Salisbury Incident Update

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 12th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Baroness for her comments, and I am sure that our fantastic health services are doing all they can to support those who have been in contact with this agent. Once again, we wish Detective Sergeant Bailey all the best for a speedy recovery.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister say just a word more about the Chemical Weapons Convention? Is it a fact that the possession of this substance by the Russian state would be a breach of its obligations under that convention? Presumably, if the answer to that is yes, its use would be an even greater breach. Could she say something about that and whether the Government are considering making a case before the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We believe that this most certainly does go against the spirit of that treaty. We will be discussing that but, as I said, we have spoken to the Russian ambassador, we have set out our two explanations for this incident and I do not want to prejudge what may follow. We should wait, and decisions can be made on the basis of that response.

United Kingdom-European Union Future Economic Partnership

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are very confident of getting a deal and, as we have said, we will be leaving the EU in March 2019.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, can I ask the Minister about two points on what I join others in recognising is a more pragmatic approach than we have had in the past? For example, in the Statement that she read out today were the words,

“we may choose to commit some areas of our regulations, such as state aid and competition, to remaining in step with the EU’s”.

I am sure that the Minister knows that state aid and competition issues are ruled on by the European Commission after lengthy inquiries and are subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. If we are going to do the same, how are we going to do it? By osmosis?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Well, as the Statement made clear, if, as part of our future partnership, Parliament passes, for instance, an identical law to an EU law, it may make sense for our courts to look at the appropriate ECJ judgments so that they can interpret those laws consistently.

European Council

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I think the Prime Minister is quite clear in the Statement about the fact that we do not agree with or tolerate such language. In relation to defence, the noble Lord may have been referring to the launch of PESCO, which is an important initiative to encourage collaboration across the European defence industry and has the potential to drive up defence investment across Europe. Although we do not plan to join the PESCO framework, we want to keep open the option to participate at a project level, including after we have left the EU, so we were pleased with the Council conclusions that allow that. In terms of our future relationship, the noble Lord will be aware that we have published a future partnership paper on Foreign Policy, Defence and Development and indicated, for instance, our interest in future partnerships, including a capability collaboration through the European Defence Agency and the Commission’s European defence fund.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords—

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

On my noble friend’s first point, which picks up on the point that my noble friend made earlier, we are indeed looking to negotiate a bespoke trade agreement. All these agreements are in fact bespoke to the countries involved in them. I also agree with the comments he made at the end of his remarks.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords, the Minister might perhaps help us parse two very short words which relate to the time-limited stand-still period. The words are “as now”. Can she confirm that they cover trade in goods and services, including agricultural and fish products, the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and all other aspects of the single market?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, our objective is for access to each other’s markets to continue on current terms, based on the existing structure of EU rules and regulations. The framework will mean that we will start off under the CJEU and will be under it for part of the period. But the Prime Minister has always said that if we can agree provisions that will be part of the future relationship, such as a dispute resolution mechanism, we will aim to bring them forward at an earlier stage.

Brexit Negotiations

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Prime Minister has said that the money we have discussed is in the context of agreeing our future partnership. We have also been very clear in setting out the valuations and we have agreed the important principles that will apply to how we rely on them. Further, we have agreed a fair settlement with the final bill estimated to stand at around £35 billion to £39 billion, which noble Lords will be aware is at least half of the reports we have had previously about how much money would be involved in the financial settlement. This is a good deal and it also means that we can begin to unlock the talks in order to start talking about the deep and special relationship and our future trading partnership.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister respond to one point that occurs to me very sharply? The statement that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed seems to apply to all three pillars of this first-phase agreement. Is it really conceivable that the Government will take away the agreement that is reached on the status of EU citizens here and our citizens across Europe if there is no agreement? Is it their position that they will remove that? If that is the case, what assurance is being given to those 4 million citizens since they will then know that they will not have clarity until the last minute of the last hour of the last day of the negotiations?

