Legal Services Act 2007 (Appeals from Licensing Authority Decisions) (No. 2) Order 2011

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

My Lords, I would like to speak on the first of the two orders. I no longer have formally to declare an interest as I no longer chair the Legal Services Consumer Panel, but it was in that guise that I had such an interest in the implementation of this part of the Legal Services Act and the availability of the alternative business structure—a sort of one-stop-shop—which has been very strongly supported by consumers of legal services.

As the Minister said, this order is part of the architecture for setting up the alternative business structure licensing system, and it will allow the SRA to become a licensing authority by the end of this year—sadly, not by 6 October as was originally hoped, but nevertheless within 2011.

As has been outlined, the order deals with appeals by applicants who want to be an ABS against the granting of a licence, which is effectively the permit to act as a recognised ABS, by the SRA’s licensing arm. Similar appeals about, for example, whether an individual is fit and proper to own an ABS, or to be the head of legal practice or a head of finance administration, and decisions to impose licensing conditions or the imposition of a financial penalty would also be heard. Under the system being put into place by this order, as the noble Lord, Lord McNally, has said, the existing SDT, although slightly adapted, will hear such cases rather than the First-tier Tribunal, which will be used by the other licensing authority, the Council of Licensed Conveyancers. As has been mentioned at an earlier stage, we regret perhaps that there is not a single body dealing with all such appeals in order that a real body of expertise and precedent can be built up, which would give certainty and consistency to this aspect of the new delivery service.

As regards the new service, I know that we do not often congratulate civil servants but the MoJ and the Legal Services Board have worked immensely hard to get all this quite complicated machinery into place. They should be congratulated. As part of that, it is disappointing that the only reason—I know that the Minister gave two—that the Law Society via its SRA arm has insisted on a separate route rather than the First-tier Tribunal is because of the tribunal’s own rules about awarding costs. At the moment the SDT, when considering solicitor conduct cases, has the power to award costs to be paid by the losing to the winning side. Therefore, the SRA’s costs are always met. Under the new process, having gone to the tribunal, the tribunal would hear not the case brought by the SRA but an appeal against the SRA decision. Thus, as the tribunals do not generally have the power to award costs unless it is a case with absolutely no merit, the SRA would have to meet its own costs. I fear that not using the First-tier Tribunal is the reason for this separate order today.

I think that it is in the interests of business or consumers to understand the rules as they develop. It is also probably not in the interests of the Government or the LSB, which needs to watch carefully over this new system. It is quite a risk to set up something like alternative business structures. The MoJ and the LSB will need to look over the new system of legal service provision and how it is bedding down. It would have helped to have a single appeals body regardless of which front-line regulator was handling the case.

However, the rules that the SDT will apply are to be welcomed. They are virtually the same as those in place for the First-tier Tribunal, which will help with consistency in the short term and perhaps allow for adjudications to be combined at a later date. With those comments, I certainly support the order.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, I welcome both orders. The Minister will recollect that when the matter was first discussed here, we raised our concern and he was good enough to say that he would take the matter back, examine it and see what appropriate action was necessary. I endorse what the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, has said. The Minister and his staff have worked very hard to effect those changes, which are certainly welcome.

The order sets out an independent appeal mechanism against a range of ABS decisions, which is right; for example, refusing an application for a licence, imposing a conditional licence, disqualifying a person from working in the ABS or imposing a financial penalty. The most interesting part is that appeals on these matters are to go to the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. I am told that this helps the SRA to license alternative business structures from the new year onwards. I am also told that the SRA has found significant interest from organisations seeking to become ABSs. It has received over 500 inquiries. Examples of such organisations include private equity investors, claims management companies, the expansion of in-house legal departments, major retailers, accountancy firms and partnerships between non-lawyers and insurers.

I particularly welcome the second order as I am involved in promoting a Private Member’s Bill on the rehabilitation of offenders. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, hit the nail on the head in regard to this. In the end this is about consumer protection and looking at what information is available. I am delighted to support the measure because it sets out an interesting aspect in simple terms. This is a significant step in that not only will the SRA be able to issue licences, but also the Government have agreed to include non-lawyer owners and, in certain circumstances, the managers of ABSs in the exclusions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. That is right, and we very much appreciate the Minister’s support. Over a period of time this will ensure that all owners of ABSs will have to disclose all their previous convictions and cautions, which ultimately helps the consumer to understand what happens in this legal process.

Again, I thank the Minister for the action that he and his staff have taken on this, and we certainly support the orders.

