North Korea

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 27th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is a straightforward fact that the United States has made it clear that it is not seeking military action. It is installing a defensive missile system and working with allies in the area such as South Korea. What came across very strongly in the announcement by the Secretary of State in America yesterday is that the United States is seeking a peaceful resolution. It made it clear that it wants to bring North Korea to its senses, not to its knees.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I welcome the Minister’s response about the Security Council, but will she reassure us that when the Foreign Secretary is in New York, he will be in communication with his counterpart in the United States to ensure that these two great allies act in concert to ensure effective sanctions?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Yes, my Lords: in New York but also on a more regular basis.

India: Extremism

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 24th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we are indeed clear friends of India. The UK-India trade relationship is flourishing. The two Prime Ministers agreed that, when the UK leaves the European Union, they will make it a priority for both countries to build the closest possible commercial and economic relationship—but our friendship also goes to the development of human rights.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I am grateful for that commitment by the Minister, because many of us will be very concerned that, as a consequence of Brexit, the focus of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office will be on trade and economic development alone. Will she repeat, again, that there can never be a trade-off between economic trade and human rights and that we will remain committed to raising our concerns with President Modi at every opportunity, because the recorded level of violence against minorities has increased and we must raise it with the Government?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Prime Minister referred to reports of violent offences when she visited India in the first bilateral overseas visit after she became Prime Minister last summer to show the importance that we ascribe to our relations with India. The reports have also been raised more recently by my honourable friend the Minister for Asia when an Indian Minister visited this country. So we will continue to raise those issues. It is for the benefit of both countries that we develop our trade relationship—but, as I mentioned earlier, it is our firm belief that good relations and strong human rights are the underpinning for successful economic development.

Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 6th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, recently I met a representative of the Youth Parliament and discussed issues around the summit. I assure my noble friend that the important point she has made will indeed be taken into consideration. I am already holding a series of meetings, as are members of the Commonwealth team now based in the Cabinet Office.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, one important consideration about trade which is often ignored is the need to ensure that we advocate strong minimum standards and support the International Labour Organization. I hope that the noble Baroness will be able to reassure the House that when we engage civil society in CHOGM, we will also include trade unions and the international trade union movement so that we can advocate strong labour standards.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Yes, my Lords. Yesterday I had the privilege of being able to meet Owen Tudor, who heads the TUC’s international relations office, to discuss how his agenda and the decisions that might be made in June by TUC organisations can feed into the summit process.

Syria: Chemical Weapons

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 5th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Like the noble Baroness, I deplore events that cause such suffering. She is right to point to the action by the international community over the years to try to ensure that such vile use of chemical weapons cannot happen. It is essential that we work together to prevent these events. At 3 pm British time I understand that the debate at the United Nations should have started—I cannot confirm that because I have been here and so unable to see it. We will have to wait to see the decisions on what actions to take. I entirely agree with the noble Baroness that there must be a thorough and credible investigation.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the key point that the Foreign Secretary made was that all the evidence points to the Assad regime. We have also heard from the Prime Minister, who called for the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to conduct an investigation. Of course, it has been gathering evidence for some time on the use of chemical weapons in Syria. I welcome the Government’s intention to raise the matter at the Security Council—but, as the Minister has told the House on many occasions, it is sometimes difficult to reach a consensus in the Security Council. Can she tell us what the Government will do if there is a failure to reach consensus? Will we take it up in the full UN General Assembly? The most important point—I know she shares this view—is that the people responsible must understand that they will be held fully accountable.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said a short while ago in Brussels:

“I would like to see those culpable pay a price”.


I do not want to predict the result of today’s debate. It is predicted not to conclude until around 6 pm or 7 pm. It is clear that we have to try to ensure that nobody will vote against the resolution. In the past, Russia and China have done so. I hope that they will think very carefully today before they take any action other than to support the resolution before the United Nations.

Balfour Declaration

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 3rd April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

First, my Lords, I send my good wishes to the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, and wish her a strong and full recovery. The Balfour Declaration was an historic statement and one for which the United Kingdom has no intention to apologise. We are focused on encouraging the Israelis and Palestinians to take steps which bring them closer to peace. That is the whole thrust of government policy which has underwritten the work of this Government, the coalition Government, and the Labour Government before that. We continue to carry that work forward. With regard to recognition, perhaps in the future, of Palestine as an independent state, bilateral recognition does not deliver reality. We will make sure that we recognise a Palestinian state when we judge that it is in the best interests of peace and a lasting negotiated solution between Israel and the Palestinian Authorities to do so.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I associate myself with the remarks of the Minister about the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge. I also welcome the commitment again to the two-state solution, which the Opposition have supported historically. The most important thing we can achieve, 100 years after the Balfour Declaration, is to ensure that peace talks commence. Can the Minister tell us how she can put direct pressure on both parties to start talking to each other rather than firing rockets at each other?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, that point is extremely well made. I assure the noble Lord and the House that we are making our best efforts to encourage both sides to come to the table for discussions. When my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary visited Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, he made just those points. When I had discussions last week in New York with Nikki Haley, who is a member of the President’s Cabinet, I too made those points, and we agreed entirely that it is important that we all work together to get the interested parties to the table to talk, not fire weapons.

Gibraltar

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 3rd April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, on the first part of the noble Baroness’s Question, it is a matter of fact that Gibraltar and other overseas territories, and the Crown dependencies, were mentioned specifically in the White Paper, as they should be. The letter was not the occasion to convey that matter in addition, but I can assure the noble Baroness that we have engaged thoroughly with Gibraltar during all the processes so far. On other matters, I understand that the noble Baroness may be referring to a comment made by one of my noble friends. We still have free speech in this country; may that long continue.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, what the overwhelming number of people in Gibraltar recognised when they voted to remain was that, when Spain acceded to membership, this country negotiated an extremely good deal for very unique circumstances. The unhelpful remarks about gunboat diplomacy do not address the fundamental issue, which is not that the people of Gibraltar doubt Britain’s commitment to them to maintain their sovereignty, but that they doubt Britain’s ability to negotiate on their behalf the best deal economically. That is what they want to hear from this Government.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, they have heard that and they very much welcome it, as the Chief Minister has made clear. Since the referendum we have set up a system from the Department for Exiting the European Union and the FCO, whereby the overseas territories, including Gibraltar, can be best consulted. For Gibraltar there is a very special track that that particular negotiation follows, which is a joint negotiating committee set up by the Department for Exiting the European Union, chaired by Robin Walker, a Minister in that department, and attended by my right honourable friend Alan Duncan. We take extremely seriously the importance of negotiating the best outcome for the whole of the UK family. That includes Gibraltar.

Syria

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 20th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we certainly do not see the Assad regime as bringing benefits to the Syrian people. This is a regime which has been found by a series of independent United Nations reports to have used chemical weapons and committed war crimes against the Syrian people. The regime is currently denying humanitarian aid to 1.4 million Syrians living in siege-like conditions. The UN has found it responsible for bombing an aid convoy last September. It simply is not true to say that all armed opposition are terrorists. The opposition fighters in rural Damascus, for example, are not extremists, nor were the vast majority of fighters in eastern Aleppo. The UK provides political and practical support to the moderate opposition. This has included communications and medical equipment, as well as equipment—as the House will understand—to protect against chemical weapons attacks. We do not provide weapons to anyone in Syria. The recipients of UK assistance are always rigorously and continually assessed to ensure that they are not involved in any extremist activity or human rights abuses.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, there is no doubt that all sides of the House will be united in seeking peace in Syria, particularly bringing all parties together, but that peace cannot happen without ensuring that the people responsible for war crimes are held to account. My own view and the strongly held view of the Opposition is that all sides have committed atrocities and no one should be able to act with impunity. What steps are we taking to support the UN General Assembly resolution on an accountability mechanism that will ensure that all those who have committed crimes against humanity are properly held to account?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord that as a member of the international community it is right that we hold to account all those who commit war crimes; that is, both Daesh and the regime, and any of the very extreme groups with which the UK does not have contact as such. Otherwise, there cannot be a long-term solution. Therefore, I can give the noble Lord an assurance that we give our full support to the United Nations, particularly this month of all months because we are chairing the Security Council. We call for all measures to be taken which ensure that the Security Council can move forward on this and avoid having anybody veto any decisions.

United States: Immigration Policy

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 27th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, with regard to visitors to this country, I can give the noble Baroness that assurance. With regard to the access of visitors to the United States, its guidance says that those same factors should not determine the decision that is made: the decision is made on an equality basis.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s comments, but can she reassure the House that on the executive order that we expect either this week or next week, the department will be prepared to offer proper advice immediately and the Foreign Secretary will not waste any time in seeking urgent clarification, unlike the last time?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary did seek urgent advice the last time. The difficulty was that there was some confusion in the United States’s systems, as was evident from the changing nature of its travel advice online. Therefore, early engagement by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in this country and by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister meant that we were able to get the earliest advice to British passport holders that they would not be adversely affected.

West Papua

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 21st February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we convey the view to the Indonesian Government that we wish to work with them in their stated objective of improving the condition of people in West Papua. With regard to abuses, it is the case that the Indonesian President is committed to addressing the problems in the region. The previous co-ordinating ministry for legal, political and security affairs established an investigative team to resolve past cases of human rights abuse. However, we remain concerned by the slow progress that has been made and we are encouraging the Indonesian Government to prioritise a swift resolution. The fact is that where human rights are recognised and protected, prosperity tends to follow.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister reiterated the point about exerting a more positive influence on the Indonesian Government, particularly with regard to religious freedom. What practical steps have the United Kingdom Government taken to ensure that religious freedom is able to be practised in West Papua, particularly in terms of the practical training of police and other civil servants to ensure that the words of the President are not only heard but fully implemented?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is of course important that we are able to talk as we do with the Indonesian Government about ensuring that security has to be maintained. It is a fact that Indonesia faces the threats of terrorism and instability that are around the region, not just in Indonesia, so we have to respect the action it needs to take on that. What we do is work with the Indonesian Government to ensure that there is support for their work both in Indonesia and at international level. That work is done through the FCO but also more broadly in government.

