Cement Industry: Carbon Dioxide

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the Liberal Democrats for agreeing with something I have said, for a change; that is a welcome departure from normal practice. I agree with the noble Lord, and as I said, this is a difficult sector to decarbonise. We are working with it and having regular meetings. There are 10 cement plants in the UK, only one of which is situated in an existing cluster. Of course, we are considering expressions of interest from additional clusters at the moment. I would not want to predict that process. Whatever happens, CCUS will clearly be a key technology for many cement plants. We have funded a number of feasibility projects with existing suppliers and will continue to work with them.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, what are the Government doing to encourage alternative building methods that do not need cement, or need much smaller volumes of cement? That would help with the carbon issue quite dramatically.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a good point. We are exploring the role that demand-side policies could play in creating demand for low-carbon cement, or indeed less demand for cement. We recently concluded a consultation which sought feedback on proposals for low-carbon standards, and we will continue to pursue that.

Drax Biomass Power Station

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Monday 3rd July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Again, the noble Baroness is jumping to conclusions before the investigation has proceeded. Based on the evidence reviewed to date, Ofgem has not established any non-compliance with the scheme. But the investigation is continuing and I would caution noble Lords to wait for the outcome from the independent regulator.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, transporting this woodchip from a forest somewhere in North America by truck or train, loading it on to a container ship, taking it to the Mersey, taking it across the Pennines in another train and then discharging it into Drax—how can that possibly be green?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It is because the sustainability criteria say that the biomass has to come from sustainable sources. Most of it is by-product from normal sustainable commercial forests.

Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Committee stage
Thursday 9th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not an expert in the rail industry but my understanding is that most of the train operating companies are owned by the taxpayer now through various takeovers, so in my view the Secretary of State has a duty to run the rail services. Taxpayers are very generous in the support they provide to the rail industry, and trade unions sometimes do not appreciate how much it is subsidised. In my view the Secretary of State has a right to intervene on behalf of the travelling public and the taxpayer. The legal position—the noble Lord, Lord Collins, might think it is a mantra—is that there is no legal obligation in the Bill on employers to utilise a minimum service level if one has been set in their area.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

The Minister’s answers have been interesting but they have concentrated about 90% on the railways, apart from a little dabble into the bus sector with the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson.

Do we take it that Ministers are not really interested in the issues listed in Amendment 10:

“aviation services, airline services, airport services … car delivery services, road haulage services, parcel delivery services”—

even trams—and

“rail engineering ferry and waterway services”?

Are the Government not concerned about them? Are they not even going to try to come up with minimum service arrangements for them? Is it just really about the railway? I think that is what the Minister is saying.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sorry if the noble Lord is disappointed. I answered the questions that were asked of me and most of them were about rail services. That is what we have issued the consultation on, which is why I was answering the questions. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, asked me about bus services so I answered that question. I do not know how the noble Lord computes that we are somehow uninterested in other sectors. This legislation will specify transport services as an appropriate power for the Secretary of State to designate minimum service levels for, but the only one that we have issued on transport services at the moment is on passenger rail. That does not mean we are not interested in other transport services.

Construction Contracts (England) Exclusion Order 2022

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Monday 13th June 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their valuable contributions to the debate. Let me start by emphasising, as I did initially, that this exclusion order is very narrow in scope. It is well defined to ensure that it is used only for the intended and very specific contracts that I referred to. These are the two specific construction contracts that are used to deliver the direct procurement for customers model for high-value infrastructure assets in the regulated water and sewerage sector.

Let me also emphasise that the creation of an exclusion under this Act is very much an exception and not the rule. DPC is a competitive delivery model focused on accelerating the delivery of strategic infrastructure in this particular sector. The current absence of an exclusion for these specific contracts threatens the viability of DPC and the very great benefits it could bring to consumers. That position has been confirmed through consultations with appropriate stakeholders. That is the reason the Government have chosen to use the powers conferred on them to make exclusions from the provisions of the construction Act in this particular, limited, isolated case.

