Bereavement Benefits

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 11th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, Brexit will have no effect on this.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, we have so far been considering the very young, but bereavement is a disabling condition that makes it very difficult for elderly people to manage their affairs. Can my noble friend assure us that people who qualify will be notified in simple language about the amount of their entitlement and the time it will last? Furthermore, would it not be a good idea to issue a warning notice or a reminder for those who may have lost track of what is happening, say a month before it ends?

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, when an individual registers the death of their spouse or civil partner, the registrar provides information on how to contact the Department for Work and Pensions bereavement service. That includes giving advice on what benefits will be available, including the bereavement support payment. The time limit for claiming the initial lump sum is now more generous, at 12 months from the date of death—that is £2,500 for those who do not have dependent children and £3,500 for those who do. The time limit is three months from the date of death for claiming the additional monthly bereavement support payment, which is £100 a month for 18 months for those without children and £350 for those with dependent children. We take every opportunity to encourage claimants to make a claim for bereavement support as early as possible.

Universal Credit

Lord Elton Excerpts

Thursday 23rd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, it is the function of Oppositions to pour cold water on the efforts of the Government, even when there are elements to please them. I think that my noble friend the Minister will agree that the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, made a very responsible response in an extraordinary context in which there are attacks on this policy, inside and outside Parliament, that are entirely unjustified. I wonder whether my noble friend heard on Saturday, on the “Today” programme, the assertion, widely repeated thereafter in the media, that on Christmas day 100,000 people would lose their universal credit. Can she put that straight? Since I am allowed on my feet only once, can she also tell us what is being done to steer people taking on advance payments in the direction of debt management counselling? I take the point about the dangers of increasing debt.

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his support. He is quite right about the noble Baroness opposite, who, of course, knows so much about this system and the whole system of social security—and I pay tribute to her for that. But the reality is, I genuinely feel, that these attacks are unjustified, as my noble friend said. Indeed, I think that he referred to the “Money Box” programme with Paul Lewis, which stated that 100,000 people would not receive something over Christmas. That is so wrong. We are looking to “Money Box” at the moment to correct that and apologise. I have always put a lot of trust in that programme, but now I say loudly and clearly to Paul Lewis that the jury is out. I look forward to him responding in a far more positive way, because it is simply not true and is continually adding to the scaremongering.

We are hearing about people who are afraid to go on universal credit now, and that is appalling. We need to get behind the system, and we are doing everything that we can to make it work. We are trying to transform people’s lives and get them out of that system of being trapped in appalling welfare dependency, with no confidence and isolation in their lives. We want to transform their lives and we are doing everything that we can to do that.

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Lord Elton Excerpts

Tuesday 12th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, I have a fraction of the knowledge and experience in this field of the noble Baroness, and I am tempted from my seat only by her final remarks and those she made early on. I remind her that this is not the United States and, on the whole, we behave differently here. My experience of right to buy, which is a little greater than my experience in the rest of this field, is that when it started, you could tell which were the right-to-buy houses by the brightly painted doors, the clean net curtains, window boxes and the flowers. Going round the same estates, I now observe that the same doors are brightly painted, with clean net curtains and window boxes with flowers. The whole picture is not as gloomy as the noble Baroness suggested. I make no comment on the rest of her speech, but that makes me listen to it with a little more doubt.

[Baroness Hollis of Heigham]

My Lords, to respond to the noble Lord, the latest estimate is that 60% or more of property sold under RTB is now in the private rented sector, it is no longer occupied by the people who bought it.

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

Debate on whether Clause 3 should stand part of the Bill.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, I would like to express appreciation for the troubled families programme as a whole, since we are now leaving it. Whatever the questions about causality, things have changed very considerably in the course of its existence and very many families have benefited from it. Moreover, it is the result of the Prime Minister leaving a Minister in the place where he knows the job for long enough to do it. I reckon this is a very important occasion and a very great benefit of which we should all be grateful.

