Army 2020

Lord Dannatt Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My noble friend makes a very good point. This is not a matter for politicians; it is a matter for the Army. It must decide how these regiments will go forward and whether antecedents will be included. I go back to the point I made about The Rifles and how successful the term “The Rifles” has been and how proud soldiers serving in The Rifles are of that.

I can come up with a better answer for the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, about the best in class. Clearly, we are not able to compete with the United States but the British Army is the partner of choice within NATO for its strength and capability.

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, the Statement quite rightly draws favourable attention to the work of the Chief of the General Staff. I certainly echo that. He and his staff have made a very good fist out of the problem that was passed to them. But does the Minister accept that there are elements of risk that are beyond the capability of the Chief of the General Staff to manage himself within current Army resources? We all know that in the past two years of the current Government major decisions have been made on defence—in shorthand terms, prioritising a number of equipment programmes over manpower. That has brought us today to the announcement of a reduction in the size of the Army by 20%—a very sobering day for the Army, whichever way you look at it. Will the Minister assure the House that he will keep these elements of risk under review?

The risks I point to in particular are whether the noble intention to furnish the size of the Army up by a further 30,000 from the reserve will come about successfully. One hopes it will but there is an element of risk in it. Secondly, the Army’s equipment also carries a fair degree of risk. It lacks a protected manoeuvre capability for those armoured infantry brigades. Protected mobility has come out of Afghanistan with the armoured vehicles that have been provided for that operation but battlefield manoeuvre is woefully lacking and unlikely to be fielded until 2022. So will the Minister assure the House that these areas of risk will be kept under review, particularly in the context of the strategic defence review of 2015?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I cannot commit any future Government to what comes out of the SDSR in 2015 but I can assure him that we, and I think any sensible Government, will keep all these issues under review. On the noble Lord’s point about risk, I discussed this at some length with the Chief of the General Staff and he is very confident that he is on top of this issue and that we can handle any risk in future.

Armed Forces Day

Lord Dannatt Excerpts

Thursday 28th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the Armed Forces will be very grateful for the Opposition’s continued support, and I share the noble Lord’s admiration for the courage of Ben Parkinson in Doncaster. With regard to discrimination, the Cabinet sub-committee on the Armed Forces covenant, chaired by Oliver Letwin, will oversee work across government and ensure that momentum on all strands of the covenant is maintained. The noble Lord asked whether we are doing enough to spread the message. Armed Forces Day now has over 1 million followers on Facebook, and this shows just how much the day has caught the imagination of people in this country. We will keep the level of assistance that we provide under review. However, one of the most remarkable features of Armed Forces Day is the way in which the lead is being taken by communities themselves, rather than here in Whitehall.

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, it fairly reflects the view of those who are serving, have served in or are veterans of our Armed Forces when they say how grateful they are for the upsurge in support from the British public over the past four or five years for what they have been doing. However, there are genuine concerns about the sustainability of Armed Forces Day, notwithstanding the Minister’s previous Answer. Will he consider asking his officials to conduct a survey in the coming months of the number of cities, towns and communities that have laid on activities for this Armed Forces Day, compare them with the activities on Remembrance Sunday and the remembrance period, and try to validate the thought that a better model for the sustainable recognition of our Armed Forces in the future might be to combine on one day—probably in November—the celebration of those who have served our nation in uniform with remembering the sacrifice of those who have lost their lives?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I will certainly take the noble Lord’s suggestion back to my department. I can assure him that I have a list here of all the events taking place throughout the country, and there seems to be a great deal of enthusiasm from all sections of the country.

Armed Forces: Afghanistan

Lord Dannatt Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I think that that is a very gloomy statement, and I do not share the noble Lord’s views on this.

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, would the Minister like to comment a little further on some of the equipment issues arising from our withdrawal from Afghanistan, in particular noting that many of the vehicles we use to provide protected mobility have been bought under the urgent operational requirement scheme specifically for Afghanistan? Would he comment about future protected mobility for the infantry in particular, given that the FRES utility programme has slipped from 2012 to about 2022?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, there never was an intention to deploy FRES to Afghanistan. The Government have deployed a range of protected mobility vehicles, including the Mastiff, which is highly valued by our troops. The new Foxhound lightweight protected vehicle is being delivered for training purposes now so that those deploying shortly will be able to use it on operations in Afghanistan from the spring.

