Housing Strategy

Lord Faulkner of Worcester Excerpts

Wednesday 24th March 2021 Grand Committee

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester [V]]

My Lords, I thank my most reverend friend the Archbishop of Canterbury for sponsoring this debate. My personal interest and passion in tackling homelessness and creating good homes for the people of our nation go far beyond the interests contained in the official register, to which I draw your Lordships’ attention. Alongside those, as the noble Lord, Lord Best, has indicated, I now chair the board of governors of the Church Commissioners, as deputy to my most reverend friend. I gladly confirm to your Lordships that the board welcomes the report, and indeed I am member of the group set up by the Church charged with overseeing its implementation.

Today we have no Bill to scrutinise, no complex Marshalled List of amendments to work through; what we have is something that runs far deeper, something that should underpin and equip us for such future legislation on the matter of housing as is brought forward to your Lordships’ House to determine. The five values for housing that the Archbishops’ Commission has set before us—sustainable, safe, stable, sociable and satisfying—have been implicit in much of the work I have engaged in over the years. But now we have them encapsulated in a simple and memorable form. Not least, they recognise that a home is far more than walls, roofs, bricks, tiles, glass and mortar. A home is somewhere we can belong.

Some years ago, I was speaking at the official opening of a building that housed several asylum and refugee support services in Birmingham. After those of us numbered among the moderately great and modestly good had all had our say, a young man from one of the charities based in the centre spoke. He said, “For all my time in this country so far, I have been your guest. Today, for the first time, I am the host and you are my guests, and that makes all the difference.” A home is not fully a home until it is a place where we can do what that young man did—offer hospitality and receive guests. That, I believe, is why the concept of home as a sociable place—the fourth of the core values set out in the commission’s report—is so important. I also learned that day in Birmingham that other cultures have much to teach us about the centrality of hospitality to human flourishing.

My most reverend friend referred in his opening speech to his predecessor William Temple. Temple was of course translated to Canterbury from York, having prior to that been Bishop of Manchester. So three of us speaking in Grand Committee today hold offices Temple once held and seek to inhabit that inheritance. Worn out by war and restricted by rationing, the Britain of the 1940s could all too easily have become a divided nation, but Temple and those with whom he worked had a greater vision of a society where all were provided with basics, such as healthcare and education, so that they might have space to flourish.

The mass social housing efforts of the post-war years demolished the slums of our cities, including the house where I was born, in order to replace them with something better. Not everything that was built proved a lasting success—things are rarely that straightforward —but huge progress was made in creating homes that could be lived in with dignity.

In a Britain reeling from 12 months of pandemic, a nation still seeking to redefine itself outside the European Union, we need to recover the boldness of Temple and his generation. We need to make decisions about housing not based on short-term political expediency—whatever might garner a few more votes in a marginal council ward or parliamentary constituency—but on a vision of the good society we wish to bequeath to our grandchildren. Recommendations set out in the commission’s report offer us a road map, if I may use that fashionable term, towards a nation housed for living in the 21st century.

I cannot let this opportunity pass without some reference to one piece of legislation currently before Parliament. It is my privilege to support the Manchester Cladiators group. Its members are leaseholders in high and medium-rise buildings who have been caught up in the aftermath of the dreadful tragedy of Grenfell Tower. The ramifications of that disaster reached much wider than merely to residents of high-rise blocks beset by poor cladding. The deaths at Grenfell have, like the deaths of George Floyd and Sarah Everard, made our society aware of more widespread failings, albeit in this case in our physical rather than our social fabric.

Many buildings formerly considered safe, and homes in them bought on that basis, are now deemed sufficiently at risk as to be unmortgageable. Residents who may need to move for work or family reasons are trapped; some are facing service charges and bills of orders of magnitude higher than in previous years in order to pay for waking watches, insurance or building refurbishment. In many cases the freeholder is little more than a shell mechanism through which leaseholders pay their service charges to the developer who constructed the block. This is a problem too big for anyone other than government to solve, and too urgent for it to be allowed to fester a moment longer. Will the Minister speak with his Treasury colleagues and use his good offices to gain their commitment to attending the next meeting that he and his ministry are due to have with the End Our Cladding Scandal campaign?

Noble Lords will remember, I hope, the famous words written by Lewis Carroll—like me, both a mathematician and an Anglican clergyman:

“‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.’ ‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’ ‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master—that’s all.’”


