Old Palace Yard
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble
The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)
My Lords, I recognise what the noble Lord has said. I should say that the political oversight group comprises Mr Speaker and the Lord Speaker, so we already have substantial weight on the parliamentary side. The initial concept design work is being undertaken by a consortium of engineers and architects, and we hope it will be finished by the end of the year. It will then need to go out for consultation to the statutory authorities and local residents, and implementation would be drawn up thereafter.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, if my memory serves me correctly, I first saw the plans for this that the noble Lord mentioned when I was on the Finance Committee, five years ago. These plans have been thought about for five years, mainly because of the huge security risk at the front of this building, which is still not being addressed. What is the noble Lord’s estimate for the timetable for this work being undertaken? Last time I asked, I was told that it was down to Westminster City Council; well, at least we have a Labour council now, so maybe progress will be made.
The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)
My Lords, Westminster City Council and Parliament are equal partners in this, alongside the Mayor of London’s Walking and Cycling Commissioner and the Deputy Mayor for Transport. This particular scheme has been under development since 2021, although I know there have been previous ones, and the commissions of both Houses approved us finding a way forward with it.
Parliamentary Estate: Traffic Marshals
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble
The Senior Deputy Speaker
My Lords, as I said, this is a bicameral health and safety matter and is the responsibility of the two clerks, but I certainly see no difficulty if the Finance Committee wishes to look into the contract and all matters relating to that. I have not spoken to the Finance Committee, as this is an immediate question, but I see no difficulty in so doing. On the issue of recesses, I should say that, for instance, from 22 December to 2 January, when traffic was very low, there were no traffic marshals on the estate. But there are some recesses when there is heavy construction traffic, and therefore it is very important that Strategic Estates looks at each part of the year, each recess, to see what is needed to ensure health and safety on the estate.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I welcome the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Hayward. I think it is more appropriate for a committee to look into these matters, rather than them being discussed in the House in this way. An important element of this that we often omit is that there is also a requirement to have proper risk assessments, in which not just Peers and MPs but the people who work on the estate, particularly trade unions and their representatives, should be involved. Their health and safety is much more of a priority and there is actually a statutory duty for them, so I hope we can be reassured that there will be an inclusive approach to this and that the voice of the workers is not forgotten.
The Senior Deputy Speaker
My Lords, the Parliamentary Safety Assurance Board and the Logistics Steering Group—both boards of officials of both Houses—gave approval to this additional mitigation. This is in the context of speed bumps, zebra crossings, traffic calming signs and, wherever possible, traffic/pedestrian segregation. I should also say, perhaps for some sceptics, that in the last year there were eight reported near misses, which I think we should all be very aware of, on a busy Parliamentary Estate with not only us as Members but members of staff and visitors.
Restoration and Renewal Programme Board
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble(1 year, 2 months ago)
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The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, has made some sound points, and I am certainly intrigued. I obviously saw paragraph 12. I will make inquiries as to the reference that candidates
“were required to provide written declarations regarding past political activity”.
I am assuming that this is a normal course of events with appointments, but the noble Lord makes an interesting point.
Dr Dix has clearly been appointed because of her considerable experience in very large management scenarios, of which this will be almost unique in its complexity. It is absolutely important that we get the right people on the programme board to assist us.
I also note the point about the appointment being for three years. It is usual to have a three-year term with a possible extension for a further three years, as the noble Lord noted. Clearly, this will be a very long project, and we will have to think not only about retaining collective memory but about fresh experience.
The noble Lord made another important point that all of us responsible in this generation need to reflect on. It is very clear that we have this great responsibility and need to do the right thing for this building, not just for those of us in this Chamber but for many people in this country and beyond who see it as iconic of values that are sadly diminishing in many parts of the world. I will take those points on board.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I thought I would take this opportunity to remind noble Lords that the delivery authority’s annual progress report will be subject to debate in Grand Committee. I hope many people will sign up to it because, as the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, commented, this building is not simply about facilities for noble Lords and MPs; it represents this country’s values globally as well as domestically.
