IRA Terrorism: Compensation for Victims

Lord Empey Excerpts

Thursday 1st May 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, for securing this debate. This subject has been going around Parliament now for many years.

I have had the privilege of being a member of a parliamentary group that tries to represent the interests of the victims of Libyan-supplied weaponry to the IRA. It is ably chaired by Andrew Rosindell MP. We have seen successive Foreign Secretaries, Treasury Ministers and officials, but the first and only time we felt that we were making some progress was actually when Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary and he agreed to appoint an envoy. The expression on the faces of the Foreign Office officials sitting beside him told us that this was probably something that he had gone off and done on his own, but he then left the post and was replaced by Jeremy Hunt. Six months later, he came up with the Shawcross proposal, which has gone into the sand and remains top secret. The Treasury officials were the same.

That group does not believe that the UK taxpayer should be paying compensation to the victims of Libyan-supplied weapons. The state of Libya, with Gaddafi as its president, decided to supply arms and weapons to a terrorist organisation operating in the United Kingdom. There is a clear, unambiguous line of responsibility from start to finish. Those weapons did a lot of damage in Great Britain and in Northern Ireland and without them, the IRA would not have been able to prosecute its campaign in the latter part of the 1980s and 1990s. It was the jewel in their crown.

There are ways of using the frozen money—we have talked about this with officials—to build up schemes to ensure that revenue is provided to help victims. We will not go into the detail today, but if the Russian experience that we are going through at the moment had occurred when we were trying to make progress, we would have got a lot further. The Minister has to understand that the response has been a brick wall, not just from his party but from all parties.

Many believe that Tony Blair persuaded Gaddafi not to develop nuclear weapons: the deal in the tent, there was some kind of payback. Your Lordships may remember Operation El Dorado Canyon, when Ronald Reagan used UK airbases to bomb Libya. That incentivised Gaddafi to do even more. With the “Eksund” and all the other things he did, he supplied a massive amount and was the engine room for the IRA in that period.

I would say to the Minister that we talk about international law and the order—what order? Virtually nobody is paying any attention to it except us. The Chinese are not interested, the Americans are not interested, Russia is not interested, Iran is not interested. Who? These people in the state of Libya took a political decision to effectively attack the United Kingdom, and did it very effectively. Under these circumstances, we would be operating in the interests of our own people to ensure that we get as much compensation for these people as possible. They have suffered terribly. Other people have got it. It is not a case simply of finding that chicken nuggets in some eastern European country are not as acceptable as chicken nuggets here. That is the sort of trivia that we have reduced ourselves to in the courts. So I hope that the Minister can take seriously back to his department the idea that we can do this but the UK taxpayer does not have to bear the burden. On that, I think we can all agree.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Collins of Highbury) (Lab)]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, for asking this Question for Short Debate. I agree very much with the noble Lord, Lord Caine, that the terrorist actions of the IRA could never be justified. Therefore I begin by reflecting on some of his points and by reiterating that this Government have profound sympathy for UK victims of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism, as well as all victims of the Troubles. I know from personal experience as a union officer visiting Belfast throughout the 1980s and 1990s just what that terrorist action caused and the impact it had, but I cannot imagine the pain and suffering that the victims had to endure. I had the benefit of being able to get on a plane and leave but they could not, and that is a really important point.

I hope that the Government’s support and compensation, through the Northern Ireland Executive and the Troubles Permanent Disablement Scheme, is of at least some help. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Caine, I shall ensure that officials write to update him on all the elements of the compensation schemes.

When it comes to getting compensation from Libya, I believe that it is important to distinguish between securing compensation for actions where Libya was a third party and the actions directly carried out by Libya. I do not think that we should ever forget who is responsible for the terrorist actions in Northern Ireland: they were carried out by the IRA. Victims of direct attacks such as Lockerbie and the killing of WPC Fletcher have received compensation—but I repeat that the primary responsibility for Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism lies with the IRA itself. However, the extensive support by the Gaddafi regime, as the noble Lord, Lord Caine, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, made clear, through money, weapons, explosives and training, from the 1970s onwards, undoubtedly enhanced its capacity to carry out attacks in Northern Ireland and, of course, the rest of the United Kingdom.