In housing terms, an “affordable rent” is now defined by Her Majesty’s Government as being one at or below 80% of the market rent for the local area. But if I were looking in the window of an estate agent and saw one house on sale for a million pounds and one next to it for £800,000, that would hardly convince a mortgage lender that I could afford, on a bishop’s stipend, to buy the cheaper one. As several speakers, including the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, have reminded us, affordability has to mean what the purchaser can afford. Redefining the word, Humpty Dumpty-like, to mean something entirely other may assert mastery over the language but only at the cost of confusing and damaging serious discourse on Britain’s housing crisis. Please may we have our word back, and some truly affordable homes?

Shortly before lockdown became a word, I was standing one morning in a room high up in the centre of Manchester, speaking with Sir Richard Leese, the leader of the council. Looking out through the windows, we began to count the number of cranes visible. Each one was a symbol of the economic regeneration that had revitalised the city that we both serve, and many of them were building blocks of high-quality apartments.

The number of people living close to the city centre has rocketed so much in recent years that I have had to reverse the practice of my predecessors and buy new city-centre vicarages to house the clergy of the city churches closer to their new parishioners. I welcome the growth in city-centre living, locating people close to where they work, cutting down commuting costs, while helping to support shops and leisure facilities.

Sadly, however, we have also seen something of a trend first spotted in London: blocks are built and apartments are sold, but no one ever moves in. Instead of homes, we are constructing bank vaults in the sky: edifices intended purely to hold value, never people. They have more in common with gold bricks than the bricks that build our homes. While so many of our fellow citizens remain homeless or poorly housed, they are a scandal.

I accept that appropriating them directly to rent out affordably would probably prove too complex to achieve in law, but a stiffer tax regime, radically reducing the incentive to hold much-needed properties empty for long periods, would not only bring more homes into occupation but raise funds from the others—money that could then be redeployed to address our housing crisis. I urge the Minister in this debate to let us know what plans the Government have or will consider, including the taxation of such properties, so that they no longer lie empty in our cities, while, mere yards away, our fellow citizens lie down to sleep in shop doorways each night.

To conclude, today is a day for words, but, like those in the Archbishops’ commission’s report, they must result in action. I thank my most reverend friend for giving us this opportunity to debate these matters, and I pray that his efforts may be richly rewarded.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

I call the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths of Fforestfach. Lord Griffiths? The noble Lord cannot unmute, so we will move on to the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, and hope we can go back to the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, later.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD) [V]]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part today, and I congratulate the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury on securing this debate. I declare my interests as the chair of the National Community Land Trust Network and a vice-president of the LGA. I welcome the report and the introduction given by the most reverend Primate, and I share his desire for good homes that are affordable for all.

My first involvement in campaigning for and against housing started 40 years ago. Newly married, we moved into a new cul-de-sac of 11 houses on the edge of the village. A year later, a woman knocked on the door, asking me to sign a petition against further houses on an orchard in the centre of the village. I asked her if she had similarly campaigned to prevent the building of the house we were living in; she was honest and said yes. I refused to sign her petition.

Later, when I was on the parish council, it was obvious that there was a desperate need for affordable homes, especially bungalows to enable the elderly to downsize. We searched with both the district council and the housing association to no avail. The village is still without these benefits. However, some swanky bungalows are now being built on redundant farmland—not quite what we originally had in mind.

The glebe land in the centre of the village had a village room at one side, a play area with equipment and an area for ball games. The playschool, as it was then, operated three days a week from the church room. The Church Commissioners, having a hard time financially, were looking for areas to develop and cast their eyes on our piece of land. As you might expect, I wrote to the bishop at Wells, and the Church Commissioners subsequently looked elsewhere. This was not a case of “not in my backyard” but of preserving the essential area that belonged to the children and young people. There were seats there for the mums and elderly to sit, chat and watch the children play.

The sense of community exists only when everyone is catered for: young couples starting out, growing families, young people exploring independence, empty nests and the elderly not wanting to move away from lifelong friends. A home is where each of us should be able to relax, shout at the TV, play music, read a book, and share meals and the experiences of the day. I regret that I probably take all this for granted, but it is not so for others. In cities, towns and villages, there are those who have no settled base. Their accommodation is shared, overcrowded, temporary, poorly built or maintained, not on a bus route, or a long way from the school. Children need a secure home in order to flourish. This has been brought into sharp contrast during the pandemic, as children often have to share a computer with their siblings to access education, often all sitting round the kitchen table to do their schoolwork.

Good housing, as the commission’s report Coming Home sets outs, should be

“sustainable, safe, stable, sociable, and satisfying”.

