Religious Intolerance and Prejudice

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 17th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Singh of Wimbledon, has given us several thoughts for the day in that rather splendid speech, the subtext of which was that hostility is bred from and fed by ignorance. That is something we should all bear in mind. In his very interesting speech, the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, talked about our becoming an “ugly and intolerant” society. He went on to indicate that ugliness and intolerance are fed and propagated by social media. We have to bear that in mind.

It is difficult when you are the last speaker in a debate to say anything new, as the noble Lord, Lord Desai, said, but I want to try to put this in a historical perspective. When I go across to the great cathedral in whose shadow we live in Lincoln, I go in—perhaps appropriately for a politician—through the Judgement Porch, and the first thing I see are the remains of the shrine of Hugh of Lincoln, who was canonised in 1220. We will be commemorating that in a couple of years’ time. His shrine, which was a centre of pilgrimage second only, for part of the Middle Ages, to that of Thomas of Canterbury, was despoiled—smashed up—and his body taken. He had two shrines, one for his body and one for his head. This was during a period of repression, when Henry VIII, having despoiled and dissolved the monasteries, was taking the treasures from our cathedrals and did not like the idea of shrines, making an exception only for the shrine of Edward the Confessor across the road, because it was pointed out to him that Edward was a king as well as a saint.

I go into that cathedral and look at that shrine. As I walk down to St Hugh’s Choir I see more evidence of intolerance: all the brasses commemorating great figures were ripped up, not during the Reformation but 100 years later at the time of the English Civil War. Then I see the most moving thing of all—one entirely relevant to today’s debate: the shrine of Little St Hugh. Until the last century the story was told of how Hugh, a little gentile boy, wandered into the Jewish quarter of Lincoln. We had—and I am proud that we had—a Jewish community in Lincoln of enormous importance in the Middle Ages, of whom St Hugh was a great protector. St Hugh was dead by this time. The little boy did not re-emerge, and the story was told that he had been set upon and murdered by the Jewish community. Many of them perished because of that. This was an early example of anti-Semitism, and within a few decades the Jews had been expelled from England by Edward I. They did not return until the time of Oliver Cromwell, who did not bring them back because of great tolerance on his part—he was not the most tolerant of men—but because he thought that they could contribute to society and the economy, as they undoubtedly did.

That early example of anti-Semitism should bring us all up sharp. Only about 30 years ago the Chief Rabbi, I think—it was certainly a very senior rabbi—came to Lincoln and, in a very moving ceremony, a plaque was put up that ended with the word “Shalom”, indicating that this was a deed of which we should all be ashamed. You cannot apologise for what other people did centuries ago, but you can deeply regret it and feel ashamed of it. I always think of that when I go into the cathedral, and I think also of the hatred and bitterness of those times, which, sadly, is being replicated in our own time.

However, we must be very careful when deploring these things not to get the whole issue out of perspective. The most reverend Primate touched on this when he talked about the importance of freedom of speech. One of the things that has made our country great over the centuries has been true freedom of speech. We cannot legislate against human feelings. Although it is right to punish hatred, we have to be careful how we define it. Something you deplore, which you yourself might hate, can be entirely legal. I was brought up always to think of the words of Voltaire:

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”.


We have to be very careful when discussing these things not to get them out of perspective. Hatred is always to be deplored. To hate a man or woman for his or her religious belief is about as low as you can get. But we have to be careful. We have to recognise that a repudiation of a belief, even if it is a Christian belief that I, as a Christian, might deplore and deeply regret, is not in itself a gesture of hatred. The most reverend Primate the Archbishop touched on that.

If I were to give your Lordships an example of what I am talking about, I would say, “Go across to the Abbey, where Stephen Hawking was commemorated. Pick up your paper of this morning, if you have not yet read it, and see that in his last work, he emphatically stated: there is no God; there is no afterlife”. Yet, a truly tolerant society properly recognises that man’s genius and his contribution to the degree that he is memorialised in the Abbey along with so many of those who have made our country what it is. We must be very careful indeed in deploring hatred. In seeking to protect those who wish to practise their beliefs, we have to be careful that we do not slip over the edge and trash our own reputation for freedom of speech.

