House of Lords: Question Time

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 7th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree very much with my noble friend that brief questions are to be encouraged: brief questions tend to elicit brief answers. I think that it is incumbent on everyone in the House to make sure that they understand the rules set out in the Companion. I think that over time behaviour sometimes slips. This is a good opportunity to remind ourselves of those principles to which we all say, “Hear, hear,” but which we need to put into action.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure that the Leader agrees that question time is both the best of this House and, sometimes, the worst. Does he also agree, as I think he does, that occasionally the transgressions come from the Dispatch Box? On statements of opinion, does he agree that from time to time opinion is expressed about the conduct of the Opposition, which is perhaps not always relevant to the Question being asked? Will he consider stressing to his colleagues how important these rules are?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I will certainly stress the rules to all Members of the House, both Front Bench and Back Bench.

Prisons: Deaths of Young People

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 6th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con)]

My Lords, we will hear from the Labour Benches first. I am sure we can get both questions in if we are quick, and if the questions are short and the answers brief.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, briefly, could the Minister confirm that the health assessment at the very beginning of custody includes assessment of mental health? If it does—which I hope it does—can the Minister say who conducts those mental health assessments and whether they are fully competent to do so?

Education: Vocational Education

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 26th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

It is not just parents and employers who find them a maze, it is Ministers as well. They are extremely bewildering. My noble friend is right that simplification is called for. She will know that the Wolf review called for a great deal of simplification and a thinning out of qualifications. In terms of the value of those qualifications, it is important that we have effective and clear destination measures so that people can make judgments fairly and openly about the quality of the education being offered in different institutions.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, will the noble Lord consider expanding the notion of vocational education just a little bit to include those people whose vocation is in the arts, particularly those who wish to take up careers in the performing arts, for which they have to undertake very long and always very demanding training? Does he think that their needs are being served by the fact that the EBacc does not contain any reference to their subjects?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree very much with the noble Baroness about the importance of those subjects and disciplines and the rigour that they entail. In terms of the EBacc, I think she knows my view that the concentration on the small number of subjects leaves plenty of space for other important subjects that are not those six core subjects. I certainly agree that art, drama and music are important subjects which one would want to see children learning and thriving at.

UN Convention on the Rights of the Child

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I am sure all noble Lords would agree that we want to make sure that adoption processes are delivered in the best interests of the child. As the noble Lord says, the Government are keen to try to accelerate the process because we know that the average length of time it takes for a child to be placed in adoption is more than two and a half years. If it is the right thing for a child, we are very keen that that process should happen as quickly as possible in a sensible way, and to try to address the great disparity in practice between different local authority areas.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, would the Minister be so kind as to return to the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Massey? She specifically asked what the barriers were to the proper scrutiny of Bills that have already been passed into law. I am not sure that the Minister gave us an answer to that question.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

Forgive me if I did not deal with that. I do not know that there are barriers in the sense in which the question was put. We need to make sure that post-legislative scrutiny takes these factors into account; and that, while legislation is being drawn up within departments, the requirement to take into account the UNCRC obligations is taken properly into account, and that Ministers and departments are aware of that. Another factor that will help is the new powers which we hope will be given to the Children’s Commissioner, if we can get a legislative slot to do so, which will make the Children’s Commissioner more independent of my department and accountable to Parliament rather than to the department. That will also have a role in shining a spotlight on this.

Young Children: Language Development

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 8th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I agree with the point underlying the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Quirk, about the importance of this. Our combination of measures will include the point that he refers to about making sure that Ofsted inspectors get specific training in identifying the problem that he raises about linguistic development. The number of language therapists is going up as well, and I hope that with our range of measures we will make the kind of progress that he would like. Will we be able to catch every child always and give them the help that they want? That is a noble aspiration, but I cannot put my hand on my heart and say that we will, for obvious reasons.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that for many children the problem is, as the noble Lord, Lord Quirk, outlined, not that they have any native problem but that they live in a severely impoverished environment as far as language is concerned? Anticipating a Question further down the Order Paper, does he agree that it is necessary for the Government and local authorities to do everything possible to promote reading programmes for children, and particularly programmes that allow them to be read to, both in and out of school, which will go a very long way to make better that impoverishment?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I agree entirely with the importance of reading and about the crucial role that parents play in that. It is not just a practical point; I cannot think of anything nicer than the bond between parent and child that comes through reading. I also agree that speaking to one's child is part of this as well. I agree with the importance of all those points.