I shall now deal with the questions I was asked. First, to my noble friend Lady McIntosh: SUDS are not currently associated with the schemes being developed but may be, in the future, if they are of sufficient size to be required.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, asked for details of the projects. The first project is United Utilities Water’s Haweswater aqueduct resilience programme, which I am sure the noble Lord is very familiar with. It is to replace the existing Haweswater aqueduct, which is at risk of failing, which currently transfers water from the Lake District to north-west England, especially Manchester. The second English project is sponsored by Southern Water, and it is to deliver water to the south-east of England. United Utilities Water’s Haweswater aqueduct resilience programme, a very large project, will replace parts of the Haweswater aqueduct, which brings water to Cumbria and Lancashire. Southern Water’s Hampshire water transfer and water recycling project is required to ensure supplies to the Hampshire region. It is able to meet, apparently, one-in-500-year droughts. That is the second scheme I referred to.

In response to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, as I emphasised again, the exclusion order is narrow in scope, and it is well defined to ensure that it is used for these particular, intended contracts only—the two specific construction contracts that are used to deliver the DPC procurement model for high-value infrastructure assets. Those entering into the procurement mechanism will, of course, have full knowledge of the terms including that payments during the construction phase will be made at specified intervals and that payments made through the unitary charge will commence only once the asset is capable of operating. Importantly, alternative dispute resolution mechanisms will also be included within the CAP contracts. All remaining construction contracts through the supply chain of the DPC projects—and, let me emphasise, in particular those appertaining to SMEs—would, of course, remain subject to all the relevant provisions within the construction Act.

In response to the question from the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, this instrument is limited—

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister, but before he moves on, could he explain why the regulator, or the Government, thinks these very large contracts should be treated separately and differently, rather than having several smaller ones, as it may be, where the risk of things going wrong might be lower?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I said, these are specific to a unique procurement model which is being trialled and which we think will be appropriate in the water and sewerage sector. We therefore think it appropriate to exempt these particular, very large contracts to enable the model which effectively, as far as the companies are concerned, delivers the construction, management, maintenance, et cetera of very large construction projects. It is a unique procurement mechanism which we think has the potential to benefit customers in the future, so in this very limited case it was deemed appropriate by the Secretary of State to exempt them from the regulations.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Ultimately, of course, previous contracts have delivered and been successful, but we think that a different model, involving more competition, could deliver better value for consumers, which is why we have produced these regulations. I therefore commend them to the Committee.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord again. Following his last comment—

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

The noble Lord mentioned Southern Water as an example of the need for competition, and I am sure he is right about the need for competition—but who is competing? Is Southern Water competing against somebody else or are two contractors that are reporting to Southern Water, as the principal, competing? How does it work?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I will write to the noble Lord if my answer is not correct, but my understanding is that Southern Water is the procurer and will be regulated by Ofwat within the overall monopoly structure of the water industry. This is why strict regulation and price controls are imposed on water companies. The idea is that a company will be able to involve competition in selecting contractors for the delivery of particular projects. So the company will be the procurer, albeit under the overall model regulated by Ofwat.

Lithium Ion Batteries: Fire Safety Standards

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Thursday 3rd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the product safety regulatory framework places obligations on manufacturers to ensure the safety of consumer goods, including the batteries used to power them. In short, the law requires that batteries used in such products must be inherently safe, regardless of where they are used, charged or stored. To support them, manufacturers may choose to apply standard EN 62133-2, which specifies requirements and safety tests for the safe operation of portable, sealed secondary lithium cells and batteries.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. I have a different EN number, which I will not bore the House with. He will be aware of a number of fires allegedly caused by lithium ion batteries in cars, on bikes and on scooters, which have caused house fires and one on an Underground train. One manufacturer told me that

“unless we can prove that a product has caused serious accident or injuries, there is no priority from Trading Standards to do any pro-active checks”.

Is not the answer to have proactive checks, as I believe they do in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany, for about 10 years to prevent these illegal imports causing more fires, allowing the development of lithium ion batteries to continue safely?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord highlights an important point. I am devastated that our EN numbers do not match, but I would be happy to compare them afterwards if the noble Lord wishes. It is vital that we carry out checks on illegally imported products; the fire that he referred to was caused by something not in conformity with UK standards. We carry out checks on a risk-based approach where required.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not have figures for the precise number of battery recycling plants in the UK. I am aware of some developments in that field, but I do not have the precise numbers. The noble Baroness makes an important point: that we need to ensure end-to-end recycling and reuse.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his earlier response to me, but he will be aware that in the last month two train companies have banned electric bikes and scooters being taken on to their trains. That has now been withdrawn, but it was done because London Fire Brigade’s press release was a bit unclear about the risk. This goes back to the lack of a firm specification for and firm enforcement of the quality of batteries so that there is no misunderstanding. It has upset a lot of people.