Armed Forces Bill

Lord Dannatt Excerpts

Tuesday 4th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lyell]

I hope that I am not too late or out of order; I do not know if the noble Lord who has just spoken was the prime mover of the amendment.

I was listening to the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, as well as comments made earlier in the proposition of Amendment 6, and became interested in the devolved Administrations and the noble Lord’s comments about the First Minister of Scotland. Today’s proceedings would be of enormous interest to relevant Ministers, let alone the First Minister and other Ministers in Scotland. I hope that any measures added to the Bill, or which come to the devolved Assemblies and Parliament, will be relevant and brief, and are able to branch out, year by year, as per the thoughts and experience of the noble Lord, Lord Empey.

I would be worried if what we are discussing today about the devolved Administrations were unnecessarily burdensome in outlook and discussion. I get a trifle worried about the financial implications and arguments on expenditure for servicemen, their families and others, but particularly for veterans. I broke my leg as a young conscript 50 years ago and other servicemen who served with me might have had injuries. The thought of them being able to use the measures, let alone the finances, we have discussed this afternoon to come back now to receive compensation or bring up a problem worries me mildly.

What my noble friend has indicated and the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, are very helpful. I hope that a form of words can be found that will achieve everything that he wants from the devolved Administrations and can be knitted on to the funds that come from what I call this Parliament.

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, I contribute at this stage of our proceedings because Amendments 6 and 7 are critical to this whole debate. They encompass our concern about incorporating the responsibilities of all government departments, and our desire to make sure that the serving and veteran communities are both looked after adequately and properly, within all the constituent parts of the United Kingdom. These two amendments really get at the substance of what this debate and this stage of the Bill is about.

That said, I would be quite happy if the second issue to which I draw attention—how these things are implemented—was attended to in a way that I, at least, was comfortable with. There has been discussion this afternoon of the possibility of looking at the position of chairman of the covenant reference group. I am firmly of the view that, as distinguished and expert as that person might be, a three-star civil servant in the Cabinet Office is not the right person, either by experience or position, to be the chairman of the covenant reference group. I do not believe that a person like that can inspire the confidence and trust to which the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, has referred twice this afternoon.

The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, made some reference in speaking to his amendment to the idea of a commissioner having more favour that we had perhaps originally thought. If there is an absolute desire in the Government not to accept any changes to the Bill—I personally regret that, given the amount of energy, time and enthusiasm that has got us here so far—and it is their determined position not to accept any amendments, and if there is the possibility of going down a secondary legislation route, then, if a chairman of the covenant reference group of a thoroughly senior and independent standing were put in place, I, for one, would have confidence that the substance was going to be delivered and that I would be comfortable with that process.

I have been talking about the military covenant—now the Armed Forces covenant—fairly volubly for the past five years. I am delighted by where we have reached. Let us not fall at the last fence. Let us really bang this one home. The soldiers, sailors, marines, their families and veterans want to see this absolutely nailed for all time so that they know they will be looked after now and in the future. All Members of this House and all political parties would wish to support that. Let us not pass this up by being parsimonious against a tight parliamentary timescale. Please, find a way to do it—it can be done.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, noble Lords have made some very important points on both amendments this afternoon. I have listened very carefully. I repeat what I said earlier on the first group. Noble Lords wish to be absolutely clear as to which parts of government participated in the process of preparing the report and what position they have taken. My ministerial colleagues and I have already indicated that the Secretary of State will consult widely and will identify the source of the evidence and opinions that we include in the report. We have also noted that the annual report will be laid before Parliament on behalf of and with the approval of the whole Government. Nevertheless, I can go further by giving an undertaking that the Secretary of State will consult all UK government departments with a significant role in the delivery of services to serving personnel, veterans and their families and the three devolved Administrations. In the annual report he or she will confirm that he or she has consulted other government departments and the devolved Administrations, and will identify their contributions in the published report.

Having said all this, I will reflect again over the next day or two with my ministerial colleagues. I have asked my officials to do the same across government as a matter of urgency. I will be in touch with the noble and gallant Lord as soon as possible.