Iran: Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 2nd February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I have read newspaper reports of the appalling attempt to gain money from the family, which the noble Lord has just described, but they are newspaper reports—I personally do not have details of that. It is a fact that those who are dual nationals face significant problems if they are detained in Iran, because we do not have consular access to them. We can ask, but we cannot insist—although it does not stop us continuing to ask. As recently as this Tuesday, my honourable friend Tobias Ellwood met Mr Ratcliffe to update him on what happened when Tobias visited Tehran earlier in January. Officials met the family recently and Tobias also met the family when he was in Tehran. Those meetings will continue, because our only intent is to resolve this issue in a positive way for the family.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I appreciated what the Minister said in the Chamber last week in the debate that we had on this subject—I raised specific questions. I understand the Government’s commitment to do all they can in the circumstances, but the Minister said last week that we were awaiting the end of the judicial process before making any demands for Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s release. Can she reassure the House that when they are satisfied that the process has been concluded, we will immediately demand her release?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, one of our problems is in having information about the process itself, and when it has been resolved within the court system—in the debate, as the noble Lord will remember, I carefully declined to call it a judicial system and referred to it as a court system. As I said earlier, we are urgently seeking information on what further legal avenues may be available to Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe, and we will support the family through that process. The judiciary falls under the auspices of the Supreme Leader, and its shortcomings are evident: I choose my words very carefully, to be accurate. Those standing trial on political or politically-related charges are often denied proper access to a lawyer, which results in defendants lacking a proper defence during their trial. This is an appalling situation.

South Sudan

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 1st February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the August 2015 peace agreement indeed mandated the creation of a hybrid court for the most serious crimes, and we then urged and continue to urge the African Union to accelerate its implementation. I suspect that I shall raise these issues when I travel shortly to the region— during the Recess, I hasten to add, in case the Chief Whip is listening. I am fortunate enough to be travelling to Kenya, Uganda and Burundi and, in Uganda, I shall be able to see some of the generosity given by the Ugandan people to refugees—to those who have suffered in this conflict.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, may I return to that latter point? Obviously the displaced people from this terrible episode are spreading across the region—in particular to Uganda, where the Bidi Bidi camp now has 250,000 people. Can the Minister reassure the House that the Government will give practical support and advice to Uganda in these difficult circumstances?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Yes, my Lords, I can give that undertaking. We will continue to work with Uganda and the way in which it supports refugees. There are nearly a million now in Uganda—not all from South Sudan—but thousands are arriving every day. That has left Uganda sheltering the third highest number of refugees in the world.

Syria: President al-Assad

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 1st February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we are taking a lead in the constructive discussions for resolving what is an appalling situation across Syria—a situation where, at the last election, the only opposition opponent to Assad felt it necessary at the last moment to encourage everybody in the country to vote for Assad rather than himself as a candidate. Assad has shown that he is incapable of protecting his own people, but I agree with my noble friend that we should not dictate an outcome. What we are saying is that Assad has not proved that he can bring peace to the country. We are leading the way in the Syria Support Group of the United Nations in trying to ensure that there can be a position where the Syrian people decide the next steps. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said when he appeared before the committee of my noble friend Lord Howell, whom I am delighted to see today:

“I would hope that it would be possible to have a plebiscite or an election, properly supervised by the UN, in which all the 11 million displaced persons, including the 4 million who are now outside Syria, are fully entitled to vote”.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, we are a long way off the pathway to peace, but one principle—which I know the noble Baroness shares strongly—that we need to make clear in following that pathway is that there is no impunity and that people who are responsible for crimes against humanity are held responsible, come what may.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

That is absolutely right and we will continue to take forward work with the United Nations and our allies to find a way in which those who have committed appalling crimes can be brought to justice. In particular, we are continuing to invest money in providing a way in which robust evidence that would stand up in the case of prosecutions can be collected and stored—and I pay tribute to the brave people who are collecting that evidence.

Sudan

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 23rd January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The right reverend Prelate is right to raise these disturbing cases. We were pleased to hear about the release of the Reverend Kwa Shamal but remain very concerned about the fate of the three men who remain in detention charged with a number of crimes, including espionage and waging war against the Government. Together with our international partners, officials from our embassy in Khartoum regularly attend hearings. The next hearing is expected to be held on 29 January. It has been delayed. In addition, the UK embassy officials are in close contact with the lawyers representing the defendants. We will continue to monitor the case closely.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I return to the question of impunity. Despite the best efforts of many Governments, including our own, we know that there has been extraordinary violence and breaches of human rights. What are the Government doing to ensure that we monitor and report human rights abuses and violations? How can we bring the people responsible to justice?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we monitor human rights abuses through a wide range of sources, particularly with the NGOs which provide humanitarian aid across the region, and through the contacts that our own and other embassies have. This is a case where the international community must, and does, co-operate. However, as the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, pointed out, in some areas it is exceedingly difficult to get accurate information.

Israel and Palestine: Paris Peace Conference

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 19th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I do pay tribute to the way in which France has, under various Administrations, genuinely sought to take forward international discussions on a potential peace settlement—this was one more effort by France to do so. But unless the main protagonists are there to come to an agreement, there can be no resolution. That is the nub of the discussion today.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, in the light of the Foreign Secretary’s off-the-cuff remarks, I am not at all surprised that the Government were reluctant to send him to France. However, the Minister has today and yesterday reiterated the Government’s support for the two-state solution. Will she reassure the House that, when the Prime Minister visits President-elect Trump—very soon, as we hear—the issue of support for the two-state solution will be high on the agenda?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Indeed, as I have set out today, our position on the two-state solution has not changed. I have again listed the component parts of a lasting settlement, which I know all Members of this House want to achieve—that is, a lasting solution to a very difficult position across the Middle East and one that could be respected by all. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has a wonderfully dramatic way of making a point. It certainly gets attention.

Cyprus

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 20th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, this is, of course, a Cypriot-led process. I assure the noble Lord, as he wished me to, that we are willing to consider whatever arrangements the two sides leading this process can agree on to meet the security needs of a reunited Cyprus. We do not take a particular role for ourselves, except the one the noble Lord rightly stresses, which is our relationship with the United Nations and others involved in this process to bring it to a successful conclusion.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, key to these talks is the success of the two leaders in Cyprus. We have to give our full support to them, but as the noble Lord who asked the Question said it is ultimately for the people to decide. I hope that in the forthcoming period we put all our effort in supporting the two Cypriot leaders—the leaders of the two communities—and the last word must be with the people.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord. We not only stand ready to assist, but actively support any moves to achieve a settlement.

Syria: Aleppo

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 20th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I will address the two important issues raised by the noble Lord. With regard to no-fly zones, we believe that the priority is the protection of civilians in Syria. As I am sure he is aware, there are big challenges in any military option that need to be considered very carefully and in close consultation with our partners. That agreement is not forthcoming at present. The only real solution for peace and stability in Syria is a political transition to ensure that we have a stable Syria.

The noble Lord asked about the resettlement of 20,000 refugees, which this Government promised would take place during this Parliament. That is going ahead. We are keeping the pledge. I have direct information from individual authorities, including my own, about the care and attention they are paying to providing housing, medical support and education, as well as advice on access to employment.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s commitment to the United Nations and the continued financial support. I hope the Government will keep under review offering yet further assistance in the form of hardware and personnel. Of course, giving full support to the United Nations means that the evacuation is vital but protection is as important. The protection of transport needs to be ongoing. Will she reassure the House that the Government will continue to monitor the situation and that they understand that war crimes have been committed, as well as the importance of gathering evidence?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. I would stress that we keep in close contact with the United Nations to monitor the developing situation to see whether the aid we currently provide should be expanded or adjusted. To date, DfID has allocated £734 million to support vulnerable people inside Syria, including Aleppo. Funds have gone there. Indeed, just on 15 December the Prime Minister announced a further £20 million of practical support for those who are most vulnerable in Syria, including in Aleppo. Their protection is essential, both while they remain there but also when they are evacuated. With regard to pursuing justice for those who have suffered at the hands of those such as Daesh—and, indeed, Assad—I assure him that we are encouraging the international community to join with us in the campaign to bring Daesh to justice.

Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting 2018

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 5th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I find the Foreign Secretary great to work with, a great team leader, prepared to listen and give as good as you get. Ministerial team meetings are highly productive, and I shall certainly reflect on what my noble friend has said. For the sake of accuracy, I point out that I am Minister for the Commonwealth as an institution and for the Commonwealth countries in the Caribbean directly, but of course other of my honourable and right honourable colleagues in the Foreign Office have geographical responsibilities for individual countries. That is why we are able to engage so consistently and completely with all Commonwealth countries.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

In last Friday’s debate, the most reverend Primate spoke compellingly about the engagement of civil society in changing attitudes. Will the Minister undertake to repeat a round-table exercise about LGBT rights, similar to the one at the last CHOGM, particularly as so many countries in the Commonwealth criminalise LGBT people?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as I mentioned a moment ago, the agenda is agreed by consensus, but the noble Lord has raised a vital point. Having committed ourselves very closely to combating discrimination and violence against LGBT people throughout the Commonwealth, and having used every opportunity at the last CHOGM to highlight our belief that the Commonwealth must stand up for human rights, including LGBT ones, we are working out our plans to ensure that these important messages are delivered when we host CHOGM in 2018.