I was one of those who was very glad last week when I read that judgment of the Supreme Court, which has been referred to in this debate. The cake bakers of Belfast were exonerated, not because they had refused to serve anybody—they had not refused to do that—but because they refused to put a slogan in which they could not believe on a cake. That was a very important landmark judgment, and I hope it will play a part in making us more understanding of each other. I was very glad to see an article in a paper that is not necessarily my favourite, the Daily Mail, the next day, by a journalist who himself is gay, saying how much he supported the judgment and that he would think of commissioning a cake from those people to mark his own civil partnership. That is beginning to get the balance right, and we must get it right.

I want to touch on one other thing. I have very great admiration for my noble friend Lord Pickles, and I have as much legitimate hatred as he has for the Holocaust. As the founder chairman of the campaign for the release of Soviet Jewry, I think my creditworthiness in being fundamentally opposed to anti-Semitism is okay. I was also one of those who spoke out in the other place, when neither Front Bench would do so, against the atrocities in Bosnia, and Srebrenica in particular.

It is right that we should commemorate and remember these things, but we must also have regard to where it is best to do so. I have to say to my noble friend Lord Pickles that although I yield to no one in wanting to see a Holocaust memorial, I think that the site chosen is not necessarily the best. Seven Members of your Lordships’ House, all or most of whom were Jewish, sent a letter to the Times on this subject, and I hope my noble friend will be prepared to reflect further on that.

We have had a good debate and I see that, at 12 minutes, my speech has been one of the shortest. As I sat through every single speech I began to think that there was something to be said for a 10-minute time limit. That I have exceeded, but now I look forward to the final speeches, by the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, and my noble friend Lord Bourne, of what has been a remarkable few hours.

Short-Term Holiday Lets

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, there is no specific Airbnb concession nor one for Short Term Accommodation Association members. They have to pay tax in the normal way, just as the noble Lord and I have to do, and if they are not paying tax that is illegal. However, in defence of Airbnb, it is operating within the law. In London it cannot go further than 90 days. It is prohibited from doing that by the system which it has introduced, which I have seen.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, at about this time last week my noble friend the Minister did refer to firms acting,

“in a risky and nefarious way”.—[Official Report, 13/6/18; col. 1726].

One did rather draw from that the inference that some action was being contemplated. Can he give the House some idea of what he has in mind?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the position regarding the short-term letting area of activity is that it is very much something that the Government encourage. We have a 90-day limit in London, while outside of London there is no restriction in the UK. It is something that operates totally within the law, but if there is a breach, the law should be enforced by the relevant agency. That agency is often but not always the local authority.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Committee: 11th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 28th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ludford]

My Lords, to go slightly beyond the terms of the amendment, as foreshadowed in the words of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, the issue of principle appears to extend to giving the Government the power not only to decide whether something is to be published but to decide whether they are satisfied that it is retained direct EU legislation. Following the debate on the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Patel, about clinical trials regulation, there have been exchanges and meetings.

Apparently, I am wrong about that. I am told that at some point I will get a blow-by-blow explanation. The Minister sighs, but no one has actually explained. There is a contradiction between the drafting in the Bill and the Explanatory Notes. The Minister is looking at me as if I am stupid. I am sorry about that, but we need to know the criteria by which the Government will precisely decide whether an EU measure is retained EU law and, preferably, have a list of those measures. That would be transparent. We need both the criteria and the list. We cannot just leave it to the Government to decide not only whether they publish but whether an instrument is retained EU law. This has massive consequences in the real world, as does the clinical trials regulation. Researchers are leaving the country because they do not know whether we are going to continue to apply EU law. This is not nothing; it is an important matter.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, this is very important and the noble Baroness is entirely justified in getting a little worked up about it. I spent 40 years, almost to the day, in the other place. I never had a ministerial office and I was always deeply suspicious of Ministers exercising arbitrary power and of any measure that extended the opportunity for Ministers to exercise such powers. My noble friend Lord Hailsham intervened in the debate earlier this week to remind me—not that I needed reminding—of the importance of the Back-Bencher. The Government must always be answerable to Parliament. Giving a Minister an extra arbitrary power, be it in ever such a small degree, enables them to evade answerability to the elected House.

We are fortunate to have committees—the Constitution Committee and the committee of which the noble Lords, Lord Lisvane and Lord Tyler, are members—that act as watchdogs on behalf of this House and Parliament. As this Bill leaves our House, which it will do in a month or two, and goes back to the Commons, it must have been tightened up in as many particulars as possible so as to guarantee as much power as possible to the elected House.

[Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted]

My Lords, I will speak to the amendment in my name, in case other noble Lords want to come in on it. It relates to Part 2 of Schedule 5, on the rules of evidence. It is about regulations again, but in a different part of the schedule. I am sensitive to powers that potentially change what may or may not be available as evidence. This is a constitutional point, especially if it means disappearing cases or defences. I therefore find the provision in paragraph 4(3) of Schedule 5 too wide. It permits regulations under paragraph 4 to modify any provision made by or under any enactment made up to the end of the Session in which this withdrawal Bill is passed. That is basically all legislation until then.

I have tried to work out why this provision is needed and what it could do if abused, for that is the standard that we must measure against. In many discussions on wide powers, Ministers have protested good faith. Many of your Lordships have not doubted them but have still wanted safeguards, while others of your Lordships, including distinguished privy counsellors on the government side, have warned—or maybe confessed—that Ministers will abuse powers and have likewise suggested safeguards. This is all part of the “appropriate” versus “necessary” argument.

I was struck last Wednesday that, when the boot was on the other foot, the Government were less keen on having to rely on trust. About devolution, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Keen, said:

“If we look to the issue of consent, rather than consultation, let us be clear that it is not a question of trust but of constitutional propriety”.—[Official Report, 21/3/18; col. 403.]


I accept that the context is different, but the point that many of us have been trying to make about many powers in the Bill is just that: it is a matter of constitutional propriety between the Executive and Parliament and, indeed, the freedoms of the people.

Here we have another such power, even if it is small. It does not seem right that rules of evidence for admissibility could be changed, maybe quite widely, by amending any Act of Parliament, not necessarily limited to the consequences of Brexit. I have suggested adding a limitation, which would not allow use of the power for reducing the scope of what is admissible except for the purpose of replacing EU references with domestic ones. I thought that limitation was additionally relevant because the power to amend all pre-Brexit legislation seems to be perpetual. I was first inclined just to delete it, but I hope that my amendment will give the Minister an opportunity to clarify the kind of circumstances that are envisaged for the power, why it should be perpetual and whether some limitation could be envisaged to address my concerns.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

The noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, has been helpful to an extent by saying that the Queen’s printer is the Keeper of the National Archives. However, that raises the question: who is the Keeper of the National Archives?

[Lord Cormack]

His name is Mr Jeff James.

[Baroness Goldie]

Then I offer a heartfelt tribute to Mr Jeff James.

Integrated Communities

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 15th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank the noble Lord very much indeed and recognise the great role that he has played in this area over many years, just as he has referred to integration policies over many years. Of course, it is fair to make the point that the position in the country has also changed in that time, and the challenges are somewhat different, but I accept the great importance of ensuring that we have a consistent approach over time. There is broad—almost total—agreement across political parties, different communities, different religions and people of no religion as to how we should move forward. Once we have that agreement and framework from the consultation, we should be able to move forward.

I also echo what the noble Lord said about hate crime. There is something of a paradox, in that hate crime has no doubt increased in an awful way in some cases, but there is also more readiness to report it, which we all welcome. At the same time as the statistics are going up because there is an increase, they are also going up because there is better reporting. We continue to encourage that: people are more ready to report hate crime, and so they should be.

The five trailblazer areas are not the sum total of the Government’s ambition by any means, and I apologise if the Statement or my replies made it seem so. That is not the case. They are five areas where we especially want to see how policies work out because they have particular challenges in their different parts of the country, but this is a national policy for a national challenge: let that message go out.

The noble Lord rightly referred to the role of sport, the excellent Kick It Out campaign and the role of many football clubs, including my club, Leicester City. I only referred to the Bangla Bantams because the fire was perhaps a catalyst, but I accept that an awful lot of hard work went on to make the club happen. It happens in football and in other sports—athletics and so on—and that is also something that the Government are looking to encourage.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I shall ask my noble friend one simple question and then make a point. First, could he give us an idea of the timescale for the five pilot areas, accepting that they are pilot areas, and how he will report back to the House?

