Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Would my noble friend accept that when it comes to the ambitious new trade agreement which this document outlines—which is a very welcome and promising prospect—after 46 years of our two systems growing together and becoming entangled, the process of disentanglement, unwinding and building the new opportunities is bound to take considerable time? Would she accept that some of the impatient demands for more rapid solutions are quite inadequate in dealing with that situation? It has been said that the withdrawal agreement is a halfway house. Would she agree that if we can be allowed to get to that halfway house, this does indeed show the path that opens to the completion of our situation, which will be very much stronger than we have today? Could she explain why, when it comes to the international trade negotiations, this document just has a mention that this can be developed, whereas the withdrawal agreement is much more specific and talks about negotiating, signing and ratifying agreements which will come into force as soon the transition is over? Would she just reassure us that that, too, is part of the prospect in the future, which on the whole is greatly to be welcomed?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. I can certainly reassure him that the withdrawal agreement includes a legally binding commitment that ensures that both sides will use best endeavours to negotiate the detailed agreements he was talking about that will give effect to the future relationship, so that they can come into force by the end of 2020. We are obviously extremely pleased that the political document makes it very clear that whatever is agreed in relation to our future partnership with the EU must recognise the development of an independent UK trade policy, and of course during the implementation period we will be able to sign, negotiate and ratify our own trade agreements.

Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 15th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, we will now be able to talk about moving on to our future relationship, which will bring back exactly the kinds of powers and develop exactly the kind of relationship that the noble Lord is talking about. The withdrawal treaty is about leaving the EU; we can now look forward, having agreed that, to an excellent future relationship together.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, paragraph 4 of Article 129 of the withdrawal agreement makes the future arrangements for this country crystal clear. It says that,

“during the transition period, the United Kingdom may negotiate, sign and ratify international agreements entered into in its own capacity”.

That makes it very clear where the future lies, and perhaps contradicts what was said earlier. As the Labour Opposition Front Bench here in the Lords is so vastly superior to the Labour Opposition Front Bench in the other place, does my noble friend think that it might, on the day, support the withdrawal agreement or at least abstain?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is absolutely right that, under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, the UK will be free to negotiate, sign and ratify FTAs during the implementation period and to bring them into force from January 2021. I have no doubt that we will have many useful discussions in this House about the future relationship with the EU, and I look forward to them.

October European Council

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I remind noble Lords that we do not intend to use either the backstop option or the implementation period extension. These are insurance policies. We are committed to achieving, and we expect to achieve, our new relationship with the EU by the beginning of January 2021. These are insurance policies, not things we intend to happen. The reason we are confident about achieving a good deal with the EU is that we are in the unique position of starting with the same rules and being in the same place: we are not coming from different situations, as was the case in other deals the EU put together. That is why we are confident, starting from being together, that we can come up with a good deal going forward that works for both of us.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, as we pray in this House each day for the tranquillity of the realm, would it be worth sending a message to our more excitable and rather impatient Brexiteers, reminding them that it took 10 to 15 years for us to join the European Community, as it was then? We have been working together in a system with them for 46 years and therefore it is pretty likely that it will take a number of years for us to untangle all the arrangements we have made and withdraw in an orderly and sensible way. Is not the word that we really need, and which is missing in a great deal of this discussion at the moment, patience: an understanding that these things, if done properly, need to be handled very carefully and with great patience?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend and I entirely agree. I am sure that any of us would be grateful for his prayers to support us.

NATO Brussels Summit 2018

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord was not in the Chamber to hear the Statement, so should really not participate.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, in future we probably all need to spend a lot more on defence and security in the wider sense, not just on military equipment. Has my noble friend noticed that, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, America spends $31 billion a year of its total defence budget of $680 billion—about 5%—on European defence? Has she also noticed that America pays into NATO’s direct expenses common funding budget about 22%? Does she agree that those figures are miles away from those of 70% and 90% that the President talked about in Brussels? He understands hard facts and believes in strong dealing. Will she make sure that he is in this case presented with the hard facts—in the friendliest possible way, of course?

