeed through Ministers and officials, with the Supreme Council in Cairo and with Governments in other countries where there are clear discrimination and attacks against religious minorities, including Christian minorities. I think that I have to tell him that the work of the panel and the continuing work of the Foreign Office are moving in the same direction, which is a positive one.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, in declaring an interest as president of the UK Coptic Association, may I ask the Minister whether he recalls the letter that I sent him on 1 January this year, copied to the Foreign Secretary, detailing the attacks made on services at the Church of the Two Saints in Alexandria, in which some 21 people were killed and 79 injured, even predating the Arab spring? Is it not the case that the campaign of asphyxiation against the ancient churches throughout the whole of the Middle East is something that we need to give much more focus to? We should never miss the opportunity, when pointing the finger at organisations such as the Salafis for fomenting this hatred and violence, to enunciate our support for the creation of a plural society where minorities such as the Copts, who constitute an eighth of Egypt’s population, are properly respected.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I would not disagree with a word of that. I remind your Lordships that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, is second to none in keeping us up to speed with what is happening on this whole front. When he asked me whether I could recall a letter that he wrote on 1 January, I have to be quite frank and say that I recall a mass of letters that have arrived from him almost every day of the week since then. I ask him please to go on writing and reminding us all that this is a very frightening and terrible situation to which we must, both at the governmental and the individual level, give our full attention.

Pakistan: Religious Minorities

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Wednesday 22nd June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what advocacy the Foreign Office is undertaking on behalf of persecuted religious minorities in Pakistan.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we engage regularly with the authorities in Pakistan on issues of religious freedom. Most recently, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, my honourable friend Mr Burt, discussed religious freedom with the newly appointed Pakistan Prime Minister’s Advisor on Interfaith Harmony and Minority Affairs. He also met religious leaders from across Pakistan as part of the Ministry’s Interfaith Council. Ministers and our High Commission in Islamabad will continue to maintain regular contact.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. However, what does the abject failure of the authorities in Pakistan to bring to justice those who were responsible for the brutal murder of Salman Taseer, the Governor of Punjab, and of Shahbaz Bhatti, the courageous Minister for Minorities, say about their commitment to uphold the rule of law and to protect minorities? Is not impunity for murder, forced conversion, rape, forced marriage, the denial of civil rights and the failure to protect Ahmadis, Sufis, Shias, Christians, Hindus and others directly linked to the rise of the Taliban in Pakistan? Does it not point to the crucial importance of returning to the original vision of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, who insisted on upholding the rights of minorities, saying that they should have a full place in Pakistan society?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, the noble Lord has set out a grim and very telling catalogue. The events he has described are appalling, particularly the recent murders and the apparent support by some members of the public in Pakistan for those who may even have carried out these atrocities. These are very worrying matters that we raise again and again with our friends and the authorities in Pakistan. We see Pakistan as a country to which we are bound by longstanding ties, but also a country where we must put forward our values in a strong and effective way. I have to say to the noble Lord that no one can be happy about this pattern of affairs, or with the advance in extremism around the country, no doubt encouraged by apparent aspects of impunity. All these matters are constantly in our minds and constantly in the way that we are developing our relationship with Pakistan, a great nation that needs certain help and support at this difficult time.

EU: Transfer of Iranian Refugees

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 19th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne]

My Lords—

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

Did the Minister have the chance to see the speech made by the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, in the European Parliament on 10 May, where she reiterated the duty to protect which the noble Lord, Lord Corbett, referred to a few moments ago? The noble Lord asked the Minister about the role of the United Nations and the declared doctrine of the duty to protect. Given that, in April, 35 people were killed and 350 were injured, is this merely an internal question for the sovereign Government of Iraq or is it not something that the international community has a duty to be involved in?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

It is a matter that should and does concern us all. I am very glad that the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, has now agreed to take the Ashraf issue on to the agenda at the next European Union Foreign Affairs Council on 23 May. We are moving in that direction.