Just as it is very important indeed that people should know the English language well, will my noble friend also accept—the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, referred to Norman ancestry and all the rest of it—that people who are to become fully integrated into British society should have a reasonable knowledge of British history? Will he talk to bodies such as the Royal Historical Society, of which I happen to be a fellow, the Historical Association and others about devising for those who are being integrated into our community a history syllabus that enables them to have a reasonable chronological knowledge of the history of this country? Without that, they cannot feel fully part of it.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank my noble friend Lord Cormack very much indeed. The five areas that I mentioned—Blackburn with Darwen, Bradford, Peterborough, Walsall and Waltham Forest—are where we will be developing local integration strategies to address the particular problems of those areas. As the money that we have announced, the £50 million, is for the end of the CSR period, I think it will be a two-year programme. I will write to my noble friend if I am wrong on that.

On my noble friend’s point about British history, no one is better qualified to ensure that this happens than him. As someone who goes distinctly wobbly before the Tudors, I will ensure that the Home Secretary is aware of his interest, and he may want to contribute to the consultation, because this is something that the Home Office will be picking up.

Thirlmere Reservoir

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 25th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks with great authority, and clearly I am very much in agreement about the particular beauty and characteristics of the Lake District. As I say, I am not in a position, as noble Lords will understand, to comment on a live application—which I think will be considered by the national park authority on 7 March.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in reflecting on what the noble Lords, Lord Greaves and Lord Clark, have just said to the House, will the Minister also reflect that the first battle for Thirlmere was the beginning of the conservation movement? It took place in the 1870s and was supported by John Ruskin and Thomas Carlyle, and what a disgrace it would be if in the 21st century we were to desecrate this most beautiful part of Britain.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right that it is important to see the historical context of these things, just as the Kinder Scout “trespass” was very significant in terms of national parks. I am sure that noble Lords will appreciate that there is a very important constitutional and legal principle here—that, as the Government, we are unable to comment on a live planning application. However, as I said, the nature of the Lake District and of world heritage sites means that particular protections will apply.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords—

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Cormack]

I gave way last time.

[Noble Lords]

Tebbit!

National Life: Shared Values and Public Policy Priorities

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Friday 2nd December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we are all extremely grateful to the most reverend Primate for giving us the opportunity to have this wide-ranging debate. Having heard every single word that has been uttered, I can say it certainly has been a wide-ranging debate. During his extremely perceptive—I could almost use the word “visionary”—speech, the most reverend Primate talked about working towards a common purpose based on the shared values which, we have been reminded so often, are not uniquely British values but shared values that underpin any civilised society.

I could not help but think of the words said in the Chamber before the most reverend Primate made his splendid speech because, as with every last sitting day of the week, we began with Psalm 121, “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills”, although this morning we had it in the metrical version from the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester. When I go back to my home city of Lincoln and I look at the great and glorious cathedral on the hill, dominating not only the city but the countryside around, I think of how many people have been given inspiration and hope and have had their aspirations developed by that great building and all that it represents and encapsulates. And I cannot help but reflect that the true poor of the 21st century are those who have neither hope nor aspiration.

The real challenge facing us is to try to give to individuals a sense of hope and an aspiration. It is particularly germane at the moment because, without wanting to enter into the arguments over Brexit yet again, the fact of the matter is that, rightly or wrongly, many young people, including my grandchildren, feel that their hopes have been dashed and their aspirations reduced. It is up to us to try to prove them wrong, but that is how they feel, so this debate is indeed in every sense timely.

I want to give just two practical examples of how we could bring this sense of purpose to our national life. We have talked about the Abrahamic faith and other faiths. We had a very interesting speech from the noble Lord, Lord Singh, about the Sikhs. There is one thing that brings people of good will, whether of faith or not, together, and it is perhaps best encapsulated in the second great commandment, which is part of the communion service in the Anglican Church every week: “Love thy neighbour as thyself”, or in its secular version, “Do to others as you would be done by”.

I have said something similar to the most reverend Primate in the past, but I think he is in a unique position. As the senior Bishop under the Supreme Governor, Her Majesty the Queen, in the Anglican Communion he has a unique role. He can act as a catalyst. I would like to see, built on his splendid debate today, his taking a lead in bringing together the leaders of all faiths, whom I know he meets with regularly, and people of good will, including the humanists, to try and work out a charter of true values which can be inculcated in the young via their schools and universities.