Baha Mousa Inquiry

Lord Dannatt Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, I was the Chief of the General Staff in 2008 when, in conjunction with the then Secretary of State for Defence, the noble Lord, Lord Browne, it was agreed that the inquiry that has reported today should be convened. We knew that at some point in the future today would come and that this report would be difficult and a very uncomfortable experience. The inquiry reports on grave and shameful events but rightly says that they are a shocking deviation from the normal standards of behaviour expected from the Army.

We have rightly apologised to and compensated the family of Mr Baha Mousa. Of course, that is no real compensation for what happened. Does the Minister agree with me that today’s report would not have come about had the Army not been open and transparent prior to the inception of this inquiry, and that it was only the publication of the Aitken report—we commissioned that internal report ourselves as we were already disturbed by what we had learnt—that brought about the decision by the then Secretary of State for Defence, the noble Lord, Lord Browne, to instigate this report? I offer that comment and look to the Minister for agreement simply to enable me to say that we do not, and will not, tolerate disgraceful behaviour from any rank in the Armed Forces or the Army. High standards, according to our core values and standards, are absolutely key when we deploy on a foreign operation, and do so in a position, whether wittingly or unwittingly, close to the moral high ground, and knowing that when actions like this occur we fall from the high ground to the valley in a trice under the full glare of the media.

Today is a desperately sad day for the reputation of the Army and for a number of members of it who know that their conduct has been less than it should have been and can be described only as disgraceful. However, we have tried to cover up nothing. The Aitken report laid the foundation which gave the previous Government the opportunity to instigate this inquiry. We fully accept its outcome.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, of course, I agree entirely with the noble Lord. The Army has been very open and transparent and we should congratulate it on that. The noble Lord said that this is a sad day for the Army. It is a very sad day for a small number of people who behaved outrageously. The Army should be congratulated on the very open and transparent way in which it has reacted. The noble Lord said that he was the Chief of the General Staff when the noble Lord, Lord Browne, set up the report. I compliment the noble Lord, who is not in his place, on setting up this very important report.

Armed Forces Bill

Lord Dannatt Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Grand Committee

I hope that between now and Report we can reflect on this, but I congratulate the right reverend Prelate on tabling Amendment 2 and speaking so eloquently and sensibly about the issue.

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, I rise principally to support Amendment 2, tabled by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Wakefield. I also support Amendments 3, 5, 9, 12 and 13. It seems to me that those amendments get to the person, position and authority required to fully deliver on the Armed Forces covenant.

Despite the best efforts of the Secretary of State for Defence and his predecessors—and of their junior Ministers—who have been charged over the years to deliver what we now know as the Armed Forces covenant, we have not been able to do enough to bring it into balance. On the one hand, the so-called covenant recognises the legitimate work given by the elected Government of the day to those members of the Armed Forces and their predecessors to do what they are required to do in the best interests of the nation, while on the other hand providing for the legitimate needs of individual servicemen and their families—and of their forebears, the veterans. That is why we are at a balance.

Amendment 2 is about a reviewer. That has much to commend it. The others that I referred to are about the ministerial responsibility. The idea articulated particularly by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham—that the Minister should be not in the Ministry of Defence but in the Cabinet Office, and therefore with pan-Whitehall observation and ministerial responsibility for veterans affairs—has a lot of merit. This once-in-five-years opportunity should be seized. There is a mood in the country at present that we must do better for our veterans, and indeed for our current service men and women and their families. Therefore, I ask the Minister to pick up that mood and reflect with other members of the Government on whether this is an opportunity to improve things in the best interests of those who lay their lives on the line for the nation, those who have done so in the past, and their families.

[Lord Patel]

My Lords, I have my name down to support Amendment 11 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar. The comments that the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Stamford, made about the amendment in no way diminish the important point that it tries to make. It is about collecting information relating to healthcare needs “affecting service people”—that is specified by the amendment, and includes families—

“including issues related to access to healthcare”.

There was a clear deficit in access to healthcare by service personnel and their families.