Somalia

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Monday 21st March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I will look into the question of publishing a map, but, as far as progress in upgrading the strength of AMISOM is concerned, I am informed that the first 1,000 additional troops, provided by Burundi, were deployed early this month. The remaining troops are being provided by Uganda and are expected to deploy before the summer. As for the substantial gains, AMISOM carried out an offensive in Mogadishu from 19 February to 6 March, during which it was able to secure new ground, including vital areas around Bakara market. We are aware of other fighting between TFG-aligned militias and al-Shabaab elsewhere in the country, including in and around Bulo Hawo.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, have we not dangerously underestimated the reach and influence of al-Shabaab, not only in terrorising the people of Somalia but also in claiming responsibility for the deaths last year of 74 innocent people in Uganda? Should we not be doing more to highlight the depredations of al-Shabaab, which include the killing of Sufi and moderate Muslims, public executions, amputations, public flogging and stoning of women, the routine killing of journalists and the recruiting of child soldiers, some of whom have been responsible for some of the murders that I have mentioned? This has inevitably led to a large number of refugees leaving the country. What can the Minister tell us about the plight of those refugees, the human rights abuses and the export of al-Shabaab’s terror?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I can certainly confirm that, as the noble Lord said, al-Shabaab is a vicious and dangerous group which has been responsible for numerous terrorist attacks in Somalia and the killing of soldiers, AMISOM troops, innocent civilians and parliamentarians, and which shows no regard for human life. The noble Lord asked what we could do. Her Majesty's Government have a Somalia strategy which they are pursuing. We are working with the AU, the EU and other allied forces and we are doing everything we can to establish a political strategy for the area. It is called a “dual-track” strategy, whose objective is to encourage both the transitional Government, provided that they commit to the right degree of reforms, and the bottom-up development of responsible and constructive groups who can oppose these very unpleasant people. They are a real danger, and the noble Lord is absolutely right to draw attention to their vicious and unacceptable activities.

Sudan

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Monday 7th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

These are matters that have not yet been settled. As I said just now, there are a number of practical issues that have to be worked out. I cannot give the noble Baroness the precise detail of where the financial discussions have got to, but obviously, in as far as we are affected in the way that she described, we shall have to work out the best and fairest arrangement between the two countries. We think that these things can be done, but we have certainly not got to the point of solution yet.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, I welcome the historic announcement that has been delivered from the Dispatch Box today. However, will the Minister touch again on the situation in Abyei to which he referred a moment ago, and on the Foreign Secretary’s recent statement reflecting on the violence between the Misseriya tribesmen and the Sudan People’s Liberation Army and the massive influx of armaments and weapons into that area? Does he agree that a reduction in the armaments levels and the removal of the militias from those areas is perhaps a prerequisite for a lasting peace? Can he also tell us something about the architecture which will be put in place to bring about the right of self-determination of the people of Abyei, who have been excluded from the comprehensive peace agreement and from the referendum?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I cannot offer the noble Lord an immediate pattern of solution to the situation. As he knows well, and as your Lordships will know, there has been no referendum in that area. There has been a demand for the people of that area to have a say. There are some quite substantial implications in terms of oil resources in the area—about 10 per cent of the oil resources of Sudan as a whole. I can only repeat what I said earlier. We will work very closely with the UN to see that consultations within the framework of the CPA are pushed forward and that the wishes and rights of the people of this region, like those of the other regions I mentioned, are fully respected.

