Trade Bill

Lord Foster of Bath Excerpts

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hooper (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise for being tail-end Charlie in this discussion—at least, I hope I am. I agree that this is a very important group of amendments. I shall concentrate particularly on Amendment 39 because that is the overarching amendment giving mutual recognition of qualifications, which has been so important for frictionless commercial activities and relationships throughout our membership of the European Union. I trust and hope that the mutual recognition and—dare I say it?—harmonisation to some extent of professional qualifications will be able to continue, to give the continuity to which my noble friend Lord Lansley referred, but also, for example, in the field of education, where university qualifications and degrees have been based on mutual recognition of qualifications and the ability to work in professional fields in more than one country.

My own interest in this is that as a solicitor I went to work in Paris in 1973, a year after we joined the European Community. Although I did not need a carte de travail—a work permit—at that stage, I still needed a carte de séjour, but that was progress. There have always been particular difficulties for the legal profession simply because of the difference between the common-law system and the civil law system. That has led to a different approach to our understanding of what we have been trying to do within the European Community throughout our membership.

I may not be up to speed on all the detail. There may have been discussions, and possibly solutions, about continuing the recognition of professional qualifications, but I am not aware of them. I am surprised that the Law Society, for example, has not provided any briefing in this respect—at least not to me. Still, I would like to hear what the Minister has to say about this. At the next stage of the Bill I would hope that we could be given more certainty about what may happen in future. I am curtailing my remarks because it is a late hour, but I feel that this would be so important, not only to British and Scottish lawyers—I look to my noble friend Lady McIntosh in this respect—but to all the European Union lawyers who have set up offices and are operating in London and other parts of the country, making our commercial activities ever more possible.

Perhaps, as a sort of PS, I might refer to Amendment 48 and the tripartite agreement. I am not sure how this applies to polo ponies. As your Lordships will know, I take a great interest in Latin America and Argentina. Polo ponies are not only from South America and the UK; they have passage rights within the EU. I do not think the tripartite agreement itself applies to polo ponies but I hope that any consideration of this element of the debate could include that important aspect.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper, hoped that she was tail-end Charlie, and I apologise for depriving her of the appellation. In introducing this group of amendments, the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, described them as being about the smooth organisation of business post Brexit, while my noble friend Lord Fox described them as the necessary day-to-day plumbing of post-Brexit life. As we have heard, the amendments cover a wide range of issues, including mutual recognition, not least of qualifications, but also seeking a way to have the maximum continued relationship with many EU bodies, expert groups, agencies and so on. In that regard, Amendment 70 is perhaps the most comprehensive. I share the view of the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, that it is of mutual benefit to ourselves and the European Union if we can find ways of staying as close as possible to many of those bodies. If we fail to do so, there will be some serious difficulties. I believe we need to take positive steps, as is suggested in Amendment 70, for instance, to achieve that close working relationship. If we do not do that, I believe there will be very significant problems.

To illustrate that very briefly, I will touch on two of the bodies that are referred to in Amendment 70: the Body of European Regulators for Electronic Communications—BEREC—and the European Regulators Group for Audiovisual Media Services, or ERGA. It is worth remembering that the telecoms industry in this country has revenues of something like £40 billion a year and our broadcasting industry is probably one of the best in the world; both are critical to the UK’s economy and their success depends to a large extent on close co-operation with the EU 27 countries. That is because, in the case of the telecoms industry, for instance, many of the bodies regulated by our own regulator, Ofcom, are members of subsidiaries which operate in many of those other countries—Virgin Media, Vodafone, Three and Telefónica are very good examples. In broadcasting, we have our own domestic channels, but Ofcom also acts as host to something like 500 channels which are not shown in the UK, but are regulated here and shown in other countries. Therefore, it is very important that our regulator continues to work in a way that allows close alignment with the regulations that will apply across Europe. That means having close involvement with those two bodies, BEREC and ERGA.

As such, my questions for the Minister are about how that will be achieved. I suspect he will reject most of the amendments in this group but that he will say it is important to have close relationships, as the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, said. It is worth reflecting that in the other place, the Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries, Margot James, said that Ofcom intended to “seek observer status” within BEREC. As I pointed out on another occasion, that is no longer possible following changes to BEREC’s regulations in December last year. For us to have observer status in BEREC, it would now be necessary for a formal agreement to be made between the UK and the European Union. I am not entirely convinced that that will be easy under the current arrangements without very active steps being taken by the Government.

