Brexit: Irish Border

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Tuesday 5th December 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what response they have received from the European Union negotiating team to their proposals on the Irish border problem.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, there is much agreement between the UK and the EU on the proposals for how to address the unique circumstances of Northern Ireland and Ireland in the light of the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union. We remain firmly committed to avoiding any physical infrastructure on the land border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. We welcome the Commission’s commitment to this in its guiding principles paper.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, see how grateful the DUP is for the £1 billion of taxpayers’ money to keep Mrs May in power without any real mandate. Will the Minister please tell Mrs May what is now obvious: Brexit is becoming a total disaster and the PM must now save our country’s future and the precious Anglo-Irish agreement?

[Lord Callanan]

I congratulate the noble Lord on having the foresight to get a Question on this on the Order Paper for today. He will be unsurprised to know that I do not agree with him. There was a referendum on the subject. We feel we have to respect the results of that referendum.

European Union

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Monday 6th November 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have had any discussions with the European Commission about its proposals for the future of the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, until exit negotiations are concluded, the UK remains a full member of the European Union, and all the rights and obligations of EU membership remain in force. During this period, the Government will also continue to negotiate, implement and apply EU legislation. We have been engaged in discussions about the future of Europe, including through our input into the Commission work programme 2018, through conversations at COREPER and at the recent General Affairs Council in October.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

I thank the Minister for that helpful Answer. Bearing in mind that paragraphs 9 and 10 of the Prime Minister’s Florence speech were a massive paean of praise for the Commission and the European Union sovereign member states’ future plans for modernisation and development, why do we not join in that excitement and work with them on a long-term basis, not least because Brexit is getting more and more problematical?

[Lord Callanan]

Because we will not be a member in the long term, my Lords.

European Union: Final Withdrawal Agreement

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Thursday 26th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the question has been asked before of Ministers in both Houses, and the answer remains the same. We have committed to give both Houses a meaningful vote on the withdrawal agreement and we have now extended that to cover an implementation period and our future relationship. That is the undertaking: it has been made clear to the public as well that we will honour the decision in the referendum but seek the best agreement we can. That means that as we reach March 2019, we and, I hope, all those in this House will have done our best to reach the right agreement and therefore any discussion about how we then proceed will become irrelevant. The vital thing as we prepare to leave is that if there is no agreement, this Government will have made all due preparation to be able to cope with that. That is what we have been doing, as I have been explaining, over the last two months.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that her answers are a bit too long and do not allow enough people to get in on these occasions, which are very important? Was she impressed two days ago with the interesting comments of Mayor Bloomberg—a very successful international businessman and ex-mayor of New York—that the decision of the Government to leave the European Union was as stupid as Donald Trump, the President of the United States?

[Noble Lords]

Too long!

[Lord Dykes]

Will she now ask her colleagues to think again about these matters, as the Government become more and more of a laughing stock, and decide what to do in the real interests of this country?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, Governments always listen to views. I am known for never having called anybody’s views stupid. Even if I disagree with them, I listen and reflect. That is what I have always done and I shall always continue to do so.

Brexit: Financial Settlement

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Thursday 12th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am struck by the way the negotiating teams are carrying forward the interests of their countries as a united front. Whatever the media like to report, the fact is that decisions taken are done so at Cabinet level in unity.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister please be candid with the House? Can she say whether anything substantial or major has been definitively agreed in phase 1? Can she give some examples and assure a doubting Chamber?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I have given several examples in the past and I am happy to give some of the latest now, but until there is a full agreement there is nothing agreed. To give an example of the agreements so far, we have agreed most aspects of social security co-ordination, which means that we have confirmed that EU and UK citizens will continue to benefit from the co-ordination rules for aggregating contributions made in the EU and the UK, both before and after exit, and the rights that flow from such contributions with regards to an uprated state pension and reciprocal healthcare. I am very grateful to the noble Lord for asking for detail.