That brings me on to my second point. At the risk of repeating things that I have said only recently, particularly in the presence of the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, I am a tremendous believer in our having a national citizenship scheme. I believe that every young person between the age of 15 and 18 should do some community service and receive a much higher level of citizenship education than is normally the case at the moment. When they reach the age of 18, they should make a public recognition not only of their rights but, to take up a point made a few moments ago by the noble Baroness, Lady Flather, of their responsibilities, so that they have a rite of passage, or coming of age as it were, where they become full citizens. I would like this to be accompanied by the sort of citizenship ceremony that many new British subjects go through when they proclaim their allegiance to their new country.

I offer these as practical suggestions to the most reverend Primate, and in doing so, thank him again for the inspirational lead he gave at the beginning of this debate, which has indeed underlined many of those shared values which all of us fundamentally hold dear.

Directly Elected Mayors

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 31st October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first of all, there is no question of areas having to have directly elected mayors: these are grass-roots decisions, brought forward by local authority leaders if they want elected mayors. There is nothing compulsory about it. However, it remains very much the case that that is the policy—the most ambitious deals will go forward only if they have directly elected mayors.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that in Lincolnshire, which is a large rural area, the county council overwhelmingly voted not to have a directly elected mayor, although it would welcome, and be able adequately to exercise, devolved functions? My noble friend, in his Answer, said, “particularly in cities”. Can he now say that it will not be necessary in rural areas?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first of all, I was aware of what happened in Lincolnshire. Of course it was not a definite, final decision: that will be taken only in the first two weeks of November. I have indicated that there have been deals without mayors—that was the case in Cornwall—but they were unambitious deals. It remains the case that, whether it is rural or urban, the most ambitious deals will have mayors.

Energy Bill [HL]

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 26th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Grantchester (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Motion A4, which contains my proposed Amendment 7TD.

Today, once again, your Lordships’ House returns to the Energy Bill. How deeply damaging the actions of the Government have been is evidenced again, at this late stage of the Bill between the two Houses, by the booklet produced with four amendments relating to the Government’s refusal to accept the considered amendment in your Lordships’ House a fortnight ago. All four amendments are targeted once again on the original two clauses relating to onshore wind that the Government inserted into the Bill following the success of the Conservative Party at the general election.

Let us not forget what was said a fortnight ago. Yes, the Conservative Party won the election. Yes, the party had an ambiguous passage in its manifesto regarding the end of subsidies to onshore wind. Whatever may be contended from the passage, the renewables obligation for onshore wind was drawing to a close in any case by 31 March 2017. By aggressively—some may say vindictively—bringing this forward to 18 June 2015, the Conservative Government were, at the stroke of an announcement, creating their own mess. Government must be an orderly process, not dogma followed by diktat.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, could the noble Lord not just reflect that the Conservative Government were doing no such thing? They were responding to demands and requests from all over the country.

[Lord Grantchester]

I well understand the words of the noble Lord, but my contention is that the Conservative Party was responding to the voice of UKIP.

Government must be an orderly process, not dogma followed by diktat. Under their own endeavours, following due process and local planning procedures, investors knew where they were and had to complete by 31 March 2017. By drawing the line somewhere with their grace periods, as we were ready to concede last week, the Government have arbitrarily cut a swathe across the many excellent schemes that were drawn up in good faith, with money invested and local backing, all to do their bit to decarbonise the UK’s energy sector.

Of course, any scheme falling on the wrong side of the line will be hurt. The amendments before your Lordships’ House contend that fairness and decency are still not in evidence within the Government’s concessions. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace of Tankerness, may well be right in his assertions under Amendment 7TC to allow Section 36 projects. Certainly, they are very similar to cases won on appeal after 18 June 2015 but refused planning permission prior to 18 June 2015, a situation allowable under the Government’s concessions. I pay tribute to him for the dedication he has committed to getting this situation resolved and I thank him for his introductory remarks today.

My noble friend Lord Foulkes of Cumnock also makes a compelling case for specific projects in Scotland. When noble Lords have received industry briefings covering a wide range of seemingly genuine cases, it underlines the huge damage the Conservative Government have created and unleashed in the renewables sector, especially in Scotland, with many jobs and livelihoods of hard-working farmers and others at stake.

My noble friend Lord Foulkes mentions the case of Sorbie, which, although called in by the Scottish Government, who subsequently withdrew any objection, was granted on appeal in November 2015. Can the Minister say why this is not covered by the concession to allow projects to proceed that were won on appeal? Has the Minister consulted with the Scottish Government on this case? I press the Minister to agree when he comes to reply that this case taken up by my noble friend is allowable.