In my time, I have had the privilege to serve on the peer review board, ably and effectively chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Dean, and as a member of the Armed Forces equality and diversity advisory group, and I have come across many service personnel and their families. Being the only doctor on the board it was inevitable that they spoke to me about health issues. There was a clear deficit in access to healthcare by service personnel and their families, and in the kind of care offered to those who suffered injuries and whose surgical repair required long-term care, particularly physiotherapy, to make them fit again. That was absent. To have a covenant that requires the authorities to produce a report that tracks the healthcare needs of service personnel and their families is extremely important. We need a commitment to look after them as they move about. Their usual comments were that they had to join the end of the queue again on the waiting list as they moved from one place to another. The amendment makes a commitment to collect that information. Although the amendment refers to “research” it is not research in the true sense, but collecting information. I do not believe that the amendment would add an extra burden in any way.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, in the spirit of not wanting to be guilty of repetition, I want to speak in favour of these three amendments. They highlight a number of the aspects that this debate is touching on. The amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, looks at the distinctions being made between England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We have heard that distinctions quite rightly exist between the needs of serving service personnel and veterans. There are distinctions between that part of the welfare that can be dealt with by the Ministry of Defence and that which is dealt with by other government departments. Further, there are the things in the defence area that are properly dealt with by the Ministry of Defence and others which are dealt with by the service charities. Whichever way you look, there are lots of distinctions, and we have to agree that the situation is complex.

Complexity does not equate with saying, “This is too difficult so we are not going to address it”, but that there is no simple solution to governmental responsibilities. Ministers in various departments must retain responsibility for those things that are their responsibility, so the issue is finding a solution to the lack of co-ordination and dealing with complexity.

Currently, the Bill provides that, in effect, the Government are being asked to mark their own exam paper. I do not think that is right. We put a question to the previous Government, who chose not to go down the track, which I shall repeat. Would they consider putting in place a reviewer? The right reverend Prelate mentioned this, while earlier in his career the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, was HM Chief Inspector of Prisons. If we had a commissioner looking into all aspects of this, he could bring together the Government, the public, private and the charitable sectors. That would not take away the challenge to the Government of Parliament, but someone would have the responsibility for drawing the threads together and holding all the bodies to account, which would give a comprehensive picture of the myriad dimensions I have described. Perhaps the Government would give this some consideration, and if it cannot be done, perhaps they will give us a cogent explanation of why it cannot be done.

Afghanistan

Lord Dannatt Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point. We are not living in a perfect world but we are doing our very best. As for the ANSF, it is becoming much more professional, much better trained and bigger. We are about to begin implementing the security transition process by which the Afghan forces will take the lead. It will be a gradual, condition-based process that is on track to put the ANSF in security lead in all provinces by the end of 2014.

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, would the Minister care to comment on the improving situation, in Helmand in particular, with regard to the poppy harvest? Does he agree that we are never likely to have a more stable Afghanistan while its economy is largely based on the illegal activity of growing the poppy for opium? Can he comment on the progress that we have made in changing farming practices and, therefore, the economy in the country over the past two, three or four years?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, yes, we are making progress on that point. The noble Lord mentioned corruption. Our support for the Afghan Government cannot be unconditional. The Afghan Government must ensure that British taxpayers’ money is spent well and wisely, and President Karzai must personally grip the problems around the Kabul Bank and the need for the new IMF programme.

Armed Forces Bill

Lord Dannatt Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, much of what is in this five-yearly revisitation of the legislation that regulates the procedures of the Armed Forces has already been well aired and debated, but I would like to draw attention to three particular aspects of the Bill: the covenant, changes to the service police and the call out of reserves. All these, I believe, are important for differing reasons.

Much has already been said about the Armed Forces covenant, but I would like to give my cautious support to this proposal. My support is cautious for several reasons. Frankly, I would prefer to call it a military covenant rather than the more politically correct Armed Forces covenant; but whether specific mention is made or not, rather like the unwritten quality of the British constitution, there always has been and always will be what I would call a military covenant. It is that hitherto unspoken and unspecified balance, on the one hand, between the legitimate work demanded of the Armed Forces by the elected Government of the day on behalf of the nation, and, on the other hand, the nation's ability, through the Government of the day, to look after and meet the legitimate individual needs of our sailors, soldiers, airmen and marines, their families and our veterans. When the work demanded and the needs met are in balance, the services can run hot and at a high operational tempo; but when they are out of balance, the pressure rises, the heat increases, sparks fly and our servicemen begin to vote with their feet. In my view, we were close to the brink in 2005-06, and many believe that we are getting close again now. Once over the brink, in manning terms at least, freefall is very difficult to arrest.

