Superannuation Bill

Lord Colwyn Excerpts

Wednesday 10th November 2010 Grand Committee

[Lord McKenzie of Luton]

I shall speak to Amendment 11 only briefly since it generally goes over ground that we have covered quite extensively so far. It deals with the deletion of the provisions that enable the caps to be extended or revived after they have lapsed. I refer to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee report, which describes Clause 3(4)(c) as,

“somewhat different and more unusual”.

It goes on:

“This provision enables clause 2 to be revived at any time after its expiry or repeal, by order subject to affirmative procedure in the Commons. Paragraph 12 of the memorandum explains that the power is needed ‘if for some reason CSCS amendments cannot be implemented as anticipated’”.

It reaches this conclusion:

“The Committee considers that no convincing justification has been made for the unusual power in clause 3(4)(c)”.

Clause 3(4)(c) gives the power to revive the provisions. Can the Minister adduce greater justification than has been provided so far to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee?

The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee’s report also raises the question of to which House the proposed orders are to be made. It focuses on the fact that they will generally, under the Bill, be made to the House of Commons, rather than to your Lordships’ House as well. There were, I know, issues around whether it is a money Bill and whether these are financial provisions, but the report draws parallels with previous legislation that has come before your Lordships’ House. Perhaps in responding the Minister could cover that point as well.

My noble friend has not moved her amendment, the thrust of which I support. It seeks to achieve what we seek to achieve by removing the right to revive or extend the sunset clause by a different route. These amendments are all part of a package through which we object to the caps. We certainly object to their continuance and the opportunities for them to be revived after they have otherwise been repealed or lapsed.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Colwyn)]

If this amendment is agreed I would be unable to call Amendments 12 to 14 because of pre-emption.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

Before I reply to this, perhaps I may say a little about changing patterns of employment which affect redundancy and people moving from one job to another. I think there are some generational issues here. My father spent 40 years in the same job, apart from Army service, from the age of 15 until he was 60. The old pattern of employment in which you left school and expected to be in the same career until you retired is one that those of us of a certain age still cling to, but our children by and large do not expect to do so. The levels of turnover in the younger levels of the Civil Service are higher than in the older levels of the Civil Service, so there are certain generational issues here. Our younger generation is more attuned to the idea that you do not have a single career pattern or job pattern for life, and they are prepared to move. That is certainly the Government’s hope.

In discussing Amendment 11, it is almost unavoidable that I trespass on the amendments that will follow because the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, has already mentioned the Delegated Powers Committee’s report. We have welcomed it and recognise that the sunset and sunrise clauses are open to question. We hope that the three-year time limit that the two government amendments in the next group will introduce will go a long way towards meeting the points raised by the committee about the power to revive Clause 2 by order. It seems to us that that is a reasonable response to the Delegated Powers Committee’s report.

As with much of the Bill, this is a question of how we ensure that we come to a satisfactory and stable settlement on the new compensation scheme by agreement as far as possible with the unions, but avoiding litigation that would challenge the new scheme. It is our hope and intention that Clause 3 would not have to be used for a further revival of the Bill at any point, but it is there to ensure that we have the necessary guarantees. I have already explained to noble Lords opposite what our hope and intention is when this Bill receives Royal Assent, so we hope that much of the Bill will thus be superseded. I hope that when we move on to the next group of amendments the noble Lord will recognise that the Government have moved some way towards recognising the concerns which the Delegated Powers Committee expressed and which this amendment seeks to address.