Subsidy Control Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Committee stage
Wednesday 9th February 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I intervene briefly to strongly support my noble friend’s amendment and other noble Lords’ comments. One solution that the Minister might be tempted to suggest is to allow them to get it in within a month but add more documentation later. That would be easy.

I refer the Committee to the proposed new rule 98A(7) of the Competition Appeal Tribunal Rules:

“The Tribunal may not extend the time limits provided for in this rule unless it is satisfied that the circumstances are exceptional.”


Probably none of the things that noble Lords mentioned would be classed as exceptional, which confirms that one month is hopelessly short. I very much support three months or even longer, if anyone has a better idea.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble lord, Lord McNicol for this amendment, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, for speaking to it. I also thank the contributions of other noble Lords—and the noble Lords, Lord Fox and Lord Lamont, reflected on this issue during the Monday’s session.

An interested party, which is anyone whose interests are affected by the subsidy, may apply to the Competition Appeal Tribunal for a review of the subsidy within one month of the subsidy’s upload to the transparency database, if there has been a post-award referral to the CMA within one month of that report, or if a pre-action information request has been made within one month of the response to this request. The limit has been set at one month so that we can give legal certainty to public authorities and subsidy beneficiaries as swiftly as possible. It is important to avoid creating such prolonged uncertainty that it acts as a brake on legitimate subsidies.

We must also ensure that interested parties have sufficient time to consider a subsidy before asking the CAT to review it. That is just what this Bill does. An interested party, perhaps a competitor who is thinking of approaching the CAT to review a subsidy, can make a pre-action information request to a public authority. The limitation period is then extended until one month after the public authority has responded. Since the pre-action information request gives the public authority up to 28 days to respond, in practice, the limitation period can run for two or three months after the publication of the subsidy or scheme on this database.

Post Office: Horizon Compensation

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Monday 10th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I start by paying tribute to the work of my noble friend in both this House and the other place in drawing attention to this scandal when many others were not discussing it; he was right to do so, along with many other Members on all sides. I can confirm that, when negotiating compensation for postmasters with overturned convictions, the Post Office will consider claims for financial and consequential losses as well as non-financial losses, such as reputational damage and mental distress. In terms of consistency, each case will necessarily be decided on the particular circumstances of the individual postmaster but, to ensure broad consistency, the Post Office and its legal advisers will seek to agree a consistent approach in assessing the different heads of loss with legal representatives.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Bakewell said in her follow-up question that there had been 732 convictions. From the Minister’s Answer, I get the impression that only 10% of those convicted have actually had their cases heard. Is that correct? When does he see that the whole process will be completed?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a good point but this is in the hands of the court. So far, 72 people have had their convictions overturned. As soon as the others have had their convictions overturned, we will proceed with offering compensation to them as well.

Power Outages: North of England

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Thursday 2nd December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My colleague, Minister Hands, went up to visit the area yesterday, spoke to many people who had been affected and met many of the engineers who have been working around the clock over the past week to restore power. As the noble Lord said, there are a number of lessons that we need to learn from this. It was fairly unprecedented, but of course that is no compensation to the people affected, concentrated in the north of England and Scotland, who have been suffering greatly—I have heard many of their stories myself. We must give any resources or support that we can to the companies concerned. Restoring power is a complicated, technical exercise. We need to ensure that the people doing it, who are very skilled personnel, are working safely and we will want to support them in every possible way.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, this was a very bad series of storms in the north-east. I do not think it is unprecedented, because I recall a similar one in the south-east of England in 1987—some older noble Lords will remember that. It sometimes took weeks for the power to be reconnected. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, said that the answer is to put more power lines underground. Is there not a conflict between the enormous cost of putting power underground and the fact that we do not like cutting trees down? Trees tend to fall on wires, railway lines and other such things. Is there a solution to this, or have we just got to accept that we love our trees, they will knock the wires down occasionally and we just have to accept that there will be delays and congratulate all the people trying to put it right?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I hope we will not just accept it. Balancing the different factors that the noble Lord mentioned, we need to put as many cables underground as possible, but he is right that that is much more expensive than running overhead lines. We need to do what we can to improve the resilience of the system, but I am sure we would meet many objections if the solution was to cut down more trees near power lines.