[Lord Bach]

My Lords, I start by thanking the Minister very warmly for his clear and thorough opening remarks and description of these orders. I have little to say about them except to express the support of the Opposition for them both. There is no doubt that the Legal Services Act 2007 will have a major, if not profound, influence in the years to come on how legal services are delivered in this country. That was clear when the draft Bill was debated and discussed by a Joint Committee of both Houses under the chairmanship of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, and when the Bill went through your Lordships’ House some time afterwards. I think we can see the importance of that Act in the orders before us. Alongside it there are many sensitivities that surround the bringing into force of various parts of this Act, whether large or small. I hope—indeed I am sure—that the Government and the ministry are aware of and alive to those sensitivities in deciding which way to go.

I shall say a word about the first order, which deals particularly with appeals bodies. On the face of it, it is a shame that there is not to be a single appeals body—I agree with my noble friend Lady Hayter on that—but I suppose that this is one of the sensitivities that I am talking about. It is interesting to see in the Explanatory Memorandum the consultation outcome in relation to this order. For a consultation outcome, this has a dramatic and rather more exciting history than is normally the case in such consultations and it is quite clear that there has been toing and froing before the Government came forward with this order allowing the Law Society its way in this instance. I do not for a moment suggest that that was the wrong decision. However, a single appeals body is an attractive proposition, and I wonder whether over a period of time events might lead to it.

As for the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, I start by wishing the Private Member’s Bill under the charge of the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, well. It is relevant because, with a senior government Minister present, maybe the Government themselves will have to play a role at some stage in making sure that his Bill, which is much delayed—this came up under the Government I was proud to serve in—gets on to the statute book in one way or another. It may be in the form of a Private Member’s Bill with all the difficulties that that involves both in this House and in another place, or with a little help from Her Majesty’s Government. Certainly, if the Government were to put their weight behind the Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, we would support it too.

However, as far as this order is concerned I am most grateful—particularly to the Minister—for describing in detail why the universal opinion of the various groups that were consulted about this was not met in terms of a slightly wider group being subject to the exemption to the existing Act. He described it very adequately. Is there any concern that by leaving out that group of people there will be some difficulties down the road? It would be unfortunate if people who should be exempted from this Act were not exempted at this stage, and if the Government had to do it on a “first today and then tomorrow” basis.

These are important issues even though they are in orders that are going through this Committee pretty quickly. I have no doubt there will be others that involve the ABS and the other important results of the Legal Services Act 2007. Bearing in mind that the Act was passed under a different Government, we will do all we can to ensure that Act comes into fruition successfully.

Prisons: HMP Wandsworth

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Wednesday 9th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

We will return to the rehabilitation revolution on 21 November when we discuss the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill. I hope that the noble Lord will help me then with the fact that the Ministry of Justice, as part of our deficit reduction programme, has to find £2 billion in cuts. In a department that spends money only on prisons, probation, court services and legal aid, tough decisions have been made. Today it is prison spending cuts that the noble Lord does not like; I suspect that, the next time he gets up, it will be legal aid cuts that he does not like. To govern is to choose, and we have had to make some very tough decisions.

On the question of doubling up, again one of the problems for Wandsworth is that a prison built for just over 1,000 people has 1,600 prisoners. You can work out the number that are doubled up in cells. About the only good thing that I can think of in that circumstance is that they all have in-cell toilet facilities, but even that makes you squirm with horror when you think about sharing a cell containing those facilities.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, does the Minister share my concern that the policies on diversity and race relations identified in the report have not been adequately addressed? Would he have a word with Her Majesty’s Inspector of Prisons to ensure that there will be an automatic review of this issue, not only in Wandsworth but in other prisons as well? At the end of the day, is it not right that all inmates should be treated fairly?

[Lord McNally]

Absolutely, my Lords. One of the reasonable things that came from this report and the prison visitors’ report is that there was no identifiable race problem in the treatment of prisoners. Indeed, 29 per cent of prison officers and staff at Wandsworth are from black and ethnic communities, a figure that I found reassuring, but it is also true that the report said that because of general failures across the board, black and ethnic minority prisoners suffered from those common problems.

On the question of dealing with race relations, I understand that all prisons now have an adviser on such matters, but I will also ensure that my noble friend’s suggestions are drawn to the attention of Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector.

Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) (Amendment) (England and Wales) Order 2011

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Hunt of Wirral]

My Lords, I declare an interest in the global firm of solicitors, Beachcroft LLP, where I have been a partner since 1969, and as vice-chairman of Justice. I say that with trepidation in the presence of the emeritus chairman of Justice—my noble friend Lord Goodhart—because Justice must deserve a great deal of credit for the original rehabilitation of offenders legislation.

