Brexit: Triggering Article 50

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Wednesday 29th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we are looking for a new, deep and special relationship with the EU and we believe it will be a very fruitful relationship. In terms of other opportunities, we are looking for excellent trade agreements with countries across the world. We have fantastic bilateral agreements with countries across the world. We are looking to be a global nation.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Not at all. We have made it very clear that we share the same values and we want to see them remain strong. That is one of the things that we have in common and one of the things that will ensure that we continue to have a strong relationship with our European counterparts.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords, I am one of those who think that today is a pretty sad day but I also do not think it is a day to carp or criticise. The Prime Minister and the Government are setting off down a road which can best be described as a magical mystery tour, the destination of which they have no clue—any more than the rest of us do. But I wish them well in this thing, and I would like to put two questions. First, while I very much welcome the very strong emphasis the Government have put on the mutual benefit of maintaining and, indeed, strengthening the co-operation against all forms of international crime, can the Leader say by what process of adjudication any disputes on those matters will be resolved? Secondly, yesterday the Prime Minister urged us to,

“get out into the world”.

Can the Leader give us one example of circumstances where we are prevented from doing that by our present membership of the European Union?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

On the latter point, obviously we will be looking to negotiate new free trade agreements with countries across the world. On the noble Lord’s first point, that will be a matter for negotiations.

European Council

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with the concerns of the noble Lord. We will certainly be engaging closely with our partners. The summit next year that I mentioned will be focused on tackling serious and organised crime, anti-corruption and cybersecurity, and will include Prime Ministers and Foreign and Economic Ministers from the west Balkans and key partners such as France, Germany, Italy, Austria and the EU institutions. We are also providing a range of support to the region, including more law enforcement resources to tackle organised crime groups with links to the western Balkans, additional embassy staff, UK-led capacity building to build resilience to serious and organised crime in the region, and strategic communications expertise to the EU institutions to counter disinformation campaigns in the region. It is an issue that we take extremely seriously and that the Prime Minister led on in this Council meeting.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

I very much welcome what was said about supporting the negotiations with Japan and other trade negotiations that the EU is conducting. I welcome also the realism that the Prime Minister has shown in saying that those agreements when concluded will provide a good basis for our own agreements when we are outside the EU. However, where does that leave the argument that we have to leave the EU to have these benefits? Secondly, in the western Balkans there is again a very welcome development. Will the noble Baroness confirm that our co-operation will continue even if, as is very likely, the EU decides in June to co-ordinate its activity in the western Balkans through an operational headquarters in Brussels?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

On the first part of the noble Lord’s question, we are leaving the EU. That is the decision that has been made, and we will now work with our European partners to come to the best deal that we can between us. We will want excellent trade agreements with other countries. We continue to support the EU in ensuring that its economy as a whole improves, but want the best deals with our partners. We are absolutely committed to continuing to work with our European partners in the west Balkans. As the noble Lord said, it is extremely important to all our security.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, the Bill we are debating tonight is short but certainly not sweet—at least for a person like myself who voted last June to remain in the European Union. In her Lancaster House speech, the Prime Minister exhorted us to believe that leaving the European Union leads towards a brighter future for our children and our grandchildren. I am sorry to disappoint the Prime Minister, but neither I, nor my children, nor my grandchildren believe that. It remains my view that we will be less prosperous, less secure and less influential in the world than we would have been had we decided to stay in the EU. But that was not the view taken by the majority of those who voted, and I accept, as I have since 24 June, that it would not be proper or correct for this House to frustrate the triggering of Article 50. I only wish that the ardent supporters of Brexit, some of them in this House, would cease denigrating and trying to suppress the views of those who think as I do. That surely is as undemocratic an approach as you can get.

While the Lancaster House speech and the White Paper which followed it have lifted a small part of the veil in which the Government have shrouded their policy since the referendum, we have not yet seen more than a glimpse of its ankle, and we have not been given a single metric or impact assessment on the choices the Government have already made and are preparing to make more of. Not a figure has emerged setting out the various options and costing them as those published last March, from which the new Government have resiled, are no longer valid. There has been no word about the shape of the new immigration regime, the altar on which our membership of the single market is to be sacrificed, and no hint of how the Government propose to sustain the common travel area with Ireland and to avoid the reimposition of border controls on goods moving between Northern Ireland and the Republic. The Government assure us that they have been conducting detailed studies of all these matters, and on every part of the economy, but they have not shown us the results of any of those studies—perhaps the results are just too alarming to be shown. We are really being asked to buy a pig in a poke.