Nigeria

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 22nd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, our representatives in post—our ambassadors and high commissioners—work on a regional basis. In particular, we have a regional approach to security matters. My noble friend raises an important issue about the impact on Chad, because Lake Chad has been drying up, which has caused people to be displaced and further conflict. However, it is a matter also for ECOWAS to address.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s reference to supporting President Buhari’s attempts to meet different elements within the country, and to the £39 million for peace and reconciliation. I want to ask two other questions. What expertise is this country able to provide in building peace and reconciliation, in addition to the money? Will the Minister reassure the House that these funds will not be affected by any future review of DfID spending?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, although I cannot predict what the multilateral aid review will conclude or whether publication is expected before Christmas, I will say that DfID’s £39 million Nigeria Stability and Reconciliation Programme currently supports a range of initiatives across the country to reduce the conflicts and to build bridges between communities, including, as I mentioned briefly, the peace clubs. We are now in a position where more than 4,000 girls and nearly 3,000 boys take part, advocating in their respective communities for peaceful coexistence and contributing to the resolution of communal tensions. The young people can decide the future.

Syria and Iraq: Genocide

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 22nd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, following the launch by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary in September of the global campaign to bring Daesh to justice, we ensured that we had discussions with the other members of the Security Council—who were already aware of what was about to happen. We are making good progress in discussions across the United Nations on designing a system whereby evidence can be collected to bring Daesh to justice. Although I know that we have our differences with Russia over the way in which it has carried out some of its activities in Syria, I am hopeful that it may be in a position to support a process of bringing forward evidence in conjunction with the Government of Iraq—because it is Iraq led—so that the United Nations can then have a resolution before it which could be accepted by all.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I welcome what the Minister has said regarding the commission of inquiry. Just to amplify the last point, how are the Government building a consensus for that? I acknowledge the difficulty at the United Nations, but is not the first step surely to get wider support for that commission of inquiry?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I think that I must be clearer in my answer and differentiate between the commission of inquiry, which we fully support and which continues as it is, and the work that we will now undertake with the Government of Iraq to present a resolution to the United Nations which would focus on collecting an evidence base. That is a different process. Our diplomats both in the United Nations and around the world are working hard to achieve support for that, including with our allies in the United States.

United States: Diplomatic Relations

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 16th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My noble friend is absolutely right. As I am privileged to travel around the world for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office I see countries that do not have peaceful transitions, so I certainly celebrate in the way that my noble friend does.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, as one of the most important allies we have, is not the most important and effective relationship with the new President direct communications between the respective Heads of Government? When will she and the Prime Minister prioritise a meeting with President-elect Trump?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, when my right honourable friend the Prime Minister had a conversation on the telephone with Lord Trump—

Brexit: British Embassies in EU Countries

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My noble friend raises an essential point. Yesterday it was my honour to record a short video of congratulations to Lithuania to celebrate its 25 years of independence. We will continue our bilateral relations with the other 27 countries across Europe post-Brexit—and, of course, we are still within the European Union, and our relationships must remain cordial. It is important for all of us that they do.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, there is another side to the coin, not least that—because there was no contingency planning—a lot of effort is now going into the Brexit negotiations. The concentration of effort from the Foreign Office into that may jeopardise other vitally important work, including in the Middle East and Africa. What assurances can the Minister give that that work will not be diminished because of Brexit?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord has raised a crucial point. As I mentioned briefly in my first Answer, it is the duty of the FCO to reflect Her Majesty’s Government’s priorities across the world. The 2020 diplomatic initiative currently under way is an internal exercise looking carefully at the disposition and number of staff needed—both during negotiations on our exit from the EU and, subsequently, within the EU and around the world—to meet the exigencies of events as they arise.

Syria

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 13th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am aware that the noble Baroness and one or two other parliamentarians, against the direct advice of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, travelled to Syria. I put my trust in the evidence gathered by the independent UN commission of inquiry and other credible reporting, such as that by Human Rights Watch, which makes clear that the Assad regime bears overwhelming responsibility for this crisis. Indeed, his regime is responsible for between 85% and 90% of the deaths. We should not fall for the Assad regime’s spurious argument that it can protect minorities—it cannot. Assad’s actions have fuelled sectarian violence, and his regime is ultimately responsible for the deaths of about 400,000 civilians. He has shown that he is incapable of maintaining control of his country or of effectively countering the threat from Daesh and other extremists. So long as Assad is in power, the fighting will not end. The Syrian people do indeed deserve a more accountable, inclusive, representative form of governance—but it is one that Assad cannot offer.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that there must be a better way of influencing the Russian Government than demonstrations outside the Russian embassy? Has the Minister made an assessment of a proposal from the UN’s Syria envoy to personally escort 1,000 jihadist fighters out of eastern Aleppo? Would that not better address the issue of Russian behaviour in bombing eastern Aleppo than demonstrations outside the embassy?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, in this country we have a proud history of having the freedom to demonstrate peacefully on public property to express our views. I hope that that will continue. We have the great privilege here of being able to express views which are then recorded. That is not the case for many, and it is not the case for those in Syria. We should bear that in mind.

I will continue by answering the particular point about the offer by the UN special envoy. We welcome de Mistura’s ceaseless efforts to find ways to address the situation in Aleppo. His latest update did include the suggestion of escorting fighters from Aleppo; that was heartfelt. The prelude, however, would have to be a genuine ceasefire. That is what we are seeking, and there will be meetings this weekend to resume diplomatic exchanges.

Turkey: Judicial Personnel

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 7th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as the noble Lord is aware more than most, we are still a member of the European Union. We also have bilateral relationships with Turkey, which is demonstrated by the way in which our Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary and Minister for Europe have engaged with Turkey in these difficult times. Our view on the accession of Turkey to the EU remains the same. We are committed to supporting security and prosperity across Europe. That means that anybody who wishes to gain access to the European Union has to demonstrate that they are able to meet all the demands of opening and closing the relevant chapters. While we remain a member of the European Union, we have a say in that process.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, obviously, maintaining a strong collective international response is vital in this situation, bearing in mind Turkey’s strategic position in the fight against ISIS and other extremists. Can the Minister tell the House exactly how we are maintaining a collective response, not just with our friends in the EU but particularly within NATO and with the US?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to raise the point about the importance of Turkey within the security systems across the whole of Europe. It is a valued member of NATO, and I believe that it is the second largest contributor of troops to NATO forces. We maintain that relationship through our work from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and it is at as high a level as it ever has been. Turkey is a valued partner.

Yemen: Breaches of International Humanitarian Law

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 5th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, we had a debate in this Chamber on these matters in January, when I asked the Minister whether it was sufficient to leave these serious breaches in international humanitarian law to conversations with the Saudi Government. It now transpires, eight months later, that we have been under the misleading impression that the Government have been undertaking investigations and reaching evidence-based conclusions, when they have not. The conflict in Yemen is ongoing and the UK is still selling arms to the Saudis. Clearly, the time must be now for the UK Government to suspend arms sales so that there can be a proper investigation into these serious breaches of international humanitarian law.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as I mentioned a moment ago in repeating my honourable friend’s Answer, the UK Government do not carry out investigations in these circumstances. Those taking part in the incidents are better placed to report on them. I referred to the press statement put out by the joint incident assessment team, which makes clear its conclusions with regard to the eight incidents. I would be happy to make sure that a copy of it is available to the noble Lord by putting a copy in the Library, as other noble Lords may wish to see it. We have very carefully taken an overall view. Looking at the available evidence, it is clear to us that, given the guidance under the consolidated arms criteria and the EU criteria, the level has not been reached where those criteria have been breached. We therefore do not believe that we are in a position where any of the contracts awarded should be withdrawn.

European Union

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 4th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The right reverend Prelate is of course not only right but clearly has the complete agreement of this House. This country has proved throughout its history that it not only tolerates but welcomes those who come here to contribute to our society. I deplore attacks upon them.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness stressed the role of the Government in the negotiations, but she has failed to mention the role of this sovereign Parliament in that process. Will she indicate just how Parliament will be involved in the process of negotiations?

EU: British Nationals Resident Overseas

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 28th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, although I know that my noble friend asked that question in very good spirit, I am afraid that I cannot give him the good news that he would like. There is the question of acquired rights, which is a very complex legal matter and not straightforward. We would need to rely upon negotiations to give certainty to those who do, after all, need and deserve it.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to pick up on exactly that point. It is not only the markets that are extremely worried by the uncertainty. People’s lives are affected; people who have lived in this country for 20 years—like my husband, who woke up on Friday morning thinking that his country had rejected him. That creates a fear, and we need to ensure that we respond to that fear. There is another point: British people who live in mainland Spain in Gibraltar are going to be even more worried. We need clear guidance to ensure that people are not anxious and can get on with their lives and work.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I entirely agree with the noble lord and that will be the thrust of the work to be done by the unit being set up. I feel sure it will be at the forefront of the minds of those who carry out the negotiations later this autumn.

With regard to Gibraltar, my colleagues in the Foreign Office have of course been in contact throughout with the Gibraltarian Administration, and we have given every indication of full support for their sovereignty and that we will not let them down.

Commonwealth Countries and Overseas Territories: European Union

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as is constitutionally correct, and has been agreed by the Prime Minister at a Cabinet meeting—which I attended—when I speak from the Dispatch Box I speak for the whole Government.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I have worked with and represented workers in Gibraltar for a considerable time and experienced a closed border for nearly as many years. Is the Minister prepared to invite the Chief Minister of Gibraltar to this country to explain the serious consequences of leaving the EU, both—as the noble Lord said—for the workers and for its sovereignty?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, to be very quick, I can say that we have already done that. On 11 May, the Chief Minister of Gibraltar made a joint statement with the Foreign Secretary in which they agreed that,

“remaining in a reformed European Union would ensure both Gibraltar and the UK were stronger, safer and better off. It would give Gibraltar and Gibraltarians the best possible chance to continue building their remarkable success story”.

Syria: Air Drops

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 9th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for repeating the response to this morning’s Urgent Question. I am sure we all agree that the most important thing is to focus our attention on the plight of those 582,000 people—men, women and children—who have been denied access, some since 2012. The conditions in those areas must be absolutely appalling and dreadful—it is difficult to imagine—and it is important that we keep highlighting that.