On Amendment A1, in the name of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace, Amendment 7T is the one in my name which was accepted by your Lordships’ House a fortnight ago. I argued then that this was logically compatible with the concessions already accepted by the Government. The local planning authority had—I stress—indicated relevant planning consents, although written notice was delayed, due to a Section 75 or Section 106 agreement being needed, until after 18 June 2015. This cannot be said to be against Conservative Party policy. It is widely considered that the decision made by a democratically elected local planning committee embodies the principle of giving local people the final say. To deny these cases where written consent was made after 18 June 2015 is to deny and prevent local people having the final say on onshore wind applications due to a pedantic technicality, as the final say had effectively been made prior to that date. The projects have, arguably, a stronger case than those originally refused local consent before 18 June but subsequently won on appeal after that date. I am grateful that these arguments won the backing of your Lordships’ House a fortnight ago.

This amendment was judged to include all the cases—a total of seven—that could be argued to be a minimum of unfair treatments needing to be rectified. They amounted to 90 megawatts. The wider onshore industry has come to a consensus to support this single, narrow extension to the Government’s proposed grace period criteria. It is hugely frustrating to find your Lordships’ fair compromise rejected by the Government in the Commons.

Labour wants to stand up for Scotland. Six of these seven schemes affected by this extension are based in Scotland. The Government have gone against the general consensus to devolve to the Scottish people the power to resolve their own issues by claiming back to the Westminster Parliament the issuing of renewable obligation certificates, which are to be solely under the jurisdiction of the UK Parliament. I thank my noble friend Lady Worthington for her wider remarks regarding the same situation under CFDs.

Labour is standing up for jobs in Scotland. The Minister in the other place, Andrea Leadsom, accused Labour of adding costs to consumer bills through the £10 million extra these schemes, totalling 90 megawatts, would add to consumer bills. However, analysis by the Independent Renewable Energy Generators Group shows that, had the Government accepted this amendment, it would have actually saved consumers over £10 million a year, as renewable technologies other than onshore wind could cost £20 million a year—being more expensive than onshore wind—given the necessity to reform the UK’s electricity system and decarbonise the economy. Instead, these schemes will be mothballed in Scotland and could cost jobs there.

Draft Wales Bill: Silk Commission

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 30th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as I have indicated, significant progress is being made. I remind noble Lords that this is an ongoing process. It is not anticipated that this draft Bill will become a firm one until the end of next year. There is, therefore, a good period of time. I repeat that significant progress is being made and I am very happy to update the House as and when the process is concluded.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend will know that many of us in this House are concerned about piecemeal changes to the constitution and to the franchise. Is it not a pity that the power to give votes to 16 year-olds has been granted to the Welsh Assembly before the Parliament of the United Kingdom has been able to come to a considered conclusion on the matter?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I understand my noble friend’s views on this matter but I repeat that issues relating to election to the National Assembly for Wales are to be devolved in totality. It is a significant move to Wales, just as it is to Scotland, and it is for Wales to determine that issue.

Energy Bill [HL]

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 21st October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I did not want to make an intervention on an intervention, but may I say something now? I agree that we are talking about whether Clause 66 should stand, but the argument has constantly been widened, and the noble Baroness who just intervened raised again the question of what all this does to energy costs, and whether energy costs are important. The noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, made some comments about that as well. The facts are the facts. The director of the Energy Intensive Users Group has said that,

“a third of the cost of industrial electricity bills in Britain is being spent on green energy taxes, such as the two-year-old carbon price floor support mechanism … and this would rise to about half of all bills by 2020”.

The director of UK Steel has said that,

“rising energy costs were a critical reason for the crisis afflicting the industry, which also led to the collapse of the SSI steel plant in Redcar last month”.

And so it goes, on and on. We cannot just dismiss all this. It cannot be pushed away. I agree that it should not be the central issue in the debate on this clause, but some of the remarks that have been made cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged, because they are just not true.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I strongly support the wise words of my noble friend Lord Ridley. I am one of those who believes that certain types of power are uneconomic, unreliable and unsightly. It is because of the latter point as much as anything else that the Prime Minister made a commitment during the general election campaign, which was given force in the manifesto, that we would not fly in the face of local opinion, as we often have in the past, and build wind farms where they were not wanted. The manifesto commitment is entirely clear, and it is indeed flouting the Salisbury convention to seek to delete it. I very much hope that your Lordships will not do that. We have a duty to examine and scrutinise legislation, and when we believe it is wrong, to ask the other place to think again—but here we are seeking to delete a fundamental part of the Bill.