Brexit

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their current assessment of the prospects for reaching a Brexit agreement with the European Union by March 2019.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, as the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU said when closing the fourth round of negotiations, we have made considerable progress on the issues that matter, increasing certainty for citizens and businesses. Thanks to the constructive and determined manner of both sides in negotiations, we are making decisive steps forward. Both parties want to achieve the best possible outcome and the strongest possible partnership for the future by March 2019.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

Yes, but when are the Government, at long last, going to produce viable proposals for the Irish border which will also be acceptable to the Irish Government and the Dáil?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, there has been a very firm, fair and collaborative discussion about the issue of Northern Ireland. The most recent discussions continue to be constructive and we have made progress in some areas. For example, we have begun drafting joint principles on preserving the common travel area and associated rights, and have continued building on the general principles of ensuring that there is no hindrance at the border.

Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Wednesday 13th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the person in charge of the negotiations at the Commission, Michel Barnier, has, I think, spoken twice to the European Parliament. He does have confidential meetings with a self-selecting group. This House has been much better served for information than has the European Parliament by a country mile.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister at least give a preliminary indication of how the Government will solve the Irish border problem?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, last night I was able to answer a significant question from the noble Lord, Lord Jay, about what happens next. I set out a couple of points where there are technical issues to be resolved but also pointed out that after the last round of negotiations we were able to provide a whole area where there is convergence. However, when I asked where there was no convergence between the position of the EU and the UK, the answer was none—we are converging.

UK and EU Relations

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

I followed very closely the wise words of the noble Lord, Lord Taverne, and shared his feeling of gloom about the economic situation, which is the dreadful background to the paralysis which the Government are now going through, without admitting it, on these impossible negotiations. The situation is now so bad that one shares the views of Ian McEwan, that very famous brilliant author, who has been joining a lot of the marches and demonstrations against Brexit, and is a fervent European and remains so. He says: “I still say to myself when I get up in the morning, I can’t believe that it’s happening. It’s a dream. No, it’s a nightmare. It can’t be happening that the Government is pursuing such a foolish course”. I share that view as well.

It is a pleasure to follow the equally wise words of the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, with his vast experience of the European Parliament. I hope he agrees that when the European Parliament decides to express its view on the negotiations—if it can actually proceed to some kind of tangible conclusion, and that is a big if—I doubt very much whether it will show much enthusiasm for what the British Government appear to be preparing to propose, on the basis of the very flimsy collection of words that we have already. I agree with the criticisms that have been made in this debate about the flimsy nature of the Government’s various little booklets on negotiation policy areas and so on. They do not really amount to much other than mainly blue-sky—or dark-green-sky—thinking instead of wise and tangible specific proposals about how to proceed.

I was beginning to muse that, instead of having the Department for Exiting the European Union, the name should be changed back to “DTI”, because then we could emphasise the second stage of the Government’s wishes, which are still unachievable with what is going on so far—namely, building up some kind of trade situation. But I do not mean “DTI” in that old sense; I mean the department of total insanity, with what is going on with these negotiations. They are totally stuck. The Government do not know what to do further, and there is no reason why the EU should respond by saying, “We will make it easier for you by bending forward with these daft ideas and trying to help you out of your own mess”—a mess created by this Government’s maladroit decisions, and by an inexperienced and clumsy Prime Minister who has lost a mandate now as a result of the 8 June election. That mandate to pursue Brexit was writ large in the first election campaign and in the words of her manifesto in the second election campaign, but completely destroyed by the vote. Even Sky News said—and its announcements are not normally taken with this kind of direction in mind—that a majority of people in that total vote for all parties voted strongly to remain.

That applies particularly to the younger voters in this country. When the next decision comes forward in due course, sadly and according to the laws of nature, several millions of people who took part in these votes so far will have passed away, into heaven I hope. Two million youngsters, including the ones who will be voting at an earlier age in any decision that will be made, will be voting for the first time, and we know what their views are. We know why they are supporting the Labour Party more. That tallies not only with their domestic political priorities, but with what they think about Brexit: a total disaster facing this country.