Do we need a covenant enshrined in law? For the last 300-odd years we have not. However, if the moral obligation on the Government of the day to do the right thing by those who risk their lives on behalf of the nation cannot be guaranteed as an automatic response, perhaps we do now need a legal obligation. Therefore I give my cautious support to this clause in the Bill, but I am pleased to note that the provision is in principle only, not in detail. That said, the success of this part of the Bill, as many noble Lords have said, is not in its drafting and enactment but in its delivery. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, earlier quoted Rudyard Kipling, reminding us that,

“Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!”,

and I believe that, in the years ahead, Tommy will be watching very closely.

Straying slightly from the specifics of this Bill, I point out that the provision for the needs of our service people and veterans has never been just the responsibility of the Government. The British way of doing this has always been an amalgam of the best efforts of the public, private and charitable sectors. If that were not so, how did the Royal Hospital Chelsea or the Erskine Hospitals in Scotland come about, to name but two institutions? However, to be really effective, the three sectors need to co-operate together, be well co-ordinated and perhaps even become more integrated. For that to happen, there needs to be a common vision, an agreed plan and, above all, acknowledged leadership. This is not currently in the Bill. Perhaps the Minister would reflect on whether, when the current defence reforms have stopped erroneously targeting the individual service chiefs, effort might be concentrated on arguing for an increased overall defence budget and on thinning down the stultifying bureaucracy and unnecessarily complex decision-making processes within the MoD’s head office. When that part of the defence reforms has happened, the physical space in the MoD main building vacated by the departed staff might be offered to the service charities in order that they can co-locate under one roof, cut down on their overhead costs and increase their co-operation one with another, perhaps one day leading to full integration, with the obvious benefits of greater efficiency and effectiveness, in the best interests of our service community and our veterans. I am not alone in commending that thought.

Turning to the service police—and I declare an interest, having been Colonel Commandant of the Royal Military Police for six years—I very much welcome their removal from the chain of command with regard to investigations. It has been too easy to allege improper interference in such investigations, and therefore the proposals in the Bill are timely and sensible, as, in my view, are the recommendations for Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary to inspect and report on the service police. I do not believe that hitherto the service police have had anything to hide—and therefore they have nothing to fear—but the transparency injected into the process will boost the confidence of all concerned in those aspects of the military policing and judicial system.

Finally, I turn to the clause relating to the call out of reserves. This is a most welcome and timely proposal. Hitherto, in the face of natural disaster, terrorist attack or a sudden security threat, it has not been possible, despite the natural enthusiasm of individual members of our Reserve Forces, to mobilise them legally for these important duties in support of the civil power. Yes, there have been, and are, well-honed procedures for military support for the civil community, the civil ministries and the civil power, but these are provided almost exclusively from the Regular Forces of the Crown. Under this clause, Reserve Forces can be called out for,

“urgent work of national importance”.

This means that such mobilisation will give the individual reservist the same rights and protection in being called out for duty at home as he or she would receive when mobilised for deployed operations abroad or for war. For the reservist this is truly transformational, and for the nation it makes a significant resource available, should the need arise—and I suspect that the drafters of this part of the Bill had not completely forgotten the Olympics next year.

I close on another word of caution. The risks of increased use of an increased number of Reserve Forces must be weighed against the financial temptation to reduce our Regular Forces. In land force terms, it is superficially attractive to talk about a future Army of 120,000 with two-thirds regular and one-third reservist. However, although the costs may be attractive, one has to ask: is an Army of 80,000 regulars large enough to do what the challenges of the future might throw at us, and can we recruit a Reserve Force of 40,000 when today, even in a period of high unemployment, we are struggling to man a Reserve Force of 30,000? There is no question that the Armed Forces could not have done what they have done over the past 10 years without the mobilisation of large numbers of reservists, but this admirable legislation for necessary and urgent work of national importance at home must not become a Trojan horse for the wholesale emasculation of our Regular Forces.