Secondly, on the Irish issue, could not the Minister perhaps apply a common-sense rule which is that the text, it seems to me, states clearly that if there is no agreement, the regulatory alignment will apply in order to avoid a hard border? Is that the position, or is it also subject to being taken off the table if no agreement is reached?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Statement was very clear, and I hope that I was also very clear in my response to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, that we all want to honour the agreements set out in the joint report. We have also said that the withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill, which we will bring forward, will set out what is in the withdrawal agreement—including citizens’ rights, any financial settlement and the details of an implementation period—which will be implemented directly into domestic law by primary legislation.

On Northern Ireland, the Statement made clear that we have agreed a fall-back option of last resort. We simply do not believe that we will be unable to find specific solutions to the border issue; we are confident that we will do so. If we cannot, the UK will maintain full alignment with internal market and customs union rules, which currently support north/south co-operation, economic co-operation across the island of Ireland and the protection of the Belfast agreement—and will do so in future. The joint report also clearly sets out that cross-community safeguards and consent are required from the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly for any distinct arrangements in this scenario. As I said, we do not believe that it will come to that.

European Council

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Lord for those interesting comments.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister accept my congratulations on two points? The first is the stance that the Government have taken on Iran, bilaterally with the President of the United States and at the European Council. Does she not find it a trifle odd that while we are preparing to leave the European Union our closest allies in this matter, which affects our national security, are indeed the main members of the European Union? Will she confirm that in Washington, the three countries that are so concerned—France, Germany and Britain—are working very closely to persuade Congressmen on the Hill not to move that dangerous step closer to another dispute in the Middle East?

The second congratulation is on the Prime Minister having ignored the letter that she received from some of her colleagues—I noticed that there was no reference to it— suggesting that she should leave the negotiations if there was not agreement on trade straightaway, which there has not been. Does that not demonstrate that it really is high time for the Government to put on the table in black and white what the consequences of leaving without a deal would be? Would that not be the best course and would it not bring it home to people, right across the European Union, that this option needs to be rejected?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Lord for his congratulations. They do not happen very often so I shall attempt to respond positively. I do not think it odd at all that our closest allies in relation to Iran are France and Germany. We are an international, global country and we have strong relationships across the world. Our three countries are all committed to the Iran deal, and it is working. The International Atomic Energy Agency has released eight reports on Iran’s nuclear programme since the implementation day of the joint comprehensive plan, all of which confirmed that Iran is fulfilling its obligations under the deal. The Prime Minister could not have been stronger in making that message clear and we were very pleased that the Council built on the joint statement made last week by the Prime Minister, Chancellor Merkel and President Macron, which reiterated our firm commitment to the nuclear deal. We will continue to support that.

In relation to the noble Lord’s second question, as I said in response to my noble friend Lord Lamont, the highest probability is that we will get a good deal but it is only right that we prepare for a no-deal situation. What we cannot and will not do is to publish information which will undermine our ability to negotiate that best deal for Britain.

Crown Dependencies

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

As I indicated to the noble Lord, the UK Government are engaged in close discussions with the Crown dependencies. There are formal quarterly meetings, specifically with the Chief Ministers of Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man, attended, as I said, by the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State. A series of technical round tables has been organised with the Crown dependencies. The issue which the noble Lord raises is one of many of significance to the Crown dependencies, and these technical issues indeed include the area of agriculture and fisheries, where issues are being identified and this close pattern of engagement is being pursued. The Crown dependencies have been very positive about that level of engagement.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister perhaps say something about substance rather than procedure? What status in trade are the Government hoping to negotiate in Brussels on behalf of the Crown dependencies? Presumably they are not allowed to negotiate directly themselves. What status will that be? Will it be remaining in the customs union, remaining in the single market, none of the above and something I have not yet thought of, or what?

[Baroness Goldie]

Well, we shall have to see. I am sure that the objectives of these close engagements and good discussions are precisely the kinds of issues to which the noble Lord refers and are very much to the forefront of the minds of the Minister and the Crown dependencies. That will of course form part of our overall approach to the negotiations.