Education: Music

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I think one of the reasons why we are losing a number of teachers at secondary school and, in particular, the number of music teachers is dropping is that the number of pupils at secondary schools is dropping. I agree with my noble friend entirely about the importance of making sure that we have really good teachers able to teach music particularly at primary level, and we have plans to improve initial training for music teachers. As far as the EBacc is concerned, my noble friend knows well the Government’s position, which is to concentrate on a small number of subjects that give children the greatest chance of going to strong universities. The Russell Group supports the choice of subjects. However, I know how strongly she feels and that there are pressures from all sides of the House for us to extend the number of subjects in the EBacc.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, I know that the noble Lord’s department no longer has responsibility for higher education, but, following on from the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, would the Minister agree that music teachers have to be trained, that the places where they are mostly trained is in small specialist institutions, such as music conservatoires, and that those conservatoires are currently very anxious about the effect on them of the changes to higher education funding? Will the Minister ask his colleagues in the relevant department to give us an assurance that those institutions will be protected, thus guaranteeing a supply of high-quality music teaching in the future?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I will take up that point, as the noble Baroness asks. As far as my department is concerned, she will know, through the Music and Dance Scheme, that we will continue to make funding available in order to get talented young children going into those conservatoires, which is part of the solution. I will take up her point.

Youth Services

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Tuesday 25th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I fear that I am not going to be able to give a precise answer to the noble Lord. As is often the case, these judgments need to be made on a case-by-case basis, but those powers do exist in that legislation. I know that this is something that my honourable friend Mr Loughton, who is the responsible Minister, is aware of.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, the Minister will no doubt not be aware that I, along with colleagues, spent some part of this morning listening to evidence provided by voluntary service groups which are offering services to at-risk young women in Leeds, the north-east and elsewhere. No doubt he will be aware that these voluntary sector services are coming under enormous pressure at the moment because their core funding is, on the whole, being removed. Will he acknowledge the enormous contribution the voluntary sector makes in the area of youth services and tell the House in what way he thinks their current funding crisis can be helped?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving me the opportunity to say how much we welcome the role played by the voluntary sector. It is extremely important, as she says, and we would be keen to extend that role. That is one of the areas that I know my honourable friend Mr Loughton is looking at in bringing forward proposals later in the year—probably at the end of November—and launching his “positive for youth” strategy, which will look at involving that sector. I know he is working with the voluntary sector on that plan. More generally, on the noble Baroness’s point about the funding situation, there is not a lot that I can say. I do not hide the fact that we face a difficult financial situation. We have had to make difficult choices and have pushed those choices down to local authorities where we think they can most sensibly be made. Beyond that, so far as the money is concerned, there is little extra I can add.

Education Bill

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Tuesday 18th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I did not say that a parent who has concerns would have to go to judicial review. I am arguing that for a parent who has those concerns— I agree 100 per cent with the noble Baroness that a parent would want to have them investigated and taken forward—there are a number of ways, whether through the police, the local authority, the LADO, and so on, to make sure that those concerns are investigated. I am not at all saying that if they have concerns I would expect them to have to go to judicial review.

We are absolutely clear that genuine victims of abuse must be able to disclose the abuse and that such reports must be investigated properly. These provisions do not interfere with that. They do not prevent the police interviewing witnesses. We think that effective investigations are possible without press reporting. The police can seek to lift the reporting restrictions if necessary to draw attention to an issue if they are seeking more information about a particular person.

The other amendment proposed by my noble friend would mean that reporting restrictions would lift when a person who is the subject of an allegation resigned or was dismissed from the relevant employment. He is concerned that without this amendment, Clause 13 may help schools cover up misconduct and argues that press reporting is an important check on such behaviour.

One difficulty with the amendment is that its implications would go well beyond this issue; for example, it would mean that any teacher who resigned to take up a post at another school would lose their protection against the reporting of allegations, even if the allegation was unfounded and had no influence on the teacher’s decision to resign. We are committed to ensuring that genuine allegations of abuse are investigated properly by the appropriate authorities. Schools have a statutory duty to investigate allegations and, where appropriate, to refer them to the relevant authority. Our new statutory guidance on this subject makes absolutely clear that if a person tenders his or her resignation or ceases to provide their services, that must not prevent an allegation being investigated. If it is well founded, the investigation will lead to the police bringing a charge or to the regulator holding a hearing. At that point, the reporting restrictions will lift. If there is insufficient evidence to reach this point, we think it is right that the teacher’s anonymity is protected and their reputation and career safeguarded.

I accept that a small minority of heads may in theory seek to cover up allegations or may not be as swift in acting on them as we would wish. However, I do not think that press reporting is the best or the only way to counter this possibility. If parents or others are not satisfied that schools are dealing with an allegation, they have recourse other than through the press: they can refer the case to the national regulator; they can ask the Secretary of State to investigate and exercise his powers of direction; they can go directly to the police if they consider a criminal offence may have been committed. In addition, if any person feels that there is a strong public interest in publishing details of identifying information about a teacher against whom allegations of criminal behaviour have been made, they can apply to the local magistrates for reporting restrictions to be lifted.

