Brexit: Parliamentary Approval of the Outcome of Negotiations with the European Union

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Monday 28th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, I will not necessarily follow others in their very interesting analyses of the possible vote outcomes tomorrow. For us, the humble House of Lords, there is a general feeling that the whole pattern and mixture of amendments—their flavour and content—is so complicated, even for parliamentarians, to absorb by way of accurate predictions that we have to await the outcome of those matters before drawing conclusions, which, I hope, will be positive about our position as members of the European Union. That would be a better way of doing it, rather than speculating too much—as of course parliamentarians are fully entitled to do.

I suppose that some colleagues here would generally agree with the proposition that Monday morning is always a bad time, as people have to return to work and they can be in a bad mood. Although I have never normally suffered from that ailment, which is justifiable and understandable, I certainly felt in a bad mood this morning after hearing yet another hysterical broadcast on the BBC Radio 4 “Today” programme. Nick Robinson was trying to bully a very distinguished TD in the Irish Dáil to admit that the Irish Government would then soften their stance when all they are doing is agreeing with the other member states of the European Union on the generally agreed position, on which there can be no further movement. So hysterical had he become that, by the end, he was more or less screaming at the distinguished TD, and then made it even worse by suddenly saying, “Oh, we’ve run out of time, now it’s the weather forecast, you can go”. It was such a nauseatingly offensive broadcast that I shall pen a letter to the BBC tomorrow—I have not had time to do it yet—because Nick Robinson is joining John Humphrys in being an entirely reckless broadcaster.

[Lord Hain]

I very much endorse what the noble Lord says. I find deeply worrying the reckless way in which many leading figures in public life, including in Parliament, simply attack the Irish Government, destroying what has been a carefully and patiently built relationship after a tangled history. This must stop, and it must stop now.

[Lord Dykes]

That is not the first time I have agreed with the noble Lord in his assertions, which are usually very accurate, and I do so wholeheartedly in this case. It is the weight of that very adverse, condescending history of Britain and England’s relationship with the Irish that smacks of being repeated when people behave like that nowadays. Think of what Ireland has achieved as a country and as a loyal, constructive and successful member of the European Union, not one that whinges and moans about everything, as unfortunately have far too many politicians over the years of our membership of the EU, which is still continuing, in case people have not noticed that.

The other reason for my bad mood this morning was the totally ludicrous and absurd article in the Daily Telegraph by that failed ex-Foreign Minister Boris Johnson about his advice to the Prime Minister. After all the chaos of recent weeks, his even presuming to give any advice was grotesque. However, my mood changed for the better as I came here for work—early, as usual, of course, in a virtuous sense—because of the flag-wavers outside, led by the immensely impressive but hugely modest Steve Bray and his team. They have now been there for nearly three years, day in, day out, from 10 am—not 11 am, as it was before—until 6 pm. There are even more flags, and the leave component at the end, trembling with fear, consisted of one or two flags. That sums up the reality of the public feeling about these matters. Many of those educated people who join in the flag-waving are British citizens living in EU countries, who come over whenever they can, while others have a deep knowledge of the functioning of the EU and the success of our membership of it. If only we had made more effort. So I felt better after that, but, none the less, the Brexit nightmare is getting worse.

I find it astonishing that colleagues such as the noble Lord, Lord Dobbs, are so complacent about Mrs May’s alarming and indeed atrocious behaviour—I am sorry to have to use that strong adjective—especially after the 8 June election result. For her to go through the necessary and inevitable motions to follow up on the legislative requirements after the referendum result would be one thing, but to go on after that election result as if nothing had changed was quite preposterous. The mandate had been lost, but she did not accept that. In the old days in the House of Commons, when I was an MP, there was a natural self-restraint between members of all parties, and that would have been accepted by the Prime Minister, who would have said, “I no longer have this mandate to carry on this negotiation”. Instead, however, she did a grotesque deal with the most unpopular party in the House of Commons, let alone probably in the country, apart from some people in Northern Ireland: the unsavoury DUP—Protestant extremists who resist and oppose all women’s rights in Northern Ireland, in contrast to what happens now in England, with our more modern legislation. To go on as if nothing had changed was unacceptable. This now means, as the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, wisely said, that profound changes are in danger of being made on the hoof in the Commons. That can be an unfortunate consequence of what happens if mistakes are made. The Prime Minister pretended to hold substantive talks only after her massive defeat in the Commons last time—the biggest defeat in parliamentary history.