It is essential that all new housing should have minimal impact on the environment and be good to look at. Finding land that is available, in the right place and affordable is often the stumbling block. The Church has land. Developers and housing associations are looking for land. However, the best solutions come from the communities themselves, recognising the need for housing and working with others to make this happen. Forming a community land trust—a CLT—is one way of ensuring this happens. Like-minded residents come together to plan what their community needs, engaging in consultation with residents, and the national network is on hand to assist with providing advice and support. These homes can be of mixed tenure, and some CLTs run local post offices and shops—all vital for communities.

The most reverend Primates’ report features two CLTs: Keswick CLT and London CLT—two very different areas of the country. In both cases, local churches were there at the start. In Keswick’s case, they built on church land. There is obviously a lot of potential for this to roll out across the country. Being able to develop on church land, and with churches themselves as active partners in their communities, has been key in setting up the CLTs.

Decent, truly affordable housing is not a single political party issue; it stretches across all parties and none. A long-term, 20-year, deliverable housing strategy—not here today and gone tomorrow—will provide healthy communities, whether in the inner cities, market towns or deep rural areas on the edge of the moors.

The challenges for churches, of all denominations, is land. I was pleased to see that the Church Commissioners, the United Reform Church and the Methodists have all endorsed the report—all have land. In the case of the Church of England, the various diocese will need to know who to talk to if they want to support a new CLT. I sincerely hope that all diocese will embrace the challenge. How do they go about it? How do they bring a community’s project forward? The NCLT has a network of enabler hubs. I welcome the appointment of Bishop Guli Francis-Dehqani as the new bishop for housing. This is a huge step forward and gives a point of contact for those wanting to support affordable housing in their area. I welcome the move to allow the disposal of land for the charitable purpose of providing homes for the wider community at less than full market value. This is absolutely key.

The NCLT enabler hubs were supported by the Community Housing Fund from 2018 to 2020. This was a huge success and the driving force behind the increase in the total number of community-led homes in the pipeline from 5,800 homes to over 23,000 homes. However, that funding ended in March 2020 and there is no provision for a continuation in the Community Housing Fund money announced for this coming year. The research shows that, in order to be truly successful, community-led homes need four to five years of funding to become self-sustaining, not one or two years. The Government have achieved a great success and then pulled the rug out from under their feet.

Some of you may ask what is so special about a community land trust. The short answer is that communities themselves are in charge and the affordability element is enshrined in perpetuity—yes, in perpetuity. Currently, housing associations and local authorities may build affordable homes, but nothing like the 100,000 needed every year, and these homes are subject to the right to buy. While I respect the wish of tenants to buy their own homes, the current system does nothing to solve permanently the problem of affordability.

Affordability is key. I live in a village of some 300 inhabitants; we have a shop, a pub and a church, but the preschool has closed and there are no buses. There were local authority houses in years gone by, but all have been sold under the right to buy. Prices have risen exponentially. Young families have no chance of securing a home here. This is typical of thousands of rural villages. They are rapidly becoming middle class ghettos, where only the middle-aged and the middle classes can afford to live. But a mixed age range is needed to secure thriving communities, especially the chatter of young children.

There are a large number of homeless people in our community. One of them has been sleeping in our church on an annual basis. My noble friend Lord Shipley raised the Vagrancy Act. The vast majority of the homeless do not choose this way of life and the provision of overnight hostels is essential. Anything has to be better than a shop doorway.

I welcome this report and wish the most reverend Primates the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Archbishop of York, along with the right reverend Prelates the Bishop of Manchester and the Bishop of Newcastle, every success with its implementation. If there is anything I can do to assist, I am happy to do it, including waving a supportive banner as delegates go into the General Synod later this year. Hopefully, this will not be needed. I look forward to the Minister’s response, which I sincerely hope will be positive on helping to provide good, affordable homes for all.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

I will call the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths of Fforestfach, again, in the hope that he is now on the call. Lord Griffiths? No? We shall go to the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick.

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Church of England’s commission on producing such a seminal report and policy document on the need for a long-term housing strategy for England. I also commend the most reverend Primate for securing this debate on this important and timely issue, particularly given the pandemic situation, which has pointed up the fragility of human relationships and our interdependence on one another and our communities.

This housing report is set very much in social justice terms. I agree with the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury that the central tenet or thesis of the document is the need for good, affordable housing for all and to help people, particularly in the post-Covid scenario. Therefore, I look forward to the Minister’s response to this debate.