The Government are responsible for this nightmare and they have to respond to the growing feeling of dislike about what is going on and what is being so-called “negotiated”. It is not really being negotiated properly. There is no confidence at all in the Ministers in charge of this process. They cannot even speak French to have a discussion in another language just for a change, like all our other EU colleagues can do vis-à-vis ourselves. It is such a depressing scene that I find it very difficult to really concentrate on what the Government are actually saying because none of it is realistic.

I conclude with the Irish question, raised quite rightly by the noble Lord, Lord Wigley. It is a matter of huge concern because anything the British Government propose is literally undoable. Nothing the Government propose will be able to succeed without damaging at the margin at least, and probably a very big margin, the rights of Ireland as a free state in the EU to have those EU powers and privileges which it now possesses. That border situation therefore is unachievable without some kind of miracle which no one yet has been able to propose.

Finally, I am also worried about the link between this Government and the DUP. The only way for this ailing, weak Government, who have less of a mandate now than before and no sense of realism at all, to proceed in Parliament is with the support of a fairly dodgy and questionable group of politicians—if I may put it like that without sounding too harsh—in the DUP. There is a Tammany Hall snag to this, too, because along with the questionable alliance the DUP is also a party to the Anglo-Irish treaty. Without a functioning Stormont Administration, there are serious questions about policy formation and money usage. If we had a written constitution in this country—I fervently hope to get a better voting system in future as well—that would not be possible. It would be illegal in most serious European countries. Should a £1 billion bribe be used for public budget purposes to keep a weak Government in power artificially? I think not. These matters will come home to haunt the Government in future and I urge them to think again.

Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2017 Grand Committee

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty's Government what plans they have to bring regular reports before Parliament on the progress of the negotiations for Brexit.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, one of the features of my last visit to New York was a snippet of New York traditional humour. I was very impressed that the definition of a real optimist was a 95 year-old man who got married for the eighth time and bought a new house near a school. The Government need even more optimism than that to get through this nightmare of Brexit. The less congenial part of this, for me, is having to sound curmudgeonly to a very distinguished Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay. We thank her for coming today and we look forward to her responses, but it is always a problem to deal with someone who has such an excellent reputation as a very hard-working Minister. So I apologise in advance for everything I say if the Minister—unsurprisingly— disagrees a little with it.

The Government do not realise how impossibly complicated this process will be. That is why the reports now need to accelerate and be much stronger and more regular in the light of all those coming to speak in this debate. I believe that the two representatives of the EU Committee are the noble Lords, Lord Jay and Lord Teverson, and I hope they will quite rightly ask the Government to promise that the EU Committee is kept well informed about what goes on. We hope that the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, will soon be back as the chairman.

The Government have lost their original mandate from the decision of 23 June 2016 because of the 8 June election this year. They cannot proceed legitimately—possibly even legally, particularly if we had a written constitution, which of course we do not have. The Bill being debated today in the Commons and on Monday grants those sinister Henry VIII powers on secondary legislation, which will not be accepted by Parliament. A minority Government, which is what they are, dependent on a peculiar DUP grouping of Protestant hard-liners in Belfast, cannot possibly enforce their decisions against the true democratic majority increasingly revolted—as are the public—by this daft plan to leave the European Union. The prospect of leaving is alarming mainly the representatives of UK industry, farming and commerce, and particularly major exporters to the EU. The idea that this will not grow from now on—it will keep coming back to haunt the Government—is daft, if that is what some Ministers still think.

The immigration issues are even more painful. All the way through, it was extraordinary that the Government, unlike other EU member states, for some bizarre reason avoided using the existing powers in the treaty of Rome—now the TFEU—to limit immigration from other EU countries if they wanted to. Guess who was the Home Office Minister in charge at the time: a lady called Theresa May—so it is even more strange.

On 7 March this year I asked the Home Office Minister in the Lords why the powers, mostly under Clause 45, were not invoked, which would have softened the irrational hostility to migrants in this country. She did not answer but said she could not be responsible for what had happened in the past. So much for Tory government continuity on main policy areas. They failed repeatedly to use the treaty three-month rule, and then in a panic reverted to Cameron’s unachievable tens of thousands formula, which, incredibly, is still being repeated by a lady called Theresa May.

