Sewage Pollution: Lakes and Rivers

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Lord Douglas-Miller

Tuesday 30th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

Regarding one of the issues the noble Baroness raises, we now have a lot more information available to us to look at. When we did not have storm overflow discharge information, we were ignorant of the amount of sewage that was going into our rivers, lakes and other waterways. If you look at the results for the bathing water test, for example, you can see a significant improvement over the last 15 years because of all the measures we put in.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Does my noble friend not recognise that we will make no progress on this matter until the directors of the water companies are held personally responsible and they are fined, instead of the consumer having to pick up the cost of the fine?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right, and that is why the Government have taken a number of actions recently to introduce restrictions on dividends and bonuses. I will take his point about personal responsibility back to the department.

Met Office: 2023 Temperatures

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Lord Douglas-Miller

Tuesday 6th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

Again, I will write to the right reverend Prelate in due course. I am doing rather a lot of writing today, am I not? This is a broad subject which I am slowly getting my head around.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, further to the question from the right reverend Prelate, is it not important that everyone realises that passing on the cost to consumers is not unfair—this is what is going to happen? In pursuing our policy, we have to be aware of this cost and phase it in over time. It is completely irresponsible to move ahead of people’s ability to pay.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I entirely agree with my noble friend. The communication on this transition has not been entirely well presented. A transition to a green energy future is going to cost a significant amount of money. I concur with my noble friend’s view on this.

Water Pollution

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Lord Douglas-Miller

Tuesday 16th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

When I watched the “Panorama” programme, I too was left with the distinct impression that something fishy was going on. However, it is standard practice for the initial and final categorisations to be different. This is because the initial categorisation is based on the information provided in an initial report. An Environment Agency officer will then gather evidence about the incident from a variety of sources, including attendants at the most significant pollution events. They will then assess this information and give a final categorisation that is based on the evidence rather than on the initial estimate.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, we made no progress on health and safety until we made company directors personally responsible. It is no good relying on a system of fines, because that just ends up putting up consumers’ bills. Now that my noble friend is in his new position, would he look at the prospect of holding boards to account for their performance in this regard? It would change the whole nature of their attitudes. On his point about something fishy going on, the point of this is that all the fish are dying.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

As the former chair of the Atlantic Salmon Trust, I have some sympathy with my noble friend’s view. The Government have legislated to introduce unlimited penalties on water companies. I appreciate my noble friend’s point, but we have made a start in the right direction. A much wider range of issues can now be applied by the Environment Agency to hold water companies to account. As I stated at the beginning, the Government are acutely aware that the position is not satisfactory and are looking into the matter, with all seriousness.