Access to suitable housing, whether in the social or private sphere, is a fundamental human right. Coming from Northern Ireland, I can cast my mind back to the civil rights movement there in the late 1960s, where access to housing was a major issue and was caught up in sectarian constitutional politics. One of the slogans of that campaign was “A house based on need and not on creed”. It is interesting to note that the Northern Ireland Housing Executive was formed out of that campaign in the early 1970s. It established an allocation system for social, or public authority, houses based on the principle of need. In fact, the housing associations allocate houses according to where people appear on the Housing Executive’s list. That principle has lasted to this very day. There is absolutely no doubt that housing provision and housing allocation should be based on need.

Access to suitable housing is particularly important during the pandemic and post-pandemic phases. People have to feel safe and secure. As we consider those from the BAME communities, many of whom feel marginalised and isolated, it is important that they have secure shelter within thriving, healthy communities with plenty of open space for recreation.

Therefore, this report from the most reverend Primates the Archbishops of Canterbury and York is very timely. It estimates that so many people are living in overcrowded, unaffordable or unsuitable homes. Responding to these issues, it makes a number of recommendations, all of which I support, aimed at those involved in the housing sector, including the Government. The report sets out a number of recommendations to address the issues, based on five core values: sustainable, safe, stable, sociable and satisfying for all. They should be central to any housing strategy or policy.

The report’s recommendations include actions for the Church of England, the Government and others involved in the housing sector. It recommends that the Church of England commits to using its land assets to promote truly affordable homes and calls on the Government to produce a 20-year housing strategy backed by an increase in public capital investment and a phased reduction in the price of land. It argues that, in the short term, the Government should review the social security system as it fails to provide adequate housing support for a large number of low-income households. I have argued for some time in your Lordships’ House for the need for a root and branch review of the social security system to focus on the income needs of individuals, which will obviously become more acute as a result of the pandemic.

Other recommendations aimed at a variety of those involved in the housing sector include ensuring longer-term security of tenure, introducing an explicit duty of care on landlords, improving the quality of temporary accommodation, and removing unsafe cladding from all buildings. I note the Government have stated that they welcome the leadership of the Church of England and that taking action to tackle our growing housing emergency and looking at how church land can be used to fight homelessness is welcome.

I have some questions for the Minister. What positive, concrete steps will the Government take, working with all sectors within the affordable and social housing regime, to increase the supply of houses and ensure that planning policy and strategy involve the healthy development of communities with recreational space? Will the Government bring forward a composite housing strategy encompassing homelessness, the affordable and social housing sectors, overcrowding, increasing the supply of houses, the rights of renters, unsafe cladding, energy efficiency of homes, and fuel poverty? What legislative provisions will be introduced to address standards in the private rented sector, houses in multiple occupation, and overcrowding to protect the health and well-being of occupants?

What further measures will the Government bring forward to ensure that all houses, apartments and flats in the public and private rented sectors are safe from fires and that all external cladding will be removed and replaced with fire-resistant materials to avoid another Grenfell, with such unwarranted loss of life? Will a comprehensive scheme to deal with external cladding issues be developed?

I have some experience in the housing field as a former Minister with responsibility for the provision of social housing in the mid-2000s in Northern Ireland. We did some significant work with the noble Lord, Lord Best, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ford. We concentrated on increasing the supply of housing, implementing funding models to bring in private finance for the provision of housing, working with the corporate banking sector and housing associations to increase the supply of housing, using government land for the construction of houses, thereby reducing the cost of housing units, and deploying the use of developer contributions. All this added the distinct multiplier effect that housing construction has on the economy and job creation. There was also a concentration on the redevelopment of housing and green open spaces in inner-city Belfast. Parts of these areas had been subject to sectarian violence. The houses were derelict and in urgent need of repair. Another aspect of housing renewal was the use of former military sites for housing provision. All this provided regeneration and added to the supply of housing.

I therefore think that there may be similarities to what we did in the Church of England’s report, which is focused on social justice, fairness, equality and accessibility in housing provision and recreational spaces, chiming with the fact that homes and communities should be created to be sustainable, safe, stable, sociable and satisfying for all.

In commending the work of the most reverend Primates, I wish them well in their endeavours in the housing field, and I hope that the Minister pays attention to the contents of the report and works with the Church of England and others in the housing field to implement many of the recommendations. I look forward to the Minister’s answers to the questions that I have asked today.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, I have been asked to try calling the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths of Fforestfach, for a third time. Is Lord Griffiths of Fforestfach there and able to take part? I am afraid we are getting silence. I call the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Newcastle.

