Brexit: Aerospace and Automotive Industries

Debate between Lord Foster of Bath and Lord Prior of Brampton

Tuesday 14th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, clearly, trading with the countries of the European Union is extremely important. What we are discussing are the terms of that trade. The Prime Minister has made it very clear that she hopes to negotiate a deal that means trade that is as free and frictionless as possible. On that basis, there is a very good outlook for both industries.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, the Vehicle Certification Agency is our national approval authority for new road vehicles and it is involved with EU policy formulation. Its approval certificates are recognised without question throughout the EU, bringing enormous access benefits to our vehicle manufacturers. What future do the Government see for the VCA’s activities post Brexit and what do the car manufacturers think about that?

Reporting on Payment Practices and Performance Regulations 2017

Debate between Lord Foster of Bath and Lord Prior of Brampton

Thursday 9th March 2017 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Prior of Brampton) (Con)]

My Lords, the purpose of these regulations is to implement a requirement on large businesses to report on their practices and performance in paying suppliers. The first instrument on payment practices applies the requirement to large companies, while the second applies the requirement to large limited liability partnerships.

Late payment can be a significant issue for businesses, especially smaller suppliers. It is estimated that small and medium-sized businesses are owed £26 billion in late payments. This Government have several measures in place to tackle late payment. As well as the reporting requirement, which I will talk about in more detail, the Government are also currently recruiting the small business commissioner, which noble Lords discussed in this House in the last Session.

Alongside other measures, there is also the Government’s support for the Prompt Payment Code, which is an industry-led code of conduct. The code sets standards for payment practice, and the Government are committed to signing up strategic suppliers to the code. Small and medium-sized businesses often lack information about the larger businesses they supply. They have no choice but to take it on faith that they will be paid in line with the agreed terms and conditions. There are sometimes calls in the House for more prescriptive measures to support suppliers. However, in response to the 2013 discussion paper on options for tackling late payment, businesses said that they did not want to see government constraining their freedom of contract. Instead, the reporting requirement focuses on transparency.

We are not therefore banning business practices, or unduly interfering in customer- supplier relationships, but we want suppliers to have the information they need to make good business decisions, and to encourage a culture change in payment practices. When we consider new obligations such as these, we have to be careful to balance the burden on large business with the benefit to small business. That is why we have taken longer to implement this requirement than we estimated at the time of the debates on the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Act 2015. This is the legislation enabling us to make the regulations before us today. We have taken time to ensure the requirement works in practice for large businesses, so that we can be confident that the resulting data will be robust and helpful for small businesses.

In our recently published impact assessment, we estimated the annual net cost to business at £17.7 million. That sounds like a large number—indeed, it is—but it has to be considered against the potential benefits to businesses that a reduction in late payment could bring. Even a small reduction in late payment could have a significant impact, especially for small suppliers, and especially for those for whom cash flow is of the essence. We have continued to engage with stakeholders following the public consultation on the policy. My officials have had an ongoing dialogue with stakeholders across different sectors on a wide variety of topics related to the reporting requirement. They have been listening to businesses, representative bodies and other stakeholders to make sure we get the balance right between the burden on large business and the benefits to small businesses. This has also included independent research commissioned to provide additional evidence for the impact assessment and user research to inform the development of the web service.

I now turn to the detail of the regulations. They implement an obligation on large businesses to publish information about a number of metrics relating to their payment practices. Businesses will need to report on these metrics for their first financial year, starting once the regulations come into force on 6 April 2017. Each reporting business will need to publish information twice each financial year. To ensure the information is up to date and relevant, it must be published within 30 days of the end of the reporting period. The metrics include three types of information. They require businesses to publish statistics about their payment performance, including the average time taken to pay and the percentage of invoices paid in 30 days or fewer, between 31 and 60 days, and later than 60 days. They require businesses to give narrative statements about the business’s standard payment terms and dispute resolution processes. They also require businesses to state whether the business’s payment practices and policies provide for supply-chain finance, e-invoicing and deductions for being on a supplier’s list.

