Brexit: Movement of Goods between Northern Ireland and Great Britain

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Thursday 24th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kilclooney (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, 53% of all goods and services for sale in Northern Ireland come from GB and 65% of all exports from Northern Ireland come to GB, resulting in 419,000 HGV crossings over the Irish Sea. I telephoned the Brexit imports and exports helpline this morning to ask what information was available to businesses conducting this trade and was told by the Government, “We have absolutely nothing on this. Sorry”. Will the Minister apologise for trying to ram through an agreement in three days in the House of Commons and in a short time in this House when no information would have been provided to Parliament or to Northern Ireland businesses conducting this business on the costs and burden inflicted on the UK internal single market?

[Lord Callanan]

I have made the point a number of times that we will work with the EU and the Irish authorities to make sure that these interventions and processes are as smooth and pain-free as possible. However, I readily accept that to get an agreement and a good deal—as we have done and as we are constantly urged by the Opposition to do—we have to compromise. I think this is a good deal. We have worked collaboratively, as we have been urged to do. The Opposition told us that they did not want no deal; they wanted a deal. We have now concluded two different deals, both of which they keep telling us they do not like. The Opposition should just admit that the reality is that they do not want to leave the European Union at all—they do not want to implement the result of the referendum. I am pleased that the Liberal Democrats are happy to acknowledge that.

Brexit

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Saturday 19th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I think it best if we have a conversation outside the Chamber on which different documents my noble friend is referring to.

For more than three years, this House has examined Brexit in great detail, as correctly observed by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, in his excellent speech. I pay tribute to the work of noble Lords and the many committees of this House which have looked at the EU withdrawal process. I will do my best to address as many of the points raised today as possible.

The deal before us today is a deal which ensures that we take back control. Along with my noble friends Lord Baker and Lord Howard, and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, I commend my right honourable friend the Prime Minister on securing it. This is a good deal. It ensures that we take back control of our laws, our borders, our money, farming and fishing policies and trade without disruption. It also provides the basis of a new relationship with the EU, based on free trade and friendly co-operation. I completely agree with my noble friends Lord Shinkwin, Lord Caithness, Lady Pidding and Lady Noakes that we now need certainty and no delay. As the good people of Northampton told my noble friend Lord Naseby, we should get on with it.

My noble friend Lady Harding was completely correct when she said that leadership is about making decisions and getting things done. As my noble friend Lord Mancroft also correctly highlighted, this is the deal that many said was not possible nor desired. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, told us only last week,

“there is no desire for a deal. It is all a ruse”.—[Official Report, 08/10/19; col. 2009.]

Yet here we are with a deal, only 87 days after the Prime Minister took office.

Many noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Newby, and my noble friend Lord Howell, spoke about what this deal means for the island of Ireland. The old deal was rejected because it tied us to a divisive and undemocratic backstop; indeed, in the many debates we have had I recall that many noble Lords’ criticisms of it centred precisely on those issues. That backstop, included in the previous Ireland-Northern Ireland protocol, kept the whole of the United Kingdom in a single customs territory with the EU. This would have required the UK to continue to align with EU tariff rates, therefore the UK would not have had a fully independent trade policy. This would have prevented us securing new trade deals with the rest of the world. The new deal abolishes the backstop entirely.

The provisions in the new protocol ensure that an open border is maintained on the island of Ireland and, most importantly, it upholds the Belfast agreement. Northern Ireland will have access to the single market but also be part of new UK trade deals, which we intend to negotiate around the world. Crucially, these arrangements will be dependent on the consent of those affected by it: the people of Northern Ireland themselves. In our view, this is essential to the acceptability of arrangements under which part of the UK accepts the rules of a different market.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

With regard to part of the United Kingdom now having to comply with rules made by a foreign entity, what representation will those people have over those rules?

Brexit: Preparations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I have to give the noble Lord 10 out of 10 for persistence. We have been around this course a number of times. I will give him the same answer I gave in the debates and the Questions last week: the Government will of course abide by the law.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

Page 29 of the Government’s paper shows that British exporters would see price increases on 60% of the UK’s exports to the EU. It says that these include increased prices of 65% for beef, 53% for lamb and 10% for cars. The Government must have estimated the total value extra of British exports regarding price increases. What are they for those businesses exporting to the EU?

[Lord Callanan]

We have been very open about the fact that some of the sectors the noble Lord mentions face very real challenges due to the EU’s protectionist nature and the imposition of tariffs. We stand ready to help those sectors in a no-deal scenario and we have interventions ready to mitigate the worst effects of tariffs in those sectors.