Responsibility for compensating victims specifically for the actions of the Gaddafi regime rests, as the noble Lord said, with the Libyan state. That is why, in 2011, thanks to a UK initiative, the UN Security Council adopted resolutions 1970 and 1973, which froze Libyan assets to help end the brutality inflicted by the Gaddafi regime on the Libyan people. Nor should we forget that the Libyan people suffered hugely under the actions of that dictator. What those resolutions sought to do was to give the people of Libya the opportunity to determine their own future. These assets have remained frozen to prevent their misuse, with the aim of preserving them for the future benefit of the Libyan people.

Over time, as we have heard in this debate, there have been calls to use these assets to compensate victims of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism. But, as in the UN resolutions, those assets must be used in line with our UN obligations, which are specifically for the future benefit of the Libyan people. In fact—this is a point I want to stress—it helps the UK’s ability to support Libya’s transition to a democratic, independent and united country. I think we should stress that a united, independent, democratic country is about the future security of this country and of Europe. It is a vital component of our actions in relation to the future of Libya. A politically stable and unified Libya would be better positioned to address the legacy of the Gaddafi regime.

Additionally, seizing frozen assets would hinder international efforts led by the United Nations to achieve that objective of a united Libya, which can work with British victims to address compensation claims. That is why, regrettably, these frozen assets cannot be used to provide compensation for victims of Gaddafi-sponsored terrorism. There are also significant practical difficulties that exist in obtaining compensation from the Libyan state, due to the current political and economic fragmentation and instability. But I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Caine, that the United Kingdom will continue to urge the Libyan authorities to address the compensation claims of British victims. We will remain focused on supporting UN-led efforts to achieve stability and unity.

I would also like to address the proposal to use tax. People have mentioned the G7 efforts, and even that is quite complicated, as the noble Lord, Lord Caine, pointed out. For example, the UK tax collected on frozen assets goes into the Government’s consolidated fund, which is used for essential public services. The real issue is that diverting these vital public funds would not hold the Gaddafi regime accountable for supporting the IRA.

Let me also address concerns raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and the noble Lord, Lord Bew, about the Shawcross report. Since its completion under the previous Government in 2021, there have been consistent calls for its publication from victims, their representatives and parliamentarians. This Government understand the public interest in this report and the previous concern regarding transparency on the issue.

We are actively considering whether elements of this report can be published. As the noble Lord, Lord Caine, pointed out, as this report was commissioned as an internal document to provide advice to Ministers and draws on private and confidential conversations, its release would have damaging implications for the UK’s national security and international relations. Therefore, this process is not straightforward. But I know that it is important, as the noble Lord, Lord Bew, indicated, that to be as transparent as possible with the public it is better to explain the difficulties and complexities behind the issues. This includes the challenges of obtaining compensation from a divided and fragmented Libya, and defining the parameters for identifying the British victims of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism and how this report adds to the wider debate on support for people who have lost loved ones during the Troubles. That is why I reiterate that this Government are committed to being as transparent as possible over this issue.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, mentioned the letter written from representatives of victims of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism to the Prime Minister. It has been received, but it requires cross-Whitehall consideration. That is being given, and the Government will respond to it as soon as possible. Let me reassure her and other noble Lords that Hamish Falconer, the Minister for Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan and Pakistan, wrote to some of the victims and their families earlier this week. He has extended an invitation to meet them to convey this Government’s position in greater detail and for him to better understand their perspectives, too. Also, let me reassure the noble Baroness that this engagement will not be a one-off occasion, as this Government are committed to a constructive and collaborative engagement with those affected.

The noble Lord, Lord Bew, also raised the question of Kneecap. I think my noble friend the Leader of the House responded very strongly to that yesterday, making very clear how abhorrent and dangerous the comments were. She also specifically mentioned that their so-called apology was totally inadequate, and I think that that is really important.

Despite this being a Question for Short Debate, I think we have covered as much as possible in the time permitted. I want to reassure noble Lords and repeat—I know that this is not a partisan issue and that we have been working collaboratively across the Room—that this Government are committed to supporting the victims of IRA terrorism. We will be open and transparent about our efforts, and continue to press the Libyan authorities to address their country’s historic responsibility for the Gaddafi regime’s support for the IRA.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

I just want to say to the Minister that I do not think there is any fundamental disagreement in the Room about where we should be going, but we have been getting the answers that he gave on the status quo about the legalities and so on for 10 or 12 years. Whenever compensation has been mentioned, elements in Libya have attacked the group here in Parliament, attacked this country and said that it is their money and they want it back. They wanted to go to the United Nations to get the Security Council to release it. The United Kingdom has a veto. Will we use it?