Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill

Debate between Lord Clement-Jones and Baroness Golding

Tuesday 14th January 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, such was the clamour to sign this amendment that I was unable to put my name on it, but if I had been able to I would have done. As was intended by my noble friend Lord Falkland, an interesting debate has been raised today, and I hope the second intention—to produce a positive response from the Minister—will also be achieved as part of that.

I was extremely interested to hear what the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, had to say. I do not think I have heard him speak quite as passionately on any subject since he defended his minority report on the long-term care of the elderly. He was no less cogent today than he was on that subject. However, I disagree with him on this matter as much as I disagreed with him about that report. He seems to believe that those involved in horseracing should do it for love not money, which seems an extraordinary position for an economist, because I cannot see, if there were no levy, where the industry would have the leverage to ensure that bookmakers made a contribution towards the welfare of the industry.

The welfare of the industry is an important part of our national life, considering not only how many people attend horseracing, but also the 85,000 people who work in the industry. I am not a socialist myself, but if I were my first consideration might be about the number of people employed in an industry. There is no doubt that the rise in betting operators licensed offshore over the years has contributed to a fall in revenue from the levy of about half between 2003 and today—a drastic reduction in support for the industry. There is only one major operator in the British market—Bet365—which is fully licensed for remote sports book operations by the UK Gambling Commission, and is therefore obliged to pay levy.

During the debate we have heard that a five-year deal was agreed with Betfair last year. There is also a four-year arrangement with William Hill, Ladbrokes, Coral and Betfred to make an additional voluntary contribution to the industry’s funding as part of the recent levy agreement. However, these are all voluntary arrangements, and legislative action is still required to provide a level playing field for all operators in the betting market in respect of their payments to British racing. Successive Governments—including the Labour Government—and Ministers have said that their preferred policy outcome is that all betting operators taking bets in Britain pay levy wherever they are located.

All amendments in Grand Committee are probing amendments. I hope that the amendment will elicit from the Government their views about the future of the horserace betting levy. The amendment would allow the Secretary of State to introduce a power. As was alluded to by my noble friend Lord Cavendish earlier, in discussions with the Minister that seemed to be an eminently sensible way forward: a power that would allow the Government to extend the levy to overseas bookmakers through a point-of-consumption licensing regime.

We have heard a considerable amount this afternoon about the ruling from the European Commission and the French power of fiscal levy; if I knew what a power of fiscal levy was, I would be far wiser than I am. Clearly, that set a precedent as far as the Commission was concerned. The noble Lord may be correct in saying that this is a permissible element of state aid rather than not constituting state aid; I am sure that he has a point there. Nevertheless, if we can get through the eye of a needle with the betting levy in this country on the precedent of the French power of fiscal levy, then surely we should be pursuing that.

What is the preliminary conclusion of the DCMS lawyers on that? Does the collection of levy from remote operators under a point-of-consumption licensing regime in their view constitute state aid or not? Is this a platform on which we can build a future levy? I hope that my noble friend the Minister can give us more information.

The reserve power is surely a way forward of which we could take advantage. It would allow us, as a number of noble Lords have said, to have proper consultation with the European Commission and other affected parties on the measure, and would allow the full implications of the ruling on the French power of fiscal levy to be assessed. Measures could therefore be enacted afterwards once the Government were satisfied of their legal position. What is not to like about that solution? I look forward very much to hearing what my noble friend the Minister has to say.

[Baroness Golding (Lab)]

My Lords, briefly, I share an office with my noble friend Lord Lipsey. We go to gambling meets together—horseracing and dog meetings—and share a great interest in it. I have never heard him say what he said today. I agree with every word that he said, and I wish to support him.