In the UK, we have always, tragically, failed to explain the EU’s functions and its success story. The euro is a good example. It is feared here, because we were driven out of the exchange rate mechanism, but it is also regarded as a dangerous currency. In fact, the euro is the most successful currency in the world, getting closer and closer to the US dollar, and most member states are very happy with it. Some have found it harder to adjust than others, but that is natural in such a large grouping. I am glad to remind noble Lords that my own modest European Union (Information, etc.) Bill, is still awaiting a Committee of the Whole House—I believe it is number 11 on the list. If it comes through, it will provide that information that should have been available in public libraries and public buildings all over this country, explaining how the EU functions, in non-partisan terms, to give people the necessary information about it.

I come back to the present crisis, which is a grotesque nightmare for everyone, even the Brexiteers, more and more of whom are beginning to realise that this is the case. The SNP MP for Glenrothes, Peter Grant, the party’s foreign affairs and Europe spokesman, recently intervened on the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union:

“The Prime Minister has promised that her discussions with the devolved nations and the Opposition parties will be without preconditions, so clearly she will not refuse even to discuss the prospect of extending article 50, because that would be a precondition; she will not refuse even to discuss the prospect of taking no deal off the table, because that would be a precondition; and she will not refuse even to discuss the possibility of giving the people another say, because that would be a precondition. Can the Secretary of State therefore confirm on the record that all those topics will be available for discussion, in honour of the Prime Minister’s promise that there will be no preconditions?”.—[Official Report, Commons, 24/1/19; col. 318.]


The most important absence of a precondition would be to give the people the chance of another vote.

[Lord Dobbs]

Before the noble Lord sits down—I promise not to keep bobbing up and down, which would be very aggravating, but he mentioned my name—I want to apologise to him for appearing in any way complacent. I had not thought I sounded complacent. He mentioned the demonstrations outside, which he said had been going on for three years. They are very impressive, with all the flags waving. Can the noble Lord enlighten me, and perhaps the House, on who is paying for these demonstrations? The question has never really been asked, and it is about time we investigated.

[Lord Dykes]

Would it not be better for the noble Lord, Lord Dobbs, to go and ask them himself? I do not know the answer but I am told that they all do it by paying themselves for their individual efforts. That is the only answer I have ever received.

Brexit: Support for Remaining in the EU

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Wednesday 16th January 2019 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of public support for remaining in the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, in 2016, 17.4 million people voted to leave the European Union. This was the highest number of votes cast for anything in UK electoral history, and the biggest democratic mandate for a course of action ever directed at any UK Government. This Government believe it is our duty to implement this will of the electorate and deliver on the referendum result.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, the largest ever opinion poll—25,000 people participated over the holiday period—showed a remain lead range of between 16% and 26%, including former leave voters as well. The game is up. Surely Parliament must now move to save the people from the Government’s continuing folly.

[Lord Callanan]

I am sorry to disagree with the noble Lord. There have been a lot of opinion polls since the referendum result, so while researching this topic this morning, I looked to see whether any analysis of these has been done. Indeed, there has. Let me read what Professor John Curtice, who I think we would all agree is a respected polling analyst, said after analysing all the polls:

“In short, neither side in the Brexit debate has secured any ‘momentum’ so far as the balance of public opinion is concerned—and any claims to the contrary made by protagonists on either side of the debate should be regarded with considerable scepticism”.

Brexit: People’s Vote

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Wednesday 12th December 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have received on a People’s Vote on Brexit.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have been clear that we will not hold a second referendum. A clear majority of the electorate voted to leave the European Union in the people’s vote held in 2016. We must respect both the will of the British people and the democratic process which delivered that result.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, a people’s vote would have no direct connection to the previous referendum—it is a separate matter entirely. Will the Minister undertake to make sure that the Government, led by either the present incumbent or whoever succeeds her over the next short period, concentrate on examining the incredible number of messages that are coming in to all government departments, including the Minister’s, from people who were leave voters saying that they are now minded to consider changing their minds, bearing in mind the changed circumstances?