However, I need help from my noble friend the Minister on giving a commitment—a commitment that was given by the party opposite when it had responsibility. I also gave personal commitments when I was leading for the Opposition from the Front Bench and made it clear, right at the outset, that a single set of regulatory standards would be required for alternative business structures.

The Minister has received a fascinating brief from his officials to explain the mistake in singling out “head of legal practice” or “head of finance and administration”. I warmly commend the officials for having thought up this reason, but it was two years ago that we made it clear that it is the owners and managers of the alternative business structures who must be the people in the spotlight. It may well be that they will need under them a head of legal practice or finance and administration, but at the end of the day the key role played by the owner/investor/manager of the alternative business structures must mean that they should be subject to the same authorisation rules as solicitors in regard to disclosing criminal offences. Why? Because we must ensure, as both Front Benches agreed we had to, that convicted criminals are not able to become owners and managers of legal practices.

It is not just that a request has only just been received from the Legal Services Board, because it was in June 2009 that the Solicitors Regulation Authority made it clear that a single set of regulatory standards would be required. Why on earth this is not included now I just do not know, because what it means is that someone who has served a sentence for a serious crime such as money laundering does not have to disclose this when applying to be an owner or investor in an alternative business structure firm.

I suppose that my noble friend can immediately move to give me assistance by promising that there will be a further order to rectify this omission, which will then make it clear that the exemption of course also applies to owners and managers of ABS firms, as well as to the heads of legal practice and finance and administration within those firms.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for the explanation that he offered on the order. My noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford has commented on some aspects of the order, particularly in relation to the Legal Services Act 2007 (Appeals from Licensing Authority Decisions) Order 2011. I intend to build on that. However, let me make a confession first. My noble friend Lord Hunt just wanted a minute from me, but in that minute he has stolen half my thunder. But I can build on what he said—and certainly the Minister might look sympathetically at why we are making this request.

As one who is promoting the Rehabilitation of Offenders (Amendment) Bill, I am aware that this order is adding additional exceptions to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, which does not include external owners. The matter was brought to the attention of the Ministry of Justice by the Solicitors Regulation Authority, which said that a single set of regulatory standards will be required, based on the existing ones for solicitors and traditional law firms and on the assumption that all potential owners of alternative business structures will have to disclose all previous criminal convictions. It would be very helpful to know from my noble friend the Minister why the Government have not included external owners in the list of exceptions. The Solicitors Regulation Authority is clear that it will not be able to subject external owners and managers to the same standard of fitness and propriety checks as apply to solicitors. I am told that the SRA conducted a public consultation and no objections were raised about alternative business structure owners and managers.

Will the Minister now intervene to ensure that the liberalisation of the market can occur with appropriate public protection? My Private Member’s Bill includes exceptions in serious cases, and that is right; it is how it should be, if we are to build the confidence of the public in the structures that we promote. The crux of the matter is to establish a strict regulatory regime so that serious criminals cannot take control of legal practices. This is where changes are necessary.

There is a clear divide between what the Ministry of Justice is proposing and what is required by the SRA of the Law Society. It would be helpful to have the Minister’s reasons for this order. It poses difficulties for the SRA, whose task it is to establish standards, and it is the SRA’s view that it cannot license ABS until these exceptions are in place.

Social Mobility Strategy

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Tuesday 5th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

That is certainly the Government’s intention. The initiative on Sure Start is still at local authority level but the intention is that it should remain a targeted benefit for those in greatest need, as the noble Lord said.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating this important Statement in your Lordships’ House and I ask him to congratulate the Deputy Prime Minister on it. The area of internships has rightly been identified. Does my noble friend accept that in some parts of the country, particularly in the poorest areas, disadvantage and discrimination are an everyday reality in the lives of many people? In many cases, people are still disadvantaged by being in the same place as the one allocated to them when they first moved to this country. What sort of monitoring mechanism will be put in place to ensure that no one suffers discrimination or disadvantage on the basis of their background?

[Lord McNally]

I am hopeful that this will be one of the jobs of the new body that Alan Milburn is setting up. I agree with my noble friend that, of the many problems that we have to tackle, one of the most intractable is social mobility among those from ethnic backgrounds, who often find themselves trapped not only by poverty but by other forms of discrimination.

Youth Crime and Anti-social Behaviour

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Wednesday 30th March 2011 Grand Committee

Asked By

[Lord Dholakia]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the report of the Independent Commission on Youth Crime and Antisocial Behaviour.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to initiate this debate. The report, Time for a fresh start, was produced by the Independent Commission on Youth Crime and Antisocial Behaviour, which was set up by the Police Foundation in 2008 with funding from the Nuffield Foundation. This was supplemented with additional funding from the Paul Hamlyn Foundation for a youth engagement exercise which ensured that the commission received valuable direct input from young people.