Clause 3 agreed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Beecham]

The noble Lord, Lord Lansley, prayed in aid the state of public opinion about the benefits system. My noble friend Lady Hollis rightly corrected that. In addition to opinion polls, which have proved less than infallible in recent times, we should have a fact poll. We could then gauge what people really know about the issues that the country and individuals face. As my noble friend pointed out, there is a wide misapprehension about this issue as well as many others affecting the benefits system.

We are moving from a position in which the cap was related to average earnings to a different system. By sheer coincidence, perhaps, that move is taking place at a time when, after a long period in which average earnings have not risen, they have at last begun to rise. I suspect that this overdue rise in incomes, which would otherwise have affected benefits, has triggered the change that the Government are proposing. As other noble Lords have pointed out, and as we shall no doubt hear again during the Bill’s proceedings, one of the principal problems that families face is the very high level of rents in the private sector and the difficulty of obtaining alternative accommodation at a reasonable rent. So these incomes are very much under pressure, with or without benefits. We are not talking about excessive amounts of money; £20,000 for couples and lone parents outside London is not the kind of money that enables people to live a life of luxury—far from it.

These amendments do not destroy the system but try to impose some criteria by which the benefits cap should be assessed. What on earth can be wrong with the suggestion in Amendment 92 that the Secretary of State must take into account,

“the relationship between the level of benefit cap and median household income”,

the impact of the cap on households, local and public authorities and registered social landlords? What is there to object to in that proposal being a matter for consideration?

[Lord Elton (Con)]

May I tell the noble Lord my view, which is appropriate on occasions such as this? The longer a list, the more clear it is that things that are not included are not to be considered. That is counterproductive. The shorter the list, the more flexible it is.

[Lord Beecham]

If I may say so, that takes for granted the propensity of Governments in general, and this Government in particular, to look at a wide range of issues. Frankly, on the evidence of the last few years, I do not think that that is a plausible argument. Why should it not be on the record, as proposed in Amendment 93, that the Secretary of State should take into account,

“the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of children”,

in his review of the benefit cap? Similarly, Amendment 94 proposes that the Secretary of State must take into account,

“the impact of the benefit cap on disabled people, their families and carers”.

If these issues are taken into account, the Government lose nothing by it, but if they are not, or if there is a risk that they will not be, then they should surely be part of the process.

If the Minister is going to resist the amendments, I cannot understand why. They do not dispense with the possibility of having a cap. In this context, and in others, I repeat: one of the principal problems is the cost of private rented housing, in which very many people who rely on benefits are found. We will return to that later, but we should not forget it even as we look at these amendments, which I commend and support.

Disabled People: Independent Living

Lord Elton Excerpts

Tuesday 17th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, when will the Government take steps to make it the norm that people dependent on local authority support have a nominated member of the support team as their principal carer so that they establish a continuous relationship with somebody in the outside world?

[Baroness Altmann]

My Lords, the Government believe that local authorities are best placed to decide what intervention and support disabled people require. I should add that all Independent Living Fund users had one-to-one visits, and reports were sent to local authorities before the scheme was closed.

Social Mobility: Public Schools

Lord Elton Excerpts

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

That is a very good question and I know that many people in government—principally the Deputy Prime Minister—are focusing on how to make that more accessible through the internship programme, through ensuring broader and fairer access and through the business compact programme, where more employers are encouraged to sign up and have fairer and more inclusive recruitment policies. It has to be said that it is not just the Government having this problem. It runs right across society and is in the media, in corporations, in medicine and in the judiciary, all of which need to act to make sure that their access policies are as fair as possible to all.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, if, as has been conclusively demonstrated, the private education system is better than the public one and provides a portal into all sorts of social and economic advantages, surely we should be trying to get more and more private education, and more and more people drawn into it from those classes which are at present excluded. The way to do that is not to cut off the funding but to increase it.

[Lord Bates]

My noble friend has great knowledge and insight in this area—and so do I. In my experience the greatest difference between our leading independent schools and the inner-city comprehensives, one of which I attended, is the level of expectations not only among the teachers or parents but, chiefly, among the pupils themselves as to what they can actually achieve. That is what we need to improve.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 15th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, I was very pleased to add my name to this group of amendments. I thank the Government for listening and recognising that action should be taken in order to get rid of this last inequality, which in my view is an anomaly. However, it is of course right that consultation, a review and an assessment should be undertaken before any final action is taken. I especially thank the Minister, who steered through the discussions on the compromise with her usual aplomb, skill and understanding. I am glad that we can all agree that this is the best way forward.