In Grand Committee last week, the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Ashton of Hyde, said he was confident that Ofcom would be able to be part of BEREC. He said that during the transition period,

“the UK will no longer be a member state of the EU but, as is set out in the terms of the withdrawal agreement, common rules will remain in place. That is why we expect Ofcom to continue to participate in BEREC”.—[Official Report, 23/1/19; col. GC 96.]

That is what they are expecting, yet it is in stark contrast to what the withdrawal agreement actually says. In Article 128, it says—I will paraphrase—that with only one caveat, we cannot participate in decision-making or even attend meetings of expert groups or similar entities. The caveat says—again, I paraphrase—that UK representatives or experts may, upon invitation, exceptionally attend meetings or parts of meetings of bodies such as BEREC or ERGA, provided that either the discussion concerns the UK or UK residents or,

“the presence of the United Kingdom is necessary and in the interest of the Union”.

The noble Lord, Lord Ashton of Hyde, saw this as a green light, and declared that there was “every reason” the EU would want Ofcom on these bodies because,

“Ofcom is one of the leading telecoms regulators in Europe—if not the leading one. The interchange between Ofcom and other European regulators has been extremely beneficial … There is every reason to think that they would wish to continue that”.—[Official Report, 23/1/19; col. GC 97.]

That is not an interpretation of Article 128 which any rational person can give. It actually says that we can be involved only in a small way, in exceptional circumstances and when it is necessary, so I do not read Article 128 as meaning that we will easily be able to participate in that particular organisation. The same case could be made for all the other organisations which the Government may wish for us to continue to have close relationships with. My question for the Minister is simple: does he agree with my interpretation, or with his noble friend during the debate in Grand Committee? If he agrees with my interpretation of Article 128, are the Government willing to take the positive steps referred to—for example, in Amendment 70—to achieve that close working relationship which is so important?

Visas: Certificates of Sponsorship

Lord Foster of Bath Excerpts

Thursday 13th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the UK, more than perhaps many countries, absolutely welcomes the creative industries. We want artists to come here and to be able to perform. It is the reason why, as I tell the noble Lord, we are looking at how to work around this issue. It is a result not of border control but of no immigration controls on these routes, and we are therefore trying to work around it. It is nothing to do with Brexit.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, it is clear more generally that the rules around writers, artists and musicians coming to the United Kingdom are complex, opaque, very costly and damaging to our reputation as a cultural hub. Having abolished the UKVI’s arts and entertainment task force, which could have helped resolved these problems, will the Government now at least consider a system of direct contact with UKVI for artists and promoters, or an online update system so that they can check where quicker progress can be made and so that there are fewer errors?

Water Supplies (Developing World)

Lord Foster of Bath Excerpts

Wednesday 15th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD)]

After many years of campaigning on water, sanitation and hygiene, I am grateful for this opportunity to debate the topic. Far too many people in the world lack safe clean water. Globally, just short of a billion people struggle without access to it. That is more than the population of Europe. In places such as Zambia, Ethiopia, Tanzania and Mozambique, I have seen personally that when clean water is not available there are minimal opportunities for good health, gaining an education, looking after crops or animals, or developing a business. If a major part of the day is taken up with walking many miles to collect water, there is no time for a child to get an education, and no time for a parent to earn a living.

Similarly, far too many people do not have decent sanitation or hygiene provision. The figures are frightening. Whereas the number of those who lack safe water is dreadful, 2.6 billion people go without access to decent sanitation. That is twice the population of China. Without decent sanitation or hygiene, the chances of a healthy life are minimal. Diarrhoea is the biggest child killer in Africa. On that continent alone, almost a million children aged under five died from diarrhoea in 2008. Worldwide, some 1.3 million infants die as a result of diarrhoea every year. Ninety per cent. of those cases are down to inadequate sanitation, unsafe water or poor hygiene.

It is clear to me that one of the most important ways in which we can help the poorest people in the world is by providing support in the areas of water, sanitation and hygiene, collectively referred to as WASH. Many of the other targets of our aid provision—education, agriculture, business development and health—need, as a starting point, people to have access to decent water, sanitation and hygiene.

I have seen at first hand the impact that help with those facilities can make. I have seen, for example, a health clinic in the bush in Ethiopia that was almost deserted because of the improvements in the health of local people following the installation of water pumps in local villages. In many other places I have seen the impact of the excellent work done by the UK-based charity WaterAid. I have even done a bit of well building for it in Zambia.