What can one say about the choices the Government have made already? It was surely unwise to make a pre-emptive decision to leave the single market before we had any idea of what alternatives might be negotiable. Issues relating to freedom of movement are under great stress at the moment within the European Union. Might it not have been better to see how much flexibility could be available in 18 months’ time, rather than to decide now that we were not going to even look for that flexibility? As for the customs union, if our partners can understand what the Government said in the White Paper, they are better at reading runes than I am.

It is helpful that the Government have now begun to face up to the fact that we need a dispute settlement procedure as part of our new partnership—although they have not, I have to say, got very far. It is truly staggering that a Government who accept the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, of the International Criminal Court, of the European Court of Human Rights, of the dispute settlement procedures of the World Trade Organization and of the Law of the Sea should have conceived such a horror of the European Court of Justice, despite the fact that the court has often in the last 44 years handed down judgments of great benefit to this country, such as striking down restrictive practices and dealing with illegal state aid and non-tariff barriers to trade. Of course it has made judgments during that time which we did not like—but so, of course, does our own Supreme Court, as the Government have discovered quite recently.

Faced with this paucity of information and this degree of obfuscation, what can and should we do when we look at the Bill in detail? The most important thing is to ensure that, when a deal is struck, or when it is clear that one cannot be struck, both Houses are seized of the outcome in a timely manner, enabling them to make decisions and to avoid that cliff edge which the Prime Minister, quite rightly, wishes to avoid. Some assurances have been given to this effect in the other place, but they are fairly vague and are no doubt capable of any amount of subsequent misleading description and use. Provisions on this point clearly need to go into the Bill—and, since the Government have conceded the principle, it should not be too difficult to do that.

I have one concluding thought. The UK needs to concentrate on the positive aspects of its vision for a new partnership to establish that prospect of mutual benefit without which any hope of a positive outcome for negotiations will simply not materialise. The Government have begun to do this on foreign policy and European security, on scientific co-operation and on law enforcement and internal security—but so far in far too tentative and hesitant a way. We need to face outwards, towards our past and future partners, not backwards towards those who reject everything about the European Union. Our face needs to be a smiling and not a snarling one—particularly to the 3 million citizens from other European countries who live and work here.

Informal European Council

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Prime Minister has been very clear that we believe the ban is divisive and wrong and that it is absolutely not a policy that we would pursue. She had a good conversation with Chancellor Merkel which covered a whole range of issues.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, when the Prime Minister introduced her White Paper and Lancaster House speech—the Statement said that it was welcomed, particularly the reference to a new partnership, which I think is a very good label to give it—did her colleagues indicate whether they would start negotiating on the new partnership as soon as Article 50 is triggered, or do they still hold to the Commission’s point of view that the negotiations on divorce have to come first and that the other negotiation can only be consecutive? Secondly, did she find that all 27 of her colleagues agreed with the view held by herself and the Home Secretary that President Trump’s travel ban is not only wrong but also extraordinarily likely to lead to increased radicalisation in Muslim countries, which can only put European countries at greater risk?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said in the Statement, the Prime Minister has said that our European partners want to get on with the negotiations. We all want to move on so that we can come to a good deal. As I have also said, we have been very clear that we believe the ban is divisive and wrong.

European Council

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Baroness is right that we believe that that is the right approach, because it provides stability and certainty, and gives us time to look in huge detail at the rules and regulations we want to keep and those that we perhaps want to repeal.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister accept thanks for one part of the Statement, which is the first occasion on which the Prime Minister has recognised that there will need to be serious, in-depth co-operation on security, justice and home affairs issues, which are extraordinarily important? That is very welcome, although doing it will be a great deal more difficult than talking about doing it. Can the Minister address the issue about the work that is going on in talking to third countries around the world about new trade agreements? Can she say what the International Trade Secretary says to his interlocutors when they ask him, “What will your external tariff be? Will you be in the customs union, or not? What will your relationship be with the European Union?”? If he cannot answer any of those questions, is he doing anything but adding to his air miles?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord is absolutely right about security. When we leave the EU our commitment to work with our European and global allies on these issues will be undiminished. As part of negotiations we will discuss with the EU and member states how best to continue co-operation on security, law enforcement and criminal justice because this is an incredibly important area for all of us. As I say, I will not preclude the conversations that my right honourable friends in the other place are having. Suffice it to say that a number of countries have told us that they would welcome talks on future free trade agreements, and we look forward to getting into the detail of them.