Death of a Member: Lord Carrington

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Baker of Dorking (Con)]

My Lords, could I say two personal things about Peter? In Ted Heath’s Government, he was the most senior Minister and I was the most junior—so junior that I was often left off the list. But I did occasionally attend meetings with him, and the thing that I discovered, his great talent, was that he read his briefs with his fingertips. On any issue, he instinctively knew what the main issues were and what could and could not be done. That is a very rare gift among politicians, and it was why Ted depended on his judgment so much.

The one job that Ted gave him that he did not like was chairman of the Conservative Party, as has been said by my noble friend Lord Patten. He came to speak for me in a by-election when I was fighting for the constituency of St Marylebone, and he made the speech that chairmen have to make: “The candidate is brilliant, and the Government are the most successful for a decade or so”—both debatable. He was glad that it was all over and finished so that he could go and have a drink in the pub with the people next door.

He was never a propagandist for the Tories. I believe that he said once to the deputy chairman of the Conservative Party, who is sitting next to me, who was then called John Selwyn Gummer, “I don’t really like Conservatives”. None the less, he had Conservative instincts. He was not in the Thatcher Government for very long, because he resigned, but we were attending a Cabinet committee attended by the chairman of the coal board, Lord Marshall, who was going on and on. The noble Lord was quite right to say that Lord Carrington wrote very good limericks; he had a gift for poetry doggerel. The limerick ran:

“The noble Lord Marshall of Goring


Is frightfully, frightfully boring,

And when we come

To 20 to one

I think I’ll hear sounds of snoring”.

That shows the human nature of Peter. He need not have gone into politics. He was gifted in diplomacy, defence and business. We were very lucky to have him in the political world. He was a great public figure.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, as the last Member here who was his fellow member of the 1979 Cabinet of Margaret Thatcher, I also want to say a word because he was a wonderful friend. I previously served under him when he was Secretary of State for Energy in the rather fraught conditions of the early 1970s and continued to work with him in the Cabinet of Mrs Thatcher in the equally fraught conditions of the late 1970s. He was a moderating influence. It is often said that Willie Whitelaw was the great moderating influence but, in fact, Peter Carrington was also a calming force in a frankly rather raucous and not very calm atmosphere in that Cabinet.

The Prime Minister was of course very frank and open and sometimes rather brutal with her colleagues, and she would begin a conversation by saying, “Foreign Secretary, I hear you’ve been suborned by your civil servants again in the Foreign Office—what a pity”, to which he would answer quite calmly, “Prime Minister I’m not sure that’s entirely fair”. I would not have been so calm, but that was how he controlled the otherwise difficult atmosphere in the Cabinet.

There has been no mention in the tributes, but after doing all those other things he went off to the west Balkans, I think as a representative of the United Nations to try to untangle some of the atmosphere there. He came back not embittered but quite convinced that most of the leaders in that region were on the verge of madness and certainly not people to be easily dealt with. But he was very realistic—he had some rather stronger words about them, which I do not intend to repeat here.

Finally, in his very later years, when I shared an office with him here, he had views about all the leaders of all the political parties. I am afraid that he did not have a very nice word for any of us. He thought that things had gone distinctly off the rails. But this was a lovely man who performed a vast service and was a great pleasure and amusement to be with. Of course, we will all miss him dearly.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

My Lords, I worked for Lord Carrington when I was very young, and it was really rather frightening. Here was I entering the Conservative Central Office, and there was this very distinguished man. I only want to say that he was immensely kind. That is the one thing that no one else has said. Throughout his life—and I knew him throughout his life, and lunched with him not very long ago—he was always kind to young people. He encouraged them, and you never felt other than that you were dealing with someone who cared about you. That is a truly remarkable quality in anyone, but in someone of such quality it is almost unique, and I would not like this House to complete its tributes without remembering his kindness.