I declare non-financial interests: I am a trustee of the Police Foundation; president of the National Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders; and I have recently joined the steering group of the Young Offenders Academy project.

Over the years there has been much debate about the underlying cause of crime and a good deal of research into the type of interventions that are necessary. However, it is not universally recognised that most research tended to refute rather than confirm the hypothesis about the causes of crime and the effectiveness of punishments and treatments. One thing on which we are all clear is that the public and political mood continues to be conditioned more by hunch and gut reaction than by informed reports and research. We have seen in the past that the ability of the criminal justice system to influence crime is overstated.

I thank the Minister and I welcome the Government’s consultation paper, Breaking the Cycle, and particularly the emphasis placed on the rehabilitation process. Real progress may be achieved only as more far-reaching changes take place in society, whether of an economic and social nature or at the level of our moral values and motivations. In essence, priority must be given to crime prevention in its broadest sense and schemes for diverting as many young offenders as possible from the criminal justice system. History has proved that this is an entirely realistic appraisal of the strictly limited contribution that the courts and penal institutions can make to reduce crime.

We always underestimate that people have the capacity to change: no one is born a criminal. We cannot solve the problems of crime and reoffending by simply isolating individuals from wider society. There are clear benefits in early intervention with families caught up in the cycle of deprivation and disadvantage. The key factors that effect help are providing positive role models, developing positive relationships and getting young people back into education.

A civilised society should not tolerate anti-social behaviour, personal victimisation and alcohol and drug abuse. The Young Offenders Academy project—I am glad that the Minister has agreed to meet its representatives—is not expecting to break the embargo on capital investment. I am sure that the Minister will acknowledge that the academy proposals are generally welcome so that the momentum is maintained and the project can engage with new funders and potential partners.

The Time for a fresh start report makes a positive response to the academy in its executive summary and its action on integration. The result is a cogent and detailed analysis of the causes of youth crime, our current responses to it and proposals to improve the way in which we deal with offending young people. The independent commission estimates that the country currently spends over £4 billion every year in dealing with youth crime and anti-social behaviour and that much of this money is wasted. Young offenders are often treated in ways that have little to do with preventing offending. For example, the annual cost of custody for young people ranges from £69,000 in young offender institutions to £193,000 in secure children’s homes, yet 75 per cent of those serving custodial sentences are reconvicted. At the same time, there is little investment in preventive measures and constructive community-based penalties. The commission’s proposals are based around three key principles: restoration, prevention and integration. My colleagues from this side of the Committee may speak further on these three aspects of the strategy.

On restoration, the report proposes that restorative justice becomes the standard means of resolving all but the most serious cases of youth offending, either pre-trial or as an alternative to prosecution or after conviction by a court. It proposes that restorative conferences should lead to action which includes some combination of an apology, financial reparation to victims, unpaid community work, supervision by youth offending teams, treatment for mental illness and all substance abuse, parenting support and help from children’s services. In Northern Ireland, where a system of restorative youth conferencing was introduced five years ago, this approach has led to a reduced use of custody for young people. A similar approach in this country could do a great deal to reduce the human cost of youth crime.

On prevention, the commission is keen to see the savings derived from the reduced use of courts and custody being reinvested in preventive intervention at an early stage in the lives of children with behavioural problems. Investment at this stage will be repaid many times over. By the time a child with a conduct disorder reaches the age of 27, it is estimated that the cost to public services is more than £85,000 if the disorder is not treated. The commission proposes a structured programme of investment in the most promising preventive approach.

On integration, the commission wants to see a focus on keeping young offenders in mainstream society through intervention and sanctions in the community that can help steer them away from criminal behaviour. The report accepts that some young people who are violent have to be placed in secure settings because they are a risk to other people or themselves. However, it argues, as I have frequently done in this House, that we currently overuse custody and that it should be used only as a last resort.

The commission welcomes the recent reduction in the number of children in custody and recommends that a target be set for at least halving that number. It proposes the introduction of a tighter statutory threshold for the use of custody and the abolition of short custodial sentences for young people. The reduced number of young people who would then be held in custody should be placed in small, purpose-designed units with regimes modelled on best practice in staff training and an understanding of child development.