These metrics were the subject of the 2014-15 consultation. We received diverse feedback about certain points and have sought to find a balance between the needs of small and large business. Specifically, we cannot require businesses to report on all pay-to-stay practices. The House was notified of this in a Written Ministerial Statement in December 2016. The metrics of interest owed and paid are not included in these regulations, but we will learn from the public sector’s introduction of a similar metric of interest owed from later this month.

The regulations require businesses to report on any deductions from payments to suppliers as a charge to remain on a supplier’s list. A broader metric to cover more types of pay-to-stay practices will be kept under review. Businesses will be required to publish their reports on a government web service and, as soon as the business publishes it, the information will be available to suppliers. The web service is being developed with input from users of the service and will be available from April 2017. To ensure that it is accurate, the information published must be approved by a named director. This will help late payment become a reputational issue. The public nature of the reporting will motivate businesses to comply. However, it is a criminal offence if a business fails to publish a report, or publishes false or misleading information.

On conviction, the business, directors or, in the case of false statement, the individual will be liable for a fine. The reporting requirement will increase transparency, making it easier for suppliers to find information about large businesses’ payment practices and performance. The improved transparency will help suppliers make better-informed business decisions and encourage large purchasers to make prompt payment. The public nature of the data will highlight good payment practice, while also shining a light on poor practice that is potentially damaging and unfair to suppliers. This measure is an important step towards a change in business culture to one where late payment is considered a reputational issue and prompt payment is valued by all sizes of business. I commend these regulations to the Committee.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, I begin by saying how welcome these proposals are, as developed from the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Act 2015. The duty to report, as the Minister said, is one in a package of measures that begins to address a problem that has existed for far too long around late payment to small businesses. As the Minister said, we have 5.5 million small businesses in this country and it is estimated that, between them, they are owed over £26 billion. The impact this has on them is incalculable. It has been estimated by a number of people that implementation of these measures—and further measures, which I will touch on in a second—could prevent the death of about 50,000 businesses per year.

The other measures that I welcome include the Prompt Payment Code, to which we have already heard reference, and there are further measures that I hope will be adopted, which are referred to within the corporate governance Green Paper. Reference is made, for example, to one board member having responsibility for representing the views of small businesses within the supply chain. I welcome, too, the increased transparency about payment in other regards, as also referred to in that Green Paper, but that is probably not directly relevant to today’s debate.

Having said that I support these proposals, I will confine my remarks to asking a few short questions. First, in reference to the duty to report, it remains unclear who is responsible for verifying the statistics contained in the report. The Minister has said—and it is clearly explained in the Explanatory Memorandum—that the figures must be approved by a named director of the company. However, as I suspect the Minister might accept, that looks rather like the company is marking its own homework. Will the Minister explain what opportunities there would be for people concerned about the statistics to draw attention to that, and to whom would they do so? Given that failure to report is a criminal offence, it is not at all clear whether failure to report accurately would be deemed a criminal offence and what the penalties would be. Again, I would be grateful for clarification on that matter.

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[Lord Prior of Brampton]

I thank both noble Lords for their broad support for the general thrust of this statutory instrument.

Potentially misleading or inaccurate information is a criminal offence punishable with a fine. Who is responsible for verifying the data? Our view is that the public nature of the data will ensure their accuracy. Businesses can raise their concerns directly with BEIS or the Small Business Commissioner. The whole thrust of this instrument is culture change. It is the reputational damage that firms will suffer, rather than the prospect of a criminal conviction, that will have the biggest impact on changing behaviour.

In terms of the scope and the companies caught by this, the definition of a large business for the purpose of having to make the disclosures is two of the following three: an annual turnover of £36 million; a balance sheet total of £18 million—I assume that that means net assets; and 250 employees. The noble Lord asked about a subsidiary of an overseas company—it could be a subsidiary of a domestic company, for that matter. As I understand it, this applies to companies or LLPs that are incorporated in this country. So I do not think that a small company over here that is a subsidiary in the US is captured by the instrument, but I will double-check that.

