Non-custodial Sentences: Public Confidence

Debate between Lord Farmer and Lord Bellamy

Monday 22nd January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, the actual message is, in essence, for the Sentencing Council to transmit. The Government and Parliament set the framework, the Sentencing Council sets the guidelines, and our independent judges impose the sentences. The Sentencing Council’s present guidelines emphasise that community orders can be highly positive, last longer than short custodial sentences and involve important restrictions on day-to-day liberty; and that breaching them can result in significant adverse consequences. We must entirely combat the idea that community sentences are a soft option, and that is the Government’s position.

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, the need to weigh public confidence against improving rehabilitation, reducing costs and the need for prison places seems to be ignored when sentencing for serious and violent crime. The trend here is for ever longer custodial sentences. People convicted of murder now spend 60% longer in prison, on average, than in 2001. No balancing act is being attempted, and no rehabilitation. Justice cannot be driven by vengeance, so why are the Government arguing for ever longer sentences?

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, I am not aware that the Government are arguing for ever longer sentences. On the contrary, the sentencing Bill that your Lordships will shortly consider has a presumption to avoid prison sentences in certain circumstances—particularly short sentences. As far as murder is concerned, the statutory sentence is life imprisonment. That is not a matter for the Government. The time one serves as a sentence for murder is a matter for the Sentencing Council guidelines. I think I would accept—as the Justice Committee accepted—that it is true that public opinion in recent years seems to have moved towards heavier sentences for serious crime. But I do not accept that, as my noble friend suggests, that overrides rehabilitation in all circumstances.

Joint Enterprise: Young Black Men

Debate between Lord Farmer and Lord Bellamy

Thursday 19th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, I have visited several high-security prisons since starting my reviews in 2016. On one such visit I met young black men who were secondary parties in a gang-related incident—I use that phrase advisedly—where tragically someone was murdered. Joint enterprise case law then, pre-R v Jogee, meant they were convicted as principals and facing very long sentences. As we are talking about young black men, and it is difficult to surmount the difficulties in securing justice, I ask my noble and learned friend: what are the Government doing to help young black individuals and other secondary parties to surmount those difficulties in securing justice?

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

Prisoners in the position that my noble friend refers to would have been able to consider the Jogee case and appeal if that was the right course or refer their case to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. The Law Commission is looking into the appeal process, but those legal avenues are open to them.

Prison Capacity

Debate between Lord Farmer and Lord Bellamy

Tuesday 17th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

The Government very much welcome the contribution that local agencies and other organisations make towards rehabilitation and will continue to take advantage of all the opportunities that arise. If I may trouble your Lordships anecdotally for a moment, I met a man the other day who had been a remand prisoner in Winchester prison. He had been acquitted, so he was free. I asked, “What was your experience in Winchester prison?” He said, “I did very well, actually, because I was able to take the IT course that they offered. I can now do an Excel spreadsheet and a Word document, and I regard it as having been a positive experience”. So it is not all doom and gloom.

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement, which avoids the trap of penal populism and combines proportionality with pragmatism. However, its three crime prevention strategies are all downriver. Can the Minister explain what the Government are doing to prevent crime before people offend in the first place, especially in the area of strengthening families—a quarter of our prison population were in local authority care—and reducing father absence, since 70% of young offenders grew up in lone-parent families? Lastly, how are the Government ensuring that families of prisoners get the help they need in the community in order to reduce intergenerational crime? Some 60% of children of convicted parents go on to offend themselves.

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, as always, my noble friend makes a powerful point about the importance of families, both in avoiding crime in the first place and in supporting criminals who later return to the community. The Government’s general approach to supporting families is very much at the centre of our wider view of this particular landscape, particularly through the DfE’s Supporting Families programme, the family hubs, family courts and particularly the FDACs. The noble Lord’s points are well taken and will certainly be borne in mind as we continue.

Prisons: Chaplaincy Service

Debate between Lord Farmer and Lord Bellamy

Tuesday 10th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, it is the Government’s intention to see that that happens.

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister has touched on prisons and probation, but where does the role of chaplaincy sit within the “One HMPPS” programme for achieving greater alignment between prison and probation and a whole-sentence approach? There has in the past been limited joint working between probation staff and prison chaplains, even at key points in the sentence, such as when planning for release. Also, prison chaplaincy sits within HMPPS and community chaplaincy is carried out by the voluntary sector, independent of government.

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, the Government seek greater alignment between prison and probation. The chief probation officer will be a member of the new council of faith and belief. A new pilot will see prison chaplains attending approved premises to which released prisoners go and there will be further collaborative work with the Community Chaplaincy Association.

Prison Capacity

Debate between Lord Farmer and Lord Bellamy

Tuesday 6th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, it is interesting that the whole increase is in the adult male estate. It is also interesting that there is a tremendous emphasis on not having women in prison, one of the reasons being that they are primary carers and that relationships are important to them. We have something like 4,000 women in prison and 80,000 men in prison. We do not have the same emphasis for the men. The Statement talks of rehabilitation and my noble friend has also mentioned employment, education and training. There was no mention of relationships, yet the Government’s own data says that prisoners who have family relationships are 39% less likely to reoffend than those who do not. I suggest that the Minister and all other Ministers mention family relationships as part of the reducing reoffending programme, because 39% is not a statistic that we should ignore.

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

I accept my noble friend’s points about family relationships and their importance. They should be borne in mind in the rehabilitation programme and in post-release care.