I will quickly refer to Article 50 again. In response to Questions in the Lords on 19 December last year, the Minister used the word “instructed”, a word that is illicit or perhaps even illegal—it would be if we had a written constitution—as the referendum was an advisory opinion only. Of course, anti-EU Tories said they would accept the result and act on it. However, the then Government were elected with a net small majority but only by just under a quarter of the qualified voting public, which excluded the youngest voters—hardly a democratic basis in law. In the same exchanges, the peculiar invocation of a red, white and blue Brexit by Mrs May was described as red for the millions of dead in two world wars followed by six decades of peace thanks to the EU; white for the cowardly slide in this country into irrational xenophobia; and blue, representing just the Tory interest, mostly older people—a party which now has a membership base less than one-fifth of that of the main opposition party in the Commons.

The emotional background is even more striking. With Ministers floundering and dreading the growing public revulsion at this monumental disaster looming over this country, we recall the effects of what the noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, described as the continuing “cancer” literally threatening to destroy the Tory party in the future. Ministers have ignored the sensible voices and opted to listen only to the dark voices of reaction, prejudice and ignorance, as well as a few genuine believers in a mystical and old-fashioned independence, which no longer exists in reality for any country, even the United States.

For once—and it surprised me at the time—the Prime Minister expressed it with accuracy in her article of 8 January this year in, of all places, the Sunday Telegraph, saying that people,

“did not simply vote to withdraw from the European Union; they voted to change the way our country works … forever”,

and were disgruntled by economic and social setbacks in their lives. Apart from immigration, this is probably the main reason why people did vote—to give the Government a kick, which is what they tend to do in referendums if they are feeling fed up with lots of things, as people are in this country now. That is fair enough but why should the Government take it out on our membership of the most successful trading system in the world?

In the brilliant four-page “Why we are still angry” special in the New European newspaper on 10 to 16 February this year, the second of the four whys reminded us that,

“every one of the reasons given to persuade Leavers to vote for Brexit is a lie”.

Let us note the voices of good old British common sense, of people who are beginning to wake up to what is happening in this country with this daft policy of Brexit, such as John Cole, a citizen from Shipley, West Yorkshire, who stated in the Guardian in January this year that the referendum,

“was only ever advisory. The government had no obligation to act on the outcome, especially when it was so close. Any golf club or musical society requires a super-majority for significant constitutional change … the government has grossly overinterpreted the result”.

He must have been thinking about the fateful utterance of the infamous words after the previous election that “Brexit means Brexit” by an inexperienced and maladroit Prime Minister in the heat of the moment.

There are now very difficult questions facing the Government and they have to be faced up to from now on, with regular reports to Parliament, both the Lords and the Commons. We know that in both places the majority against Brexit is growing. In the Lords I believe the majority against leaving Europe is very large indeed, among all groups and parties.

How do we avoid hard Brexit? As the negotiations have now started at last, some eight weeks later than if there had been no election, the earlier strong fears that Theresa May would be happy to opt for a hard Brexit—a no deal at all kind of outcome—have happily receded somewhat, only because of the gradual evolution of some common sense among some Ministers. I will avoid naming names. It does not apply to all who are involved in this exercise.

As early as 21 February this year, in the debate on the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill in the Lords, the highly respected Cross-Bench Peer, the noble Lord, Lord Low of Dalston, said that there was “no question” of just ignoring the referendum. However, he rejected absolutely the concept of the hard exit, or Brexit, which had not been mandated. He added,

“there is no way that I am going to vote for triggering a negotiation designed to achieve a hard Brexit, which is likely to be so damaging for our country”,—[Official Report, 21/2/17; col. 222.]

for reasons he went on to explain in some detail. He also went on to attack the approach as a cavalier disregard of the 48% of voters, then and now a figure that is growing, who are against this daft policy.