The noble Baroness said—and I heard the Minister in the other place, the right honourable David Lidington, say—that this afternoon British officials will meet their ISSG counterparts to consider the response of the Assad regime to the UN request for access. There is no doubt that the best outcome is agreed land access. That is the most effective way to get support in there. But what will happen if the Syrian Government refuse permission or impose further unnecessary delays? Will we be able to persuade others that air drops are appropriate as a last resort? And what timeframe are we considering? As each day and each week go past, the conditions in these areas will become intolerable.

I heard the right honourable David Lidington say that Russia and Iran have the power to influence the situation. Apart from the discussions in the ISSG, what efforts are the Government making to put pressure on Russia and Iran to use that influence more appropriately? What can we do about that?

There is no doubt that political progress towards a settlement is made a great deal more difficult while Assad deliberately uses the denial of humanitarian aid as a political and military weapon. I know that the noble Baroness shares my view and I hope she will confirm that there will be no hiding place for individuals who flagrantly breach international humanitarian law.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I shall respond to that last point first. The noble Lord is right: I join him in saying that there should be no impunity for those who breach international humanitarian law. However, it is a question of how and when one deals with that. He knows that this Government have put their resources where their mouth is and have committed money to enabling very brave people to gather, across Syria, information which we hope can be used in future judicial proceedings to hold to account those guilty of these atrocities.

It is important that we take stock of the United Nations request for land access to the four areas to which the Assad regime has so far refused the UN access. Once we see the result of that, we will know more about the timetable and about what happens next, but clearly, as land access is more secure, particularly for those receiving the aid as well as for those delivering it, that would be the best outcome. We have made it clear that the UN would then have to consider the application to Assad to deliver air drops. How it would do that and the viability of those air drops would be up to the UN to determine. Of course, we have to take into account that both Assad and the Russian Government have air defences in place in Syria, so if they were not to consent, we would enter a very dangerous process.

Therefore, the noble Lord is right to ask about the influence of Russia and Iran. They are both members of the ISSG, and Russia has played a leading part in agreeing to the cessation of hostilities and to humanitarian aid being delivered. Via our work through the ISSG and other organisations such as the UN and the Human Rights Council, we continue to impress on Russia the importance of using its influence to persuade the Assad regime to do what the whole world sees as the only right thing—to allow aid to be delivered to the areas that have been starved and bombed as a political weapon. That is a disgrace.

EU: Turkish Membership

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 25th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, our view is indeed that Turkey must adhere to the common norms on human rights. The Copenhagen criteria underwrite that requirement, as the noble Lord will be more aware than most. It is a fact that Turkey has a long way to go before it meets the necessary standards of human rights and can achieve accession. The opportunity to work towards EU accession is, I hope, the lever that will persuade the country to reform its views on human rights.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, Turkey is of course also a member of NATO. Building security in Europe is at the front line of issues of security. Clearly, as the Minister indicated, the accession process can address the issues of democracy and accountability and, not least, the problems we have with Cyprus. Can the noble Baroness assure us that she will continue that process and not give in to the scare tactics that have been used disgracefully by other members of her Government?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I wholeheartedly agree that that process should continue. I give that undertaking.

European Union: United Kingdom Membership

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 23rd May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Again, the noble Lord is right.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, people often forget that what has strengthened NATO has been the EU’s influence in ensuring that human rights, democracy and a growing economy are part of that NATO field. Of course, when NATO was established, Greece and Spain had dictatorships, and there have been dictatorships in other parts of Europe. Does the Minister agree that the EU complements and strengthens NATO rather than weakens it?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, indeed, the EU complements and strengthens NATO, rather than weakens it. The current holder of the position of NATO Secretary-General, Jens Stoltenberg, said only last month:

“We also see the importance of the United Kingdom being so supportive both inside NATO and inside the European Union, promoting increased cooperation between NATO and the European Union”.

He made the point that,

“a more fragmented Europe is bad for our security and it’s bad for NATO”.

Jan Böhmermann

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, ultimately it is for the Government and people of Germany to set and implement their own laws. The Chancellor has referred the matter, as is proper, to the prosecuting authorities for them to make the decision. Under paragraph 103 of the German Criminal Code, insulting a foreign head of state carries a maximum jail term of three years. It is a matter for the prosecutor now to decide whether a prosecution will go ahead. As for the thought of Chancellor Merkel kow-towing, I have met her—in your dreams.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, arcane laws do exist, and I understand the Chancellor is committed to removing that law. In fact, there are similar laws in Greece, the Netherlands, Portugal and Romania. Does the Minister agree with me that encouraging all European countries to remain a member of the European Court of Human Rights is a vital prerequisite for democracy in our communities?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises the extremely important point—that there are laws around the world which do inhibit freedom of expression. Yesterday, I made it clear that we want to continue to persuade countries around the world to remove those barriers. Indeed, the Chancellor, Angela Merkel, has made it clear that she wants to remove the very legislation which it appears Jan Böhmermann has now fallen foul of—if that is the decision of the judicial authorities. She said that will happen by 2018, and her coalition partners have agreed with her that this legislation should be removed. That is what we can do around the world: use our influence both as a member of the European Union—which magnifies our voice around the world—and through the United Nations to remove bad law.

Syria and Iraq: Genocide

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 21st April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I bear in mind victims of Daesh whom I have personally met, both here and in Iraq. I am not therefore going to get involved in what may or may not be procedural niceties. It is clearly a matter for judicial authorities to determine whether a genocide has taken place. The noble Lord referred to a comment by my honourable friend in another place yesterday, when he expressed his personal view, which he has expressed before, when he said:

“I believe that genocide has taken place”.

He added that,

“as the Prime Minister has said”—

and I am aware that the Prime Minister has written to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, on this—

“genocide is a matter of legal rather than political opinion. We as the Government are not the prosecutor, the judge or the jury”.—[Official Report, Commons, 20/4/16; col. 995.]

We may not be all those things, but I say to Daesh and to the perpetrators that we have a long memory; we have allies, and we are working with the Government of Iraq. We will not forget the perpetrators, and they will pay the price.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the government Ministers abstained yesterday. Of course, the House of Commons spoke with a clear and unanimous voice yesterday, and there is no doubt that Daesh is killing people because they belong to ethnic, racial or religious groups. What it is doing has all the hallmarks of genocide, as well as crimes against humanity and war crimes. The Government have moved on since the Minister spoke to this House in December, and Tobias Ellwood yesterday repeated what he said earlier in the month that we are helping to gather evidence that could be used to hold Daesh to account appropriately. He said, ultimately—and I repeat what the Minister said—that,

“it is not for Governments to be the prosecutor, judge or jury”.—[Official Report, Commons, 20/4/16; col. 996.]

However, can the Minister tell us what progress the Government are making in gathering evidence, and when they intend to take that evidence to the Security Council so that the matter can be referred to the courts?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I shall address the last part of the noble Lord’s question first, because it covers something that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, properly raised—the Security Council, which was the nub of the resolution passed yesterday in another place. As I said earlier, we have tried to take this matter forward. We were very successful in achieving a resolution about investigations, but not further than that. Further discussions are taking place across the board. Clearly, all right-minded people are trying to find a resolution to this. The collection of information and evidence has to be robustly done. We are making some progress with that simply because of the bravery of organisations which we, alongside other members of the United Nations, help to fund. Yesterday in this House, I launched the Kurdish-language version of the international protocol on the collection and documentation of evidence, which already exists in Arabic. We are making progress, but only because of great risks taken by people who, having collected robust evidence, have to smuggle it out. They are brave indeed.

Safeguarding Children: British Overseas Territories

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 13th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Cayman Islands has commissioned a UK children’s services professional to look at raising standards and safeguarding. I hope that other islands will follow that example.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to the responsibility of the British Government in relation to the 17 overseas territories but of course the principles of the rule of law, openness and transparency are vital. Can she therefore explain why the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is not pressing for a central register of ownership, open to the public, so that all can see how beneficial ownership operates in these territories?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I know that we have a somewhat generous approach to interpreting the words before us on the Order Paper, but may I urge the noble Lord to direct his question at me again when we reach the point next Wednesday at which the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, has a Question on the Order Paper that will give me the opportunity to answer him?

Palestinian Authority Television

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 23rd March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord is correct to point out that, through DfID, we provide significant humanitarian aid to the people who are suffering in Gaza. It is conditional on the basis that it goes only to people in need. The Palestinian Authority should make best efforts to resume control of Gaza and re-engage in discussions with Israel about how peace may be achieved.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, there is no justification for terrorism or for the actions that we saw yesterday. We unequivocally condemn them. The Minister is absolutely right. Our focus is on keeping the two-state solution and hopes for peace alive. We need to invest in interfaith, intercommunity activity. Will she commit to doing more of this because, at the moment, it is extremely limited?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I whole- heartedly agree with the noble Lord. During the early part of this year, we reopened bids for the Magna Carta Fund for Human Rights and Democracy, which is FCO-based. It has been doubled this year to its highest ever level. We will welcome bids if they qualify for support. The noble Lord is right; we need to do more to help.

Overseas Territories Joint Ministerial Council

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 3rd December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the latest issue of Private Eye reported that, in the tax year 2013-14, there were 11,000 property purchases in the UK using tax-haven companies. Confirming that this issue was discussed, the Minister said that we need to open up beneficial ownership so that criminal assets can be seized before they are moved out of the reach and jurisdiction of the UK Government. This morning, the Minister spoke only of an agreement to create central registries, and did not mention the words in the final communiqué about “similarly effective systems”. Has there been agreement from all overseas territories with financial centres to create central registries, or have some agreed only to “similarly effective systems”? If so, which ones?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, this is clearly a work in progress, and progress has been made. I have seen the flow chart showing where red and orange have gone to green, and progress has been achieved. The noble Lord asked about similarly effective systems. It may be that in some of the jurisdictions a centrally-held register is not seen as the best way forward. However, we have made clear that, in working in partnership with the overseas territories, it is important to have good governance and transparency. As my honourable friend said this morning, the discussions that have taken place over the past two days have been set out in the communiqué, and all the territories with financial services sectors agreed to hold beneficial-ownership information in their respective jurisdictions via central registers or similarly effective systems. We then said that we would give the highest priority to discussing how to take that forward, and I hope that we will then be in a better position to give the exact details that the noble Lord requests.

