Representation of the People (Proxy Vote Applications) (Coronavirus) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Lord Hayward Excerpts

Tuesday 8th February 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, this proposal to extend the rules governing late proxy vote applications as a consequence of coronavirus medical advice, including self-isolation, is appropriate and, as the Minister has just said, prudent. The consultation on the measures with the Parliamentary Parties Panel elicited no comments and the Electoral Commission seems content as well, so there is no reason, in my view, for this Committee to take a different view. It is anyway a sensible measure that is time-limited to a further 12 months.

I understand the comments of the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments on the clarity of the territorial and temporal limitations imposed by Regulations 1 and 2, but I also understand the complexities of drafting these regulations. The commitment of the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities to bear in mind the comments made about clarity should suffice, since this is in effect a one-year extension to an existing set of regulations.

[Lord Hayward (Con)]

The noble Lord in his opening comments made reference to the previous SIs, which were debated in the Chamber on 4 March last year and which included a number of changes, as he indicated. One of them was in relation to the number of signatures that could be required for nominations for local elections: it was previously 10 and was reduced to two in the circumstances relating to coronavirus.

At the time the subject was debated, I indicated that I regretted that the change was time-limited to end in February 2022. Since then, consultations have taken place. I know that I speak in support of the views of the LGA and that this matter has been discussed informally at the Parliamentary Parties Panel in the presence of the Electoral Commission. There is therefore general all-party support—although I say this without having consulted the Green Party; I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, is due to speak in a moment so she may express a view. But there is a general all-party view that the one, time-limited exemption to the end of February 2022 should now be lifted and that there should be an ongoing exemption. That would fit in with the spirit of the SI to which we are referring today.

I failed to say at the start of my comments that I had given the Minister and his office notice that I was intending to cover this point. Given that we are nearing the local elections, I hope that the Minister will be able to indicate that something which has all-party support can be expedited, that the time limit should be removed and that we can go on using two signatures, which is more than is required now in Wales and Scotland.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, as is evident, the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, and I have not consulted in advance on this. I very much agree with his comments, and indeed I offer further cross-party support to this amendment. I also wanted to raise a question about why this is only for 12 months and to look at the practical situation that we are in now.

The Minister in introducing this SI focused rightly— I have absolutely no disagreement on the democracy side of this SI—on the obvious public health element here. You do not want people with a contagious illness, very keen to vote, trailing into the polling station, with all the obvious risks of spreading that disease further. If we look back over recent history—SARS, MERS, swine flu, the threat of bird flu—we are in a new age where contagious illness is becoming more of a threat and a problem. We also have a big problem with antibiotic resistance to a variety of diseases.

To preserve both democracy and public health, the department, parties and everyone should think about the fact that contagious illness is a threat to us all. I do not necessarily expect a sudden big announcement today, but I want to put that on the agenda. People want to do the right thing both for democracy and not to spread an illness. Obviously, illnesses come on quite quickly—it is not something that you can predict—so it would make sense to have a measure like this for all relevant illnesses, both for democracy and for public health.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all those who have taken part in this short debate, and I particularly welcome the general support given on behalf of all parties, starting with the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and for the recognition that the timely completion of this instrument is crucial in ensuring successful running of polls throughout 2022 while Covid regulations remain in place.

The immediate assurance that I can certainly give to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, is that there is absolutely no question of reducing the extent of protection for those in what was originally defined as the shielding groups. Under the extended regulations, electors will be able to appoint an emergency proxy to vote on their behalf without attestation when they are legally required to isolate and when attending a polling station would be contrary to advice provided by their medical professional—the kind of group that she described—and, indeed, when they believe that attendance at a polling station could lead to transmission of coronavirus. For example, they may be displaying symptoms but awaiting a test result. That picks up on what the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, was saying. Electors are also able to amend their existing proxy arrangements at very short notice, when the proxy is unable to vote on their behalf, due to the reasons above. So the technical change in wording does not reduce to any degree the availability or accessibility of arrangements, and I am very glad that the noble Baroness raised it. If I had been in her place, and seeing these words disappearing, I would have wanted to ask that question, which is why I anticipated it to some degree and mentioned it in my opening remarks.

My noble friend Lord Hayward, with support, raised the question of correspondence between him and my department, and indeed, DLUHC on this matter. As he knows, as part of our consultation on the Elections Bill this morning, we also discussed the matter. The statutory instruments here—this one and others—were made in the context of the height of the original Covid pandemic, when the Government were encouraging absolutely minimal social interaction and there was legislation in place restricting such activity. That is no longer the case, and therefore we judge that the measure is no longer necessary on Covid grounds. The Government are clear that it is important that the democratic process is as accessible as possible, and making that change permanent for specific polls, for which my noble friend asks, would need consideration in the context of wider electoral policy and legislation.

However, I welcome the point raised by my noble friend and by the noble Baroness opposite, and the Elections Bill is coming before your Lordships’ House very shortly. The Government are certainly open to further discussion on this topic. The existing arrangements have been useful. It may interest the House to know that in the May 2021 PCC, mayoral and local elections, there were 2,800 instances in which the facilities afforded by these regulations were made use of. That is not a phenomenal number of people, but they were used by certain people at the height of the pandemic, so they have been useful. We consider that while the pandemic continues, it is worth extending the provision allowing electors to appoint a proxy or change their existing proxy up until 5 pm on polling day on various grounds relating to Covid. That is sensible, but there is a point on the other side, fairly made by the noble Baroness, that there is a balance in these things when making permanent procedures which might make it easy to circumvent the normal controls. This is a specific measure introduced to help people during the course of the pandemic. However, the Government are considering very carefully that balance, and I look forward to discussing it during the course of the Elections Bill.

I hope I have responded to—

[Lord Hayward (Con)]

I seek clarification in the light of what I understand my noble friend to have just said. We had previously written, seeking on behalf of all parties and organisations such as the Local Government Association—which supports the proposal—and the intention was quite clear in the correspondence that I wrote, originally almost a month ago, that there would not be the opportunity for an SI to be brought forward now and that, therefore, we would have to wait for the Elections Bill for such a change to be implemented. If that is the case, I regret, given that the conversations have been ongoing, that I and others—including the LGA and others, not only political parties but organisations representing interested parties—could have been told or received some indication previously.

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I am disappointed by my noble friend’s comment. I regret that he is disappointed. The regulations we put in place were clearly time-limited and intended to be so. I indicated to him, as he well knows, in correspondence that took place and my response to the noble Baroness opposite, that the Government are open to discussion on this particular point, but the Government believe that careful consideration must be given to it in view of some of the implications. No doubt, my noble friend will have the opportunity on the Elections Bill to raise the matter again.

I can assure my noble friend that no personal discourtesy was intended by me or, I am sure, by any Minister in the responsible department in failing to deal with this matter in the timescale he asked for. If he has been offended, of course I regret that, but I stand by the position that I put before your Lordships, which I thought was fair. I think I said that I welcomed the point that he and the noble Baroness opposite had raised and that we are open to further discussions on this topic. I made the same point to my noble friend this morning in the exchanges we had on the Elections Bill, and I have nothing further to add.