I hope that the Government, who have so far shown themselves to be refreshingly open to constructive thinking on criminal justice, will feel able to adopt the approach proposed by this stimulating report. In his introduction to Time for a fresh start, the chair of the commission, Anthony Salz, writes:

“We need to respond effectively to the real difficulties faced by a significant number of our children today, especially those from deprived and chaotic backgrounds. We also need communities to come together with a shared commitment to understanding the needs of troubled young people and how their self-belief, skills and achievement can be encouraged to give them better chances in life. By doing that we can set about the task of creating a response to youth crime and antisocial behaviour that is intelligent, humane, flexible and, above all, optimistic”.

I echo those words and commend this incisive and constructive report to the Committee.

Prisons: OPCAT

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Monday 28th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, there is concern, and the UK Border Agency regularly reviews all cases where people are detained under immigration powers. It will consider for release all those who have been assessed as presenting a low risk of harm to the public and/or who are unlikely to abscond. However, there will always be some detainees who need to be detained.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, one area of concern is the fate of deportees when they are returned to their homeland. How often are the in-country reports updated to ensure that the political situation is taken into account? Secondly, what mechanism exists to ensure that they suffer no harm when they are returned?

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, that goes slightly wider than this Question. Rather than trying to busk it, I will make sure that I get the correct information and write to my colleague.

Public Bodies Bill [HL]

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss]

I support many of the coalition Government’s initiatives on criminal justice, which makes it absolutely surprising to me that, among all the good initiatives, they should go in for the idea of abolishing the Youth Justice Board. I strongly support the noble Lords who have spoken to the amendment.

It seems extraordinary to me that a government department, the Ministry of Justice, which has a huge remit and numerous issues that it needs to resolve, would want to take in-house dealing with youth justice. If it chooses to do that, there will be an inevitable loss of expertise and specialisation in relation to child and youth offenders, who are, as the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, said, wholly different from adults and need to be looked after separately.

There is a huge importance in continuing the good work of reducing reoffending—and there has been a substantial reduction in reoffending—but it needs to go much further. To achieve this, we need a separate body from government to monitor and support that important initiative of reducing reoffending. Could the Government think again and consider that if it works, why break it?

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, I am delighted to speak to this amendment in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Warner and Lord Ramsbotham. During my time on the Front Bench for the Liberal Democrats, I have been a firm advocate of the work of the Youth Justice Board. Even now, I continue to be so, despite the fact that it may affect my promotional prospects in the coalition Government. I would go even further. Despite my criticism of the plethora of criminal justice legislation in the life of the previous Government, I have held out YJB as a success. Credit must be given to the noble Lord, Lord Warner, followed by Professor Rod Morgan and now Frances Done. Each of these individuals, as chair of the Youth Justice Board, has provided sound leadership and positive outcomes. Their contribution to the work of the YJB should be recognised and applauded.

My interest has not been limited to the YJB; in fact, the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, will recollect that he advocated a debate on a women’s justice board, and I was delighted to support him in that initiative. It is hardly appropriate for me to opt out of my support for the Youth Justice Board.

I am delighted that my noble friend Lord McNally has written to noble Lords in advance of this debate. I thank him for that, as it helps to clarify the Government’s stance on this matter. I commend my noble friend for maintaining a dedicated focus on the needs of children and young people—precisely the objective of the Youth Justice Board. I am delighted that he intends to retain the youth offending teams which deliver youth justice on the ground—precisely the objective of the Youth Justice Board—and that those are not going to be abolished. Again, that is very much a sound judgment.

I am also assured that the department does not intend to dilute in any way the commissioning of a secure estate that is driven by the needs of young people and that the YJB’s oversight and commissioning role will be preserved. As the noble and learned Baroness has just mentioned, the question therefore arises: why mend the system if it is not broken? Would it not be better to retain the YJB and to amend those aspects of its role that the coalition Government want to change, in line with their commitment to localism?

The YJB has a positive story to tell. It has diverted young people from the criminal justice process, which is remarkable when we think that 74 to 75 per cent of young people offend within two years of leaving a penal institution in this country. It has also helped to reduce the reoffending rate, the effect of which can be seen in the reduced numbers in our penal institutions. I suspect that its success depends, to a great extent, on the fact that it is an arm’s-length body. That factor may be compromised if the main functions are to be delivered within the Ministry of Justice policy group.

I suggest to my noble friend the Minister that the best way to proceed is perhaps to allow the YJB to continue its present functions but at the same time to introduce pilot schemes in some areas, to see which of the two systems is better able to meet the needs of young offenders. Perhaps my noble friend could look at this suggestion and come back on Report so that we can be satisfied on the most appropriate way to tackle this problem. It is right that we devise a system that is effective. Public confidence will be shaped by the quality of the service that we provide rather than by looking at a simple argument of reducing the resources.