Religions for Peace

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 1st February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Again, these are movements and inspirations that best come from beneath, as it were—from the bottom up rather than being imposed by government organisation. In a sense, my noble friend is referring to organisations very similar to Religions for Peace, with which this Question is concerned; that is, the desire for the faiths to come together and bring their message of peace to every corner of the world and to every religion and practice throughout the planet. That is exactly what Religions for Peace has done so successfully for many years past.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, what resources are available within the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to champion the issue of religious liberties? In these turbulent times, is the Minister able to give some thought to the plight of the imprisoned Baha’is in Iran; the minorities in the ancient churches, the Chaldeans and Syrianis in Iraq, who have been facing a campaign of asphyxiation; and the Coptic community in Egypt, especially at present following the terrible attacks launched in Alexandria only a couple of weeks ago?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is quite right to begin the catalogue—sadly, it goes on even further than he mentioned—of the persecution of religious minorities. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Her Majesty’s Government are determined, wherever we see such persecution, to make the strongest representations through our posts. The noble Lord mentioned three instances of hideous persecution and I have a list in front of me of four or five more areas of the world where there is direct persecution of religious minorities of a highly intolerant kind. In every instance, personnel in our posts and in the Foreign Office here in London continuously and vigorously pursue our concerns, suggestions and proposals that this intolerance should cease forthwith.

Iraq: Camp Ashraf

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 25th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We have made, and indeed are making all the time, representations through our work with the United Nations and we are also planning another direct meeting with Iraqi government officials. I know the noble Lord appreciates that this is Iraqi government sovereign territory and therefore we have to make our approaches, apply our pressure and express our concerns, which he expresses so well, through the Iraqi Government. As to the United Nations, it has taken certain views about withdrawing the regular monitoring operation it had when the United States and the allied forces were there. Now that they have withdrawn it makes fairly systematic and regular visits but it is not at the moment ready to return to a monitoring system. That is the current position but I would be the first to agree with the noble Lord that it is far from satisfactory.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

I am grateful to the House and to the noble Baroness. Has the Minister had the chance to study the decision of the Spanish authorities to bring before the Spanish courts on 8 March some of the officials of the Iraqi Government because of the violations of human rights which have occurred at Camp Ashraf, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Corbett of Castle Vale? Given that this is in breach of Article 4 of the Geneva Convention—it is on that basis that those officials are being brought before the Spanish courts—why are other members of the international community, other members of NATO and the European Union not taking the same position as the Spanish authorities?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I have not had the chance to study in detail the Spanish decisions. As to Article 4 of the Geneva Convention, there is a difference of view on that. As I think he knows well, the advice we have been given is that the people at Camp Ashraf are not protected under the fourth Geneva convention and therefore cannot be put in that category. There is a difference of view there but I will certainly draw to the attention of my colleagues the procedures of the Spanish Government and see if we can learn something from them.

North Korea

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 25th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I remind the House of my non-financial interest as the chairman of the British-North Korea All-Party Parliamentary Group.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said yesterday, this was a completely unprovoked attack by North Korea on South Korean troops and civilians, which will lead only to further tensions on the Korean peninsula. Such belligerence by North Korea increases its international isolation. The North Korean regime has again demonstrated callous disregard for human life, for international law, and for its own interests. The Prime Minister spoke yesterday to the UN Secretary-General and to President Lee Myung-bak, about the need for the most effective possible international response.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. Is not this provocative and calculated act, the 150th breach of the armistice since 1958, a sobering reminder—along with the revelation at the weekend of an industrial complex for the enrichment of uranium—of the central importance of engaging China in finding a way forward? Otherwise, are we not likely to face a catastrophic conflict of the order of the one that occurred 60 years ago, when nearly 3 million people died on the Korean peninsula? Has the Minister had the opportunity to reflect on the recommendations in the report which I sent him following the visit to Korea by myself and my noble friend Lady Cox last month, especially on the importance of encouraging China to broker direct talks between North and South Korea with a view to concluding the war? There is neither war nor peace, merely a shaky armistice. Until the war is concluded, it is unlikely that progress on the six-party talks, which have now fallen by the wayside, on human rights or on any other question is likely to occur.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I think the noble Lord already knows that I have read his excellent report, which is a very useful contribution to putting the situation in perspective. Of course, China is in many ways the key to this. They are the ones who will have to decide how to act responsibly in relation to their troublesome neighbour and protégé. We believe that the main thrust is to get the six-party talks going again. They have faltered but they are the right way forward and we will do everything we can to assure, first, that there is the strongest possible response to this latest outrage and, secondly, that the six-party talks are started again so that we can begin to bring some sense to the actions of this unpredictable, erratic and dangerous regime.