The noble Lord said that payment terms in the US were more typically 120 days rather than net monthly or 30 days but I am not sure that that is necessarily right. Also, we should be clear that in some big contracting industries, where there is delayed payment and that is negotiated upfront by suppliers, that is entirely legitimate. In their disclosures, big companies are perfectly entitled to say in their narrative that in their industry, a different payment schedule is typical. Where you have a long-term contract, which requires a different kind of financing, again, that can be disclosed and explained, and it will be perfectly legitimate. We are not saying that a longer period is necessarily worse than a short one; it very much depends on the industry. What is important is the transparency and a narrative around it.

Both noble Lords spoke about the appointment of the Small Business Commissioner. I understand that we will be appointing that individual during 2017. We launched the recruitment campaign on 12 February, with the intention of appointing later on in the year.

[Lord Foster of Bath]

Since it has been made public that the commissioner will start work in October this year, I hope that it will be some time in the course of this year, or there will be a difficulty.

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

I just wanted to reassure the noble Lord that the process has started. As it started in February, that appointment will follow in due course.

I thank noble Lords for their contribution to the debate. The importance of transparency is clear. One economic reason that makes this statutory instrument so important is that for many small, particularly growing, companies, cash flow, rather than profit, is critical. Delayed payment terms can seriously undermine the ability of small companies to grow. I think that all parties in the Committee are apprised of that.

Opel-Vauxhall: Sale to PSA Group

Debate between Lord Foster of Bath and Lord Prior of Brampton

Monday 6th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

I thank the noble Lord for those questions. To pick them up in turn, Carlos Tavares, the chief executive of PSA, has given assurances that he is keen to see this business develop and grow. He made the point that since becoming chief executive of PSA, he has not closed a single plant.

Regarding future models, post the Astra at Ellesmere Port, clearly, we will have to compete with other factories within the PSA group, as would have been the case had it remained part of General Motors. We are all very confident that we have the competitiveness and effective abilities, and the quality and brand at Ellesmere Port and Luton, to compete on a fair basis with any plant in Europe. PSA is absolutely committed to the Astra brand. There will be no need for a new model post 2020-21 for Ellesmere Port, and the Navara will continue to be produced at the Luton factory for longer still.

The noble Lord is absolutely right about the supply chain: it was an issue with Nissan as well as PSA. Carlos Tavares made the point that there are opportunities and risks on leaving the European Union. One of the opportunities will be to make the new models in the UK more of a sterling player, as the noble Lord put it. That means having a higher proportion of sterling-sourced components going into the Astra or indeed into any new model. We are committed to working with the automotive sector to try to boost the supply chain in the UK to ensure that more sterling-based components go into these cars.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, Vauxhall is our longest surviving car maker and has some of the most efficient plants in Europe. Like others, we commend the workforce for having achieved that.

I want to pursue one issue with the Minister. He will be aware that some 75% of the Astra’s components come from continental Europe, and that the supply chain stretches right across the free market and the customs union. Components travel across borders without any difficulty whatever. However, surely the imposition of a hard Brexit, which the Government are pursuing, could lead to tariffs, quotas and the end of the free movement of components across borders. That would place our plants at a real disadvantage.

In a climate in which we know that Nissan is now unsure about its long-term commitment to the UK, BMW is thinking of making the quintessentially British Mini in Germany, and we can get no long-term guarantees from the new owners of Vauxhall, should not the Government acknowledge that the unnecessary pursuit of a hard Brexit is putting the revival of our British car industry in jeopardy?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

It is worth making the point that this transaction between General Motors and PSA is as a result not of Brexit but of a longer-term strategy on the part of GM, and, of course, GM is becoming a shareholder in PSA. This is not a Brexit-related issue. The noble Lord is laughing but this transaction has not come about because of Brexit.

The noble Lord says that the Government are pursuing a hard Brexit. We must get the terminology right. The Government are not pursuing a hard Brexit. The Prime Minister has made it absolutely clear that we are trying to negotiate a free trade agreement with the European Union that is as friction free as possible. That is the Government’s objective. Carlos Tavares, the chief executive of PSA, has said that there are opportunities whether it is a soft Brexit or a hard Brexit.

The noble Lord’s point about the supply chain is important. Given that it is so integrated across Europe, if there are tariffs or non-tariff barriers and more inspections, conformities and the like, that will disrupt the supply chain. That is why we are keen to negotiate a relationship that is as friction free as possible.