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for introducing a debate on this important subject, on which I support him. I have to declare an interest: my father spent his entire professional career as a water engineer, building and maintaining water and sanitation projects both in the UK and in many countries abroad. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if we are to ensure the sustainability of projects in the developing world such as those provided by WaterAid, it is essential that community groups and church groups on the ground are trained to maintain the projects commenced by voluntary organisations and ensure their continuity?

[Mr Foster]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. Like me, she has probably seen examples of totally unsustainable aid development. In Zambia I once saw a brand-new fire engine that had been donated to Lusaka urban district council by another country. Within 24 hours nobody could use the fire engine, because its engine was designed to use a fuel that was not available in Zambia. I have seen video recorders provided by other countries with videotapes in a language that was not understood by the population. She is right: there is no point in installing a water pump without involving the villagers in learning how to maintain it and ensuring that they will be able to get parts for it. They can possibly even go further by making a small charge for the water from the pump, so that there can be paid attendants to ensure that it is well looked after and serviced, and the project is sustainable. I agree that involving local people is critical.

As I said, I have seen some excellent work by WaterAid, but many other charities such as Tearfund and Pump Aid work in the field and deserve our praise. Given the importance of that aspect of the UK’s aid work, I was pleased by the Government’s promise in the coalition agreement, which stated:

“A key aim of our aid is to make sure everyone gets access to the basics: clean water, sanitation, healthcare and education.”

Those words are encouraging, but delivering that aim will not be easy.

One of the United Nations millennium development goals is to halve, by 2015, the proportion of the world’s population without sustainable access to safe drinking water and basic sanitation. Sadly, that goal is not going to be met. According to a UN report this year, the number missing out on proper sanitation will actually grow to 2.7 billion by 2015, if current trends continue. Although the safe water target is on track globally, there are parts of the world where it will be missed by miles, not least in sub-Saharan Africa, where it is predicted that 350 million people will remain without access to safe water.

The UN report says:

“the safety of water supplies remains a challenge and urgently needs to be addressed.”

That warning becomes even more pressing in the context of climate change. The problem is not just hotter weather, causing more frequent droughts that in turn limit access to water. Climate change also disrupts weather patterns, resulting in more frequent and powerful floods. Flooding leads to overflowing latrines, contaminated drinking water, waterborne diseases such as cholera and all kinds of other sanitation problems. The problem is extremes of water shortage and water excess, and that problem will intensify as climate change continues to progress. That is part of the reason why we need to do even more.

Rather than discuss the work of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change and his Department, however, I wish to concentrate on what I believe the Department for International Development can do. In recent years water and sanitation have not been given the priority that I would wish them to have. As a proportion of the UK’s aid budget, spending on water and sanitation has dwindled to just 2.2%, yet if I am right, and if water and sanitation are a vital plank in delivering all our aid goals, increasing the proportion of aid money dedicated to them would be money well spent. WaterAid made that argument powerfully in its recent submission to the Department—

--- Later in debate ---

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Miss Chloe Smith.)

[Mr Foster]

The argument was well made by WaterAid, and I hope the Minister has had a chance to read its submission. It considers each of the millennium development goals in turn in the context of WASH.

The first goal is to eradicate poverty. The World Health Organisation estimates that for every £1 invested in WASH, £8 is generated. That is because people save time on water collection, so they can be more productive, and WASH provision limits the number of days lost to illness.

The second goal is universal primary education, but children who are busy fetching water do not have time to go to school. The education of young girls ends up suffering the most, as that task more often than not falls to them. Sanitation also has a role to play in education. Dedicated girls’ toilets and menstrual hygiene facilities are important in making schools accessible for older girls.

DFID already knows that. It published a girls’ education strategy in January 2005, which prioritised

“non-education programmes such as clean water supply and sanitation facilities”.

There were two updates on implementing this strategy—the first in December 2006 and the second in July 2009—but when I asked the Library for further reports, I came away empty-handed. I therefore hope that the Minister can tell us what progress has been made in the year and a half since the second report was published, and that he confirms that the education of girls still an important part of his Department’s programme—which brings me neatly to MDG 3, which is to promote gender equality and empowerment.

Seventy-two per cent. of water fetching is done by women and girls. The task takes up an average of 14 hours a week—I have seen it take very much longer—and distracts girls and women from education and other potentially productive activity, such as building their economic independence. That is a significant barrier to gender equality.