Non-Domestic Rating (Lists) (No. 2) Bill

Lord Faulkner of Worcester Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 4th February 2021 Grand Committee

Bill reported without amendment.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, that concludes the Committee’s proceedings on the Bill. I remind Members to sanitise their desks and chairs before leaving the Room.

Committee adjourned at 4.26 pm.

No-fault Evictions

Lord Faulkner of Worcester Excerpts

Wednesday 27th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I point out that there is a firm commitment to the abolition of Section 21, while strengthening the powers to evict on other grounds. That reform will come forward when parliamentary time allows.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked, and we now move to the third Oral Question.

Fire Safety Bill

Lord Faulkner of Worcester Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 29th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

I have had a request to speak from the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I do not disagree that the amendment should be withdrawn. The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, my noble friend Lady Eaton and the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, have drawn attention to the problem that I raised earlier about leaseholders caught by the Government’s Grenfell-related changes being unable to afford repairs or waking watches and/or unable to sell their properties. In some cases, the leaseholders are joint owners, as my noble friend Minister has just said.

Will my noble friend agree to a meeting to map the way forward before Report? This could look at the options to see whether primary legislation—which I think he is reluctant to pursue—secondary legislation, fire brigade or health and safety guidance or changes to the regulatory codes would work. There has to be a risk assessment and we need to make sure that this is possible.

I have some experience of dealing with these fire difficulties. As noble Lords will recall, this used to be the responsibility of the fire brigade and then it was all changed. I oversaw that transition. I also know from experience in China how wrong you can get things, particularly if you do not consult. I remember that China did not consult on changes to fire safety laws. They were not aware that most modern premises had sprinklers. As someone has already said, sprinklers limit what you have to do with fire safety measures. It is a modern approach.

I should find a meeting helpful, perhaps to limit the number of amendments that it might otherwise be necessary for us to put forward on Report.

--- Later in debate ---

Amendments 6 and 7 not moved.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 8. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister should email the clerk during the debate. Anyone wishing to press this or anything else in this group to a Division should make that clear in the debate.

Amendment 8

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Berkeley (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for introducing this group of amendments. I have listened carefully to the debate so far; some excellent arguments have been made in favour of going even faster than the Bill does. I support it, but, as I shall try to outline, there is an argument for going faster.

My interest in the Bill is in fire detection and suppression. I worked on the Channel Tunnel, and after the Notre Dame fire we had some interesting debates in your Lordships’ House about how to detect fires in the roofs of old buildings and how to extinguish them. I was disappointed to be told, “Well, we’re putting fire detectors in the roof, but there’s no access to extinguish a fire.” I still worry about that because, as we all know, the biggest risk to old buildings from fire is when the contractors are in.

The Bill is about the domestic environment; I welcome it. My amendment is a probing amendment about including sprinklers and mists in the definition of firefighting equipment. Mists are very effective and useful, and would be a comparatively low-cost installation for anything between the Houses of Parliament and the buildings that the Bill covers.

I am impressed by mists, even compared with sprinklers. I am aware that many experts on old buildings say that they should not have sprinklers in them because they destroy the contents of the building. That is true—but at least they enable the building to survive. Mists do not destroy the contents, but preserve them to a much greater degree. They are good with electrical fires—which is what we are talking about here—and also with fuel and chip pan fires. I am told that one nozzle, with a small pipe, will cover 16 square metres of building.

I look at a building, whether it is a big one or someone’s property, and I think, “If you can put in a water mist system using a small pipe, it is not that different from installing a ring main for electricity.” Perhaps we should look at making water mist installations a requirement in all habitable buildings in the same way as we require electricity to be put in them—most of the time, anyway.

I know that there is a downside and that it will not happen through this Bill or indeed for many years, but the costs are low and the damage caused is much less than that caused by a fire or by sprinklers. In his response, I would like the Minister at least to say that he will look at this, particularly for domestic rented, leased and privately owned properties, as well as considering the options for new build along with existing ones. I think that we should start the process now because, as we heard at the beginning of this debate, some 14,000 electrical fires are started every year. Many of them could have been and could be avoided if a water mist system were installed.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

I call the noble Lord, Lord Stunell. He is not responding, so we will come back to him. I call the noble Lord, Lord Whitty.

