Paying Polluters: UN Report

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Kamall

Monday 22nd April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sure it would, but we are responsible for what clauses we agree to in the UK. We always protect our right to regulate, and we seek not to take actions that are arbitrary or discriminatory against foreign companies. Ultimately, it is a question of what clauses Colombia agrees to, what criteria it uses and how it will be arbitrated, so it is a difficult question to answer.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My noble friend will be aware that when we were both in the European Parliament we used to debate the issue of ISDS, and that one of the reasons that ISDS was asked for by investors was to ensure they had confidence, particularly when there was no confidence in the local legal system. The other side of that is that big companies were perceived to get preferential treatment in being able to go to the ISDS process, rather than through the legal system. We have to look at the trade-offs, and maybe one of the things that my noble friend’s department could look at is the impact of not including ISDS agreements and how much that would affect outward or inward investment in these countries.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a powerful point; of course, it works both ways. We want to protect the interests of UK companies, which sometimes operate in very hostile, non-democratic countries with unclear or murky legal systems. By the same token, we need billions of pounds of investment into the UK—we are the top European destination for inward investment—to help us in our energy and climate change transition, so it is important as well that we demonstrate that we are liberal and open to companies investing here in the UK. These clauses help to deliver that, but they need to be structured in the right manner, transparent and liberal.

Climate Change: Phasing Out Fossil Fuels

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Kamall

Wednesday 6th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Where are the Greens when you want them? It occurred to me that a few hundred people were doing all the important negotiations, while the other 30,000 were talking about them. I will let the noble Lord draw his own conclusions on that.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I am sure my noble friend the Minister will agree that we cannot just stop fossil fuels at the moment if we want to have a modern, digital economy with high-speed electric rail. How long do the Government envisage the continuous use of fossil fuels as we transition to a fully net-zero economy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an extremely good point. We are in a transition, so our use of fossil fuels will clearly decline. Even the Climate Change Committee has recognised that, in a net-zero scenario, we may still use about 20% of the quantities of gas that we use now—albeit abated with carbon capture, usage and storage. Fossil fuels will still have a use, but we need to treat them responsibly and to slowly phase out their use as we transition to net zero. My noble friend makes an important point that we should bear in mind.

Biomass Strategy 2023: Cross Sectoral Sustainability Framework

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Kamall

Wednesday 15th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, so far my noble friend the Minister has talked a lot about wood pellets and other things, but can he enlighten us on the Government’s strategy on third and fourth generation biomass and how they intend to encourage domestic producers in those two areas?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not sure I know what third and fourth generation biomass is. I will have to have a cup of coffee with noble Lords afterwards and we can have a chat about it.

Decarbonisation

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Kamall

Thursday 13th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I am slightly disappointed by the tone of the question. We are already showing decisive leadership: we are one of the only countries in the world to already have green procurement strategies for major public procurement. This is a complicated area, as has been illustrated by the questions from the noble Lord’s own Benches. We need to make sure that we get it right and do not disadvantage British industries or drive up the cost for consumers.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, while one of the advantages of carbon border adjustment measures and other green taxes is that they tax negative externalities, hopefully to encourage better green policies, one of the downsides is obviously that that might then feed into the cost of production and that cost is then passed on to consumers. One concern for many people about green policies, even though they support them, is that when we introduce green taxes, they are often not fiscally neutral, so people end up paying more. Have the Government looked at how they can balance these challenges to make sure that, when a green tax is introduced, tax is removed elsewhere to encourage better behaviour and have a positive outcome for green policies?

Carbon Budgets: Methane Flaring

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Kamall

Thursday 9th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I have checked figures with officials from the last time the noble Baroness asked me that question, and I am confident in the information that I have been given and the UK statistics. The noble Baroness shakes her head, but the figures are probably more reliable than some of her scientists.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

Can my noble friend the Minister tell us what the Government are doing to encourage more use of landfill gas for domestic and commercial energy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a good point, and I touched on it in an earlier answer. We want to try to trap as much of this gas as possible because it is a valuable resource. As I mentioned, the green gas support scheme is a system that uses a gas levy to support anaerobic digesters across the country to take some of the waste food and organic matter that can be turned into useful gas that is fed into the gas main.

Hospitality Industry

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Kamall

Tuesday 24th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It is not necessarily the case that the industry is contracting: this year, revenues were ahead of where they were before the pandemic. There are some businesses closing and others are opening, and employment is up since before the pandemic.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, a few noble Lords have referred to the impact of Brexit. Can my noble friend the Minister assure us that, when it comes to future immigration policy, whether for the hospitality sector or others, we look not only to white Europe but to non-white, non-Europe, to make sure that we no longer have a racist immigration policy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. We need to have a fair and balanced immigration policy, treating all parts of the world equally.

Renewable Energy: Generation Licences

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Kamall

Tuesday 13th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There are of course no subsidies given to fossil fuel generation. In fact, it is the opposite: they are paying into the system record levels of taxation. This is a gradual transition. To all those who want to get rid of fossil fuels, I say great, but 80% of our heating is gas heating at the moment; are we going to turn off people’s gas boilers overnight? I suspect that the answer to the noble Baroness’s question is no. Of course we want to roll out renewable generation, which is what we are doing, but it is intermittent, as the question from my noble friend Lord Forsyth intimated earlier. We need back-up generation for that; that could take a number of different forms, and nuclear is one of the possible options. In the short term, as we move to a more renewable system, we will need fossil fuel generation.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, I want to ask my noble friend the Minister about the long-term thinking in the department. Looking at the developments in technology, particularly in storage capacity and micro- generation, might there be a day when there really is no incentive for people to feed into a grid, and they can generate all their energy locally? What sort of long- term thinking has there been on the impact on the grid of more local generation and storage?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. There will be, and has been, an increasing amount of microgeneration. I am told by the suppliers that there are record demands at the moment for things such as solar panels and PV generation, as people respond to high electricity costs. Many people will want to install systems that will save them money in the long term. Of course, the higher electricity prices are, then the pay-back period for microgeneration schemes becomes less and less. It comes down to the question that was asked earlier about the reconfiguration of the grid. There would be much more small-scale generation rather than the big node operators that we are used to. A considerable investment is going into the grid to bring that about. We also have schemes such as smart metres; 50% of the country is now connected to a smart meter, and they enable better charging regimes, demand-management schemes, et cetera, all of which will contribute to what the noble Lord suggests.

Government Departments: Communication with Industry and Commerce

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Kamall

Monday 14th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his helpful question. The message we seek to convey is that the City of London is an important component of the UK financial infrastructure. It makes an important contribution to the UK economy. Proportionate regulation is vital to this sector, but we continue to encourage and support it.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, while we welcome better communications between government and businesses, how aware are the Government of the concept of rent-seeking, in which businesses may ask for measures that are beneficial to them but detrimental to other sectors?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. We had a lot of experience of this in the European Parliament, as a lot of businesses would lobby for regulation that was favourable to them and would perhaps encourage regulation that was unfavourable to their competitors. We have to be careful to make sure that such practices are not widespread. It is important that we continue to engage with businesses. As I said earlier, we will not always agree, but we need to listen to what they say.