European Union Referendum Bill

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 23rd November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, we do not support the amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Green, mainly because, as the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, said, they are highly speculative, impossible to calculate, unpredictable, and not based on factual information that the Government have. Confusing the free movement of labour with migration and simply putting everyone in together will not lead to a rational debate.

The free movement of labour has been an important component of the EU. Certainly, people have come here to work. Where they have not come here to work, the Government have been addressing those issues in terms of the benefits system, as the Labour Party has also committed to do.

I have no doubt that in the course of this referendum campaign, the noble Lords, Lord Green and Lord Willoughby de Broke, will repeat what they have said. They will make this issue part of the referendum campaign and I will take great pleasure in making sure that other voices are heard in that debate which challenge some of the assumptions about migration. But for the purposes of the EU referendum campaign, it is wrong to confuse the free movement of labour with migration, and it certainly is not capable of being subject to a rational report.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, Amendments 26 and 27, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Green of Deddington, would create a statutory requirement for the Secretary of State to publish two very specific reports no later than 12 weeks before the date of the referendum, and to lay these reports before each House of Parliament.

The first of the reports, in Amendment 26, would focus on the effect that remaining in the European Union would have on net migration to the United Kingdom. The second would include information on access to citizenship for non-EU citizens within member states. As I have set out, and as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, just alluded to, the Government have come forward with amendments designed to provide information that is as useful as possible to the public, ensuring that they are able to make an informed choice. In addition, these reports should be appropriate for the Government rather than the kinds of reports that campaigning groups or other groups not related to the campaign might commonly issue in any event. We have said throughout that whatever the Government produce in the way of reports must be objective and grounded in fact.

The Government already publish information on migration issues in this country. The Home Office issues a quarterly release of immigration statistics from administrative sources. These statistics are complemented by the Migration Statistics Quarterly Report of the Office for National Statistics. Indeed, I understand that the next set of figures is due to be published this Thursday. In addition, the Office for National Statistics periodically publishes quantitative projections, looking at future figures and trends. That is it—they look at the likely future figures and trends. The Government should publish only reports that are grounded in fact and objective.

The wording of Amendment 26 is clearly speculative, because it asks the Government to publish,

“a report on the impact of continued membership of the European Union on the scale of net migration to the United Kingdom and its consequential effect on the future population of the United Kingdom”.

One can speculate on that, but one cannot provide statistical information grounded in fact that would guide the public in a non-directional way about how to vote in a referendum. I understand the noble Lord’s concern, but there are ways in which information is already provided, and it is better provided by others rather than by a statutory requirement on the Government.

On Amendment 27, my noble friend Lord Hamilton raised the issue of free movement. The amendment asks the Government to lay a report giving information,

“on the current length of time taken for people who are not European Union citizens to acquire citizenship in each member state”.

That in itself is not information to which the Government would have right of access, so I am not sure how a statutory requirement could be placed upon us. The amendment also asks us to report on,

“the extent of free movement within the European Union that accompanies such citizenships and accrues to family members of those citizens”.

Again, this is a matter of reporting on the law of other countries rather than conditions in this country. My noble friend Lord Hamilton raised a serious point about migration, and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made it clear that in his negotiations with our European colleagues—the other 27 states—one of his four requirements is that there should be reform of the impact of migration, particularly as it relates to welfare law.

I am afraid that my noble friend will have to wait a little while before we have a debate on exactly what the impact of the law on free movement is. But I am sure that the usual channels will arrange good opportunities for debate, because if they do not, the Government will not be able to set out our case—which we need to do. I feel confident that the usual channels will be there first, before I can even ask. I understand the concerns underlying the amendments. I hope that I have been able to explain why it would be inappropriate for them to go into the Bill—but also why their content will, indeed, be the focus of much debate, not just by Government and by Parliament but by all the campaigning groups. I therefore urge the noble Lord, Lord Green, to withdraw his amendment.

European Union Referendum Bill

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 18th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

Precisely because of the point that I make: I suspect that such intervention will have completely the opposite effect, whereas in Ireland perhaps it even encouraged people. I do not think that that will be the case here. If there is seen to be interference, people will see it that way and will not be very happy.

I am grateful to the Minister for circulating the correspondence on this, including the commitment by the Commission. Obviously, it states that it will carry out its treaty obligations, but in no way will it be involved in anything that could be perceived as interference in a matter that is strictly for the British people and the British Government—I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, on that.

Turning to the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, I think that there is a legitimate point here that needs to be properly addressed—he should not look so surprised that I agree with him; I suspect that we agree on a lot of things. The point is that we have an offence where the sanction is in a way paid by the victim, which does not make sense. The Electoral Commission does not agree with the formulation because it does not want to accept such a responsibility. In Committee, I referred to sanctions other than judicial review that could be considered in relation to individuals. In all walks of life, people are subject to such sanctions. In the case of public office and civil servants, there is the Ministerial Code and the Civil Service Code. I would be keen to hear from the noble Baroness whether she has given any thought since Committee to how we can have a regime where, if an offence is committed, the perpetrator pays the cost and not the victim.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, Amendment 13, tabled by my noble friend Lord Hamilton, relates to the role of the EU institutions during the referendum. It follows the wording of a similar amendment that my noble friend tabled in Committee. The concern that he and other noble friends have expressed is that EU institutions may have an undue influence on the outcome of the referendum.

Although there are differing views on that, it is no doubt a legitimate concern and certainly one which the Government share. This is a referendum to be held on Britain’s membership of the European Union. It is therefore clear that the impression of outside interference or direct campaigning by overseas bodies with a vested interest would undermine public trust in the outcome. It would also be completely counterproductive; I think that people would see through it.

That is why the Government have ensured that sensible controls will apply on who can spend money to influence the referendum and how they can be funded. Some 44 of the Bill’s 62 pages relate to exactly these issues.

Campaigners at the referendum can accept money only from individuals or bodies who have a sufficient connection to the UK or to Gibraltar. In Committee, I went through in detail issues relating to permitted donors and permitted participants—I think that it would be wrong if I tried to go through that again on Report.

As the EU institutions are not eligible donors, a permitted participant would be committing an offence if they accepted money from the EU institutions to campaign. I should re-emphasise that permitted participants cannot accept donations of more than £500 from EU institutions. In part, therefore, my noble friend’s amendment is unnecessary.

The amendment has another arm to it, which applies directly to the EU institutions and would prevent them actively engaging in campaigning.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

I have one brief question relating to Gibraltar. Political parties currently are not permitted to accept donations from Gibraltar, but when the Bill becomes enforceable they will be if it is for the purposes of the referendum. I want to understand how the amendment will impact in particular on the changes relating to Gibraltar.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, Amendment 14, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Jay, relates to the controls that apply to donations received by campaigners. I was asked about the European Commission. As I explained in Committee, one of the technical issues is that permitted participants in these matters are individuals and bodies that intend to spend more than £10,000 on campaigning during the referendum period and so register with the Electoral Commission. The European Commission cannot be a permitted participant. If it were to spend money outside the campaign and in Europe, there are controls over where it can give that money and how it can give it. For example, there is a prohibition on accepting donations of more than £500 from an ineligible source, so people cannot accept money from it.

I was going to try to reduce the amount that I would read out at this late hour, but it looks as though I am being sucked back into doing exactly that. Perhaps I ought to try to address more closely Amendment 14 itself.

In considering the amendment, two questions have to be asked: is there a problem, and, if yes, does the amendment provide the solution? To the first question the answer is not straightforward, which is why the noble Lord tabled the amendment. He has done so after discussion with the Electoral Commission. It may come as a bit of a surprise to see this briefing from the Electoral Commission at such a late stage, particularly because I notice that my noble friend Lord Forsyth has been trying to get other information and has not been given the opportunity to obtain that. All I can say is that this briefing from the Electoral Commission that we have all seen arrived at about quarter to 12 in noble Lords’ in-boxes yesterday. The Electoral Commission has suggested that the rules are unclear. As I remarked earlier, it is 15 years since PPERA became an Act. Over that period, all the conditions which the Electoral Commission now calls into doubt have been operating. Therefore, it is rather a surprise that these matters have been raised at this stage, but there you go.

The conditions in PPERA applied for the AV referendum and were replicated, through an Act of the Scottish Parliament, for the Scottish independence referendum, and nobody called them into question then. Indeed, at that stage, guidance from the Electoral Commission itself clearly and accurately explained the rules to campaigners in Scotland. Furthermore, the commission’s own report on the Scottish independence referendum noted that it provided,

“a model that can be built on for any future referendums”.

Despite that, as noble Lords will note, the Electoral Commission’s briefing supports this amendment because the commission now has concerns about the rules. We have to take those concerns seriously because that is the whole point of trying to have rules upon which a fair referendum is to be based. The concerns relate to the fact that PPERA does not prevent campaigners accepting donations before they register as permitted participants, if the donation would have been impermissible after registration. If noble Lords consider that this is a problem, it must then be asked: is Amendment 14 the solution? Here the answer is clearly no for three reasons. First, it goes too far. The amendment would apply to donations received by any individual or organisation, regardless of whether or not they are, or later become, a permitted participant. At any point prior to the referendum, anyone, regardless of the size of the donation or the amount they will spend, could commit this new criminal offence. This really would be a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Secondly, the amendment is unworkable. It would create an offence of allowing the use of money received from an impermissible source to meet referendum expenses. Currently, the rules do not require campaigners to track what each pound received is spent on. This is for a good reason, as attempting to do so would be a herculean task in administrative time. It would only ever create an arbitrary link between money in and money out. I find it difficult to imagine how that might be accurately assessed. How would anyone be able to prove that the £1,000 a campaigner received from a particular source was the exact same £1,000 spent on referendum expenses several months later? How could it work for charities and other organisations that receive donations from all over the world for different reasons? Clearly, that matter would have to be looked at if the amendment is to be put right but, as the amendment stands, it does not work.