[Lord Whitty (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I have added my name to the amendment tabled in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, in relation to the responsibilities of leaseholders. It is important that this is reflected in the terms of the Bill. Leaseholders are not the responsible person unless they happen to be co-owners or co-freeholders, and as we heard in the debates on earlier amendments, leaseholders are being faced with quite substantial costs. It would be wrong if the legislation allowed an interpretation whereby in certain circumstances they were the responsible person. They are not. The owners or their agents are the responsible person and we should make that quite clear.

I also strongly support the principles of the amendment tabled in the name of my noble friend Lord Berkeley. Like him, I am astonished that at the moment, the regulations relating to domestic dwellings and indeed other buildings do not include a requirement on new build and major refurbishments for the installation of sprinklers.

Perhaps I may divert slightly from the question of high-rise domestic buildings. When I was at primary school in the 1950s, the school burned down. The fire actually started in my classroom. The report on that fire suggested that a simple sprinkler system would have quickly suppressed the fire and saved the building. As a result, when we returned to school, we were accommodated in temporary huts. Those temporary huts, in 1952, were required to have a rather crude sprinkler system. I was astounded to find out that in the year 2020, there is no such requirement for school buildings and no such requirement for high-rise buildings and premises in multiple occupation. That is something that should be addressed, if not in this Bill, at least in the batch of measures being brought forward by the Government in the wake of the Grenfell tragedy.

I am grateful to my noble friend for raising this issue because it needs to form part of the Government’s thinking in relation to the overall response to fire safety problems. I hope that at some point the Minister can indicate where that proposition will end up. I would strongly support such an addition.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I apologise that I could not participate at Second Reading. I had wanted to raise carbon monoxide detection—a silent killer production of combustion—with fire detection, but I understand it is outside the scope of this Bill. I would like to speak to Amendment 8, to which I have added my name. Let me explain why.

I remain haunted by seeing the blazing Grenfell Tower from my daughter’s window, and I have every sympathy with those whose flats all over the UK find their leasehold purchases are now valueless and are still paying out their mortgage and charges. Back in the 1970s, we financially squeezed ourselves to buy our first flat, only later to find it was built with high alumina cement and, until deemed safe, completely worthless. That is why I feel a commitment to others caught in this plight. This amendment would bring further clarity to the meaning of a “responsible person”, and ensure that leaseholders who are not also freeholders are not made liable or responsible for any remediation work needed as a result of poor building and development decisions on flats which they believed, and were told on checks, comply with building regulations. I want to read the Minister’s response to the previous amendment very carefully, as I hope that it allays some of my concerns, but I note that the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, has raised some ongoing questions.

The huge costs of fire safety checks, materials testing, removal and replacement of dangerous materials, and the retrofitting of sprinklers and other fire safety equipment, all currently fall to leaseholders. Let me illustrate this with information from one such leaseholder. For residents of three blocks of flats in Baltic Avenue, Brentford—which probably should never have been signed off—fire safety checks have been quoted between £15,000 and £24,000, the mock testing of current cladding and insulation will cost £50,000, and rectifying all identified issues has been initially quoted to be at least £6 million. The previous group of amendments highlighted the huge burden on leaseholders, so who is responsible? This is surely the responsibility of developers and their team of architects, builders, et cetera, and the freeholders—and what about the banks that earn an income from the loans?

As the Minister has pointed out, he is well aware of the crippling costs, and he is clearly committed to doing something about the many leaseholders living in flats that are currently valueless, that cannot be sold or re-mortgaged. Many leaseholders are already financially stretched and bought their flats using the Help to Buy scheme, but if they cannot afford to pay for the fire safety checks they need to obtain an ESW1 form, Homes England will not value any properties bought under the scheme. Despite living in flats that are valued at zero, many leaseholders still find themselves having to cover interest payments on a loan that was given on the basis that if it fell in value you paid less. If the flats are worth zero, have all these loans been reset to zero, and are we sure that that has happened?

Even more seriously, these leaseholders are now suffering real mental health problems, not only from the financial burdens but because they know they are stuck in flats tonight that could go up in flames at any moment. The removal of cladding and other dangerous materials really is a matter of life and death. All this means that insurance costs will be sky high for buildings that are still considered to pose such a high risk. Can the Government give us some evidence of really speedy action?

In July, the housing Minister agreed that all costs should not have to be met by leaseholders and should be met by the developers or building owners. Many leaseholders believe the Government have changed their position, saying that leaseholders would still have to foot some of the bill, but they just do not have the money to do it. This amendment rectifies this by being absolutely clear about who is responsible for what, and that is why I support it.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, I am going to try to call the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, again.

