Middle East

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Janke

Tuesday 29th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I agree. In the discussions in Doha, there is a process that we are giving support to that we hope will result in the return of hostages, which is the mechanism to opening broader peace talks. I think the noble Lord is absolutely right. On access, when I asked him a similar question about other routes, including sea and air, I recall him saying that they can never make up for the huge amount that is required and the border crossings required. He and I have worked well together in the past, and I will certainly continue to take his advice. He is absolutely right.

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s Statement and his support for UNRWA. The United Nations has described what is happening in north Gaza as showing a blatant disregard for humanity and the rule of war. Given that Gaza and the West Bank are illegally occupied territories, I welcome the Government’s view that UNRWA should be allowed to continue. However, should the Israelis seek to implement their ban on UNRWA—which would be a further catastrophe for the Palestinians, on top of many already—what action will the UK Government take to make sure that this does not happen and that the rules of war prevail?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I repeat what I have said before. UNRWA is operating on a UN mandate, agreed by the Security Council. If the Israelis insist on implementing that ban, the appropriate action will be to work with our allies back at the Security Council.

Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Janke

Committee stage
Tuesday 14th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

My Lords, I also belatedly declare my interest as a beneficiary of the Local Government Pension Scheme.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, suggests that we are using the Bill to address a problem that has not happened, which prompts me to say that there are genuine concerns that it might happen. I come back to the point that I made in one of the interventions: the concern that we all have about this Bill is that its scope goes well beyond the concerns and the remedy in the manifesto. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, and my noble friend are quite right to point out the litigation risks.

My noble friend also raised what I have repeatedly said: that this legislation can have a chilling effect that we do not want. We have a Government making all kinds of guidance. On the local government pension funds, we have specific regulations. All pension funds have a fiduciary duty. Noble Lords have raised the point about the duties of people responsible for making these decisions. The Bill will make those duties even more complex. When things become even more complex, people avoid doing the right thing. That is one of the important considerations.

I want to repeat what my noble friend Lord Davies mentioned. Talking as an old-fashioned trade unionist, I say that members’ pensions and pension funds are their deferred wages, yet there is an idea that somehow those do not belong to them and are not their responsibility. Most of the members primarily want those funds protected for their future security. They do not want political and moral considerations to play a part. They want them to be covered by the points that my noble friend Lady Drake has mentioned. No matter what is said by the noble Baronesses, Lady Altmann and Lady Noakes, this could impact the ability of those responsible for managing these funds to make decisions that take into account risk and other considerations to protect those funds. That comes from the potential for them to be challenged.

I have read some of the briefings on this. The ESG point is quite an important one. Many funds and investment pools in local government pension schemes work individually and collectively to improve corporate behaviour and long-term value of the funds, including through engagement in shareholder action at their AGMs. This is reflected in the statutory guidance that my noble friends have been referring to about administrating authorities formulating a policy to deal with their stewardship responsibilities. It is likely that engagement of this type would be undermined by the Bill.

I again come back to the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes. When seeking to address behaviours by a company that involve significant financial, legal and reputational risk, there are many occasions when this will have geographical implications. We have seen, for example, the briefings on the use of tax havens by companies and the use of surveillance equipment. We have heard of the Uighur internment camps where bonded labour is encouraged by public authorities, particularly the kafala system. We will come on to another group on employment law, but the definition of the exceptions is very narrowly drawn in this Schedule. The Bill is unlikely to allow decision-makers to consider those behaviours.

It is unclear whether decision-makers in the LGPS could be accountable for screening selection decisions made by global equity funds where country-specific risks have been considered. That is an important point. My noble friend Lord Davies is absolutely right. As a trade unionist all my working life, I have seen the responsibilities of those who look after these pension funds. They should be common throughout. Why are we differentiating between local government workers and something beyond local government workers? Why should we have these different standards? It is really important that everyone who takes that responsibility of oversight, as a trustee or in management of the schemes, has those same principles of fiduciary duty and taking risks into account.