The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)
I am remiss. The noble Lord is correct. I am delighted that his name is on the speakers’ list. The debate will be at 4.15 pm on 18 October in the Moses Room. I warmly welcome Members to come to capacity, not only to listen but to contribute, because we clearly have a shared interest in this extraordinary building.
Gambling: Fixed-odds Betting Terminals
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, as regards money laundering, the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 places a duty on gambling operators to be alert to money laundering attempts and to report such attempts to the National Crime Agency. The Government expect all gambling operators to ensure that their anti-money laundering procedures are consistently and effectively applied to minimise risk and maintain good controls. On the point of the size of the stakes, the new measures will require those accessing stakes over £50 to use account-based play or to load cash over the counter. The Responsible Gambling Trust has said that in its view it is,
“overtly naïve and massively premature”,
to suggest that reducing the maximum stake size would help to reduce problem gambling.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, in a casino you will have at least a croupier, an overseer and a manager, all monitoring the behaviour of a gambler, yet on most high streets you can have a small shop with two of these machines and one person behind a screen. Does the Minister seriously believe that the assurances given by the bookmakers can be met as regards monitoring problem gambling?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, clearly, we will see how those measures work. We very much hope that they will work, and we are looking to the gambling industry to ensure that it co-operates on this. Of course, as I said before, the measures require all players of FOBTs to be presented with a choice to set time and money, which we think is an important stage in ensuring a redress of this problem.
Deregulation Bill
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble(9 years, 9 months ago)
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Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I wish to address three areas of concern regarding the noble Lord’s proposals: the impact on the current consultations; the impact on public confidence; and the impact on the National Lottery. We exchanged views on these issues in Committee but I want to reiterate some of the concerns.
The current DCMS consultation closes on 4 March. At the same time, the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee is separately investigating society lottery regulation and should report its findings fairly shortly. We have argued for a detailed study of the proposals and their consequences.
I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Mancroft, says, but it is not just the National Lottery that may have concerns. Smaller lotteries and other charities have raised concerns that they may be squeezed by large society lotteries, which could expand and push the smaller ones to one side. Certainly, we on this side of the House would want to discuss the implications of that in detail before we consider any changes. Changes to this sector must be proportionate and evidence-based. We must not risk negatively impacting on the perception of charities—and, in turn, on the levels of public trust and confidence.
It is difficult to come to any conclusion on whether to substantially increase the sizes of prizes, of the individual draw or of annual proceeds caps as there is insufficient information available on this market. Without understanding how many lotteries are hitting the prize limits, the individual draw or the annual caps, and which would therefore benefit from being able to sell more tickets with higher prizes, I do not think that we can say that there is sufficient evidence for a change in policy.
There is a strong case for making more information available—certainly for increasing the data available on each society lottery’s ticket breakdown. We would like to see the Gambling Commission maintain up-to-date and publicly available data tables that show the proportion each lottery divides between good causes, prizes and expenses. It is fundamental to public confidence that the people who buy tickets understand the choices that they make. What are they supporting? How much of the money that they contribute will go to a good cause? That really is important.
I have also raised before, in the Chamber and in Committee, concerns over lottery operators, and in particular the loophole exploited by the Health Lottery. It is supposedly made up of 51 separate companies, yet they have the same three directors, the same office and the same branding. In effect, it operates as an alternative to the National Lottery. I do not think we can disregard concerns about the National Lottery. We do not fully understand the consequences. If we deregulate this market and other people come in, we are looking at a serious potential threat to the National Lottery.
The National Lottery was established on a monopoly basis for a very good reason: to balance people’s desire that the money goes to a good cause with the effect of gambling. There is no doubt that people participate in a lottery because they want to win; it is not simply about giving money to a good cause. From the way the Health Lottery and other operators market themselves, we can see that if we deregulate without properly considering all the consequences, we could have new entrants to the market. The market might grow, but it could certainly be distorted. I have mentioned this before: we could have companies such as Tesco, which has the infrastructure to mount a lottery, becoming a lottery operator, and, no doubt, giving 20% of its money to good causes—but we still do not understand how that could impact on the National Lottery.