I am a great admirer of the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington; I hope that does not embarrass her. She brings real distinction to our debates, and she speaks from true knowledge—but, by Jove, she was fishing around this afternoon. I was somewhat amused when she tried to call in aid Lady Thatcher; I am not sure that Lady Thatcher would have entirely endorsed her remarks. She then made a lovely remark about Mr Corbyn, saying that he probably did not agree with fracking or nuclear power—but that didn’t matter, because it was not going to be reflected in Labour Party policy. We are clearly in a period of political anarchy at the moment, and it will be interesting to see how long Mr Corbyn lasts, and how long his party lasts with him—but that is not what we are debating this afternoon.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord O’Neill of Clackmannan]

The existing system may not be perfect and it is a source of frustration for many people, but it is tried and tested and it is seen to be fair. The implication of this legislation is that it is going to be set aside.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords—

[Lord O’Neill of Clackmannan]

I am sorry. I realise that we are moving towards a vote and I do not wish to take much more of the House’s time. All I want to say is this. It is very dangerous for people, first, to reinterpret manifestos once they have been the substance of electoral victory; and, secondly, to use that as an excuse to undermine elected representatives and local government who have a sensible and fair means of determining the priorities of the planning requirements for all of the communities they represent.

[Lord Wallace of Tankerness]

My Lords, I do not wish to detain the House for long. When we engaged after the debate on recommital late last week, we hoped that the Government might have moved a lot further than they did. I acknowledge the amendments that have been made, but they do not go to the heart of many of the concerns of the industry. In fact, there is still a blatant unfairness for those who have observed good practice and have tried to work with local planning authorities.

On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, that local democracy matters, developers have worked alongside communities and planning authorities, but because they did not take the route of having a deemed refusal, they are falling foul of this.

[Lord Cormack]

One of the things we have to bear in mind is that a number of wind farms were granted permission not by local authorities, but by being overruled from the top. Indeed, Lincolnshire County Council was against a number of wind farms that have been thrust upon the county.

[Lord Wallace of Tankerness]

I think that the noble Lord almost makes my point because, as far as I understand what is being proposed by the Government, local authorities which have refused an application before 18 June, but which was subsequently appealed successfully on a decision taken by Ministers, will actually qualify. But an agreement reached by locally elected people and a locally elected planning committee after debate, consideration and engagement with the local community, but where the subsequent consent as part of that route due to the cycle of meetings was not given until after 18 June will not qualify. Perhaps he has done so inadvertently, but the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, profoundly makes the point that we are making. There is an inconsistency and an unfairness in what the Government are proposing. There is inconsistency between Section 36 applications for smaller developments added on to existing developments and those which do not need Section 36 applications. I do not believe that the Government have made out the case for fairness of treatment, given the test which their own Minister articulated yesterday.

I am sure that we will debate the Salisbury convention at some stage, and I hope that we will take note of the report of the House of Lords and House of Commons Joint Committee on Conventions, which sat around 10 years ago. My noble friend Lord Wallace of Saltaire, who was then the deputy leader of my party in your Lordships’ House, emphasised the Liberal Democrats’ view that,

“‘the Salisbury-Addison Convention was an historical negotiation between the Labour Party in the Commons and the Conservative Party in the Lords’ and therefore not relevant to current circumstances”.

We articulated that position almost 10 years ago, and I think that the report itself accepted that things had moved on.

The noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, said that it was an opportunity for the Government to think again. We certainly want to engage with them in thinking again, because I do not believe that what we have at the moment is fair to developers who had a reasonable expectation that a system which was due to close in March 2017 has been brought forward by a year. In the end, as the Government’s own impact assessment states, the central estimate is around 30p on the electricity bill of the average household. Given the potential damage to the industry and the damage that this is doing to investor confidence in other areas of the renewable industry, it is important that the Government should think again. They have not been able to come up with satisfactory ways of addressing some of the many legitimate complaints that the industry has expressed.