The fourth goal is to reduce child mortality rates. As I have already said, diarrhoea is the biggest child killer in Africa, and 90% of cases are caused by inadequate sanitation, unsafe water and poor hygiene. Poor water quality will always undermine our investment in health. We would be horrified if our own local clinics had only dirty water coming out of the taps, or if the only water available for swallowing medication was contaminated.

Clean water is a fundamental part of health, including maternal health, which is the subject of MDG 5. WASH poverty causes the most significant health risks for women. A hygienic environment for childbirth and post-natal care will increase the survival chances of mothers and newborns.

Finally, MDG 6 is to combat HIV/AIDS and other diseases. HIV/AIDS patients require more water—up to five times as much as normal water consumers—because the most common diseases caused by AIDS are diarrhoeal and skin-related. My point is not that MDG 7 and the water and sanitation goals that I mentioned earlier should be prioritised at the expense of all the others. Rather, I believe that prioritising WASH will increase our chances of delivering on both the UK’s aid pledges and the MDGs. Until we fund WASH better, our investment in health and education will be less effective: the money will only ever achieve a part of what it could otherwise achieve.

Some progress has been made. Spending on WASH has gone up slightly in recent times, and we recently became part of the Sanitation and Water for All international global partnership. I look forward to a progress report. However, that will not be enough without more UK investment, so I am calling for two things. First, by reordering or rebalancing priorities, the Department should increase the sum spent on water, sanitation and hygiene to £600 million per annum. That would lift 100 million people out of water, sanitation and hygiene poverty.

[Fiona Bruce]

When Governments are looking to make a real difference, they invest in huge infrastructure projects. One of the challenges that they face in doing that—as opposed to what happens when charities invest smaller amounts in, say, village wells—is to ensure that the governance of those involved in partnering in those projects is sound. I would be interested in hearing the Minister’s response to that point, but does the hon. Gentleman agree?

[Mr Foster]

I entirely agree. Indeed, with the work that I have seen, particularly in Africa, I have been incredibly impressed by the way in which the various charities involved work with local communities, empowering and involving them, before ultimately moving away and leaving those local community organisations to run by themselves what has been put in place. That is important.

The hon. Lady talks about large sums, and that is the crucial point that I am trying to make. We welcome the increase in the aid budget—I will mention that briefly in my summation—but I am talking about reprioritising that money. For example, we have just increased the amount of money used to tackle malaria by £500 million. That may seem like an enormous sum going to do something important, but we know that diarrhoea causes more deaths than malaria, HIV/AIDS and tuberculosis combined, and as I said earlier, 90% of cases are caused by poor water, sanitation and hygiene. Therefore, the £600 million that I am arguing for to lift 100 million people out of that situation would be money well spent.

Secondly, water, sanitation and hygiene issues need to be mainstreamed into our wider development, public health and poverty reduction efforts. Again, that will require a big shift in thinking. We are still trying to break down the divide between sanitation and water, which is hard enough. For instance, DFID’s business plan promises that regular reports will be published on the number of sanitary facilities built or upgraded with DFID funding. Those extra data will no doubt be useful, but that promise indicates something of a silo mentality. We should not be thinking in terms of either water or sanitation. That is why I am asking for enough money to bring those things together.

However, I also think that we should go further. Such issues should become an important part of our strategies for dealing with infant mortality, maternal health and other global issues. Departmental advisers working on water and sanitation should be properly linked to colleagues working on health or poverty reduction. We should be breaking down the sectoral divides that still exist in the aid world. In all, we need a truly integrated approach—for instance, by ensuring that new schools are always built with suitable hygiene and sanitation facilities; or, as the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) suggested, by recognising the importance of transparency and accountability when a Government make decisions about major capital projects and services, such as their water systems. All that depends on facilitating and encouraging better co-operation between those in different sectors.

All of us in this House should be proud of the way in which our country contributes directly, and through international organisations, to help alleviate poverty and ill health in some of the poorest countries in the world. We should be proud of our commitment to increase further the money spent on aid. However, we need to ensure that we get the best possible value for that money. We need to ensure that the way in which it is spent provides the best possible route towards the reduction of poverty and ill health. That can best be done by rebalancing our aid budget in favour of water, sanitation and hygiene. A modest change in that area would reap huge rewards. I hope that my right hon. Friend the Minister agrees.