As we have heard in previous debates, the National Lottery is not just about great big amounts of money going to big exercises. A huge amount of money—80%—goes in small amounts to local causes, which would not otherwise have been able to raise the money themselves. It has made a huge impact on our society, and we should not risk it without fully understanding the consequences.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for tabling these amendments. He is certainly tenacious in these matters.
The amendments seek to remove or relax regulations governing the amounts that society lotteries can raise and the level of prizes they can offer. The effect of the amendments together would be to allow society lotteries to offer jackpots of up to £5 million per draw and to hold as many draws as they wish. Our concern is that this could put society lotteries in direct competition with the National Lottery, and this might present a serious risk to the good causes funded by the National Lottery. The best way of raising funds is through encouraging people to play by offering them the life-changing prizes that are possible only through mass participation in a single national lottery. Indeed, the lottery was set up in 1994 to do just that.
As the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, rightly suggested, the National Lottery has been an enormous success, raising more than £32 billion for good causes in its 20 years of existence. It has funded everything from very large-scale national projects to thousands upon thousands of small-scale local groups, and this has had a truly transformative effect across the United Kingdom.
Society lotteries have also been very successful at raising funds for good causes and they have grown significantly in recent years. We welcome that success and are clear that they are part of a wider good-cause landscape. However, we cannot let their success be at the expense of the National Lottery.
Even if all the amendments are not taken together, it is unclear what effect making changes to individual limits will have. The limits taken as a package have so far allowed society lotteries to flourish while maintaining the success of the National Lottery. If we wish to change these limits, either singly or as a package, it must surely be done on the basis of evidence and with a clear understanding of how any changes will impact on society lotteries, both large and small, as well as on the National Lottery.
The Government agree with my noble friend that it is now time to consider these limits. That is why we are currently consulting through a call for evidence, asking for views on how we can ensure that society lotteries continue to flourish alongside the National Lottery. In addition, as has been mentioned, the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee is currently investigating society lotteries and will be considering whether their current limits are appropriate.
We are currently gathering the evidence that will highlight whether any reforms are needed, and I believe that it would be unwise to make any changes now without waiting for that evidence. The Government expect to have it after the call for evidence closes on 4 March. Once we have this evidence, any reforms to monetary amounts or percentages can be made through secondary legislation. Therefore, I am confident that the Government could move to make changes if, indeed, it was decided that this was the right and sensible course of action. For those reasons, I ask my noble friend to withdraw his amendment.
Libraries: Funding
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, my noble friend rightly highlights the very important role in our national life that libraries perform. As I say, libraries are changing and innovating. For instance, there is an enormous increase in lending on the e-lending side—from a smallish base, yes; but there has been a 125% increase over the past year.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, the one thing that the Minister did not mention is that the Government have a statutory duty under the libraries Act to ensure that services are maintained—that there are library services. What is the Minister doing to ensure that that obligation is met?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right: under the Public Libraries and Museums Act 1964 there is a duty on the Secretary of State—and, indeed, there are a number of situations where the Secretary of State is taking an interest in what is happening in those local authorities.
Deregulation Bill
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble(10 years ago)
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Lord Collins of Highbury
I do not accept what the noble Lord says because that lottery has exploited a loophole which I had hoped that the Government would be able to close. I am not suggesting for one moment that, in the dodgy sense, there is hidden money but only 20% of the money raised by that lottery goes to good causes. That may be seen to be a reasonable return, but it is advertised on Mr Desmond’s channels and in his newspapers, it is competing with the National Lottery and people think that it is a national lottery. It is even called a “national lottery”, which I think is in breach.
Furthermore, if that company can do it, what if Tesco suddenly decides, “This is a market we need to expand into. It’s a worthy cause. We can say to our customers that we’ve the infrastructure and the stores”? I believe that this is why we need to exercise caution. We have a model that has worked. We need to support local societies, even small societies, in terms of enabling them to raise money, and that includes local lotteries. I do not believe that when people buy those tickets they are necessarily thinking, “I need to win £4 million”, but we know the impact and the dream of the National Lottery, which is why it is so important to regulate the area. I am sorry to have banged on a bit on this, but there is a principle here that is worth defending and protecting. If we move forward in any step to deregulate that, we need to understand fully the consequences for the good causes.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his amendment and noble Lords for the lively debate that has followed. The effect of this amendment would be to allow society lotteries to offer jackpots of up to £5 million per draw and to hold as many draws as they wish. I know that my noble friend disagrees with this but we do think that this may—and I use the word “may”—present a serious risk to the good causes funded by the National Lottery. We believe that the best way of raising funds is through encouraging people to play by offering them the life-changing prizes possible only through mass participation in a single national lottery.