[Lord Callanan]

The short answer to the noble Lord’s question is no. I do not know where he gets his figures from about the incredible number of messages, because I certainly have not seen any.

Brexit: Proposed Agreement

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Wednesday 14th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The people who have a say are those who vote in the referendum or election that you have at the time. You cannot go back to elections and say, “What would the result have been if different numbers of people had taken part?” I reiterate the point my noble friend Lord Bates made: we have already had a people’s vote and people voted to leave. In my view, that is the settled will of the country, and we are implementing that outcome.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, despite the rumours, the Minister is a fair-minded man. Would he not therefore agree, in answer to the Question from the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, that, bearing in mind that the Government psychologically lost the mandate to pursue the Brexit negotiations anyway in the 8 June 2017 election, now is the time to reflect the changes in public opinion and the younger voters coming on to the roll, and for the Government to allow Parliament to make that decision about a people’s vote?

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Lord for his compliment but no, I do not agree with him. At the general election, both we and the Labour Party stood on manifestos saying that the result of the referendum should be respected. Indeed, the leader of the Opposition confirmed that last week. Over 80% of votes were cast in that general election for parties that said that they would respect the outcome of the referendum.

Brexit: People’s Vote

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Thursday 25th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

I thank the Liberal Democrat group for being unequivocally in favour of our continuing membership of the EU. As the first referendum two years ago was an advisory and quite legitimate giving of an opinion, does the noble Lord agree that it is important that the people should be entitled to a second consideration of this important matter now, after the incredibly bewildering and complex negotiations?

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem]

I am glad that I have so quickly persuaded the noble Lord.

The second matter that I wish to draw to the House’s attention is the unremitting and, it must be admitted, highly successful campaign against the Liberal Democrats conducted by the Conservatives in the 2015 general election. However, the consequence of that was to remove the need for a further coalition, which could have been David Cameron’s defence—as it was between 2010 and 2015—against Conservative MPs hell-bent on withdrawal. The consequence of that is that the credibility of the Government’s position has been substantially undermined, as indeed it was by the assumption on the part of Mrs May that a general election would produce an increased government majority and strengthen her hand. All those weaken the negotiating strength of the Government, which has been further undermined by the civil war in the Conservative Party, where there is still open and reckless ambition and unrepentant revolt—notwithstanding what may be thought to be the temporary ceasefire of last night.

The Prime Minister—who would have believed it?—has found it embarrassingly necessary to use a threat to the European Union that if she were to be replaced because of a failure to reach an accommodation with the 27 leaders, then negotiations with a successor would be even more difficult. Baroness Thatcher would not have approved.

We do not know what the final package put before Parliament will be, but the chances of it being approved by the Commons melt by the hour, as bitterness and abuse replace loyalty and respect. Who will bet the farm that the Government will get any proposal brought back by the Prime Minister through the House of Commons?

What are those who oppose a second vote afraid of? If they are as confident as some of those quotations have suggested, what is there to be lost, so far as they are concerned? I understand those who take the view that in a parliamentary democracy we should not rely on a referendum, but that door was opened when the decision was taken to hold a referendum as to whether we should stay or leave. Some claim that it would be undemocratic to allow such a vote—that it is a novel and dangerous principle to give the people of the United Kingdom the chance to pass judgment on proposals which are a world away from what they were promised, and which will have an impact for decades to come.

Parliament, on the other hand, is sovereign; it can change its mind, and it frequently does. Sometimes we repeal legislation which has been passed earlier in the same Session. It is argued that the people of the United Kingdom cannot be given the same opportunity: that, once cast, the vote to leave must be implemented, whatever the political, economic or social consequences; that the resulting, inevitable uncertainties must be accepted, whatever the financial cost; and perhaps—I speak as someone who comes from north of the border—that the risk of the break-up of the United Kingdom must be accepted, along with the risk of the destabilisation of the island of Ireland.