--- Later in debate ---

Amendment 9 not moved.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, we now come to the group beginning with Amendment 10. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister should email the clerk during the debate. Anyone wishing to press this or anything else in this group to a Division should make that clear in the debate.

Amendment 10

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

Amendments 11 and 12 not moved.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

We now come to the group consisting of Amendment 13. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister should email the clerk during the debate. Anyone wishing to press this amendment to a Division should make that clear in the debate.

Amendment 13

Moved by

Fire Safety Bill

Lord Faulkner of Worcester Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 1st October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sanderson of Welton (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register, and I welcome my noble friend Lord Herbert to this House.

On the face of it, this is a straightforward Bill that will clarify the scope of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 to better identify and enforce against fire risk in multi-occupied residential buildings. In reality, of course, the situation is far more complicated, for lying behind this piece of legislation is the devastation of the Grenfell Tower fire and the knowledge that 72 people lost their lives simply by virtue of the fact that they were at home at the time. By definition, a home is somewhere that should provide protection, not sow the seeds of a person’s death.

I welcome the Bill, as it will significantly improve the safety of millions of people around the country. It is, however, only one part of a raft of measures to improve standards. There is the building safety Bill, and another key element in this process is the fire safety consultation, which closes in less than a fortnight and includes proposals to implement all the recommendations made by Sir Martin Moore-Bick in his excellent phase 1 report.

I am afraid I do not agree with the argument put forward in the other place that a number of those recommendations should be included in the Bill. As they should, the recommendations incorporate significant change. Sir Martin himself said that it was

“important that they command the support of those who have experience of the matters to which they relate.”

It was therefore essential to consult, not least because the Government are legally obliged to do so, given that the vast majority of the recommendations will require implementation in law.

However, I completely understand the anger and frustration at the lack of pace. As has been mentioned today, it is more than three years since the fire and nearly 12 months since the recommendations were first made. I ask my noble friend the Minister to give a clear timeframe for when and how the recommendations will be implemented. When will the Government respond to the consultation, and when can we expect the regulations that will enable many of the recommendations to be put in place? When does he expect the building safety Bill to be introduced?

Together, these measures will significantly improve fire safety standards. I pay tribute to all those from the Grenfell community, particularly Grenfell United, whose members spend their time campaigning on this issue solely so that what happened to them does not happen to anyone else. At the very least, we owe them some reassurance as to when these much-needed changes will be brought about.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, has withdrawn so the next speaker is the noble Lord, Lord Storey.

End of Eviction Moratorium

Lord Faulkner of Worcester Excerpts

Thursday 24th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, what I said was that we would look at and consider the loan arrangement but that we are not making a commitment to it—indeed, it is based only on an announcement—so that we can see what the Welsh Government intend to do. I pointed out that there are great similarities between the situation in Wales and in this country regarding the court system and the six-month notice period.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed and I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, who was the only Member who was not able to get in.

Insolvency Act 1986 Part A1 Moratorium (Eligibility of Private Registered Providers) Regulations 2020

Lord Faulkner of Worcester Excerpts

Friday 24th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a particular privilege to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles. She really is the best ferret there is on your Lordships’ Benches in the areas where she has an expertise.

Many Members will realise that I have been interested in social housing from the days when I was elected to the London Borough of Islington—the first Tory leader in that century. I was not only the leader—I chaired the housing committee. That interest in the mutual movement has stayed with me, which is one of the reasons why I am making a short speech today. Your Lordships took through the Mutuals’ Deferred Shares Act 2015, so I have been fairly active in this world.

For once, I can actually say a firm word of praise for the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, and for Her Majesty’s Treasury. They thought ahead and have been in a position to help if, tragically, any of the private registered providers of social housing found themselves in real financial difficulty. To them I say thank you so much—it is really good that my Government have looked ahead and taken some action.

I have only a couple of questions. Is this likely to apply only to newcomers? We see in the briefing memorandum that there are 322 in toto. Is there any geographical spread that may lead to particular difficulties? Would I be correct in saying that this will not affect any of the traditional long-term trusts such as Peabody and all the others, some of which were created over a century ago?

I also wonder a little why Northern Ireland is not covered. When I was a PPS in Northern Ireland, I was very much aware of the social housing movement there. I wonder why it would appear from the memorandum that Scotland has been added but not Northern Ireland.