European Council

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I would say something else in response to my noble friend and his comment about churlishness or any kind of negativity, and that is to point noble Lords to the comments made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. The talks that took place yesterday in Europe were constructive; the tone was warm. We have not reached a point where we are doing anything other than proceeding in a way that is both responsible and constructive and that will lead to, as far as we are concerned, a continuing relationship—albeit a very different one in the future—because we think that is important and in everybody’s interest.

As to my noble friend’s comment about freedom of movement and the prospect of that being changed in some way, I am not sure that the read-out that the Prime Minister has given me, or the comments that he made to the other place, would be quite as encouraging as my noble friend has suggested. On the contrary, the leaders of the other members of the European Union do feel very strongly about freedom of movement—and that being not just goods, services and capital but also people—and what the Prime Minister explained in his discussions with them last night was that a willingness to consider that differently might have made a difference. I think it is also worth noting that this new future arrangement with the European Union, whatever it may be, will not lead to the deal that the Prime Minister did strike some months ago. I do not think we should underestimate him, and perhaps now we can see just how much he did achieve in getting them to agree to those changes to the welfare arrangements as a response to this particular issue.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, would the noble Baroness the Leader of the House recognise that what the Prime Minister said about the treatment of European Union citizens in this country is that he will graciously apply the law of the land—no more, no less? Does she not think it a little odd that the Prime Minister and the Government should have to say that they will obey the law of this country? That is what that adds up to—nothing more. Could the noble Baroness tell us what figures for growth of the British economy underpins the figures she quoted from the European Central Bank regarding the effect on the eurozone economy? Those figures must exist; otherwise, they could not could not have been produced.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am not able to provide right now the data that the noble Lord has asked for on the economy. If I can, I will write to the noble Lord with that information. I would say to him again, and to the House as a whole, that we have a strong economy in this country, and it is because of that strong economy that we are in a good position to withstand whatever period of uncertainty we are about to endure.

Outcome of the EU Referendum

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

It is the turn of the Labour Benches. I hope that the Cross Benches will have an opportunity of getting in after that.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for the positive comments that he has made about the Prime Minister, but I am afraid I disagree with him about everything else that he has said. We were very clear in our manifesto that we wanted to provide the British people with an opportunity to decide on membership of the European Union. As I have already said, I am very proud that we gave people this opportunity and delivered on that clear commitment. We have arrived at a point that, as I was trying to suggest earlier, has been a long time coming. This is not about party unity, this is about giving people the opportunity to decide on something very significant. The people have decided they want change, and we have to respect that. It is not what I campaigned for, but they have decided. We are going to implement that decision, which is the right thing for us to concentrate on now.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords, would the Leader of the House agree that the timing of the triggering of Article 50 ought to be a relatively trivial and technical decision? It is entirely reasonable for the Government to say that they do not wish to do it until there is a new Prime Minister and a new Government in place. That is a reasonable point of view. But it would not be reasonable to start using it as a negotiating card and turning it into a bone of contention with those with whom we are going to have to negotiate constructively if we are to get a good outcome. I hope that she can agree that that is indeed the best way forward. The noble and learned Lord and the noble Lord, Lord Mandelson, raised the matter of the appointment of a British commissioner. The noble Baroness says that she will come back on that when she has an answer, but could she not register that it would be completely improper, under the terms of the treaty, for there to be no British commissioner for a period that could exceed two years? That really is not tolerable, either for us or for the Commission itself.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

On the noble Lord’s first point, as I have said, it was a very clear decision by the Prime Minister that Article 50 should be triggered by his successor at the point at which they are clear on the kind of relationship that we are seeking with Europe. It has been reassuring that many other European leaders and senior figures within the European Union have acknowledged that we are right to consider this properly before we trigger Article 50.

European Council: March 2016

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord is right to highlight that the root cause of all this is ISIS, or Daesh, and the appalling atrocities that it is performing in that part of the world. There is now a new Prime Minister in place in Libya and a new unity Government have just been established. The Foreign Secretary has already been in touch with the new Prime Minister. We stand ready to assist in Libya, but we will not take any action there without it being in response to a request. Clearly, if there was any extension of any activity in that part of world, the Prime Minister would want to return to the House of Commons. In the mean time, we have increased our presence as part of the NATO regime off the coast of Libya to try to do more to tackle smuggling before people leave the Libyan coast.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, I confess my heart sank slightly when the first sentence of the Statement said that this was a migration crisis affecting “continental Europe”. However, since the rest of the Statement said that it is quite clearly a crisis that affects the whole of Europe, I think we can pass that over in silence.