Burma

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 18th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Most definitely yes to all those observations. We salute not only this remarkable lady and her husband, but the way in which she now comments on what must have been the appalling experience of her imprisonment over the years. As she rightly says in a remarkable interview in the Times today, revolution takes place in the mind, and her mind is a wonderful mind to be playing on this situation.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, if, after 15 years and 20 days, Aung San Suu Kyi’s release is to be a Mandela moment for Burma, will it not require the ethnic minorities and the National League for Democracy to enter into real dialogue and reconciliation with the military junta? Will it not require their reciprocity, and must we not do all we can, through the United Nations, engaging the Secretary-General directly in these negotiations, to bring that about? Can the Minister say something more about the ethnic minorities and their plight, given the information I gave him last week and the subsequent letter about the fighting in the Karen state and now the repatriation of those refugees across the border into an area where fighting is still under way?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

On the last point of the noble Lord, who follows these things very closely, we are worried about what has been happening on the border and the signs that the Royal Thai Government may have been returning refugees across the border back into Burma, or Myanmar. Our ambassador spoke to the Foreign Minister of Thailand this morning about the need to look at this situation and prevent undue suffering where these refugee pressures have been building up. As to the broader question of ethnic groups, we continually condemn the human rights abuses that ethnic groups continue to suffer. Our embassy in Rangoon regularly makes representations; we think that the elections were a missed opportunity to unite armed and non-armed ethnic groups, but I am afraid that we have to strike a pessimistic note in saying that there is little prospect of national reconciliation without their involvement and not much prospect while the generals are in charge. However, we will keep this matter very much to the fore, properly urged on by the noble Lord’s remarkably persistent concern.

Burma: Elections

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 11th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend is right: merely releasing Aung San Suu Kyi from her detention is only part of the story and certainly not a full response. There is a need for far greater pressure on Burma to begin to return itself to democracy. The EU has a tough sanctions policy, as my noble friend knows. We all have an agreed EU position on Burma, which the British Government are entirely consistent with and support. As to the policy at the UN, the position is as I described to the noble Baroness. It is a question of building the consensus and getting the timing right so that we and our EU colleagues can press ahead successfully and get full support for a commission of inquiry. It is no good if we rush in and find that we cannot get adequate support for it.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, on this day will the Minister recall that, in the Second World War, principal among the quarter of a million Burmese who fought alongside us or supported us as civilians were the Karen people, whom Lord Mountbatten of Burma described as our bravest allies? Will he also recall that, following what he has called sham elections, 30,000 Karen people have fled from the new upsurge of violence described by my noble friend in her question to the refugee camps along the border, where there are also 150,000 refugees? What aid and support can we give to these, our forgotten allies?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is right. I have a slightly smaller figure of 20,000 but, really, who cares? Thousands upon thousands of desperate people have fled across the Thai-Burma border to escape clashes between troops and the ethnic Karen rebels. We are deeply concerned about the reports of this fighting, which serves only to underline the fact that flawed elections will not create the national reconciliation that noble Lords have rightly urged and called for. As to assistance for refugees, I will have to write in detail to the noble Lord. We are looking at it and thinking about the possible focusing of additional assistance, but I will supply the precise details in a letter.