As the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, has said, in the past 10 days I have answered two Questions on the Olympics and the importance of the National Lottery. I was asked about the dangers if National Lottery proceeds were to reduce and the impact that that would have on the Olympics. Indeed, it was borne out into the many other aspects of the National Lottery. I am sure that we all agree that the National Lottery has been an extraordinary success, raising over £32 billion for good causes in its 20 years of existence. It has funded everything from large-scale national projects to thousands of small-scale local groups and has had a transformative effect across the whole of the United Kingdom.
It is appropriate today to refer to what the Heritage Lottery Fund has been doing. It has awarded more than £12 million to enable the National Museum of the Royal Navy to turn HMS “Caroline” into a visitor attraction in time for the centenary commemorations of the Battle of Jutland. At the other end of the scale, the Heritage Lottery Fund also awarded more than £5 million to more than 700 projects through its First World War: Then and Now community grants programme.
It is this scale and reach that makes the National Lottery so unique. Ultimately, a total of over £60 million was given to more than 1,000 First World War centenary projects, covering nearly three-quarters of constituencies across the United Kingdom. This is only a fraction of the funding distributed by the National Lottery each year. The Government believe that allowing the sort of direct competition that could result from this amendment goes against the very spirit of the National Lottery. My noble friend makes clear that he does not believe that it puts this at risk, but there are others who feel that it may.
I want to refer to what the noble Lord, Lord Low of Dalston, said about society lotteries. They are undoubtedly very successful at raising funds for good causes and have grown significantly in recent years. We very much welcome that success but we are clear that they are part of a wider good cause landscape and, again, we would not want that to be at the expense of the National Lottery.
Ratification of the Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My noble friend, as ever, makes a compelling point. However, I am afraid I am not a magician and I cannot will the parliamentary time. During this Session, we have undertaken a lot of very important work in the national interest, which is what your Lordships’ House does. I was looking at the recess weeks—they have been the same for the past three Sessions.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, the moral case for adopting this legislation is unanswerable. As we have heard, it is not really credible to say that this is about parliamentary time. I have heard what the Minister has said. Will he give a personal commitment that he will do what he can to ensure that this measure is included in the Queen’s Speech?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
I am afraid that really is rather above my pay grade. I understand entirely what the noble Lord is saying. We would ideally like this to be put on the statute book but we are not in a position to do that at the moment. What is important in practical terms is that our Armed Forces are very conscious of the protocol and the convention, which is why they adhere to what is intended. I have some very interesting details on what we have been undertaking in Afghanistan, for instance, where we very much adhere to the requirements of the convention.
Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I am very pleased to associate myself with this amendment. I hope that my new alliance with the noble Viscount will produce positive results tonight. Perhaps it is a sign of things to come and we can co-operate on other issues.
What the noble Lord said reminded me that, in the Chinese zodiac, I am in fact a horse. However, that does not mean that I support the amendment simply from a vested interest point of view. Many people have placed a bet on a horserace at one time or another, but I suspect that few realise that racing is the second largest sporting employer, supporting a predominantly rural industry that makes a significant contribution to the UK economy.
As we have heard, the purpose of the amendment is to capture the revenue that should be paid, as Parliament has already determined, from all betting operators that take online and telephone bets on racing in Britain, wherever they are located. I pay tribute to my honourable friend Clive Efford in the other place, who has consistently raised this issue. The change, as we have heard, could be worth up to £20 million a year to British horseracing, and would undoubtedly lead to a healthier sport, and to more investment, growth and jobs.
Too often, people focus just on the prize money and do not see the work of the board and the training, education and employment initiatives that the levy supports, year in and year out. Nor do they see the broader picture of how the industry has a direct link to building sustainable rural economies. Why should offshore betting operators and those in betting shops pay the full levy while others who are based overseas and do not have a voluntary agreement pay nothing?