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, I support the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Warner, and supported by my noble friend Lord Ramsbotham. It troubles me that something that has proved to be so valuable is being done away with. Look at the numbers of young people under 18 held in custody at any one time, which have reduced significantly. Whereas in December 2000 there were 2,704 young people in custody, in December 2010 there were 1,918. The bulk of the reduction in the numbers of young people in custody has taken place over the past two years; at their peak, custody numbers were as high as 3,200. There has been a significant reduction in the numbers of young people in custody while the Youth Justice Board has been at work, saving the taxpayer the huge sums of money needed to keep those young people there.

I am grateful to the Government for the briefings that they have allowed us to have on this area. I am deeply grateful for the commitment that the Government have shown to vulnerable young people, starting with the work done by the right honourable Iain Duncan Smith. I also admire very much the work of Tim Loughton MP in his area as Minister for Children, so I am puzzled by this proposal. As vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary group for children and young people in care and leaving care, I am well aware that 50 per cent of the girls and 25 per cent of the boys and young men in custody have come out of the care system. Very many of those young people have come from deeply damaging backgrounds. They are often troubled and need a system that is child-centred and attends to their needs. It is still far from that, but there has been much good progress.

On Friday, I visited Wetherby young offender institution, particularly to see its Keppel unit, which caters for the neediest young people in YOIs. Most children in the criminal justice system are kept in young offender institutions. What I saw there was that being recruited to work with these young people were officers who particularly wanted to work with children. Generally, officers come from the adult system to work with young people in custody, so they have no particular interest when they get trained up to do this work—they have no vocation to work with children—yet they work with these children, who are often deeply vulnerable, in the secure estate.

What I found at the Keppel unit particularly was a positive ratio of young people to prison officers. Within the system, there is always supposed to be a designated personal officer for the young people. The idea behind that is that many of these young people have never experienced what it is to have a relationship with an interested elder man. Many of them have not had fathers or any stable familial experience. It is tremendously important to them and to their rehabilitation that they have something of that kind. Unusually at the Keppel unit, the ratio with prison officers is something in the region of 2:10, so each young man has a personal officer and two support officers. Sitting down with them and speaking to them, I heard—and this has not been my experience of other young offender institutions—of the very positive experience that they had with their prison officers.

Another issue that comes up again and again when visiting these secure units is the cliff-edge that young people experience when they leave the secure estate. No matter what good work takes place while they are in custody, they move out into the community, they are lost, they do not get the support that they need to get back into education and they do not get the right accommodation. This has been vigorously addressed by the Youth Justice Board. Frances Done, its chair, has been building consortia of local authorities. That has brought chief executives and chairs of local authorities into the secure estate and highlighted to them their responsibility to look after these children once they leave. I pay tribute to the work of my noble friend Lord Ramsbotham in ensuring that local authorities recognise their responsibilities, particularly to looked-after young people. He referred to the Munby judgment in this area.

The Youth Justice Board has also overseen the introduction of advocacy services for young people in the secure estate. This has been a very positive step forward. Advocates can go and speak to young people about their needs—for instance, when they move on from the secure estate—and be their voice to ensure that those needs are addressed. Unfortunately, the contract for this expires in, I think, 2013, so without the Youth Justice Board one has to be concerned that there will not be advocates in future. I would appreciate an assurance from the Minister that consideration will be given to looking at the rules in this area so that we can perhaps enshrine advocacy as a right for children in the youth justice system. Many of these children will see their parents very seldom, if they even have parents to visit them, so they need someone to look after their interests.

I am troubled by this proposal from the Government. I am grateful for the care that the ministerial team is taking to reassure us that careful consideration is being given, but I hope that more can be done by the Government to meet the concerns of my noble friend and all the noble Lords who have spoken in this debate.

Prisons and Young Offender Institutions: Education and Training

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Monday 28th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness. Often our media like to leap on an initiative and present it in a way that, as she says, suggests it is soft on prison. The whole rehabilitation strategy tries to break into the ludicrous situation of people going through the prison system and reoffending shortly after being released. If we can find ways of engaging them in cultural interests by providing education, we will save public money and avoid further crime. That is plain common sense.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, education and training has a direct impact on the rehabilitation of offenders, so will my noble friend ensure that this part of his department’s budget is ring-fenced? Will he also look at the possibility that, any time non-custodial sentencing options are considered, training will form an essential part of that programme?

