COP 26

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 28th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I have not seen the article to which the noble Baroness refers. It will probably come as a shock to her that I am not responsible for New Mexico; that is part of the United States’ commitment. All we can be responsible for are our own emissions and our own policies. We are striving to reduce our fossil fuel production and use in the UK, but it is a gradual phase-out. Rather than using imported LNG from the likes of the areas she mentioned, it makes more sense to use our own domestic production during that transition period.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, do the Government consult with any of the many serious scientists who say that net zero is a colossal mistake?

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

European Union: Trading Arrangements

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 30th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to offer the European Union a new treaty, subject to World Trade Organization jurisdiction, which would continue the United Kingdom’s existing trading arrangements with the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister’s deal set out in the political declaration the framework for a comprehensive and ambitious free trade agreement with the EU. We will of course leave the EU tomorrow, and we will then begin discussions on securing a new relationship.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, but I would have thought that the Government may need something like this if the going gets rough in the forthcoming trade negotiations. For the record, will the Government confirm their recent Written Answer saying that, if we end up trading on normal WTO terms, EU exporters will pay us some us some £14 billion per annum in new tariffs whereas ours will pay Brussels only some £6 billion —an annual profit to us of some £8 billion per annum? Would this offer not therefore be generous to the EU and, if accepted, get rid of the Irish border problem, the need for much of Operation Yellowhammer and masses of lengthy trade negotiations? Would that not be cheap at the price?

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Lord for his interest in these matters, but the whole point of a free trade agreement is that it is an improvement on WTO terms. The reason that many nations around the world want to adopt them is that people do not want to get into paying tariffs and quotas, which are an impediment to free trade. We are confident, given the agreement and the political declaration, that we can reach an ambitious free trade agreement with the EU before the end of the implementation period, and that is exactly what we will be doing.

No-deal Update

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Tuesday 3rd September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We are aware of the challenges that exist for the agricultural sector. I confirmed in a response to the noble Baroness earlier that CAP payments will continue, but we are considering what other interventions need to be made to support the farming sector at what will be a difficult time.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, does the Minister recall his recent Written Answer to me saying that if we end up trading on normal WTO terms, EU exporters will pay us some £14 billion per annum in new tariffs while our exporters will pay Brussels some £6 billion in new tariffs, making us an annual profit of £8 billion? Given the mess we are in, why do the Government not offer the EU a completely new deal in the shape of a very short treaty under the WTO? It could continue our free trade together exactly as now, thus getting rid of the Irish border problem and all the paraphernalia of Operation Yellowhammer. Would that not be a generous offer that even Brussels might find hard to refuse?

[Lord Callanan]

I always like questions from the noble Lord; they offer a degree of simplicity which perhaps does not always exist in real life.

EU: Law-making Process

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 1st July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to promote national awareness of the European Union law-making process, in particular the roles and powers of (1) the European Commission, (2) COREPER, (3) the Council of Ministers, (4) the European Court of Justice, and (5) the European Parliament.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have no plans to promote national awareness of the EU legislative process. However, information regarding the EU law-making process is in the public domain. The GOV.UK website, the Parliament’s website and the EU Commission website are just some of the many sources that explain the role of the EU institutions in the legislative process.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer to this Question, which I tabled because I cannot find anyone normal who has heard of COREPER and thus understands the process which destroys our democracy.

Would it not help the Government’s Brexit strategy if more people knew that only the unelected Commission can propose new laws, upon which national interests are then negotiated in the unelected Committee of Permanent Representatives, and which are then signed off in the Council, all behind closed doors, with nothing that this Parliament can do about it—

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

—and that the Commission then becomes the executive for all EU law, subject only to the Europhile Court of Justice in Luxembourg, against which there is no appeal?

Second question, my Lords: would it not also help if more people knew that we are nearly always outvoted in the Council, and that this process has made over 20,000 of our laws since 1972, or more than one a day?

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Lord for his many follow-up questions. In relation to the first, I suppose that having heard of COREPER makes me abnormal, so I apologise; I see the Opposition agreeing with that. I am not sure what the noble Lord is saying here. If he is saying to us that UKIP now thinks it a good idea for us to spend public money on an exercise educating the public on EU legislative processes, I suggest that that would be an unusual position for UKIP to take.