Economic Growth (Regulatory Functions) Order 2017

Debate between Lord Foster of Bath and Lord Prior of Brampton

Tuesday 28th February 2017 Grand Committee

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

May I finish off on a regulator that is not covered by BEIS, but is important none the less—the Care Quality Commission? We found there that the leading indicators of performance, whether you measure it in terms of patient safety, hitting waiting time targets or patient satisfaction, were around staff engagement, such as whether doctors and nurses enjoyed working in the hospital. A junior doctors survey done by the GMC was probably the single most predictive of all the indicators. Culture is hugely important.

The noble Lord referred to a duty to communicate, which plays into the point about culture. Putting that obligation to communicate on to regulators is important. In a sense, what we are trying to do by having a duty to promote growth is to change the culture and outlook of regulators. As the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said, they are not there to hit the target but miss the point —how often does that lead to unintended consequences? For example, we hit the waiting time target in an A&E department but the patient died. That is the kind of absurdity we can get into when targets become—

[Lord Foster of Bath]

I think that we are all singing from the same hymn sheet in our speeches, but the documents before us say something rather different. They talk of the sums of money that it is anticipated will be achieved by this. I entirely accept that the Northern Lighthouse Board is there to provide safety. Clearly, if it switched off the lights in all its lighthouses, ships would crash, the economy would be in difficulty and so on. Presumably, it could spend a lot of money and put up more lights and sirens and have more people sailing around rocky outcrops warning people to stay away, and there may be some more savings in that. That is all common sense. But the way in which it has been enumerated is about having a target but missing the cultural point that the Minister is rightly talking about. The papers do not talk about the culture.

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

One way to change the culture is to change the message. We are not setting specific targets for regulators. The purpose is to increase transparency, which I will talk about a little. I qualify it as “intelligent transparency”. If we can put people in the position of making intelligent decisions and provide them with useful information, in my book that is the best form of regulation.

We are all agreed on the objectives and outcomes that we want from this. I see the exercise as trying to get a cultural shift in the behaviour of regulators. Both noble Lords have given examples of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. The last thing that we want is to encourage bad behaviour by pursuing regulation to the letter and achieving the opposite of what we want to. On one level, we are in violent agreement and, on another, we are clearly not. However, some important points have been raised and I would like to reflect on them and write to noble Lords on those issues.

To conclude, I would like to read out a few notes, just to get them on the record and perhaps explain a little better what I have just said. The importance of extending the scope of the business impact target is clear. Businesses consistently tell the Government that the actions of regulators are as important as the content of legislation in determining their experience of regulation. That has to be true. It is the way we interpret laws and decide whether they are helpful or not. For example, in giving up broadband at home I want to get through to BT to cancel my existing contract. Can I get through to BT? Can I hell. No one will answer the phone. It is about customer service. Funnily enough, having spoken briefly to the Intellectual Property Office yesterday, I think that it has a client-friendly attitude, which is the kind of attitude that we want from regulators.

The rationale for applying the growth duty is also clear. While there is already a great deal of good, proportionate and effective regulation, evidence suggests that some regulators fail to take sufficient account of the economic consequence of their actions and place unnecessary burdens on businesses. I think that the noble Lord wanted some examples of regulators that fall into that trap. We will certainly write to him on that.

Some regulators consider the impact of their actions on economic growth. It cannot be wrong to do that. If we said that regulators should not take into account economic growth, we would be shot at, quite rightly, from all sides. Many regulators think that they are unable to take account of growth because they do not have a statutory requirement to do so. That tells you something about the psychology of some regulators, frankly. They have to be told that economic growth matters. You would not think that you would need to be told that. We need to write to the noble Lord on that point. The new duty will help to bring all regulators up to the same high standard.

The growth duty will help regulators to carry out their functions in a way that is conducive to economic growth and will ensure that regulatory action is taken only when needed and that any action that is taken is proportionate. Again, the key words are “accountable”, “transparent” and “proportionate”. It will encourage regulators to develop more mature and productive relationships with the sectors and businesses that they regulate, driving up the accountability of regulators to the business community.

