The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Collins of Highbury) (Lab)
My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, for asking this Question for Short Debate. I agree very much with the noble Lord, Lord Caine, that the terrorist actions of the IRA could never be justified. Therefore I begin by reflecting on some of his points and by reiterating that this Government have profound sympathy for UK victims of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism, as well as all victims of the Troubles. I know from personal experience as a union officer visiting Belfast throughout the 1980s and 1990s just what that terrorist action caused and the impact it had, but I cannot imagine the pain and suffering that the victims had to endure. I had the benefit of being able to get on a plane and leave but they could not, and that is a really important point.
I hope that the Government’s support and compensation, through the Northern Ireland Executive and the Troubles Permanent Disablement Scheme, is of at least some help. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Caine, I shall ensure that officials write to update him on all the elements of the compensation schemes.
When it comes to getting compensation from Libya, I believe that it is important to distinguish between securing compensation for actions where Libya was a third party and the actions directly carried out by Libya. I do not think that we should ever forget who is responsible for the terrorist actions in Northern Ireland: they were carried out by the IRA. Victims of direct attacks such as Lockerbie and the killing of WPC Fletcher have received compensation—but I repeat that the primary responsibility for Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism lies with the IRA itself. However, the extensive support by the Gaddafi regime, as the noble Lord, Lord Caine, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, made clear, through money, weapons, explosives and training, from the 1970s onwards, undoubtedly enhanced its capacity to carry out attacks in Northern Ireland and, of course, the rest of the United Kingdom.
Responsibility for compensating victims specifically for the actions of the Gaddafi regime rests, as the noble Lord said, with the Libyan state. That is why, in 2011, thanks to a UK initiative, the UN Security Council adopted resolutions 1970 and 1973, which froze Libyan assets to help end the brutality inflicted by the Gaddafi regime on the Libyan people. Nor should we forget that the Libyan people suffered hugely under the actions of that dictator. What those resolutions sought to do was to give the people of Libya the opportunity to determine their own future. These assets have remained frozen to prevent their misuse, with the aim of preserving them for the future benefit of the Libyan people.
Over time, as we have heard in this debate, there have been calls to use these assets to compensate victims of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism. But, as in the UN resolutions, those assets must be used in line with our UN obligations, which are specifically for the future benefit of the Libyan people. In fact—this is a point I want to stress—it helps the UK’s ability to support Libya’s transition to a democratic, independent and united country. I think we should stress that a united, independent, democratic country is about the future security of this country and of Europe. It is a vital component of our actions in relation to the future of Libya. A politically stable and unified Libya would be better positioned to address the legacy of the Gaddafi regime.
Additionally, seizing frozen assets would hinder international efforts led by the United Nations to achieve that objective of a united Libya, which can work with British victims to address compensation claims. That is why, regrettably, these frozen assets cannot be used to provide compensation for victims of Gaddafi-sponsored terrorism. There are also significant practical difficulties that exist in obtaining compensation from the Libyan state, due to the current political and economic fragmentation and instability. But I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Caine, that the United Kingdom will continue to urge the Libyan authorities to address the compensation claims of British victims. We will remain focused on supporting UN-led efforts to achieve stability and unity.
I would also like to address the proposal to use tax. People have mentioned the G7 efforts, and even that is quite complicated, as the noble Lord, Lord Caine, pointed out. For example, the UK tax collected on frozen assets goes into the Government’s consolidated fund, which is used for essential public services. The real issue is that diverting these vital public funds would not hold the Gaddafi regime accountable for supporting the IRA.
Let me also address concerns raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and the noble Lord, Lord Bew, about the Shawcross report. Since its completion under the previous Government in 2021, there have been consistent calls for its publication from victims, their representatives and parliamentarians. This Government understand the public interest in this report and the previous concern regarding transparency on the issue.
We are actively considering whether elements of this report can be published. As the noble Lord, Lord Caine, pointed out, as this report was commissioned as an internal document to provide advice to Ministers and draws on private and confidential conversations, its release would have damaging implications for the UK’s national security and international relations. Therefore, this process is not straightforward. But I know that it is important, as the noble Lord, Lord Bew, indicated, that to be as transparent as possible with the public it is better to explain the difficulties and complexities behind the issues. This includes the challenges of obtaining compensation from a divided and fragmented Libya, and defining the parameters for identifying the British victims of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism and how this report adds to the wider debate on support for people who have lost loved ones during the Troubles. That is why I reiterate that this Government are committed to being as transparent as possible over this issue.
The noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, mentioned the letter written from representatives of victims of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA terrorism to the Prime Minister. It has been received, but it requires cross-Whitehall consideration. That is being given, and the Government will respond to it as soon as possible. Let me reassure her and other noble Lords that Hamish Falconer, the Minister for Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan and Pakistan, wrote to some of the victims and their families earlier this week. He has extended an invitation to meet them to convey this Government’s position in greater detail and for him to better understand their perspectives, too. Also, let me reassure the noble Baroness that this engagement will not be a one-off occasion, as this Government are committed to a constructive and collaborative engagement with those affected.
The noble Lord, Lord Bew, also raised the question of Kneecap. I think my noble friend the Leader of the House responded very strongly to that yesterday, making very clear how abhorrent and dangerous the comments were. She also specifically mentioned that their so-called apology was totally inadequate, and I think that that is really important.
Despite this being a Question for Short Debate, I think we have covered as much as possible in the time permitted. I want to reassure noble Lords and repeat—I know that this is not a partisan issue and that we have been working collaboratively across the Room—that this Government are committed to supporting the victims of IRA terrorism. We will be open and transparent about our efforts, and continue to press the Libyan authorities to address their country’s historic responsibility for the Gaddafi regime’s support for the IRA.
Lord Empey (UUP)
I just want to say to the Minister that I do not think there is any fundamental disagreement in the Room about where we should be going, but we have been getting the answers that he gave on the status quo about the legalities and so on for 10 or 12 years. Whenever compensation has been mentioned, elements in Libya have attacked the group here in Parliament, attacked this country and said that it is their money and they want it back. They wanted to go to the United Nations to get the Security Council to release it. The United Kingdom has a veto. Will we use it?
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I have a very strong opinion about the use of veto. Of course, the last time it was used—and it has been used very frequently recently—was by Russia in stopping an incredibly important resolution on Sudan. The United Kingdom does not use its veto lightly, and we certainly will not do that. What we are trying to do on this question is to ensure that we have collaboration, co-operation and understanding to move forward.
I will say this: when we are talking about Libya, we are not talking about a state at the moment, or a state such as Russia that has committed a breach of the United Nations charter. We are talking about a fragmented, difficult country where the people have suffered over many years. What we want to do is speak to the authorities. When we try to achieve a united and more coherent country, then we can properly address those compensation claims which the Libyan country is responsible for.
Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)
I am very pleased that the Minister said—I think—that they are still considering whether the elements of the Shawcross report can be published. On the legal issue, surely the best legal minds of His Majesty’s Government should be sitting down in a working party group with the victims’ best legal representatives—who are very good legal minds indeed, as I am sure the Minister knows—and working out the possibilities of what can actually be done without breaking international law.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I have no doubt that, when Hamish Falconer meets the representatives and others, he will give all consideration to the points made. But I repeat that this is a complex issue. I think there are big differences between the Russian Federation breaking the UN charter as a state and the current situation in Libya. It is very different. Nevertheless, we have been very clear about the need for Libya to take responsibility for the actions of its previous Government. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Caine, we are continuing to urge Libya to do that.