In Committee, we heard the argument that any reform of the levy to capture revenues under a point of consumption licensing regime would constitute state aid. As the noble Viscount pointed out, that interpretation is not accepted by the British horseracing industry—and nor, following the ruling of the European Commission, is it one that we need to accept. The French raised the issue and we have had a decision on it.
This sets a precedent that I understand is being reviewed by the department’s lawyers. Clearly it is better that we should rely on new legislation rather than just have another round of disputes following messy court cases. I agree with the comment that in the long term, the Government may want to consider a more modern and commercial framework for the levy. That is something that I know the industry would support. However, with the best will in the world, the sport will be waiting several more years for that, all the while losing out on a vital source of income. Action has long been required and Ministers must not simply allow this once-in-a-Parliament opportunity for primary legislation to pass.
Clearly, there is a strong argument for further consultation and assessment of the implications of the European Commission’s warning on state aid. However, I would ask the Minister to begin consultation on levy reform as soon as possible and to include all options, particularly the option for a “horseracing right”. As the noble Viscount said, the amendment is about the reserve power to allow that to happen, giving the Government the opportunity to consult the Commission and, if that route of action is considered the right one, the power to act. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, my noble friend’s amendment seeks to give the Secretary of State reserved power to extend liability to pay the horserace betting levy to offshore remote gambling operators. We have had some useful discussions about the future of the levy at all stages of the Bill, including some particularly interesting ones in Committee. They have been extremely valuable and I want to reassure your Lordships that the Government have been listening. I am grateful to all noble Lords for the constructive discussions we have had.
We agree with the view that while we still have a statutory levy, it should be fairly applied. Furthermore, we are persuaded that including a clause about extending the levy to offshore remote operators is fully in keeping with the context and purpose of the Bill. We will therefore bring forward a government amendment at Third Reading which will remedy your Lordships’ concerns about ensuring a level playing field between onshore and offshore betting operators in terms of the levy. With the consent of the House, this amendment will give the Secretary of State power to use secondary legislation to secure extension of the levy to offshore remote operators. I shall ensure that all noble Lords who have expressed an interest in this matter during the Bill’s passage are invited to a briefing on the detail of the amendment before Third Reading. Bringing forward a government amendment will complement the work which, as I mentioned to your Lordships, is already under way to seek clarity on the state aid issues from the European Commission. The Government will consult on implementing an extension before any secondary legislation is brought before Parliament.
The Government want British racing to continue to thrive. I know from my own experience just how important racing is to so many in the countryside and of course in all communities—not only its economic impact but the pleasure it gives to so many millions of people. Extending the levy to offshore remote operators will help achieve the objective we all share. I want to say particularly to the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, that bringing forward a government amendment about extending the levy in the way that I have described does not of course close down options for wider levy reform or replacement. This is very much work in progress.
The Government have committed to bringing forward an amendment at Third Reading which will achieve the outcomes being sought tonight. Consequently, I ask my noble friend whether he will withdraw his amendment.
Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble(10 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Collins of Highbury
My Lords, I will preface my remarks by repeating what my noble friend said in an earlier discussion, which is that the answer to all questions is more research. That is basically what this amendment is saying.
I will be really brief. It is widely believed among the public and people in public health and gambling regulation that online gambling represents the greatest challenge to be faced in the next few years in the prevention of problem gambling. As we heard earlier, problem gambling is often how you get started, how you become addicted—it is not necessarily the money; it is the addictive nature of the gaming system.
Of course, nowadays online gambling is not a social activity. It is not even about being in your own home; you are on the tube. When I am travelling on the tube I am struck by the number of people playing a certain game on their system. That is particularly true of young people but I confess that even I have the app on my iPad: Candy Crush Saga. There was a really interesting article in the paper last week by Mark Griffiths, director of the International Gaming Research Unit at Nottingham Trent University, who described it as,
“a bit like chocolate. You say you’ll just have one chunk, and you end up having the whole lot. So you say I’ll just play for 15 minutes, and you end up still there four or five hours later”.