On 6 July I argued that the original Brexit mandate had lapsed long since the 8 June outcome. Indeed, the results of that election are striking. Even Sky News in its analysis said that there was a built-in majority against Brexit in the overall result of all the electors voting for the political groups. Of course, we had new younger voters coming in for the first time as well, who signalled a very significant change. The Tories are now down to just above the Member numbers for the Liberal Democrat party with their absurd and childish psychodrama which we have all been locked into. When I met senior officials and MPs in Berlin recently, they asked me one of those psychological questions: “Why are they being so childish?”. I was unable to reply so I said that I would refer the question to Ministers here and ask them. I did so, but I never got an answer from the then Lords Minister about it.

In the Financial Times on 18 July, the writer Gideon Rachman put into chilling context that when people say that the vote which occurred on 23 June must be followed they mean,

“the Leavers’ view of democracy is similar to that of a third-world dictator—‘one man, one vote, one time’”.

Thus it can never be revisited. That of course was not the case in the 1975 referendum, which was reversed by the second in 2016. There is now less than a 50/50 chance of a comprehensive agreement being reached by March 2019. My noble friend Lord Kerr wrote on 26 January this year that, “The UK might withdraw its Article 50 notice, as it legally could”. Meanwhile the rest of the EU is paying close attention to the neurotic antics here which shame the reputation of UK politics. All the 27 sovereign member states, who incidentally are proud of the links between their own national sovereignty and the collective sovereignty afforded by EU membership, see more and more people here beginning to back away from the Brexit disaster movie, filmed in black and white.

If anti-Brexit is thwarting the will of the people, by 2019 some 2 million people from the Brexit electorate will have passed away and have been replaced by a similar number of voters aged 18-plus, on top of the 1 million extra young voters in the election held in June this year. Hence we conclude that staying in the single market and the customs union is a legitimate compromise. The Opposition should repeat this all the time and I do hope that the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, and others will persuade Jeremy Corbyn to sound a little more enthusiastic about matters European, not only to please members of the Labour Party but others in this country, and indeed many trade union members who are increasingly keen on Europe.

The inexorably looming and increasingly obvious solution is to study the sage words of one of our most brilliant authors, Ian McEwan. Early in June this year he said,

“I am a denialist. Almost a year on, I am still shaking my head in disbelief. I know it’s not helpful, but I don’t accept this near mystical, emotionally charged decision”.


That view will be echoed by others as we see what happens from now on. I wait with interest to hear the response of the Minister.

Brexit: EU Institution Relocations

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as ever, the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, provides us with a sensible approach to this. Remember, he was a really great Chief Whip. I may no longer be a government Chief Whip, but you recognise a good one when you see one. The serious issue is that I call on those who use these terms to define them. I talk about a successful Brexit, and that is the one we are negotiating.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, bearing in mind that the reality for the Government is that the Brexit mandate effectively ended with the general election on 8 June and no longer exists, as well as keeping the agencies in London, would it not be a good idea to listen to the increasing advice from all sections of the population that we remain a member of the European Union?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

No, my Lords. The people decided.

Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Monday 24th April 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the principal Brexit negotiation issues following the invoking of Article 50.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Bridges of Headley) (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister’s letter to the President of the European Council comprehensively articulates this Government’s assessment of the principal negotiation issues. We are pleased that the indications are that both sides wish to approach these talks constructively and we look forward to negotiations beginning when the time comes.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Bearing in mind the importance from now on of very close relations with another leading member state—France—and the importance of trade negotiations, will the Government make an effort to have close relations with it in the context of national member states and their responses to the Brexit negotiations to make sure that, even if the Government cannot go as far as accepting the wise advice of Mr Macron when he came to London last February, they will make every effort to make sure that we have a good outcome?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I thank the noble Lord for that question. He will not expect me to comment on individual elections in other European member states, but your Lordships can rest assured that my ministerial colleagues and I are doing all we can to have relationships that are as cordial as possible and to build the atmosphere of trust that we wish to see before the negotiations begin.