National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Lord Hope of Craighead Excerpts

3rd reading
Tuesday 4th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)]

My Lords, I added my name to this amendment for the reasons the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace, has given. It is, obviously, quite important to bring the Scottish position into line with the rest of the United Kingdom.

It also gives me an opportunity to make two points that I ask the Minister to bear in mind. The first is the extent to which the public services in Scotland are dependent on the third sector. They depend to a major extent on the work done by charities and other third sector organisations. There is, of course, an imbalance between the way in which public sectors react to the changes in the Bill and the third sector is left with very little support at the moment to enable it to do that. Perhaps the Minister might bear in mind, as time goes on, that it is necessary to keep an eye on the extent to which the Bill has that deleterious effect.

There are other ways—I know the Minister understands this—in which these bodies can be assisted. It may be, if the position is as people are saying and they will be so disadvantaged, that the Government might be able to support them in some way to enable them to continue to provide their vital support. In the end, the people who suffer are not those who provide the services but those for whom the services are provided, for which the public services in Scotland are not fully equipped.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, let me say to the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, that I take full responsibility for the misdrafting of the original amendment, and for not being sensitive to the legal differences between Scotland and other parts of the United Kingdom. I thank my noble and learned friend Lord Wallace of Tankerness and the others who have supported him, and those in Scotland who were so concerned about what might happen to the care services there that they wanted to make sure that the language was reasonably perfected.

I am delighted to accept that amendment, but I am also very grateful that people came forward. It is good to know that we are sending something to the other place that is not holed beneath the waterline; I appreciate that. I also appreciate the vote that came in this House, which is not disrupted at all by this amendment, as people were very clear that they intended it to apply to Scotland as well as to the rest of the United Kingdom.

I hope that I will be in a position to thank the Government for accepting this tidying-up amendment, understanding the spirit both in which it was offered and in which the previous debate took place.

National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Lord Hope of Craighead Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st January 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)]

My Lords, I would like to give one example from the social care sector which concerns this group of amendments. Cyrenians is a charity in the south-east of Scotland that supports people suffering from homelessness. It is a very active charity, with over 60 services, employing more than 200 staff and providing vital support to people who are at risk of homelessness or are suffering from it. It calculates that the effect of these changes will cost it approximately £170,000 a year, which is a very substantial amount, considering that it depends on charity to support the services it runs. As a result of this, it will have to diminish the training and development of the staff it employs, which in turn will have an adverse impact on the quality of the service that it provides to the people in need of it.

This unintended consequence is an example of the severe effect on an individual charity of this kind in the third sector in Scotland that is providing vital help to people facing homelessness. I need not add that homelessness is an emergency in Scotland and is recognised as such by the Scottish Government, so anything that diminishes the support that is given to people facing homelessness is a matter of grave concern. I do not expect that the Government will accept these amendments, but I ask them to consider carefully whether it is necessary for charities of this kind to suffer that kind of consequence. It is not so much the charity that will suffer but people who are homeless or at risk of homelessness.