[Lord McNally]

I am reluctant, particularly with a Treasury Minister at my shoulder, to make commitments on ring-fencing of any budget, but the kind of campaign that my noble friend has led and with which he has been associated on the rehabilitation of offenders is very much in our minds. There is illiteracy, innumeracy and a lack of various other aspects of education and training among prisoners, so it is a no-brainer to see that if we can break into that we can also break into the circle of crime.

Rehabilitation of Offenders (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Friday 21st January 2011 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Lord Dholakia]

That the Bill be read a second time.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, this Private Member’s Bill is designed to reform the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. The Act provides that, after a specified rehabilitation period, ex-offenders do not have to declare spent convictions when they are applying for jobs, except in sensitive areas of work, such as criminal justice agencies, financial institutions and work with young people or vulnerable adults. Since it was enacted in 1974, the Act has helped many ex-offenders to leave the past behind. However, there is now growing acceptance that the Act is in need of reform. The Government’s stance on reform is very much appreciated. The Green Paper Breaking the Cycle, which was published in December, says in paragraph 114:

“The Act is often criticised as being inconsistent with contemporary sentencing practice, with the result that it can fail in its aim to help reformed offenders resettle into society. The reasons cited are that the rehabilitation periods are too long and do not reflect the point at which reoffending tails off following a conviction; the threshold at which a sentence never becomes spent (30 months) is too low given that sentencing lengths are much longer today; and the Exceptions Order exempts an ever growing number of occupations from the Act”.

The rehabilitation periods laid down in the Act are lengthy and many genuinely reformed ex-offenders can never benefit from it. For example, if an offender is fined, the offence becomes spent five years after the date of sentencing. If an offender is given a three-month prison sentence, the offence takes seven years to become spent. If he or she gets a nine-month sentence, the offence does not become spent until 10 years later. Sentences of more than two and a half years never become spent.

These provisions are notably less generous than the rules that apply in other European countries, which typically apply rehabilitation periods to sentences that are longer than two and a half years. Those rehabilitation periods are much shorter—often half the length of ours or, in some cases, even less. Since the Act was implemented, sentence lengths have significantly increased. What is the reality today? Many offenders who would have received sentences of two and a half years or less back in 1974 today receive sentences of between three and four years. This means that many offenders who would previously have been helped by the Act now find that their offences will never become spent in their lifetime.

In 2001 the then Home Secretary, Jack Straw, set up a review group to examine whether, three decades after the Act’s implementation, there was a case for reform. The review group was chaired by a senior Home Office official and included representatives of the police, the probation service, the legal profession, the judiciary, employers, voluntary agencies, victim representative organisations and ex-offenders. In 2002, the review group published its conclusions in the report Breaking the Circle.

Following a consultation period, the then Government published their own conclusions in April 2003. The Government accepted a modified version of the review group’s proposals, under which the current rehabilitation periods would be replaced by new buffer periods, which would begin after the sentence, including any post-release supervision, was completed. The buffer periods would be four years for custodial sentences of four years or more; two years for custodial sentences of less than four years; and one year for non-custodial sentences. These periods would apply to all offenders, except those serving life sentences. To allay fears, the new provisions would not apply to jobs in sensitive occupations, for which applicants would still have to declare their full criminal record. I have incorporated this proposal for reform into my Bill.

A reformed system along these lines would greatly reduce the scope of unfair discrimination against ex-offenders in the job market. Regrettably, such discrimination is still widespread. I declare my interest as the president of the National Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders, a charity working in the area of crime reduction. Surveys of ex-offenders that we have undertaken in projects have shown that 60 per cent have been explicitly refused jobs because of their criminal records. Nacro’s report Change the Record, published in 2010, stated that,

“employers are increasingly demanding ‘clear disclosure’ from applicants. This means that employment is conditional on having no record whatsoever”.

A study in 2006 by the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development also found that 36 per cent of employers would refuse jobs to all ex-offenders, whatever the nature their record.

It is sometimes reasonable to refuse an ex-offender a job because of his record. For example, we must obviously bar offenders with a history of offences against children from working with children and we should bar offenders with a history of defrauding elderly people from work caring for elderly people. However, in many cases employers are turning down applicants because of offences that have no relevance whatever to the jobs for which they are applying. The scope of discrimination is wide, because decisions to employ or to refuse people jobs are not made at the top of companies; they are made by large numbers of individuals, managers and personnel staff, who have usually had no specific training in how to deal with applications from people with criminal records. A large-scale study by the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust found that no private sector employers and only one in seven public sector employers in the sample had provided specific training on this point to staff making recruitment decisions.