The fundamental changes that Amendment 14 would introduce would begin to unstitch the fundamental principles that apply in PPERA, in particular the purposes of having a referendum period and permitted participants. These are all concepts which, to date, have been accepted by Parliament and endorsed by the Electoral Commission, and have provided the framework for well-controlled referendums in the UK.

The Government had questioned the whole issue of the potential for concern over donations received prior to registration. That is the kind of questioning one has to do. That is why we have required reporting ahead of the poll in the Bill, following the approach taken at the Scottish independence referendum. Where PPERA provides only for permitted participants to report on donations after the poll, the Bill also requires them to report publicly before the poll on donations received. That has two benefits. First, registered campaigners must be transparent about the sources of their funding before the vote takes place. More significantly in this context, the reports must detail reportable donations received during a set reporting period, even if received prior to that campaigner becoming a permitted participant—because you can change from being a campaigner to being a permitted participant—provided the donation was for the purposes of meeting referendum expenses during the referendum period.

This gives a flavour of how complicated this issue is. This approach works within the existing framework and maintains a proportionate approach to controlling campaign funding. Given the concern over the influence of overseas funding, we believe that having to report all these matters immediately prior to the referendum would act as a deterrent in most cases, even though the rules do not seek to regulate everybody at all times. It does mean that if you become a permitted participant, money received prior to that point from a source that would be impermissible once you had registered would have to be publicly declared before the referendum took place.

I come back to the underlying principle that it is important to ensure that there is transparency and that the transparency requirements imposed by pre-poll reporting are as effective as they can be. In the light of the noble Lord’s concerns, I give an undertaking that the Government will look again at how the controls on pre-poll reporting work to deliver the appropriate level of transparency, balanced with a sensible compliance burden. We will consider these matters but they are complicated and technical. I cannot promise to come back with something that actually works but we will do our best.

In coming up with its proposals, the Electoral Commission has diagnosed what it now sees to be a problem but has not found the solution in its amendment. I therefore hope that at this stage, with the commitment I have given to look at this very closely, the noble Lord, Lord Jay, will withdraw his amendment. Of course, I undertake to work with him between now and Third Reading to see what can be achieved on these matters.

European Union Referendum Bill

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 4th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, indeed I can. The amendment to which the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, refers is a matter of access to the register. I can give an assurance that we have taken full account of the advice provided by the Electoral Commission.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

The Minister was relatively explicit about this, but I have a question in relation to Amendment 49 and the operation of the requirement to check registers in Gibraltar. I hear what she said about this being passed through the appropriate parliamentary procedures in Gibraltar, but it is a bit unique that we have another Government doing something. Of course, compliance with donations will require political parties to check properly. I wanted to be absolutely certain that we will be properly advised as to when that approval is given.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, that is a very reasonable point to make. As I mentioned earlier, with regard to Amendment 49, it is a matter on which the Gibraltar Government will bring forward legislation —not only in respect of this but on the wider issues of Gibraltar being part of the referendum franchise. I will happily undertake to inform the noble Lord by letter when that legislation goes through, and I shall pop it to other noble Lords who have taken an interest.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

I have no doubt that individuals within political parties will wish to campaign one way or the other. I have absolutely no problem with that but I do have a problem with the idea that the Labour Party—like UKIP—is not entitled to have a policy or to be able to campaign on that policy and articulate its own message. I admire the Prime Minister. I admire his ability and I hope very much that he will use his extensive negotiating skills to achieve a settlement that will be in the best interests of this country. But that will not stop the Labour Party arguing its own view about Britain’s national interests, which will not be related solely to the reasons that the Prime Minister has. That is why it is really important that political parties have the right to campaign properly.

PPERA sets limits on what political parties can spend on a specific campaign. I am familiar with the requirements of PPERA. I am familiar with the quite onerous responsibilities of political parties, not least that they have to make sure that every single donation received is from a permitted donor; they have to double- check and cross-reference. Errors have been made in the past, I know. But we have to understand that this debate is about a cap on the ability of parties to campaign and that is why it is so important that we resist it.

As for all the questions about who has what, I am sure the Minister will clarify all the positions that I have set out. It is not for me to argue—this is a government Bill—but I am sure she will do so well.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, Amendment 34 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, would allow the Electoral Commission to designate a lead campaigner for one side of the argument at this referendum without having to appoint one for the other. This would override the current rules that apply for designated lead organisations. These provide that the commission must designate a lead campaigner on each side, or not at all. The reason for this is clearly, as noble Lords have argued tonight, that in such matters there should be as fair a playing field as possible.

In the case of multiple applications for designation as a lead campaigner, the Electoral Commission must appoint for each side the applicant which represents “to the greatest extent” those campaigning for a particular outcome. This is intended to ensure the designation of organisations which represent the broad spread of opinion on each side. The benefits then available to the designated lead organisations ensure that each side of the argument has a fair opportunity to put its case to the wider voting public. Taken together, these provisions aim to ensure informed voting after a vibrant debate.

However, the rules for this referendum must also ensure that the referendum is run fairly and that we do not create any perception of bias. The principle that the Electoral Commission cannot designate on just one side is intended to support that objective. The benefits available to the designated lead organisations are significant. I am talking not about political parties per se—they may not end up being designated as lead organisations—but organisations designated by the Electoral Commission as lead organisations.

Allowing public funds to be used to create a distorted campaign with only one designated lead organisation would naturally raise public concern. This would clearly be the case where the commission receives applications from both sides but does not consider that those on one side meet the statutory tests. Under the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, in this circumstance the arguments of the side that does not get appointed would not get a fair hearing. The administrative failings of those who failed to meet the statutory test should not invalidate the right of both sides to an equal opportunity to make their respective cases.

There is, of course, the view that this amendment may help avoid a circumstance where one side deliberately refuses to apply for designation to prevent the other side receiving its benefits. This could occur, for example, if one side lacks the funding to take advantage of the benefits, particularly the higher spending limits, or wishes to avoid debate on an issue of low public interest. I do not think any noble Lord is going to suggest that this case will be a matter be of low public interest. That is not going to be a feature of this referendum. Given the public interest in the referendum, a more cynical attempt to deprive the other side of the benefits of designation surely would be widely reported and deeply harmful to a campaigner’s own cause—it would be seen as being a cheat.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I think there is some confusion between the issue of a political party carrying out a campaign and a designated lead campaigner. If my noble friend is saying that there should be a level playing field with regard to the sums of money to be spent on each campaign, that would be saying that the designated lead campaigners, if they were not a political party, would have to have a total sum of not only what they spent but what every single other person in the country who agreed with them spent. I really do not think that that is what he is trying to achieve. I accept that my noble friend is trying to introduce a discussion about apparent unfairness in the funds available to political parties. I think that that is a debate for a wider issue as to what political party funding may comprise.

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

I am seeking explanation only because the Minister referred to the designated campaigns earlier. This debate seems to be solely about the ability to spend money, but other things come with being a designated campaigning group, not least the right to free mail and other access. Can the Minister explain that, so we understand the importance of it?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I will jump to a little later in my speech and just say that the designated lead campaigners are entitled not only to the spending limit which has been the subject of this debate but to a grant from public funds of up to £600,000, free delivery of mailings to every household or every elector, eligibility to make referendum broadcasts and the use of public rooms. I hope that is helpful.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I do not think that the Committee would wish to contemplate even further legislation, but I can certainly contemplate further consideration on the basis of what the noble Lord has said. I have to say that I thought we had considered properly before today, but of course I always listen to the points made by the noble Lord and am prepared to do so before Report.

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

I have a question for the noble Lord about the potential risk. My understanding is that the risk is not simply gaming on the part of one side to deprive the other of funding. We constantly talk about funding when, actually, it is access to broadcast, access to free mail and all the other things that go with being a designated organisation. In evaluating the risk, does the noble Lord recognise a difficulty? Say, for example, there is no consensus among the leave campaign, so we end up with three, two or four organisations. Is the Electoral Commission, in those circumstances, permitted to decide on the merits of two or three, or does it have to say there is no lead designation?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

The difficulty is in the name itself. A special political adviser is not like a civil servant, though they are governed by certain Civil Service rules. Let us talk about Ministers—when is a Minister not a Minister? Such things are very difficult to legislate on, so there are problems. When special advisers are members of political parties, they are often engaged in political discussions. It seems very difficult to legislate in this Bill about how we govern them.

A good point is being made about the question of EU institutions. The Electoral Commission, which the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, has quoted, has said that although we cannot necessarily legislate about these things, we can ensure that there is clear guidance agreed between the parties. That is a good idea.

On Amendment 55, we would appreciate the Minister repeating her assurances that normal business can be conducted and that the requirements of Section 125 will not impinge on that. The noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, has quoted the Electoral Commission, which is satisfied that the Scottish and Welsh Governments and the Northern Ireland Executive are covered by the requirements of Section 125. However, the noble Lord made a very good point about regulations and sanctions. In fact, the perpetrators do not get fined—it is the victims who get fined and the taxpayers who pay for the offence. That is something we need to look into, but I am pretty certain that clauses in a Bill are not the appropriate way to do so. We have had debates recently about the Ministerial Code. Perhaps we could table another quick amendment to ensure that what is required of Ministers is clear. That could also apply to Civil Service codes. It is within the powers of the Government to act on what the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, is seeking, without necessarily supporting his amendment.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, in my opening speech to this group of amendments I set out the Government’s position on Section 125 of PPERA and Clause 6 of the EU Referendum Bill. This is a complicated group of amendments, so I suggest that I take them sequentially as much as possible. I will further elucidate the position on Clause 6. In particular, the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, has assisted the debate today and I am grateful to him—I know that it was his intention to facilitate a debate in the House in a constructive way.

Amendment 38, tabled in the name of my noble friend Lord Hamilton, relates to the involvement of Ministers, departments and local authorities in activities for referendum purposes in the 28 days before the referendum. I can assure my noble friend that his proposed amendment duplicates to a certain extent provisions already included in the Bill.