[Lord Elton]

Before the noble Baroness sits down, since there is no opportunity for a Back-Bencher to join in after that, and she sprang rather quickly to her feet, I wish to say that I welcomed the attempt to produce equality in this aspect of the Bill at each stage and that I am particularly glad to support it now. Perhaps it is best to pass over the rest of the debate we have heard.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Lord Elton Excerpts

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton]

My Lords, I am seeking to obey the rules of the House and not repeat things said in Committee.

Faith schools teach children. I say that because my county of Lancashire, where I chaired the Education Committee for 10 years, had the largest percentage and number of faith schools. I should point out that not all parents in counties such as Lancashire choose faith schools. They are the nearest schools, and parents cannot choose to have their children’s travel to a non-faith school paid for, whereas they could be paid for travel to a faith school. I tell the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, that that is the case. Noble Lords have referred to the fact that the option for faith school education entitled children’s travel to be paid for.

However, faith schools seek to teach the whole community, wherever they are. I have been around for so long that I remember Faith in the City, Geoffrey Duncan and those who argued that the role of faith schools was to teach the whole community in which they were located. Some of the faith schools in Lancashire had a majority of Muslim pupils, and probably still do. However, those schools taught the children. That was the issue—the teaching of the children. The confidence of those Muslim parents was based on the fact that the school would respect the views of the parents as well as teach the children about the beliefs of that community. Some noble Lords in this debate have spoken as though this legislation will create a new set of circumstances among the communities, the families and the friends of the children who go to the school. That is not the case: this legislation recognises what is happening in our communities. It may be giving a new name to civil partnerships, but those relationships actually exist now in the families, homes and communities of the children who will be in the schools.

I have tremendous respect for the aims of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leicester. In fact, many years ago, the Bishop of Leicester gave a lecture at my wedding on the importance of marriage and education, but it was not the right reverend Prelate who is with us tonight. I have been married too long for it to be this young right reverend Prelate.

I listened very carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Baker, although I did not always listen to him, when he was in office in government. He explained that we do not need to change the 1996 Act to secure the benefits that the right reverend Prelate is seeking to achieve. Some noble Lords have talked as though our schools are places where ideas are promoted. These days, even young children, and certainly 13 year-olds, will ask questions; but the idea that a teacher can go into a classroom and tell children of 13 what to think or know is pretty ludicrous. Those children are growing up in the world; they recognise it. In fact, we are recognising the world of those children who recognise it.

A 12 year-old said to me, “What are you doing in the House of Lords?” I said, “Same-sex marriage”. The child said, “Why should there be any argument about that—who is arguing?” I said, “Well—some of the people from religious backgrounds.” The child said to me, “You know, I could go off God.” That was a child in a church school in rural Essex. I said, “You really mustn’t blame God for what some of the religious followers say. It isn’t always God who is wrong; it may be their interpretation.” I hope that the right reverend Prelate will not feel the need to press his amendment and that the Minister will be able to assuage any fears he feels.

In closing, I want to say how important it is that all children in all our schools—and I am certain that the denominational schools feel this—ought to be able to love and respect all members of their communities and families. Those children know that those people are there now. Perhaps we are a bit late in recognising it.

[Lord Elton]

I hope that my noble friend will be able to clarify for us the perceived conflict between the guidance and the documents—the names of which I forget—under which the faith schools have to operate. It seems to me that what these amendments ask is not the big thing it is suggested it is. Surely it must be right for church and other faith schools to teach about the world as it is and as it changes. The world is changing, but faiths do not necessarily change at the same rate or, indeed, at all. However, they are part of the world and therefore must be taught.