In the course of the referendum campaign, no one told the country that a decision to leave would result in the depreciation of the pound, an increase in inflation and a rise in the cost of living. No one told the country that we might have to stockpile medicine and food. No one told the country that the car industry would be beset by uncertainty. Where now is the letter of comfort given to Nissan, to which such great importance was attached? It has since been regarded as insufficient, so far as Nissan is concerned.

The people were assured that the vote to leave would be followed by a trouble-free and successful exit, and that the economy would prosper. What else was meant by the three unwise men to whom I have already referred? More than that, the people were given to believe that their Government would conduct the necessary negotiations in an effective and unified way. In all of these expectations, they have been failed. They have been failed by incoherence and incompetence. The people of Britain have a right to be allowed to pass judgment on any deal forged in such circumstances. They should be given that opportunity. I beg to move.

Brexit: EU Commission

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Wednesday 10th October 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the outcome of their last meeting with the European Union Commission to discuss Brexit.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

Following extensive negotiations, the UK and the EU are close to concluding a withdrawal agreement, which sets out the terms of the UK’s orderly exit from the European Union. Negotiations are progressing and we remain confident of a deal this autumn.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

I thank the Minister for that optimistic Answer, but as these ghastly negotiations proceed it is highly likely that the EU will ask the Government to remain in both the customs union and the single market. Are the Government aware of this and preparing the ground for this event?

[Lord Callanan]

I am not sure whether I would describe the negotiations as ghastly. We think that they are constructive and we are looking to get a deal, but we have made it clear that we will not be remaining in the single market or the customs union.

Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Thursday 6th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The former Chancellor speaks with great authority because of the excellent job he did in managing the country’s economy. We take his—and all—contributions extremely seriously.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister not realise at long last that all the 27 member states think the Government are bonkers?

[Lord Callanan]

No, they do not.

Brexit: Parliamentary Processes

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Tuesday 24th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We are hoping that the framework that we agree will be a detailed exposition, and the noble Lord will be able to scrutinise it alongside the withdrawal agreement.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, following the question from the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, does the Minister not realise that, if there is no option in a parliamentary vote and a vote of the people to remain in the European Union after all that has happened and all the Government’s mistakes, there will be total uproar in this country?

[Lord Callanan]

I think there would be total uproar in this country if we did not implement the referendum vote. I am slightly confused about why this call for a second referendum is now being labelled a people’s vote, as if somehow the people did not get to vote in the first referendum.

Brexit: European Commission Discussions

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they expect the current discussions with the European Commission to include (1) a solution for trade across the Irish border; and (2) a commitment to the United Kingdom’s membership of the Single Market and Customs Union.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have been clear that in leaving the EU we will also be leaving both the single market and the customs union. The proposal that we laid out on Friday will create a UK-EU free trade area, thereby avoiding friction in terms of trade, protecting jobs and livelihoods and meeting our commitments in Northern Ireland through the overall future relationship between the UK and EU.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

Thanks for the non-Answer, but I am sure that the Minister is relieved not to be at the meeting in Room 10 at this very moment. As the total Tory pantomime has now become just too complicated, why not consider the other option of simply staying in the most effective and impressive international club of sovereign member states working together for peace and prosperity in Europe?

[Lord Callanan]

Of course, I am delighted to be here with your Lordships instead of in Room 10, but the noble Lord obviously forgot that we had a referendum on the subject and the people have voted to leave.

Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Dykes Excerpts

Wednesday 6th June 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they expect to reach a full agreement with European Union negotiators on the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union before the European Council meeting in October.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, we have made significant progress on a withdrawal agreement, reaching agreement on more than three-quarters of the legal text and locking down the full chapters on citizens’ rights, the implementation period and the financial settlement. We are continuing to work hard and at pace to reach a final agreement by October.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

I think the whole House appreciates that the Minister has been working hard to reassure Members of this House about these complicated matters. However, are the Government aware of the looming catastrophe they face, not least because the end-June meeting of the European Council is most unlikely to bail them out of their own mistakes? Is not, therefore, the moment of truth approaching—when the single market and the customs union will be the only practical options?

[Lord Callanan]

No, we have been very clear that we are leaving the single market and the customs union, and we remain optimistic, like the EU, that we should be able to reach an agreement by October.