India: Commonwealth Games

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 9th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I certainly recognise the validity of the noble Lord’s introduction of the Commonwealth into this issue, and I think that the Commonwealth has a very valuable role to play. However, I am not so sure whether it is a question of drawing it to the attention of the Secretary-General and the Heads of Government Meeting or of drawing it to the attention of the Eminent Persons Group which is now looking at ways in which the Commonwealth monitoring and policing of human rights generally can be greatly upgraded. I suspect, on reflection, that it might be best to put it before the EPG. Either way, the concern of the Commonwealth in upholding, monitoring and strengthening human rights through all its member states, including the world power which India is, is very important indeed.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, would the Minister agree with Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister of India, who has said that the caste system is a blot on humanity? Is it not the case that the way to end things such as manual scavenging, which has rightly been referred to, is by the promotion of education for Dalit people? Can the Minister say what access to education is being given to the Dalit people, especially in areas such as information technology, as a result of support being given by Her Majesty's Government?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am not sure I can say what has followed as a result of intervention by Her Majesty's Government, but one has to bear in mind that India is a sovereign, great and respected nation. Indeed, as I said just now, it is a world power. We must leave it to the Indian authorities to recognise pressures from outside, which certainly include pressures from us, and to respond accordingly. Generally, our high commissioner is in constant contact on these matters. The concerns of this House and the other place are constantly placed before our Indian friends, but in the end, we are friends, not lecturers, and we must have a good relationship with this great nation that is emerging as a major force in the world.

Korean Peninsula

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Wednesday 28th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I remind the House of my non-pecuniary interest as chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on North Korea.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we speak with China regularly concerning security on the Korean peninsula. The Foreign Secretary last raised this with Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi and State Councillor Dai Bingguo during his visit to China on 14 July. The UN Presidential Statement on the sinking of the vessel “Cheonan” was agreed with China and it conveys a clear message to North Korea that it cannot act with impunity.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

I thank the Minister for that reply. Does he agree that in the aftermath of the deplorable sinking of the “Cheonan”, with the shocking loss of 46 lives, the sort of display of military might that we are seeing this week by South Korea and the United States in their manoeuvres was inevitable, along with the imposition of sanctions? Does he also agree that the Cold War demonstrated that intelligent engagement was equally important, and so it is crucial to keep China engaged in drawing North Korea back into the six-party talks and working for the objective of the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula?

International Criminal Court

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Thursday 22nd July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I do not quite agree with the implication of the noble and learned Lord’s question although obviously I agree with him about the importance of the issue; it is a very complex question which was discussed in considerable detail at Kampala. The UK has a principled position: that the UN Security Council has primary responsibility for dealing with aggression. We maintain that that is right. If in the discussion the complexities of developing a further definition can be overcome, then the general purpose—all are agreed —is the right one. However, there are some obvious complexities here that need resolving. They are not in any way against carrying forward the concern with crimes of aggression; the only question is the technique and method by which that should be done.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, can the Minister confirm that an International Criminal Court arrest warrant still is outstanding against Joseph Kony, the leader of the Lord’s Resistance Army? The LRA has been responsible for some of the worst violations against women, such as those described by my noble friend Lady Stern a few moments ago, especially in the Democratic Republic of Congo and in Uganda, where it is estimated that the LRA has killed over 1 million people. Will he confirm that a letter was received by the Prime Minister only a week ago from a young woman called Juliet, who is here in London and who was herself raped by the LRA when she was just 12 years old?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, always speaks with authority and knowledge on these issues. It is significant that this meeting was held in Kampala, and of course it is in Uganda that these arrest warrants are currently out for a number of people. It is also where some particularly horrific crimes appear to have occurred, including crimes against women, about which we were talking a moment ago. That is the position and I can only reaffirm what the noble Lord has said: this is a good example of where the ICC really can carry forward the causes of peace and justice together in what we hope is an effective way.

BBC World Service

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 13th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, I share the right reverend Prelate’s disappointment. Although this is strictly a matter for the editorial decision of the BBC World Service and has nothing to do with government guidance, I share his view and hope that some changes may be possible. However, that is a personal view.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, one of the lessons that we should learn from the Cold War is that benighted people living in beleaguered lands were often told the truth as a result of BBC World Service transmissions. Particularly in this day and age, against the hubbub of internet transmissions often made by extremist organisations with their partisan agendas, is it not more important than ever to do as the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, said and maintain our maximum support for the BBC World Service?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

It certainly is. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, is absolutely right and I emphasise that the overall budget still allocated is substantial, has risen substantially over the years, and amounts to more than 20 per cent—possibly almost 25 per cent—of the total budget of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. We are talking about very large sums of money backing the BBC World Service, not small sums.

