Live Music Bill [HL]
Debate between Lord Colwyn and Lord Clement-Jones
Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords, both amendments relate to Clause 1 of the Bill. Amendment 1 is a minor, technical amendment which simply alters the heading of new Section 177A of the Licensing Act 2003 to refer to live music.
Amendment 2 deals with an unintended lacuna as regards unamplified music taking place in licensed premises with audiences of more than 200 persons so that it will be possible, under the new Section 177A, following a review of the licence or club premises certificate, to alter or add a condition about live music to make the condition effective in the same way as it is for events with audiences of no more than 200. This is a modest Bill, but one which will have major impact on the performance and enjoyment of live music, livelihoods—especially of young musicians—and the viability of our pubs and clubs.
As the Bill is briefly back in the Lords, it is a perfect opportunity to thank all those who helped to conceive it and to ensure its passage through both Houses by handing out my own Brit awards. It is the culmination of five years of concerted campaigning by many people, and I want to pay tribute to the original Live Music Forum; John Whittingdale, MP, and the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee; Equity; the MU; the Incorporated Society of Musicians; numerous organisations representing the licensed trade; Feargal Sharkey; and Jo Dipple of UK Music and its members. I also pay tribute to John Penrose, the Minister; my noble friend Lady Rawlings and the DCMS officials who have been unfailingly helpful on behalf of the Government; Members of all parties, both in this House and in the House of Commons, who have been so supportive of the Bill at all stages; and to Andrew Grimsey of Popplestone Allen, who drafted the Bill and advised on many technical aspects of licensing law. The greatest accolades, however, go to my honourable friend Don Foster, MP, who unerringly guided the Bill through the reefs and shoals of Commons procedure; and to my fellow long-distance runners, Hamish Birchall, live music campaigner, and our very own senior researcher in the Lib Dem Whips Office, Tom Kiehl, without either of whom it would not have been possible even to have got the Bill off the ground.
I look forward to an early commencement date, before the Queen’s Jubilee and the Olympics. At that time there will be suitable celebrations and performances, I hope, in pubs and clubs up and down the land. I beg to move.
Live Music Bill [HL]
Debate between Lord Colwyn and Lord Clement-Jones
Lord Colwyn
Does that include spontaneous dancing—where dancing was not intended, but the style of music changed the attitude?
Lord Clement-Jones
Dancing is often spontaneous. I am certain that the noble Lord, Lord Colwyn, engages in spontaneous dancing on frequent occasions, perhaps even when he is playing a musical instrument at the same time. However, technically speaking dancing in those venues, in licensed premises, requires a licence. The Bill is not designed to impact on the existing law. Future consultation may suggest that we can deregulate that—I firmly hope that we can, especially in small venues—so that the noble Lord will be freer to stand up and spontaneously dance in future, but that is not the intention behind the Bill.
Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for his extremely useful remarks. I also thank the Minister very much for her explanation of the Government’s position. I think that that is completely understood. Obviously I hope that we will be able to go further than we do in the Bill by extending the time to midnight after wider consultation. However, I understand the Government’s desire to have that wider consultation and, in the mean time, I am grateful to the Minister for giving us the background to their view.
Lord Colwyn
My Lords, the Minister should know that the licensee does not always have control over the finishing time. In London hotels, for example, the electricity can be turned off and the event will finish dead on time. However, it is up to the musicians when the party finishes, and I would hate a licensee to get into trouble if it carried on because the musicians continued playing.
Lord Clement-Jones
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Colwyn, for that intervention. With him, I am sure that the party never stops. I very much hope that there will be an understanding by musicians of the licensee’s position in those circumstances, although there obviously has to be some leeway and I hope that the lack of a licence is used responsibly in future. It is very much hoped that those who take advantage of the exemptions in the Bill do so in a responsible way which does not cause nuisance.