Section 125 of PPERA places restrictions on publicly funded bodies and persons from publishing certain material in relation to the referendum in the final 28 days of the campaign. The restrictions of this section will apply, in full, following an amendment made on Report in the other place, which was referred to by noble Lords. These restrictions will apply not only to Ministers, government departments and local authorities, but also to other publicly funded persons and bodies. The Government have consistently been clear that we will not undertake any campaigning activity during the 28-day restricted period.

In addition, Ministers and civil servants, including special advisers, are subject to purdah guidance which will be issued in advance of the restricted period. This guidance will reflect the statutory provisions. Special advisers are covered. In line with long-standing precedent and convention, this guidance will make it clear that Ministers and civil servants, including special advisers, will not undertake campaign-related activity during the 28-day period. I hope my noble friend will understand that we do not support his amendment as it specifically relates to special advisers. It is already there—it is dealt with by Section 125.

Ministers acting in their official capacity, advised by special advisers and other civil servants, will be prohibited from publishing certain material in relation to the referendum in the final 28 days of the campaign. A publication by a special adviser on behalf of a Minister would also be covered by the prohibition. The role of special advisers is set out in the special advisers’ code of conduct. This code includes clear provisions in respect of special advisers’ involvement in national political activity. They will be subject to the purdah guidance that will be issued to departments ahead of the 28-day restricted period. Any campaign activity that might be undertaken by special advisers must be in their own time, outside office hours and without the use of government resources. They cannot think they can do it while on annual leave; that does not work. If a special adviser wanted to campaign full time or publicly, they would first have to resign from their government post. It is right that special advisers are able to undertake other activity in their own time and without the use of official resources. My noble friend’s Amendment 38 would inhibit their ability to do so and we believe it would place unfair restrictions on this particular group. I hope my noble friend will understand that I do not support his Amendment 38.

My noble friend’s Amendment 39 relates to the role of the EU institutions. It seeks to prevent the EU institution donating to permitted participants or directly campaigning at the EU referendum. Turning first to the issue of donations, I understand my noble friend’s concerns. This is a debate about the UK’s membership of the EU, and we need sensible controls on who can spend money to influence the outcome. As we have already discussed on previous groups, PPERA provides controls on spending and on foreign funding of permitted participants. Broadly speaking, the list of those eligible to donate to permitted participants is the same as the list of permissible donors to political parties as set out in PPERA. However, we have extended the list to take account of the inclusion of Gibraltar in this referendum and to include the bodies that since the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act have been eligible to become third-party campaigners at elections. Significantly, this means that permitted participants cannot accept donations of more than £500 from anyone who is not a permissible donor. The list of permissible donors does not include the European institutions. My noble friend referred to the European Communities Act 1972, but the provisions of that Act have no bearing on this. I can assure my noble friend that it does not provide the European institutions with a get-out. Permitted participants cannot accept donations of more than £500 from the EU institutions. It is banned.

My noble friend’s amendment aims further to prevent the EU institutions, including the European Commission, campaigning at the referendum. I am sure my noble friend is aware that under the European Union Referendum Bill the EU institutions are not on the list of those eligible to register as a permitted participant. In relation to campaigning, the Bill does not place controls on the activities of the EU institutions directly, which I know is my noble friend’s concern. That is because our national legislation does not regulate behaviour outside our jurisdiction, but also because if the institutions are operating within our jurisdiction, they are afforded immunities and privileges under EU law. We recognise my noble friend’s concern, which is shared by others, but we believe that the best way to prevent the EU institutions influencing the outcome of the referendum is through a process of constructive dialogue. I can assure the Committee that Ministers are already deeply involved in just that.

I now turn to the amendments which relate to Clause 6. I shall again go sequentially for the moment and then deal with Clause 6 as a whole. I have already explained the history of what happened to Clause 6, so I shall not weary the Committee by doing it again. My noble friend Lord Hamilton has expressed further concern about the clause. He explained that Amendment 52 provides that the Government must obtain the consent of the Electoral Commission before making regulations under Clause 6. The clause as it stands requires Ministers to consult the Electoral Commission prior to making regulations. This is consistent with other provisions in electoral law that require the Electoral Commission to be consulted on proposed legislative changes. However, Ministers are not obliged to obtain the Electoral Commission’s agreement, and we do not think it is necessary to take a different approach for the EU referendum.

My noble friend Lord Hamilton tabled Amendment 54, which removes subsection (8), to ensure that we do not go back on our word that we will not reintroduce the exemption from purdah. As I understand it, he thinks that subsection (8) would give the Government the opportunity to reinstate the original exemption from purdah. I assure him that the way Clause 6 is drafted means that the subsection he is worried about would give powers to act only in matters not related to Section 125 or to matters of purdah. We do not intend to abolish purdah. Subsection (8) simply does not give the Government the power to do that.

My noble friend Lord Forsyth kindly indicated that he would not proceed with Amendment 53, so I hope he will allow me not to cover that now. He asked me for clarification on my statement at the beginning with regard to the proposals about Clause 6. I repeat that we do not plan to bring forward any regulations under the provisions of Clause 6. At the moment, we do not see the eventuality where we would wish to do so. We have considered this very carefully, and I will refer to that again when I refer to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Kerr. I shall subsume the two amendments.

Amendment 55, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, seeks to ensure that normal government business, including business between the Government and the EU institutions, is not covered by the restrictions that will apply to the Government in the final 28 days. The noble Lord has given the Government the opportunity again to look very carefully at the estimate of the level of risk to government business. I can assure the Committee that the Government have been considering these matters very carefully since the consideration in the House of Commons at Third Reading earlier this autumn. We have considered this in great detail from that moment, we continue to do so and we listened to this House at Second Reading. The Government agree that there is a risk that Section 125 may give rise to legal challenge because it is so widely drawn. That is still our position. We tabled an amendment in the other place, which was not accepted, and we live with that decision by another place.

European Union Referendum Bill

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Wednesday 4th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, these amendments are not so much probing as having a go. Their purpose is clear: this is a warning shot. I was stunned by the telling possibility that, instead of the campaigns themselves determining the issues, we should leave it to the BBC to decide which campaigns were admitted. In moving the amendment, the noble Lord once again rated the Electoral Commission highly. However, the commission has looked at the amendments and said they are unnecessary. Ofcom believes they are overkill and the BBC has also set out how it will develop its own specific guidelines. I have no doubt that the issue of bias will draw attention from both sides during the campaign. Listening to the “Today” programme may annoy me on some occasions and make the noble Lord just as annoyed on others, but we may have heard completely different arguments. It is in the nature of things that we do not approach these issues without bias ourselves. Clearly, we are all committed. The important thing is that provisions to ensure fair reporting of the campaign do exist. The BBC will also set up specific guidelines for the referendum and will constantly run impartiality reviews during the campaign so that it can ensure delivery against its editorial standards. That all happened during the Scottish referendum. These amendments are having a go rather than probing. I hope the Minister will support that view.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, Amendments 60 and 61BA deal with the crucial question of bias. Both noble Lords have made it clear that that is the basis of the views they put forward. How should one and how can one ensure fair and impartial broadcast media coverage? Noble Lords have approached the matter in slightly different ways. However, it is absolutely right that the public will expect and demand of its broadcasters that news and current affairs coverage of the EU referendum and of all other issues should be balanced and impartial, and must enhance the democratic process through informing the public. This will of course be pivotal to the public debate ahead of the referendum. Therefore, it is the right thing to demand.

Given the unique reach and impact that the broadcast media have on our lives, members of the public can and do complain that broadcasters sometimes miss the mark in terms of the impartiality of their coverage and the balance of their output. Certainly, from time to time, there have been errors of judgment. Considering the importance of the media to forming opinions, it is right that we should consider modes of redress where mistakes are adjudged to have been made. These issues are too important to leave such errors to hang unchallenged or uncorrected. However, I do not believe that these amendments are the right way to address the issue.

It is the Government’s position that the existing regulatory framework is robust and well understood, and that the establishment of a new authority in this specific circumstance would not be workable or proportionate. But I do appreciate that noble Lords were trying to draw attention to bias rather than creating new bureaucratic structures.

My noble friend’s Amendment 60 puts a duty on the Electoral Commission to take on the role of establishing a new authority. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, has alluded to, the Electoral Commission does not currently have the power to set up such an authority; nor does it have any expertise in policing the impartiality of broadcasting. That expertise is in the BBC Trust and Ofcom. The Electoral Commission has made it clear that it would not welcome such a role even if it were possible to legislate for it.

Even so, both amendments contain important points which demand serious attention on the matter of bias. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport wrote to Ofcom and the BBC Trust on 15 June asking them to explain how, as the responsible regulators, they will look to deliver prompt, proportionate redress where lapses in editorial judgment are adjudged to have been made. Ensuring that redress is made, and made promptly, is, I think, the overriding intent behind the new clauses.

Both the BBC Trust and Ofcom have responded, underlining the strict enforcement of the rules on impartiality and the additional steps that the BBC and Ofcom take to expedite the handling of serious complaints during an election or referendum period. Ofcom also confirmed that it will be reminding broadcasters of their responsibilities ahead of the referendum. If it would be helpful to noble Lords who have taken part in this debate, I would be happy to supply them with copies of those letters.

Issues, both recent and historic, have been raised over the impartiality of our broadcasters’ coverage of important issues and events. The review of the BBC’s coverage in 2005 by the noble Lord, Lord Wilson of Dinton, highlighted several issues; for example, that the BBC’s coverage needed to be more demonstrably impartial and that while there may have been no deliberate bias in BBC coverage of EU matters, there were perceptions that the BBC suffered from certain forms of cultural and unintentional bias.