Brexit: Free Trade Agreement

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Tuesday 14th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the best way to secure certainty for UK and EU businesses and citizens is to leave the EU in an orderly fashion with a deal. Without the withdrawal agreement, we will not benefit from the smooth and orderly exit that the implementation period delivers. The citizens’ rights agreement offers reciprocal protections for EU and UK citizens. EU citizens resident in the UK can safeguard their residency rights now by applying to the EU settlement scheme.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, which shows that the Government do not really want to leave the European Union at all. Since Brussels has broken clause 1 of Article 50 by not allowing us to regain our complete sovereignty, why do the Government still feel bound by the rest of it, instead of breaking free and making this sort of offer to the real people of Europe, who are our friends? Why do the Government want our laws to go on being proposed in secret by the unelected Commission, negotiated secretly in the unelected Committee of Permanent Representatives—COREPER —and passed behind closed doors in the Council of Ministers, with this Parliament entirely powerless throughout? Why do the Government want the British people to continue in such servitude to the corrupt octopus in Brussels?

[Lord Callanan]

The premise of the noble Lord’s question is wrong. The Government want to leave the EU. We are doing our best to deliver a deal that will enable us to leave the EU in a smooth and orderly fashion.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 24th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, following the decision of the Court of Justice of the European Union that the United Kingdom can unilaterally withdraw from clauses 2 to 5 of Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, whether they will cease Brexit negotiations through the European Commission and offer European Union citizens through the Council of Ministers continuing (1) free trade under the World Trade Organization, (2) reciprocal residence for a period to be agreed, and (3) security co-operation, before they agree any financial settlement on the United Kingdom’s departure from the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the CJEU in the case of Wightman held that a member state can unilaterally revoke its notice to withdraw under Article 50. Such a revocation must be unequivocal and unconditional. However, let me be clear that, regardless, the Government’s policy has not changed, and we will not revoke the Article 50 notice. A clear majority of the electorate voted to leave the EU, and we have to respect that result.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply, but I would have thought that the Government would welcome this attempt at fresh thinking with rather more enthusiasm, because the Commission is clearly the enemy of our successful Brexit, while the real people of Europe should remain our friends.

First, will the noble Lord confirm that, since 1998, the UK has unilaterally withdrawn from 52 treaties and explain why we cannot resile from these clauses in Article 50?

Secondly, does he agree that continuing reciprocal residence and free trade are in the interests of the people of Europe and of our country, and that continuing free trade would also get rid of the Irish border problem?

In short, whose side are the Government on—the Eurocrats or the people of Europe?

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Lord for his questions, although it is a slight surprise to hear from him a suggestion that we should revoke Article 50— indeed, not all of Article 50 but just part of it. I am afraid that that does not work. The reality is that the EU has said that the negotiating party is the European Commission. That is who we are conducting the negotiations with, but the noble Lord will be pleased to hear that we are leaving the European Union.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister really think that cheap brandy from Australia is better than French brandy? While he is at it, does he agree that,

“free trade under the World Trade Organisation”,

as proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, would mean a hard border on the island of Ireland under WTO rules and under EU rules?

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, what I love about these Question Time sessions is that, no matter how much preparation you do, you never cover where the questions could go. I have to say that I have done no preparatory work whatsoever on the quality of different brandies from across the world and whether Wetherspoons should purchase them. I can reassure the noble Lord that we are totally committed to having no border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

Brexit: Article 50

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 29th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will (1) withdraw their notice under clauses 2 to 5 of Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, and (2) offer through the Council of Ministers continuing free trade under the World Trade Organisation, and residence and security to European Union citizens, before agreeing any financial settlement in the Brexit negotiations.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the clear position of the Government is that our notice under Article 50 will not be withdrawn. We will be leaving the EU on 29 March 2019, and are negotiating to that timeline. We remain on track to deliver the withdrawal agreement and the future framework, ensuring that there is clarity about the terms of our exit and our shared ambition for the future relationship.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply, which suggests that the Government have not understood the superior strength of our hand in Brussels, or how to play it.

Are the Government aware that many states, including the United Kingdom, have unilaterally left international treaties some 225 times since 1945? So why do we feel bound by these clauses of Article 50, when they are being used against us?

Can the Government not even see that the—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

Why do we not try to talk to the real people of Europe, who would benefit far more from the offers in this Question than would we?

[Lord Callanan]

That is a slightly strange question from the noble Lord, because of course if we withdrew our notice under Article 50 we would remain members of the EU—which the last time I looked at it, was not the policy of his party. Therefore his other options do not really hold water. We do not unilaterally abrogate treaties in this country. We are a law-abiding nation, we abide by our legal agreements and commitments; and the proper and correct legal way to withdraw from the EU is under Article 50, and that is the process that we are following.