The risk of discrimination against ex-offenders in the job market is even greater at a time of economic difficulty, when the country has not long emerged from the recession and employers have a wider choice of job applicants. The Home Office review group’s report, Breaking the Circle, estimated that reform of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act would save the country £125 million, something that I am sure would appeal to my noble friend Lord McNally. This was based on the estimate that it would result in 12,500 additional people finding work each year, saving £50 million in welfare costs together with savings to the criminal justice system of £75 million. This estimate was a very conservative one as it did not take into account the extensive social cost of continued unemployment, such as physical and mental health problems or a return to drug use.

I pay tribute to the organisations that have been very helpful over many years in campaigning for reform of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. I pay particular tribute to Nacro, UNLOCK and the Prison Reform Trust. Nacro’s report, Change the Record, points out:

“The current Act is at odds with the Government’s rehabilitation revolution, its initiatives to get people off benefits and back to work and its big society plans to create a more equal society in which everyone has the chance to contribute to the prosperity of their communities”.

Unfair discrimination against ex-offenders is wrong in principle, as it imposes an additional illegitimate penalty of refusal of employment on people who have already served the judicially ordered punishment for their crime. It also reduces public safety, as an ex-offender’s risk of reoffending reduces by between a third and a half if he or she gets, and keeps, a job. The whole community benefits when offending is reduced, but employers benefit in particular because crime such as cheque and credit card fraud, shoplifting and burglary of commercial premises have a particularly damaging impact on their businesses.

I was therefore delighted to read in the Green Paper Breaking the Cycle that the coalition Government are taking a fundamental look at the objectives of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act with a view to reform. I am particularly pleased that the Green Paper says at paragraph 115 that the Government are considering,

“broadening the scope of the Act so that it covers all offenders who receive a determinate sentence”,

and,

“reducing the length of rehabilitation periods”.

Those are two key aims of my Bill and I welcome the Government’s support for them. The reform contained in my Bill would allow many more people with criminal records to start again with a clean slate. They would thereby reduce the risk of further offending by former offenders excluded from the job market. I look forward to the Minister’s reply with confidence that the long-awaited and long-overdue reform of the Act is now at last in sight. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his very positive statement, and of course I am delighted to be able to co-operate fully, as he has proposed, in the forthcoming legislation. In his actions he has also established a deep bond between the leader and the deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, and long may it continue.

I cannot miss this opportunity to thank all noble Lords who participated. We have had a very hectic week and I do not wish to inflict further pain but I cannot fail to point out that we have heard some remarkable maiden speeches from my noble friends who participated in this debate. As my noble friend Lord McNally said, the House is at its best when, despite some serious disagreements on occasion, it deals with social issues. This debate is an example of the unanimity that we can achieve in a cause for which we are all fighting.

I intend at some stage to have discussions with the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, about his concerns and to see how those matters can be taken up in discussions with the Minister. I would also be failing in my duty if I did not thank my own—completely voluntary—Bill team: Paul Cavadino from Nacro and Julie Wright of UNLOCK. They helped me to shape the Bill. I must also thank the noble Lord, Lord Bach, for his compliments. He also mentioned Scotland. We deleted part of those provisions for the very reason he suggested—that it is a devolved matter. We have had discussions with them, and I am glad that my noble friend Lord McNally will be visiting Scotland. I hope he will be able to take the matter up with them. I therefore ask the House to give the Bill a Second Reading.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Crime: Age of Responsibility

Lord Dholakia Excerpts

Monday 20th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Earl’s continuing interest in these matters. I do not think that there is a conflict between the age of criminal responsibility and the kinds of concerns that he expresses. The whole thrust of our policy is to intervene as early and as positively as possible with young offenders. The factors that lead young people to offend are complex and can often include the circumstances that the noble Earl mentioned. That is why children who offend are referred to local multi-agency youth offending teams, which take a holistic approach to tackling the causes of offending, including housing, education, health and parenting issues.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, the Minister and his department have taken some good initiatives in recent days on criminal justice matters, but does he not accept that the age of criminality is far too low for children and its impact on their rehabilitation is far too severe? Will he look at international practices in relation to children and consider what good practices could be adopted in this country, bearing in mind that we have probably one of the lowest ages of criminal responsibility?

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, I concede that we are at the lower end of the age of criminal responsibility. The department and all the authorities concerned look at international comparisons and practices. For the moment, we hold firm that, although the age of criminal responsibility is 10 years, the thrust of the policy when children come into the care of the authorities is not to feed them into the criminal justice system but to apply as vigorously and, as I mentioned in my previous answer, holistically as possible responses to their needs to try to avoid them reoffending.