What is at issue is whether there can be recruiting or promoting of the particular faith—it need not be Christianity—or the particular orientation, which need not be heterosexuality. That is what is at issue. I would like my noble friend to assure us that there is a legally proof way through this which preserves the right of all faiths to explain to children what the tenets of that faith are while at the same time addressing the actual world which the children will grow up into without being in fear of being in breach of the law. I believe I am right in saying that the original concern of the right reverend Prelate was not so much with teachers as with the foundations. We have not heard so much about them, but this has to be available as a protection to the foundations of schools. In my view, it should not be phrased in such a way as to threaten in any way the intentions of this Bill.

[The Lord Bishop of Winchester]

My Lords, I support the right reverend Prelate’s amendment. Neither the equal marriage Bill nor this amendment would change the doctrinal position of religious organisations. In fact, the Bill recognises in Clause 1(3) that the doctrine of the Church of England remains that marriage is the union of one man and one woman.

This amendment is about religious educational institutions, as the right reverend Prelate has said, operating within the ethos of their faith and charitable foundations, while giving due regard to the breadth of opinion on the nature of marriage, including equal marriage. It ensures a true diversity while allowing for a particular perspective to be honoured. The Human Rights Act, Articles 9 and 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights and Section 403 of the Education Act 1996 may seem to preserve religious freedom or the exercise of discretion in selecting materials for SRE teaching, but the legal process proving that, if these freedoms are challenged, might be lengthy and very expensive. It is better to amend at this stage and thus resolve the conflict between different legal requirements.

The amendment will protect and promote religious freedom, and thereby enable the ongoing contribution to the common good of the religious traditions and diversities of this country. Marriage makes a great and fundamental contribution to our society. It is better that all views are included and encouraged for all to flourish. There is no homophobic Trojan horse in this amendment; rather, there is a recognition of true diversity of opinion. God willing, we will move beyond homophobic attitudes, and this amendment is one way to do that. It would ensure that true diversity is taught in a faith context and would provide formation for the almost 1 million children for whom the Church of England is responsible in its schools.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, perhaps I might come to the noble Earl’s aid to some extent. I support his request for evidence-based research, and will add that the evidence presented should be tested. I am well aware of a body of research put forward to the Government during their initial inquiries before they drafted the Bill which was very seriously challenged by apparently well qualified people. The challenge was never answered or rebutted. I will happily write to the Minister about this because it should be looked into further. Where advocates of a cause commission or present research, it is as well to test it very carefully before taking it at face value.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon]

I rise briefly to say that, in the next amendment, I will produce some evidence-based research that very much supports the concerns of the noble Earl, Lord Listowel.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Lord Elton Excerpts

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, I remind my noble friend that we are advised to make friends of both God and Mammon. In this context, we are under the shadow of an enormous majority in the Second Reading debate, in which the House accepted the principle of equality. In Committee, I sought to apply that principle to the process of converting a civil partnership into a marriage by requiring those undergoing that process to swear an oath similar to that sworn by those getting married. I withdrew it partly at the request of my noble friend on the Front Bench and partly out of prudence in order to consider it before the next stage, which is the current stage. My noble friend was ahead of me at the Dispatch Box with an arrangement which comes just about to the same place with regard to my marriage—or, rather, to my amendment.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Elton]

I assure noble Lords that it is very difficult to get close to my marriage. My noble friend put forward an arrangement that gave the Government time to think and gave the Secretary of State the power to review and to act if it seemed appropriate. I think I was a little ungracious in moving my own amendment because I was so pleased with how clever my own drafting had been. However, that was the principle that I sought to support.

I was rather surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Alli, who had been quite supportive of my amendment in Committee, came forward with all sorts of reservations and was unable to support it earlier. Your Lordships will now be expecting me, with a certain satisfaction, to say that I cannot follow him so far. However, I am a man of principle, and I think that we need to have equality through this Bill. Amendment 84A gives the Government the power to pull out of this if necessary. I remind them that, during the time that they are considering, reviewing and consulting, they might go through the same reviews and consultations with the insurers as they have done over, for instance, flooding. The Government are used to talking to insurance companies and can at least find out where the shoe pinches, and this amendment would allow them to do so. I do not support the first amendment in this group, which locks them in, but I believe that the second one is a reasonable proposal, which honours the principle that we reluctantly have accepted; but, having accepted it, I think we should be gracious about it.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, I support the first amendment for reasons of principle, about which the noble Lords have spoken. The principle of equality is very important. It seems to me that, in Committee, the Minister was unable to respond with any arguments at all based on principle. They were purely pragmatic arguments, which I do not think noble Lords found very convincing.