Unbelievably, Candy Crush Saga has been downloaded 500 million times. Although it is possible to play this game for free, 40% of players pay for add-ons. As Mark Griffiths said, there is an overlap between online games that allow players to spend money on virtual accessories, or to access higher levels, and gambling. He said:
“It’s a psychological masterstroke that people pay money to buy virtual items. The next step is for gambling firms to say, maybe you could win back some of the money you’re spending”.
That is the hook, the encouragement, and it is young people who are doing this. They are doing it on the move on their mobile phones—God knows what their phone bills are like. Mark Griffiths also said:
“Children who play these free games are more likely to gamble and more likely to develop problem gambling behaviours. These are gateway activities that can lead people down the gambling road. When you start winning, you start thinking that if I was playing with real money I could be doing quite well”.
I tend to share his view that there is nothing wrong with kids playing gambling-type games. I am not in favour of legislating or banning things all the time but we must accompany the use of these games with education. We must be much more aware of the consequences, and certainly children need to be much more aware of them.
Something that struck me on daytime television—which I do not watch a lot but occasionally I do—is the constant advertising by bingo companies. Bingo is no longer a social activity. It was something that people went to do once a week to meet people. Now they are being encouraged to do it in their own home in isolation and, what is worse, they are being told: “Have £10 or £20 free”. Actually, nothing is free; they have to lodge £30 or £40 to get that £10.
I would like the Minister to address this issue. Surely we need to better understand how these games interact with gambling. I urge him to look into this issue in more detail. I beg to move.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his amendment and indeed for raising the emerging area of social gaming. The Government fully understand and share the concern about the possible use of social media by gambling operators to attract new players to real-money gambling by offering them “free to play” gambling-like activities on sites such as Facebook. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, expressed particular concern for young people, and the Government also have concerns about the possible impact on underage users of social media who may become habituated to gambling-like activities and may start to pay, in effect, for more time—the so-called premium social gaming business model—or be tempted into real-money gambling as soon as they are able.
The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport already has the power to conduct such a review and the Gambling Commission has already started the process. It has commissioned and published a review of what was known of the potential risks from social gambling on social media and has been working with the Responsible Gambling Strategy Board and the providers of social gaming, some of which are licensed gambling operators, to analyse the data on players and assess the potential impact in relation to problem gambling-type risks. This approach should help us to decide whether there are elements of social gaming that need to be addressed by either the Government or the regulator. We believe that to legislate on this issue at this stage would be premature.
However, the Bill will enable the Gambling Commission and/or the Secretary of State to impose any improved protection measures on all overseas operators that wish to engage with British consumers. I hope that the Committee will understand that work has already started on some of this process and we await more reporting on it. For those reasons, I hope that the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw his amendment.
Libraries: Closures
Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Lord Gardiner of Kimble
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
I am very keen on rural rides. The Hive in Worcester, as the right reverend Prelate has mentioned, is a new library and history centre, and the first ever joint public and academic library in the country. I could go through the very long list of success stories. I know that there are communities worried about their public library provision but there are good stories to be told in Hackney, Lewisham, Newton Abbot, Clapham, Oldham, Northumberland—I could go on.
Lord Collins of Highbury
My Lords, a comprehensive library service is about more than simply the supply of books. It is about encouraging the joy of reading; it is about education. I fear that some of the noises that we have heard from local government simply about alternative provision do not meet the standard, let alone the number, of libraries that my noble friend Lady Bakewell has referred to. What is the Minister’s view about the standards for a library service that meets that need for encouraging reading?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, the Government and the department have continued to fund the Reading Agency and the Book Trust, two very important charities in that sector; indeed, the Book Trust is involved with book-giving for children. One of the key points that I identified on my visit to these libraries is that we are going through a technological revolution in terms of libraries. The number of e-books that are loaned has risen in two years from 100,000 to nearly 600,000. We are going to have to deal with those new technologies and how we encourage young people and the community to be involved. Among the key pilot schemes are the 22 schemes for automatically joining primary schoolchildren—I am told that in Norfolk they will be joined at birth—and the children will encourage their parents to come to the libraries as well.