Brexit: Triggering Article 50

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Wednesday 29th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we are looking for a new, deep and special relationship with the EU and we believe it will be a very fruitful relationship. In terms of other opportunities, we are looking for excellent trade agreements with countries across the world. We have fantastic bilateral agreements with countries across the world. We are looking to be a global nation.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Not at all. We have made it very clear that we share the same values and we want to see them remain strong. That is one of the things that we have in common and one of the things that will ensure that we continue to have a strong relationship with our European counterparts.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords, I am one of those who think that today is a pretty sad day but I also do not think it is a day to carp or criticise. The Prime Minister and the Government are setting off down a road which can best be described as a magical mystery tour, the destination of which they have no clue—any more than the rest of us do. But I wish them well in this thing, and I would like to put two questions. First, while I very much welcome the very strong emphasis the Government have put on the mutual benefit of maintaining and, indeed, strengthening the co-operation against all forms of international crime, can the Leader say by what process of adjudication any disputes on those matters will be resolved? Secondly, yesterday the Prime Minister urged us to,

“get out into the world”.

Can the Leader give us one example of circumstances where we are prevented from doing that by our present membership of the European Union?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

On the latter point, obviously we will be looking to negotiate new free trade agreements with countries across the world. On the noble Lord’s first point, that will be a matter for negotiations.

European Council

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with the concerns of the noble Lord. We will certainly be engaging closely with our partners. The summit next year that I mentioned will be focused on tackling serious and organised crime, anti-corruption and cybersecurity, and will include Prime Ministers and Foreign and Economic Ministers from the west Balkans and key partners such as France, Germany, Italy, Austria and the EU institutions. We are also providing a range of support to the region, including more law enforcement resources to tackle organised crime groups with links to the western Balkans, additional embassy staff, UK-led capacity building to build resilience to serious and organised crime in the region, and strategic communications expertise to the EU institutions to counter disinformation campaigns in the region. It is an issue that we take extremely seriously and that the Prime Minister led on in this Council meeting.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

I very much welcome what was said about supporting the negotiations with Japan and other trade negotiations that the EU is conducting. I welcome also the realism that the Prime Minister has shown in saying that those agreements when concluded will provide a good basis for our own agreements when we are outside the EU. However, where does that leave the argument that we have to leave the EU to have these benefits? Secondly, in the western Balkans there is again a very welcome development. Will the noble Baroness confirm that our co-operation will continue even if, as is very likely, the EU decides in June to co-ordinate its activity in the western Balkans through an operational headquarters in Brussels?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

On the first part of the noble Lord’s question, we are leaving the EU. That is the decision that has been made, and we will now work with our European partners to come to the best deal that we can between us. We will want excellent trade agreements with other countries. We continue to support the EU in ensuring that its economy as a whole improves, but want the best deals with our partners. We are absolutely committed to continuing to work with our European partners in the west Balkans. As the noble Lord said, it is extremely important to all our security.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, the Bill we are debating tonight is short but certainly not sweet—at least for a person like myself who voted last June to remain in the European Union. In her Lancaster House speech, the Prime Minister exhorted us to believe that leaving the European Union leads towards a brighter future for our children and our grandchildren. I am sorry to disappoint the Prime Minister, but neither I, nor my children, nor my grandchildren believe that. It remains my view that we will be less prosperous, less secure and less influential in the world than we would have been had we decided to stay in the EU. But that was not the view taken by the majority of those who voted, and I accept, as I have since 24 June, that it would not be proper or correct for this House to frustrate the triggering of Article 50. I only wish that the ardent supporters of Brexit, some of them in this House, would cease denigrating and trying to suppress the views of those who think as I do. That surely is as undemocratic an approach as you can get.