Finally, paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum says:

“Financial difficulties in the social housing sector are rare”—


yes, we know that—

“and where they have arisen in the past have been resolved within the sector.”

Is my noble friend on the Front Bench saying that because of the incidence of Covid-19 and the massive effect it is having across all sectors, there is a worry that this traditional route of solving problems will probably not work, which is why we have this SI in front of us today?

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

Lord Empey has withdrawn from this debate, so the next speaker is the noble Lord, Lord Bhatia.

Business and Planning Bill

Lord Faulkner of Worcester Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 13th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, it is a pleasure and a privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham. His record in fighting for public health and achieving sensible tobacco control is probably greater than that of any other Member of your Lordships’ House. It goes right back to the early 1980s, when, as a Health Minister, he was fired from Margaret Thatcher’s Government for taking a tough line on sports sponsorship and advertisements with those whom he described as the “tobacco barons”. In a blog post, he said:

“I banned smoking at the meetings I held with them, and tried to get a health warning not just on the cigarette packs, but on the cigarettes themselves. The barons resisted this; the ink, they asserted, contained substances that could damage the smoker’s health”.


I am delighted that he has put his name to this amendment; I was very pleased to do the same. I congratulate the noble Baroness on the speech she made at Second Reading and on the very persuasive way in which she moved the amendment so ably just now.

This is the latest step on the journey to the smoke-free country which Ministers say they want to achieve by 2030. It is also consistent with the approach we have adopted in your Lordships’ House since we approved a succession of tobacco control measures, going back to the early years of this century. The most important of these, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Young, was the measure to make pubs and clubs smoke-free after the free votes in 2006. There can be hardly anyone, in this House or outside, who wishes to go back to the days when pubs were full of smoke and patrons needed to change their clothes and wash their hair to get rid of the stench when they got home. Those laws were the most significant contribution to public health since the clean air laws of the 1950s and the Victorians’ improvements to the quality of drinking water.

In 2013, I was pleased to be part of a cross-party group which moved amendments to the then Children and Families Bill that were designed to protect children and help prevent them starting to smoke. Those required cigarettes and other tobacco products to be sold in standardised packaging and made it an offence to smoke in cars where children under 18 are present. By the happiest of coincidences, the Health Minister who accepted the arguments in those amendments tabled in Committee was none other than the noble Earl, Lord Howe. He will therefore appreciate how entirely appropriate it is to improve legislation such as this in the interests of public health.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, has said, this amendment enjoys significant public support. Particularly striking is the evidence from Greater Manchester. Over 70% of its population said that they wanted the areas immediately outside public buildings to be smoke-free environments. As she said, all 10 local authorities in the area support this amendment.

I should also mention a friend of mine, Ian Hudspeth. He is a Conservative councillor and chair of the Local Government Association’s community well-being board. In a message to me he writes: “As leader of Oxfordshire County Council, which supports Oxfordshire’s ambition to be the first smoke-free county in five years’ time, by 2025, I want to express my support for this amendment. It is important to ensure that public spaces where people congregate and socialise do not present a health hazard from cigarette smoke. By giving local authorities the mandate and tools to protect their residents’ health, it ensures a level playing field for businesses and demonstrates the Government’s commitment to its ambition for England to be smoke free by 2030”.

I hope that your Lordships will accept this amendment when, presumably, it is moved on Report—unless the Minister is able to indicate tonight that he is able to accept it now. I wholeheartedly support it.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I am delighted to support this important amendment. We have come a long way in public health on harms from smoking and passive smoking. Our ban on smoking in public places has resulted in proven improvements in rates of heart disease among workers in such environments. As well as protecting workers in pubs, we must not put at risk the public, who have in recent years enjoyed pubs. Unfortunately, the evidence around Covid damaging the heart and lungs is rapidly mounting. We know that those with cardiovascular disease and lung disease—direct consequences of tobacco smoke exposure—have a worse prognosis and a higher post-infection morbidity.

For people’s mental health, and for the country’s economy, it is essential that venues are supported to open safely and inclusively, and to provide a pleasant experience outdoors that is as safe as possible. Commercial pressures from the tobacco industry will, of course, want to resist this. This amendment, to which I have my name, supports hospitality venues to reopen, maintains consistent messaging to decrease smoking and encourages people to enjoy going out and socialising, with mental health benefits. This amendment supports our public health gain on decreasing tobacco smoke exposure, which must not be abandoned now; it would be irresponsible to throw it away. I urge all noble Lords to think about what they will throw away if they do not support the simple measure proposed in this amendment.