Brexit Transition: European Parliament Membership

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 7th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

No, we have not agreed to that because we are leaving on 30 March 2019.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the UK has been outvoted on all 77 laws that we have opposed in the Council in the last 20 years? We have been outvoted more than any other country in the so-called Parliament. Does this Question not make the fundamental mistake of suggesting that there is any democratic accountability in the EU, which it is designed to expunge?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord will no doubt be very happy that we are leaving on 30 March 2019.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 6th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The White paper will be published when it is ready.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, when will the Government see that they hold all the best cards in these negotiations? Why do they not offer Brussels continuing security, mutual residence and free trade—all of which are much more in the interests of the real people of Europe than they are of ours—and then tell the Eurocrats how much cash we will give their failing project, which will depend on how they have behaved with all of the above? Why should that take more than a month?

[Lord Callanan]

As the noble Lord is aware, we have offered the EU unconditional security guarantees, as is right and proper, and we are negotiating in good faith to achieve the free-trade relationship that he talked about.

Brexit: British Citizens

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 29th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

It depends on what the Labour Party’s policy is for this week, but if the six tests are the policy for this week, of course we will try to reach a Brexit deal that works for everyone, is good for jobs, for British industry and for people, and respects the result of the referendum.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the Eurocrats turned down our offer of mutual residence before Christmas 2016? Is this not yet another example of the Eurocrats looking after their own interests and the survival of their failing project, and putting it in front of the interests of the people of Europe? There are 4 million of them living here and only 1.2 million of us living there.

[Lord Callanan]

I think there are 3 million EU citizens here in the UK. I am not sure it is helpful to go back through the history of who offered what. We are delighted that we have reached a deal whereby EU citizens’ rights in this country are granted, which is where we always wanted to be, and—a very important matter—UK citizens living in other EU countries have their rights guaranteed as well. We are happy to have agreed this issue. We want to provide safety and security for those citizens in future, and I am sure the House will endorse that.

Brexit: EU Customs Union

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 7th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord will be aware that the Cabinet meets once a week and that sub-committees regularly consider all aspects of government policy. This is a particularly important aspect of government policy, so we will want to go through all the options in great detail

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, are the Government aware of the Civitas research which shows that, if the Eurocrats force us to trade on World Trade Organization terms, EU exporters will pay us tariffs of some £13 billion a year, while ours will pay them only some £5 billion a year—a nice little profit to us of some £8 billion? So would it not be generous of us to offer to leave our free trade just as it is, while taking back our law, borders, fishing, agriculture and sovereignty generally?

[Lord Callanan]

I am sure that the noble Lord is a believer in free trade. Nobody on either side wants to get into paying tariffs. We want a bold and ambitious economic partnership, as the Prime Minister has made clear.

Brexit: Equalities Impact Assessment

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 21st December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I assure the noble Lord that Brexit will go ahead. We are committed to it and will be leaving the EU in March 2019. None of that will impact on our membership of the Council of Europe.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

Can the Minister explain why the Liberal Democrats feel that we need lessons in equality from the European Union, which is, after all, one of the most anti-democratic outfits on the planet?

[Lord Callanan]

I am afraid that of all the difficult questions I get asked in this House, asking me to explain the policies of the Liberal Democrats is an impossible one.

Brexit: EU Citizenship

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We are content to listen to proposals on this; we are not ruling it out. The problem is, as the noble Lord will know very well, that you can only be an EU citizen if you are the citizen of an EU member state. To get what he wants would involve changing treaties—and he will know how difficult that is in the European Union. The other side has shown no interest whatever in doing it. I am aware of the proposals from the European Parliament, and we will look at any proposals, but our EU negotiating partners so far have not expressed any interest in it. It would be a long, difficult and complicated process and, I suspect, would set a precedent that they do not wish to set.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, can the Government confirm that before last Christmas, we offered continuing residence to the 3.5 million EU citizens living here if our 1.2 million people living there also got it? The Eurocrats refused the offer, even having the nerve to accuse us of using their people as bargaining chips. Is this not further proof that Herr Juncker and Co. are interested only in keeping their failing project afloat, however much it damages the real people of Europe?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord makes an important point, but it is not that helpful to look back over what might have happened in the past: best now to celebrate the excellent achievements that we have gained in reaching agreements last week, whereby EU citizens in the UK will have their rights guaranteed and vice versa.

European Union

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 6th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I have seen President Macron’s speech. He made some interesting proposals on how the EU should develop. I am sure that we will want to look closely at those and that we will consider them alongside contributions from leaders of other member states.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord to his new position and ask him to forgive me if I ask a question that I have asked the Government many times without getting a satisfactory answer. What is now the point of the European Union? If our departure hastened its demise, would that not be good for Europe’s democracies, which could collaborate and trade freely together without its malign, expensive and destructive self-interest?

[Lord Callanan]

I think that what happens to the European Union after we leave is a matter for the remaining member states to determine.