Commonwealth Games: Delhi

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Monday 28th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The latter.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, before the Minister finishes on this Question, will he return to the point that my noble and right reverend friend made about the impact on the poorest people in India? Can he say a word more about the effect on the scheduled classes, to whom he referred, and particularly on the Dalits, and whether this will be seen as an opportunity to draw people from those underclasses—the untouchables—in India into the wider civic life of the nation?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, is right to say that this should be seen as an opportunity and I hope very much that it will be. I mentioned the Indian Government’s major slum clearance programmes, which must be going in the right direction. I believe that, far from being a disadvantage for those sorts of programmes, projects such as the Commonwealth Games can be a positive opportunity for, as the noble Lord said, drawing minorities and ethnic groups more effectively into proper civil life and the civic stream in India. We have full confidence that that can be achieved.

Immigration: Deportation of Iraqis

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Tuesday 22nd June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. I am advised that the UK Border Agency’s professional standards unit is investigating what occurred on these occasions. There is no evidence of mistreatment: indeed, senior UK Border Agency officials were on the flight and saw everything that happened. We are satisfied that the position is being investigated and we believe that we should continue with both voluntary and enforced returns of those for whom no further protection is needed here.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, will the Minister accept that members of religious minority groups such as the Chaldeans and the Yazidis who have been sent back to Iraq have faced assassination and kidnappings? Will he explain to the House what motivated his department to set to one side the evidence of the UNHCR and its statement, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, that at present it is not safe to return such people to Iraq?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

There is a disagreement over this because the procedure we have employed is to study individuals case by case, each on its merits. We take extreme care to ensure that no mistreatment occurs—or if it does occur it is investigated. The UNHCR is starting from a different viewpoint: it is looking at the overall return of Iraqis from all over Europe, including from this country. It is looking at some of the central regions of Iraq, which are extremely dangerous. Most of our returnees go to Kurdistan where they are safe. Therefore, we are satisfied that it is safe for those who are here illegally, or are failed asylum seekers, or are convicted criminals, to be returned to the country from which they come.

Korean Peninsula: “Cheonan”

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Alton of Liverpool

Wednesday 2nd June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and, in so doing, I declare a non-pecuniary interest as chairman of the All-Party Group on North Korea.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we are concerned about the situation on the Korean peninsula following the sinking of the “Cheonan” vessel. The Government are in no doubt that North Korea was responsible for this callous and unacceptable act. The Prime Minister has expressed his sympathy to President Lee for the loss of life. We urge North Korea to acknowledge responsibility and to avoid escalating tensions further. We understand that South Korea will request that the UN Security Council looks at this issue next week and we are working with South Korea and other international partners to ensure the strongest possible response with a UN Security Council consensus.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, on this, his first appearance at Question Time as the Minister dealing with international and foreign affairs, and in the light of the huge contribution that he made during his time in opposition, I am sure that the whole House will want to welcome the noble Lord to his onerous duties and responsibilities.

When this matter comes before the Security Council next week, will we be pressing for a commission of inquiry or a referral to the International Criminal Court on these events, which led to the deaths of 46 people following the sinking of the “Cheonan”? Are we also engaging with the Government of China? That is crucial if we are to make progress on this matter.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I thank the noble Lord for his kind remarks. He is second to none in his expertise on North Korea and in his concern for human rights there. The problem with a commission is simply that China will not go along with it, so we would never get unity among the permanent five. Also, North Korea is not a signatory to the ICC. Although we want strong action, we want to try to keep the permanent five together and to get some kind of statement or resolution that will really have an effect and make an impact.