I will quickly reply to a couple of less contentious points. My noble friend Lord Phillips asked about government Amendment 42. In order to cover ambiguous allegations that someone might be guilty of an offence where, for example, a pupil claims, “I think it was teacher X who did it”, we have changed the definition from,

“an allegation that the person is guilty of a relevant criminal offence”,

to “may be” guilty of an offence.

My noble friend Lady Walmsley was worried that Clause 13 might unintentionally hinder Ofsted from including information in its reports that it would otherwise want to include. I recognise her concerns about that. In cases where a school is found to be failing to implement arrangements for safeguarding and promoting the welfare of children appropriately, we expect inspectors to include judgments or commentary about such failings in published reports. In light of her concerns, my officials contacted Ofsted today to ask whether it thinks there is a risk that Clause 13 might constrain inspectors in making their reports. Ofsted said that inspectors would not feel constrained in reporting on a safeguarding issue. As a matter of general policy, they always take care in writing reports to ensure that no individuals can be identified. Of course, if the inspectors uncover safeguarding concerns during an inspection they can and should provide full detail, including the identities of those concerned to the appropriate authorities and the reporting restrictions would not interfere with that in any way.

Those were the less contentious ones. I understand the strength of the feeling of my noble friend Lord Phillips, and the passion with which he has argued this evening. I have been able to agree with him on two of the improvements to the clause that he has proposed. I know he will not agree with me but I think there are difficulties with the two further ones he has put forward—that they would weaken the protection that we are seeking to give to teachers—and I ask him to withdraw his amendments.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall)]

My Lords, I should point out to the House, if I may, that the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, has not actually moved his amendment. It has not yet come up. My duty at this moment is to ask the House whether it wishes to agree to the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Hill, which, if I may, I will now do.

Education Bill

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 11th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, this is a timely debate—only the week before last the department published its strategy for initial teacher training. That set out a vision for raising the quality of teachers, which I hope will address some of the concerns of my noble friend Lord Willis about how we might move forward. It also set out our plans to give schools more involvement in training. The reason for that is that schools are employers of teachers as well as places where trainees can learn from outstanding teachers. So we are keen that schools should form an important part of the mix of our system for recruiting and training new teachers. In saying that, and responding to my noble friend Lady Brinton, I assure noble Lords that the Government’s intention is certainly not to remove universities from teacher training. As the Training our Next Generation of Outstanding Teachers document says:

“There is an important role for universities in any future ITT system. They provide trainees with a solid grounding in teaching, and space to reflect on their school experiences”.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

My Lords, a Division has been called. The Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes.

Children: Ofsted Report

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Wednesday 25th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, it is clearly the case that the kind of children to whom the right reverend Prelate refers are those who are often at greatest risk. In working out the best system for learning the lessons and applying them across different disciplines, one would want to look very closely at the implications for children in care.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, are the Government aware that the General Medical Council is currently involved in preparing new guidance for doctors who are involved in child protection issues? I declare an interest as an independent member of the working group that is helping to prepare that guidance. Does the noble Lord agree that GPs are often at the very front line in identifying child protection issues and that they have difficult issues of their own to resolve, such as conflicts of interest between a child and that child’s family? Will he ensure that the voice of doctors is heard very clearly in the Government’s current review?

Education: English Baccalaureate

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Tuesday 17th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend about the importance of the creative subjects in terms of the contribution they can make to the creative industries, as she says, and as a good in themselves. It is right and good for children to learn about these subjects for the benefit of education, not just for some gradgrindian economic benefit. I agree with her very strongly on that. The thinking behind the EBacc is not in any way to undermine or diminish the value of other subjects that are not in the EBacc. The starting point is that all of us in this House are keen to encourage social mobility. The fact is that children, particularly from poor backgrounds, have not been having the opportunity to study the kind of academic subjects that will enable them to progress to higher education in the numbers that one would like. We are all keen for children from poor backgrounds to become doctors in the way that those from more affluent backgrounds do, yet only 4 per cent of children on free school meals take physics or chemistry. Any further measure we take will not help those children become doctors. We hope the EBacc will give children who want it the opportunity to study academic subjects. Children, however, come in all shapes and sizes and vocational, arts and creative subjects are equally important.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, I do not think that anybody in this House would doubt the Minister’s personal belief in the value of the subjects to which the noble Baroness, Lady Bonham-Carter, referred. Can he say how the Government will ensure that schools do not reduce the resources that they make available for the teaching of those subjects in order to boost their potential league table performance by concentrating only on baccalaureate subjects? Is it not the case that universities and employers look for young people who are not only good at passing exams in academic subjects, but are also well rounded human beings?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree with the underlying point. That is, of course, what employers are looking for. As the noble Baroness will know, one of the thrusts of our school reforms is to try to give head teachers greater discretion and autonomy to teach the subjects they think are appropriate for the pupils in their care. It is not for us to tell them what to do the whole time. If we can strip back the national curriculum, freeing up more unprescribed time to study some of these other subjects, I hope that will help. Ultimately, it is our view that it is for schools to decide and for pupils and parents to make their views known. The more information that we can publish so that parents and others can see what choices schools are offering, the more it will help to make sure that children are able to study the subjects that are right for them and are not driven by perverse incentives in league tables. This is where I agree with the noble Baroness. We have to be very careful that we do not end up with children studying subjects that are not suitable so that schools can do better in league tables.