Exiting the EU

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I completely disagree with everything that the noble Baroness has just said.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I believe that the Prime Minister’s Chequers plan is actually moving in entirely the right and sensible direction. I particularly welcome the suggestion of an accession to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, because that is where all the great growth in consumer markets over the next 10 years is going to be. But does the Leader agree that it is perhaps time to point out to the two extreme wings and polarised views on this whole debate, first, that on the other side of the Channel in the EU things are changing very quickly indeed—there are convulsions going on, borders are being closed and an entirely new pattern is emerging, much more in line with the ideas of some of us about reforming the European Union generally—and, secondly, that in some ways it took us 20 years to work out how to enter the European Union in the first place and it is bound to take at least five years to get out, and a little more patience in politics is often rather useful?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. As I have said, this is a comprehensive and detailed plan and we are looking forward to negotiating with the EU. We do need to move at pace. Following Chequers, the Prime Minister has called a number of European leaders to take them through the plan. We are looking forward to negotiating our relationship. Those she spoke to, including Donald Tusk, Jean-Claude Juncker and the Prime Ministers of Sweden, Malta and Ireland, welcomed the further clarity. Of course, we will be putting more information out on Thursday in the White Paper, and we will then be taking negotiations at pace in order to achieve a deal that works for both sides.

European Council

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 2nd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, contrary to the rather gloomy assessment that we have just heard from the noble Lord, Lord Newby, does my noble friend accept that it appears that the Prime Minister made very considerable progress on migration and defence and security? This is all the more remarkable when one needs to be aware, as I think some of your Lordships are not, of the enormous changes going on throughout continental Europe on these issues. The entire posture of the European Union in relation to freedom of movement, migration and immigration has changed radically and will do so again, while on security and defence we are in the midst of major changes, as will be seen at the NATO summit next week, when the challenge of President Trump will be one thing and the threat of Turkey to leave NATO altogether another. It seems that remarkable progress has been made in very difficult and fast-changing circumstances.

As to the specific issue of customs control and tariffs, again, I do not quite understand. The noble Lords opposite talked about time running out. This is a negotiation. Decisions and agreement come at the end of a negotiation. First, you have it, then you have the decisions and agreement. That is what we are moving to now. Frankly, I cannot quite understand what all the fuss is about from the Opposition Benches.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am very grateful for my noble friend’s support. I entirely agree with him.

European Council

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I think we will continue to have strong relationships because it is in all our interests. We work with our EU partners, with NATO and through the UN: we are involved in a whole array of international organisations. Other issues were discussed at the Council that have not yet been raised—our approach to Turkey and Afrin and issues around Cyprus, for example. We work with all our international partners in a whole range of areas. We bring a lot to the party, so do they, and we want to continue to do that. I see no reason why we cannot.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, may I just explain something to your Lordships about the Northern Ireland border and the customs union? I do not think it is very widely understood. Of course, I spent considerable time there. There is a border and there are enormous differences between the jurisdictions of the Republic and Northern Ireland. They extend to education, health services, minimum wages, aspects of labour laws, excise duties and personal taxation. All these things are different so there has to be a controlled border. Furthermore, at the moment only 4% of the goods coming into the EU through Britain are checked by the customs authorities—HMRC. In the case of the Republic, only 1% of goods coming from outside the EU are checked by the Republic. What I am saying is that this is a tiny problem. It is mostly concerned with animals and animal welfare; it can all be done by pre-checking and online arrangements. The idea that it should be built up into a major issue of challenges about the whole customs union is completely disassociated from the facts of the situation on the ground.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with my noble friend that there are obviously issues that we overcome now without a hard border and we want to continue to do that. We believe we can achieve a deep trading relationship between the EU and the UK that means specific measures in relation to Northern Ireland are not necessary. We have also been very clear that we will ensure that the specific circumstances of Northern Ireland are recognised. That is what we will be working on intensively over the next few weeks.