Brexit: No-deal Tariff Schedules

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Monday 7th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Lord for his comments. He will understand my difficulty as I cannot comment on a specific date for the announcement, but it will be made shortly.

On his question about SIs, there will be one made affirmative SI and 10 made negative SIs to implement the tariff schedules. We will introduce them as soon as possible following the tariff announcement, which, as he will know, is market sensitive. We expect to liberalise roughly 87% of tariff lines and that tariffs will be applied to roughly 13%. We do not expect to have significant changes from the previously announced regime from March. As always in these things, there is the difficulty of getting a balance between the interests of consumers and the interests of producers.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

The Minister repeated the estimates from March of how this would impact British business. I remind the House of how the business community described those figures. The CBI described them as a “sledgehammer to our economy”, and said that they show,

“everything that is wrong with a no-deal scenario”,

and that there had been no input from businesses. The Federation of Small Businesses described them as “undercutting”. When I took the textile firms that I used to represent in my former constituency through what the implications would be, they described them as devastating for the remainder of that sector.

If these measures are a “contingency”—as the former Business Secretary described them to the BEIS Committee in the Commons when it asked him about them in March—rather than anything definite, what consultation has there been with the business community? If the figures have not changed, as the Minister indicated, then we can assume that there will be no changes, so we would start to feel their dramatic impact almost immediately if there is a no-deal scenario.

Secondly, the Minister will recall that these “contingency measures”, as they were called then, were published alongside what would have been the emergency measures for the Northern Ireland border, because we cannot have this tariff regime in place without mechanisms for what would be our land border with the European Union. Can the Minister be very clear: would the contingency arrangements covering the Northern Ireland border that the Government also published in March be implemented in a no-deal scenario?

Finally, the Minister rather glibly said “shortly”. If this measure is put in place, it will be because there has been no deal. That could be in a little more than 10 days in which Parliament can consider the implications of the next European Council. If businesses are not to see a repeat of the lack of input that they described in March, will the Government at least publish what the responses from the business community have been if we are to take the Government at their word that it has been consulted?

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Lord for his questions. I genuinely would like to be helpful, but I cannot go further than to say that the announcement will be made shortly. We have been responsive to business concerns. We have been listening to businesses and sectors since the original announcement, but, as I said in response to the first question, there is always a balance to be struck between the benefits for consumers and for industries that rely on imports for their productivity and domestic producers. These are difficult decisions; I am not hiding that. I did not say that there would be no changes; I said that there would be no significant changes. I can confirm that we will not be implementing these tariffs on the Northern Ireland border.

Extension of Article 50

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We always endeavour to be as transparent as possible with regard to these matters, while of course still preserving the confidentiality of the negotiations.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

In the light of the Supreme Court judgment, and in the light of the Minister’s Answer, will he allay the fears that there may be multiple letters or letters signed by officials and not the Prime Minister, or other ways in which the Government may seek not to abide by the spirit of the letter of the law? There is nothing preventing the Government now publishing a statement as to how they would abide by the law and its mechanisms. Will the Government do that?

[Lord Callanan]

No matter how many times noble Lords wish to press me on this, I am afraid I have given the answer that I am going to give. We will of course abide by the law of the land; we are a law-abiding Government. Democracy in this country rests on adherence to the rule of law and we will abide by it.

Brexit Readiness and Operation Yellowhammer

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We will of course do our level best to make sure that the flow at the border does not result in any undue delays. There is a considerable amount of effort going into ensuring that, and there are appropriate plans in place to help industrial sectors and businesses that are adversely impacted by any of these effects. These are all contingency plans and we hope that none of them will come into operation. All the work we are doing is designed to make sure that there is a smooth flow of trade at the border and that none of the producers in north-west Wales will have cause for concern.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the equivocal position of the Minister on standards, which he laid out this afternoon, is in direct contrast with resolutions of this House when we amended the Trade Bill with regards to standards. That Trade Bill is no longer a casualty of the illegal Prorogation, so will the Minister commit that the Bill, and the amendments of this House, will now be heard by the other place so that we are able to resolve this issue? During that Bill, we looked at what were then emergency measures for the Northern Ireland border and a tariff regime published in March. After the horror of the security and intelligence services of Northern Ireland, and business sectors, at the emergency tariff regime, the Government said that it was merely a consultation. We have had no further information about the results of that so-called consultation. Businesses across this country—in Northern Ireland and the UK—need this information, so when will the Government publish it?