Amendment 84A, which I support, is very much in line with the recommendation of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, which argued that,

“we consider that the Government should carry out a full review of pension provisions in relation to survivor pension benefit entitlements of same sex married couples and civil partners to ensure that there is no unjustifiable discrimination in pension scheme provisions”.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 8th July 2013 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Elton]

55: Clause 9, page 10, line 28, at end insert—
“(3A) Regulations under subsections (1) and (2) shall in particular provide that the conversion of a civil partnership to a marriage shall take place in a registered building with open doors in the presence of two or more witnesses and in the presence of either—
(a) a registrar of the registration district in which the registered building is situated, or(b) an authorised person whose name and address have been certified in accordance with the regulations by the trustees or governing body of that registered building or of some other registered building in the same registration district.(3B) Where the conversion of a civil partnership to a marriage takes place in a registered building each of the parties to the civil partnership shall, in some part of the ceremony and in the presence of the witnesses and the registrar or authorised person, make the following declaration—
(none) “I do solemnly declare that I know not of any lawful impediment why I, AB, may not be joined in matrimony to CD.”and each of them shall say to the other—(none) “I call upon these persons here present to witness that I, AB, do take thee, CD, to be my lawful wedded wife (or husband)”.(3C) As an alternative to the declaration set out in subsection (3B) the persons contracting the marriage may make the requisite declaration either—
(a) by saying “I declare that I know of no legal reason why I (name) may not be joined in marriage to (name)”; or(b) by replying “I am” to the question put to them successively “Are you (name) free lawfully to marry (name)?”;and as an alternative to the words of contract set out in that subsection the persons to be married may say to each other “I () take you ( thee) () to be my wedded wife (husband)”.”

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, the lateness of the hour and my fatigue make it certain that I shall not take as much of your Lordships’ time as I should like to because I regard this as an important amendment. My intention is simply to strengthen the Bill, which may come as a surprise to noble Lords opposite who have the feeling that anything that comes from people like me is bound to be in some way sinister. How exaggerated are the head shakes that I see, but they are welcome none the less.

The Bill addresses an acknowledged evil. It is a rift in our society that needs to be mended. The tragedy is that the way in which it has been introduced has made it much harder to implement. However, that makes me keener for the Bill to do the job effectively. When the civil partnership legislation was introduced, it was generally understood that civil partnerships were to be taken as the equivalent of marriage and conferred equal status. However, that did not happen. The Bill needs to produce a status that is the equivalent of marriage. Given that it can be done no other way, some of us have reluctantly come to the view that the status must also be marriage.

--- Later in debate ---

We have had a very sympathetic discussion in this debate as we look forward to the conversions to marriage. That is very encouraging. I hope that my noble friend will be willing to withdraw his amendment in the light of the government amendments that we agreed earlier and that he will be pleased that Parliament will have the opportunity to consider the detail of the process in due course. I am sure that we will have interesting debates at that time. I therefore hope that my noble friend will be content to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, my noble friend leaves me in a quandary. I think I am right in saying that the consultation will not bear fruit until after the Bill has passed through Parliament. If I can address the arguments that have been made, my feeling is that the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, dealt fairly effectively with the noble Lord, Lord Alli—or rather with his arguments, not necessarily with him. The costs can be minimal.

Too much has been made of the barrier. It is not a barrier: it is an escalator. It is something very easy to get on to that gets you where you want to be. That is what the Bill is for: to open up marriage to people who want it and who could not get it until now. If that is what we are committed to, we must have some means of doing it. We could leave it to the Secretary of State. I am glad that it will not be the Registrar General and I am glad that it will be subject to the affirmative procedure. But I think as a matter of principle that the vows should be the same in both instances.

I know what enormous irritation one goes home with if the Chief Whip has kept both sides in the House for so long and then there is no vote. All things considered, I would like to take the opinion of the House.