Although the BBC implemented several changes following the noble Lord’s report, more recent complaints about the media’s coverage of the election and the Scottish independence referendum, and accusations of bias, have come to light. The speed at which today’s news media move and the potential for content that is not duly impartial to gain, by the very speed of it, an unwelcome, detrimental foothold in the minds of the public, means that we should all recognise the need for prompt, effective redress where mistakes are made.

It is vital to the high regard in which the UK’s broadcasters are held that their independence, impartiality and even-handedness are beyond question. In a world of increasing dominance of state broadcasters in other nations, where blatantly partial voices are gaining increased power and reach, it is critical that the integrity and impartiality of our broadcasters in the UK cannot be called into doubt or undermined. The quality and independence of our news coverage in the UK is a calling card for democracy, and carries huge weight in terms of our soft power abroad. We have debated that in relation to Foreign and Commonwealth Office policy issues over the past year.

EU Migration: Valletta Summit

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 3rd November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord refers to the European Council. The Question refers to the meeting in Valetta, which was called following discussion in the European Council. However, this matter concerns relationships between Africa and the EU. I am sure that the European Union is looking at a wide range of issues. The noble Lord is absolutely right to raise safe zones. The UK is open to considering any feasible options to protect civilians—for example, in Syria. There has been talk of safe or protected zones but history tells us that implementing genuinely safe zones is difficult. However, the fact that it is difficult does not mean that we should avoid trying to achieve it.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, as winter approaches conditions in refugee camps, particularly in the Lebanon, are becoming deplorable. In last week’s debate on Syria in this House, the noble Baroness the Minister for DfID said that the Government intended to take 1,000 refugees before the end of this year out of the 20,000 that they promised to take. Does the Minister really think that this is an adequate response to this crisis?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, although this issue is not related to the Question on the Order Paper, which concerns the Valetta summit, I appreciate the real concern around the House on these matters, so, with the leave of the House, I will respond to the noble Lord. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced that over this Parliament we would take an extra 20,000 people from Syria who are in desperate need—so it is not a quota but a judgment regarding those in desperate need—and gave a commitment that 1,000 of those would be in this country by Christmas. All departments across Government are working to make sure that they have safe accommodation and care when they are here. Overall, we have led the way in providing aid to ensure that those in unsafe zones can have a life there. At the moment, £1.15 billion has been invested in the Syria and Iraq area.

European Union Referendum Bill

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 2nd November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I will try to be very brief. I will start by saying that in the previous debate and at Second Reading my noble friend Lady Morgan made our position of support for the principle of reports and information quite clear. This comes back to the Electoral Commission’s submission that people want more information and informed debate. Clearly, we know that the debate will be focused on those who are committed to remaining in and those committed to leaving. However, the debate today highlights a problem we have with people who take a fixed position. I am one of those who believe that the Prime Minister is intent on negotiating progress within the European Union. I also believe that the European Union is open to constant reform. I do not see the date of the referendum as the date when everything stops, with it simply being a question of deciding, “It’s good now” or “It’s bad now”. The debate on reform is really important, which is why the Office for Budget Responsibility can have an important role to play.

The noble Lord, Lord Higgins, asked, “Who are these reports for?”. I could not agree with him more in asking that, but I think that they will make an important contribution and stop the debate deteriorating into one between those who simply want out at any cost and those who simply want in at any cost. The reform agenda must be very much at the forefront of the debate that we will have.

I think that the Office for Budget Responsibility is capable of doing the job. It produces reports on the Budget and is capable of producing a longer-term fiscal sustainability report on future trends and pressures. It is ideally suited to the job and I think that people will want to hear from it. There were debates in the other place about whether the Bank of England should or should not express an opinion. We support the independence of the Bank and it has been doing a good job. The noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, thinks that the Bank has got it wrong many times and asks, “Why should we listen to it now?”. However, I am also aware that when even a body like the Bank of England reports, the Guardian says that its report shows that the EU provides a dynamic environment for economic growth, whereas the Daily Telegraph said that the report has nothing to do with EU membership. So whatever the OBR produces, I have every confidence that the campaign to remain in the EU will say one thing and that the campaign to take Britain out will say something else. However, the British people deserve to understand the source of the information, which is why we will support both amendments.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 22, the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, has enabled the Committee to have a debate which goes to the heart of the question of who should be the author of a report regarding the effect upon the economy of the UK were there to be a decision by the British people at the referendum to leave the EU or remain in the EU. Of course, I notice that the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, talks about withdrawal and that my noble friend’s amendment talks about remaining in, but Amendments 22 and 23 together have enabled an overall debate.

The request in both amendments goes beyond the remit of the OBR, which is set out in the Budget Responsibility and National Audit Act 2011. The OBR’s main duty is to monitor the sustainability of the public finances. Its role is to make economic and fiscal forecasts based on the policies that the Government plan to implement. Conducting analysis of hypothetical scenarios for the purpose of a referendum is simply beyond its scope. Indeed, the statutory basis of the OBR forbids it to consider the effects of alternative policies.

It may assist the Committee if at this point I refer briefly to the 2011 Act. The precise language under Section 5(3) is as follows:

“Where any Government policies are relevant to the performance of that duty, the Office … must have regard to those policies, but … may not consider what the effect of any alternative policies would be”.

The point on alternative policies is very clear. In the Government’s view, these amendments would indeed require the OBR to consider alternative policies, as I think has become clear during the debate.

As my noble friends Lord Blencathra and Lord Forsyth alluded to, we should consider a wider point. If the OBR were to report on the economic consequences of UK withdrawal, it would risk pulling the organisation into the political debate—something that the OBR was set up precisely to guard against—which could therefore undermine its reputation as an independent and objective institution.

I understand that the amendment was tabled as a spur to debate and it has helped us in that regard. As I advised noble Lords at the end of the debate on the previous group of amendments, we will now think carefully about the issue of public information and consider what we may be able to bring forward by way of an amendment on Report. At this stage, I therefore invite the noble Lord, Lord Turnbull, to withdraw his amendment but, in the first instance, I urge my noble friend Lord Blencathra not to move Amendment 23, which is an amendment to Amendment 22.

Zhang Kai

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating that Statement. In July, the Minister expressed deep concern over the detention of Chinese Christian lawyers arrested that month as part of a major crackdown. She fully supported the subsequent EU statement calling for the release of those detained, who had sought to protect rights under the Chinese constitution. Now, we have the case of Zhang Kai, who was taken into custody by the police on 25 August. On 31 August, China Aid reported that he had been sentenced to six months’ imprisonment for gathering a crowd to disturb public order and charges relating to stealing, spying, and buying and illegally providing state secrets and intelligence to entities outside China. The Minister referred to some information that she had. Could she go into more detail about what is available to the British Government in terms of this case, and in particular whether further charges have been made and whether there will be a further hearing?

I understand what the Minister said about raising this and other cases. However, will she confirm that she or other Ministers have had the opportunity to raise this further case with their Chinese counterparts, either before the current state visit or during it?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for making reference to the fact that the Government are being consistent in their relationship with China and to the fact that we have pressed the importance of human rights upon our interlocutors there, because human rights underpin a stable and prosperous society.

On the noble Lord’s first question, with regard to the case, I am not in a position to give further information at the moment. What I can say is that it is the usual occurrence for diplomats in post in Beijing to keep a very close watch on any cases that are under way, to make attempts to visit people in detention and, when they are brought to trial, to ensure that they make every attempt to attend those trials. I am advised that, if denied access, they will remain in place in the court during the day to make the point that we are trying to see that there is proper judicial process. We have assistance in that from our EU colleagues.

In his second question, the noble Lord asked about the matter of imprisonment and the details of whether or not this issue has been raised, either before or during the course of the state visit. I cannot say further than I have at present because, as I mentioned very briefly in the Statement, there are continuing discussions this afternoon at Chequers and I would not wish to try to pre-empt what they may cover.

Soma Oil & Gas: SFO Investigation

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Monday 14th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am not exactly an aficionado of cricket but even I can recognise a wide. In the spirit of co-operation, I will say that what we are doing with regard to Somalia, which is not an overseas territory, is to encourage responsible investment. We are strongly urging the Somali Government to ensure that any resulting investment and benefit from it is shared by the whole country. The benefit is clearly needed to reduce poverty there.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister back to her place and wish her a speedy recovery. She is looking extremely well. I accept what she says about not commenting on this specific issue, but will she assure the House that at the end of this process, any lessons to be learned are shared with the Department for International Development?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord makes a perfect point. In practice, the person who briefed me today was previously with DfID and has given me the assurance that these matters are discussed. We need to learn the lessons from any such circumstance; clearly, we share that around Whitehall. However, the next time I go on a military helicopter, I will get out of it a little better than I did this last time.

Burundi

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Thursday 11th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness paints the picture about which we are all concerned—that this should not be an event that leads to Burundi returning to violence. The Arusha agreement of 2000 took them out of that, and they have a Government who reflect both Tutsis and Hutus. It is that kind of inclusive government that we will seek to continue. It is not a happy picture of the future if that were to break down.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, there is speculation in the media this morning about the future of the UN special envoy for the Great Lakes. Could the Minister update the House on the current situation? It is vital that his role continue, and that he continue in it.

Central African Republic

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Anelay of St Johns

Tuesday 4th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The right reverend Prelate makes a very important point. The work done by my noble friends in the Foreign Office and DfID this summer is bearing good results but we need to be able to take those further forward. I listened to what he said and I will certainly take his views back to the FCO.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, in this volatile situation in the Central African Republic, there clearly needs to be stability before progress can be made. Will the United Kingdom Government support security sector reform, with, in particular, advice from DfID on the development of national and local policing standards?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, of course we will listen to any requests made by the President for technical assistance. As the noble Lord will know, that can be done through the United Nations. Certainly at the moment MINUSCA, as a peacekeeping force, is concentrating on securing Bangui and the immediate area. Until that is done, it is difficult to go further outside Bangui to provide any assistance there. DfID will be doing all it can through delivering its humanitarian aid to provide the kind of technical assistance that is appropriate in those circumstances. The first objective, though, has to be to secure the region, which has been so troubled.