National Music Plan

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 28th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I very much take that point. The role that music can play for all children is hugely important. The previous Government recognised that and made a lot of progress in increasing and improving provision generally for all children. We are keen to build on that, but I recognise that the role music can play in helping children with special educational needs is important.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, may I invite the Minister to confirm the Government’s belief, which I think they hold, that the specialist music conservatoires in this country play a very important role in music education, not only in providing specialist education for performers but also in educating educators? Will he therefore pass on to his colleagues who deal with higher education the observation that continuing uncertainty about the availability of exceptional funding for this specialist education is not in the best interests of music education, either for students or the people whom they may subsequently teach?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

Yes and yes, my Lords. I will certainly do that. I agree entirely agree with the point made by the noble Baroness about the important role that the conservatoires play. I hope that we will be able to build on Teach First, which is another excellent scheme introduced by the previous Government, and to look in particular at whether we can encourage more graduates of that scheme who have been through the conservatoire system to learn to teach and to spread what they have learnt. I will certainly relay the noble Baroness’s second point to BIS.

Children: Commercialisation

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 10th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

That issue is being addressed separately, not as part of this review. I agree that it is important, and the Government, led by my honourable friend Tim Loughton, are looking into those issues.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that while it is obviously important that we protect our children and give them as much information and help as we can, we must also try to avoid giving them the message that everyone is a threat? Among the many things that we have to warn them about, we should also teach them to trust people.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree entirely; that was part of my earlier point about treating adults like children and children like adults. Part of what one can do around vetting and barring and making it easier for adults to become involved as volunteers is not to start from the standpoint that they are all potential abusers of children. That is an extremely important part of it. I agree with the noble Baroness.

Education: Funding

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 5th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I will ensure that the terms of reference for the independent review are available. If they have not already been placed in the Library, they should be. I take the noble Baroness’s point that it is precisely on those who need help most that one ought to be concentrating such capital as we have.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, in his brief time in this House, the Minister has earned the respect of the whole House for the way in which he has discharged his duties so far. I sympathise with him for having had to repeat what was really a pretty shameless bit of grandstanding on the part of his right honourable friend in another place.

However, my question now is concerned with the leadership issue that was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Low of Dalston. Without any question, we are facing difficult times—they are going to be hard, whichever way the cake is carved up—and the people who are going to have to be fully committed and thoroughly supported as we go into this next period are teachers. Rather than just suggesting that his right honourable friend should perhaps not think too badly of the National College for Leadership, will the Minister tell the House that there will be significant resources available not only to train teachers to come into the profession but to reinforce and reskill the teachers already in it, who will need to be at the top of their bent as we go into the next decade?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness. Forgive me for my previous answer to the noble Lord, Lord Low. I was not being evasive; I did not know the precise nature of the commitment that we had given. If the noble Baroness will permit me, perhaps I can contact her and the noble Lord after today and, I hope, give a more precise answer to her question.

Schools: Modern Languages

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Tuesday 8th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for that important point. There will be a consultation as part of the review of the overall national curriculum and how it should be delivered. I hope that as many noble Lords as possible—I do not think many will need much invitation—will contribute to that review because it is extremely important that we get this right.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that whereas teaching primary school children modern languages is obviously of great benefit to them, it has to be sustained into the secondary system as well? There is, I suspect, an increasing shortage of suitable candidates, and the issue of training teachers will be resolved only if the teaching of modern languages in secondary schools is made compulsory to a higher level than is currently the case and more people are encouraged to take them on at university.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I understand those points very clearly. In regard to the overall review of the curriculum, its content and the question of what should and should not be compulsory, we shall need to reflect on those points and come up with conclusions in due course.