While the Lancaster House speech and the White Paper which followed it have lifted a small part of the veil in which the Government have shrouded their policy since the referendum, we have not yet seen more than a glimpse of its ankle, and we have not been given a single metric or impact assessment on the choices the Government have already made and are preparing to make more of. Not a figure has emerged setting out the various options and costing them as those published last March, from which the new Government have resiled, are no longer valid. There has been no word about the shape of the new immigration regime, the altar on which our membership of the single market is to be sacrificed, and no hint of how the Government propose to sustain the common travel area with Ireland and to avoid the reimposition of border controls on goods moving between Northern Ireland and the Republic. The Government assure us that they have been conducting detailed studies of all these matters, and on every part of the economy, but they have not shown us the results of any of those studies—perhaps the results are just too alarming to be shown. We are really being asked to buy a pig in a poke.

What can one say about the choices the Government have made already? It was surely unwise to make a pre-emptive decision to leave the single market before we had any idea of what alternatives might be negotiable. Issues relating to freedom of movement are under great stress at the moment within the European Union. Might it not have been better to see how much flexibility could be available in 18 months’ time, rather than to decide now that we were not going to even look for that flexibility? As for the customs union, if our partners can understand what the Government said in the White Paper, they are better at reading runes than I am.

It is helpful that the Government have now begun to face up to the fact that we need a dispute settlement procedure as part of our new partnership—although they have not, I have to say, got very far. It is truly staggering that a Government who accept the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, of the International Criminal Court, of the European Court of Human Rights, of the dispute settlement procedures of the World Trade Organization and of the Law of the Sea should have conceived such a horror of the European Court of Justice, despite the fact that the court has often in the last 44 years handed down judgments of great benefit to this country, such as striking down restrictive practices and dealing with illegal state aid and non-tariff barriers to trade. Of course it has made judgments during that time which we did not like—but so, of course, does our own Supreme Court, as the Government have discovered quite recently.

Faced with this paucity of information and this degree of obfuscation, what can and should we do when we look at the Bill in detail? The most important thing is to ensure that, when a deal is struck, or when it is clear that one cannot be struck, both Houses are seized of the outcome in a timely manner, enabling them to make decisions and to avoid that cliff edge which the Prime Minister, quite rightly, wishes to avoid. Some assurances have been given to this effect in the other place, but they are fairly vague and are no doubt capable of any amount of subsequent misleading description and use. Provisions on this point clearly need to go into the Bill—and, since the Government have conceded the principle, it should not be too difficult to do that.

I have one concluding thought. The UK needs to concentrate on the positive aspects of its vision for a new partnership to establish that prospect of mutual benefit without which any hope of a positive outcome for negotiations will simply not materialise. The Government have begun to do this on foreign policy and European security, on scientific co-operation and on law enforcement and internal security—but so far in far too tentative and hesitant a way. We need to face outwards, towards our past and future partners, not backwards towards those who reject everything about the European Union. Our face needs to be a smiling and not a snarling one—particularly to the 3 million citizens from other European countries who live and work here.

Informal European Council

Lord Hannay of Chiswick Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Prime Minister has been very clear that we believe the ban is divisive and wrong and that it is absolutely not a policy that we would pursue. She had a good conversation with Chancellor Merkel which covered a whole range of issues.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, when the Prime Minister introduced her White Paper and Lancaster House speech—the Statement said that it was welcomed, particularly the reference to a new partnership, which I think is a very good label to give it—did her colleagues indicate whether they would start negotiating on the new partnership as soon as Article 50 is triggered, or do they still hold to the Commission’s point of view that the negotiations on divorce have to come first and that the other negotiation can only be consecutive? Secondly, did she find that all 27 of her colleagues agreed with the view held by herself and the Home Secretary that President Trump’s travel ban is not only wrong but also extraordinarily likely to lead to increased radicalisation in Muslim countries, which can only put European countries at greater risk?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said in the Statement, the Prime Minister has said that our European partners want to get on with the negotiations. We all want to move on so that we can come to a good deal. As I have also said, we have been very clear that we believe the ban is divisive and wrong.