The Government have until now attached and still attach huge importance to taking Syrian refugees only from countries such as Jordan and Lebanon with the co-operation of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. I think it is a bit excessive that they refuse even to contemplate those who reach Europe. Does the Statement mean that from now on they will accept refugees in Turkey who are registered as being genuine refugees? Will our 20,000—I am not seeking to raise the issue of numbers—include refugees taken from camps in Turkey and thus, of course, be helpful to the commitments that the European Union has entered into to help Turkey handle the increased number of refugees it will get when many are returned from Greece?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Yes, my Lords, we will of course take refugees from Turkey. Some of the refugees we have already received as a consequence of the Syrian crisis will be based in Turkey because they will be in some of the camps which are outside Syria on the border with Turkey. I can certainly reassure the noble Lord on that.

European Council

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 22nd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I certainly agree with the noble Lord that voting to remain in the European Union is very much a patriotic decision. If we cast our vote in that way, we are recognising the power and influence we wield as our country in that European Union, and that we will have both the benefit of being in that Union and—because of what has been renegotiated—greater control of our destiny than we have been able to have up to now. The noble Lord is absolutely right about voting to leave. To vote to leave means to leave, and that will be it: it is about being either in or out.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, in my view the agreement reached by the Prime Minister is both substantive and valuable and I thank him for the efforts he made to achieve that. Can the noble Baroness perhaps cast some light on the views of the Mayor of London, who appears to think that if we vote to remain, that will be a green light for federalism? If that is so, why are all the federalist leader-writers on the continent rending their garments because of the agreement reached last week? Could he perhaps be wrong and, while we are at it, could he just understand that the motto of the European Union is not “E pluribus unum” but “United in diversity”?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I think I will leave the noble Lord to get into a battle about Latin with somebody else—I hope he will forgive me, but I will not engage in that. However, I am very grateful to him for recognising that what the Prime Minister achieved in Brussels was substantive and valuable. He is quite right about the reaction in Europe to what the Prime Minister has achieved. Unfortunately, I have only recently been given some quotes so I will not try to read them out, but clearly, the other leaders in Europe have been able to explain to their people that the UK has got itself a new status in Europe, with new terms. They have also acknowledged that, with the exception of the specific carve-out for the United Kingdom on ever closer union, the changes the Prime Minister has negotiated are to the benefit of Europe as a whole—this is not just about a benefit for the UK—and have acknowledged just how hard the Prime Minister pressed them during these negotiations. The noble Baroness referred to the scenes in Europe. I argue that they demonstrated just how difficult it was for the Prime Minister to get this better deal for the UK. On that basis, we can have every confidence in it.

European Union: United Kingdom Renegotiation

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Thursday 4th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I want to take this rare opportunity to say to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, that I agree with him.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness the Leader of the House and the other two Front-Bench spokesmen for their statements. I agree that the Statement marks a significant shift on all four of the Government’s priorities in the renegotiation. I also welcome the noble Baroness’s statement about the legally binding nature of the package that the President of the European Council—not the Commission, by the way—has put on the table. This differentiates it very much from the Stuttgart declaration, which never was and is not legally binding nor does it have any legal force.

First, can the noble Baroness say that the use of the deposit at the United Nations of a legally binding text which was first introduced for Denmark at the time of the Maastricht treaty resulted in all the commitments in its renegotiation being honoured in the spirit and the letter? That is a very important point.

Secondly, while a good deal of mockery is sometimes unleashed on the complexity of this document, particularly in the pages of the press, it is not avoidable for a legal document of this nature not to be complex. If we look at any of the Acts passed by this House, we see that they are not light reading either. The reason is the same: they have to be legally applicable and deal with the legal complexities of the situation that they are set up to face. We should broaden the debate beyond this package when the campaign starts because there are far more important issues even than these to be discussed, but I welcome this Statement.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, both for his contribution and for picking up on my misuse of “Commission” when I should have been saying “Council”. He offers a great deal more experience of the European Union and its institutions, the European Council and indeed the United Nations. I am happy to confirm what he just said, particularly his comparison to Denmark. What is proposed in this document is very much in line with what is in place for Denmark, which has existed for over 20 years and remains absolutely legally binding.