I conclude by saying that it is very easy to knock the regulators. Few people will stand up for regulators. But in some of the Brexit debates that we have had, when you look at the performance of the British regulators—for example, the EMA, the MHRA, the CAA or in the nuclear world—they are universally respected throughout Europe. Our regulators are highly respected and in the main they do an outstanding job. All we are trying to do in this legislation is to tilt the culture a little further towards practicality, transparency, productivity and growth.

Industrial Strategy: Engagement

Debate between Lord Foster of Bath and Lord Prior of Brampton

Monday 27th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

It is interesting that only 15% of women graduate in this subject. In the case of medicine, for example, the figure is now well over 50% and is nearly 60%. It is a very good question. Interestingly, I went to Rolls-Royce last week and met a number of apprentices there, some of whom are doing degree-level apprenticeships. That may be one way of increasing the number of women going into this area. It has been a problem for many years and we are only in the foothills of cracking it.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that share ownership can provide the motivation to help employees and managers deliver for their companies and, of course, deliver the industrial strategy? If he does, what more can the Government do to promote such share ownership?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

Share ownership can be a part of this but engagement of people in their workplace goes much deeper and is much more of a day-to-day issue than share ownership or board directors and the like. John Lewis and the mutuals have demonstrated the value of mutuality and ownership, so this does have a part to play. However, it is only part of a much bigger picture.

Brexit: Consumer Rights Policy

Debate between Lord Foster of Bath and Lord Prior of Brampton

Thursday 9th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

Of course it will emerge over the next two years. It would be absurd for me to stand here to explain where all the issues that might arise over the next two years will arise. As the Prime Minister has said, the Government will keep Parliament fully informed of developments throughout the next two years.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, the EU is currently planning the digital content directive, which will give EU-wide protection to consumers on digital content. Unfortunately, the current draft conflicts with UK consumer rights legislation. Since, after we leave, we will have to continue to sell into the EU, can the Minister assure us that the Government are putting all their resources into getting this right, to end the current legal uncertainty?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

I can assure the noble Lord that we are doing everything we can to clarify the situation. He mentioned the consumer rights legislation. The Consumer Rights Act is generally recognised by consumers here as an extremely good piece of legislation, and we will be working to have as much of a free market within Europe as we can.

Economy: Productivity

Debate between Lord Foster of Bath and Lord Prior of Brampton

Wednesday 8th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

The right reverend Prelate makes an important point. Not only is mental ill health a disaster for people individually, it also affects the productivity of the whole workforce. It is hard to answer the question because companies vary so much. There are some great employers who do an excellent job of looking after the well-being of their employees, and there are some who, as we know, do a rotten job. I would like to take away the question the right reverend Prelate asked and write to him in more detail.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Foster of Bath]

My Lords, business investment in training is vital to improved productivity. We know that the apprenticeship levy was designed to help in that, yet the Government have missed the January deadline for setting up the online service and the IFS says that it is going to give poor value for money. How is business going to benefit when it is having to cope with this mismanagement of the apprenticeship levy by the Government?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, the apprenticeship levy is designed to produce another 3 million apprentices over the next four or five years, which will mark a transformation in the number of apprentices we have in this country. The noble Lord referred to the online service. I shall have to investigate that and write to him.

Brexit: Single Market and Workers’ Rights

Debate between Lord Foster of Bath and Lord Prior of Brampton

Monday 16th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, it would be a huge misjudgment and mistake for any British Government to think that eroding the rights of UK workers and making them less engaged and productive would contribute in any way to us being more competitive. In the same way that we want to have low tax rates, we want to have a fully engaged and well-trained workforce.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, as the Minister confirmed, the Prime Minister has agreed that all workers’ rights enshrined in EU law will be transferred into UK law—but then “where practical” was added. Which workers’ rights cannot be practically transferred into UK law?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

Off the cuff, I cannot think of any rights that would fall into the area of “not practical”. The Prime Minister went further: she is committed, as is our whole industrial strategy, to bringing decent, well-paid, skilled jobs to Britain, including to many parts of the country where they have been sadly depleted over many years.