United Kingdom-European Union Future Economic Partnership

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that this Statement is a welcome blast of common sense into an otherwise madly polarised debate? Will she also accept that the principle of mutual recognition, which has been embedded in EU law for the last 25 years and was in fact a British invention, can allow a welcome degree of flexibility in any kind of alignment or regulation or the development of different regulatory arrangements? It applies to all members inside the EU and to everyone associated with it, and there is no reason why we should not apply the same principles of mutual recognition, as the Prime Minister is arguing. Lastly, does my noble friend accept that of course there are cherries to be picked, but sometimes it is better to pick the cherries than to leave them to rot on the bough?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for his comments. I entirely agree. It is important to remember that many regulatory standards are themselves underpinned by international standards set by non-EU bodies so we are certainly committed, and believe it is absolutely achievable, to ensuring that our relevant UK regulatory standards remain as high as the EU’s. As I have said, many of these standards are underpinned by international standards—for instance, the UN Economic Commission for Europe sets vehicle safety standards—set by organisations of which we will continue to be a part.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 31st January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, that was a speech of concentrated expertise, which I certainly will not try to follow. For those of us who seek to be in the reasonable middle of this very polarised debate, and who anyway believe we should have fought for serious and fundamental EU reform before rushing into bilateral negotiations of any kind, space is rather tight, narrow and limited. It is difficult to decide which side is the more unappetising: the extreme Europhiles who believe, in rather a quaint, old-fashioned way, that it is the UK’s destiny to remain totally tied into the obviously outdated EU integrationist model, fed by daily doses of gloom from the Financial Times, or the extreme Brexiteers in their nirvana of taking control and sovereign independence, regardless of the world’s colossal and growing interdependence and connectivity and their “dancing on a head of a pin” arguments about hard and soft Brexit.

What seems not to be very well understood is that the Bill is part of a vast and elaborate process, as my noble friend Lord Strathclyde said yesterday. It is one course in the long menu of taking powers back from the EU Commission after all these years, handing them first to the Government and then back to Parliament and the people. We are trying to transfer four decades of law, influenced by its Roman and Napoleonic code antecedents, into common law, the law of Britain and the Commonwealth. We are taking it, so to speak, from Napoleon via Henry VIII—neither of them exactly models of democracy—as much as we can to Parliament and the people.

I do not fully understand how the legal experts, whose voices we have heard, imagine that this colossal enterprise can all be done in one Bill plus a sheaf of amendments. I do not understand their ambition. This is going to be a task and a continuing struggle for years to come; in fact, in the age of popular empowerment it may well intensify. We will certainly need the sort of new instruments that the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, was talking about a few minutes ago. Yet we seem to hear impatient voices, and even some constitutional experts, calling for every course in the menu to be served and devoured at once—for every stage to be done and sorted.

We always want to see, and will have to fight for, a better balance of powers between the Executive and Parliament. However, as some in this House will remember, it took 20 years to get into the old EU—the European Community, as it was—and, frankly, it is bound to take quite a few years to disengage and correct the balance again. Meanwhile, we have a great army of lawyers, judges, academics and, I am afraid, some of your Lordships all calling for more legal certainty and more clarity for judges. Of course they would say that. We all want certainty, but a bit of patience would be welcome all round, as well as a little more reading of the works of Karl Popper. I would like to hear the word “gradual” coming from the legal authorities a bit more often. What is the phrase? “A broadening down from precedent to precedent”—is that not the tradition on which we have been educated over hundreds of years? Businessmen are always calling for more certainty but I have to say that there has always been uncertainty and always will be. The judges will just have to do their best, as I am sure they always do.

As for the idea that we transfer back into British law the whole EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, memories seem to be pitifully short here. Do your Lordships not recall how, in our long debates on the Lisbon treaty, we showed up clearly all of the charter’s inadequacies? I can remember a decade ago standing at the Dispatch Box night after night trying—and obviously failing—to explain some of the sillinesses in this overloaded document, which is far inferior to our own protection of rights and our own commitments to the human rights of the citizens of this nation. Excitable legal experts seem to have forgotten all of that.

The case for the old 20th century EU integrated bloc idea grows weaker every day and the case for a new, more flexible and intelligent kind of European co-operation and co-ordination, in the completely transformed digital and big data age we are now in, grows stronger. Nothing is static. Patterns and networks of trade are being revolutionised even while we speak. The Bill is just one stage in preparing us for these totally transformed conditions and the sooner that we allow it through, modestly improved, the better for all.