[Lord Callanan]

With regard to his first question, the noble Lord knows very well that I cannot commit to promising what might happen in another place. However, let me repeat the assurances I gave earlier: we have all necessary legislation in place. There is still some secondary legislation to be tabled, which we will do in due course, to ensure that our statute book is prepared and ready, including tariffs schedules, in time for exit on 31 October.

Brexit: No-deal Preparations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Wednesday 20th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

No, I do not agree with the noble Lord. This House has resolved against no deal, as has the House of Commons, but even I am getting bored of hearing myself repeat that that does not change the legal default. I do not believe that there is a majority in the House of Commons to revoke Article 50, and this Government certainly will not do so.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I have received the information that businesses have received and to which the Minister referred. The information from HMRC issued this morning at 8.33 am states that at 11 pm on 29 March 2019 the UK will no longer be a member of the EU. This is the basis on which businesses are asked to be prepared. The very first thing that HMRC asks businesses to have, which is necessary for them to continuing trading the day after, is an economic operator registration and identification number. The most recent official figures from the Government suggested that only one-sixth of British businesses had that number. Will the Minister update us on the current level of preparedness of British businesses? If the position is not that 100% of British businesses have that registration, if we crash out next Friday, not all British businesses will be capable of trading the day after.

[Lord Callanan]

I do not have the up-to-date figures in front of me, but my information is that the uptake of these ERO numbers, as they are known, has increased markedly in recent days. This applies only to businesses that would need them, which exported only to the EU and did not already export outside it. I do not have the up-to-date figures, but I know there has been a sharp uptake in applications and the granting thereof.

Brexit: Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Wednesday 9th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I am grateful to the noble Lord.

There will be further legislation to implement this deal—the withdrawal agreement Bill—and then a future relationship deal to be scrutinised, shaped and signed. Throughout this, we will continue to work closely with both Houses and their Select Committees.

As my right honourable friend the Secretary of State confirmed in the other place earlier today, we will accept the amendment made by the honourable Member for East Devon to give Parliament a vote on whether to seek to extend the implementation period or to allow the possibility of the backstop coming into effect.

During the three upcoming days of debate, noble Lords will examine a withdrawal agreement that will ensure our smooth and orderly departure on 29 March and, tied to this agreement, a political declaration on an ambitious future partnership that is in our national interest.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

Before the Minister concludes his reflections on contributions from the previous debate, perhaps he can assist those who will take part in this one, given the parliamentary rules. A Written Statement made in the other place today by Mr Lidington says that there will be,

“a strong role for Stormont before the backstop could be triggered”.

It is two years to the day since Martin McGuinness resigned, triggering the cessation of the Northern Ireland Assembly. For those who will contribute to this debate, can the Minister be very specific about what the role is intended to be for an institution that does not exist but which would effectively have a veto over a key part of what he has just outlined to the House?

[Lord Callanan]

The Stormont Assembly does exist; it is just not sitting at the moment. [Laughter.] Noble Lords laugh, but this is an important matter. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is working day and night to try to get the Assembly restored, because that is the proper place for it. We hope that it will be, but, obviously, if it does not sit then it cannot have a role. I set out in the paper released earlier today the guarantees that we are giving to the Stormont Assembly.

This is a deal which honours the integrity of our United Kingdom. It delivers on the referendum result, and it delivers Brexit for the people of the United Kingdom. I look forward to listening to the debate and, in closing, I commend the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration to the House.

Brexit: No Deal

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Tuesday 11th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I do not want to go into the specifics of negotiations at the moment, but we are negotiating hard. Clearly, customs is an outstanding area where we need to reach agreement with the European Union. We are looking for pragmatic, sensible solutions.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Government’s papers on preparing for a no-deal scenario stated that to avoid any disruption in trade, all existing trade agreements made under the aegis of the EU will have to be translated into UK law on exit day. Liam Fox said that a second after midnight next March, they will all be ready. Is that still the Government’s position?

[Lord Callanan]

The Government’s position is exactly what the Secretary of State for International Trade said.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Purvis of Tweed

Report: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 30th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

The Minister is making his case by asking for clarification on what the question would be for ratifying the agreement. I ask the Government, however, for the same clarity: what will the question be in the Government’s Motion on a meaningful vote in the House of Commons?

[Lord Callanan]

I outlined what the Motion would be last time: it would be to accept the deal or not to accept the deal. No simpler question can be asked.

I am grateful to noble Lords for allowing me to present the clear government position again. I ask the noble Lord, possibly without much hint of success, to withdraw his amendment. He will not be surprised to know that this is not a subject on which we will be reflecting further before Third Reading.