Oil and Gas Authority: Remit

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Thursday 2nd December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We will go along with our net-zero commitment. I do not know how many times I have to repeat this for the benefit of the Liberal Democrats, but under all of the climate change scenarios, including that towards net zero, we will remain a net importer of oil and gas during that period. The choice that faces us is whether we wish to import them or produce them domestically and gain the tax revenues from that. I really cannot see why this is such a difficult concept for the Liberal Democrats to grasp.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister surely must know that the target of net zero means reduced consumption; whether it is produced in this country or imported, it is still our consumption. How is that compatible with the Oil and Gas Authority’s target of “maximum economic recovery” of oil from the North Sea? Bearing in mind that it takes so long to commission and decommission North Sea oil and gas plants, is it not about time that the Oil and Gas Authority changed its target now to give it time to achieve net-zero carbon when it is due?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I actually agree with the first part of the noble Lord’s question that production from the North Sea is on a declining pathway. Our usage is, of course, on a declining pathway as we transition to net zero.

Competition Act 1998 (Coronavirus) (Public Policy Exclusions) (Revocations) Order 2021

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Monday 1st November 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all those who have contributed to the debate. I especially thank the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, who came along to discuss the subject I thought we were coming here to debate: the revocation of the SI.

As I listened to the speeches of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, I thought there was a sense of déjà vu about them, and of course there was. Perhaps the noble Lord and the noble Baroness will remember that we actually discussed this subject in 2017, when I had the privilege of being a transport Minister: we had a take note debate on remote island communities in England. I hope the noble Lord refreshed his speech before he made it again; I have not looked it up to see whether he has made the same one. So we have been here before and discussed the topic, and I gently suggest to the noble Lord that if he wants to have a debate about ferry services and their role in transport policy, perhaps he might want to go through the channels that would secure that properly rather than trying to shoehorn it into a debate on competition policy and the revocation of a particular SI. I will be very happy to explain to him the subject of his regret Motion—that is, why we revoked the SI. If other noble Lords are not interested in that, at least the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, will be.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for his concern for my welfare and my brief. I can tell the noble Lord that I will be travelling up to COP. In fact, I suppose I should be grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, for detaining me in the House today; looking at some of the transport issues that have occurred to people travelling up to COP in the last two days, maybe I was better off staying here after all. I will be going for the buildings day next week.

To respond to the subject of the debate—I will come to some of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, later—last year, in response to the unprecedented challenge posed by the coronavirus pandemic, the Government responded with unprecedented rapidity to support businesses and people, and to enable a co-ordinated response to coronavirus. As part of the Government’s action, six public policy exclusion orders were made. These orders were intended to disapply elements of UK competition law temporarily in order to help businesses co-ordinate specific activities in certain sectors, and to support lifeline services during a period of disruption related to coronavirus. The Solent maritime crossings order was one such measure.

As the noble Lord is no doubt aware, more than 140,000 people live on the Isle of Wight. Residents rely on essential lifeline services to get access to medical supplies and essential healthcare or to facilitate the journeys of NHS staff, emergency services and other key workers. These services are all supported by ferry operators—I think there are currently three—without which residents would be isolated and with limited resources.

In response to the outbreak, and at the request of the local MP, the Government acted swiftly and suspended competition law temporarily for the Solent ferry operators to ensure that they could co-operate to continue to provide essential transportation despite the effects of lockdown. The order permitted three kinds of agreements between the Solent crossing operators to co-ordinate during the period of disruption: the use of timetables, the routes operated by any Solent operator, and the deployment of labour or facilities.

Of course, such measures are usually prohibited by competition law as in normal times co-ordination of this sort can lead to higher prices, less choice and lower quality of service for consumers. However, given the exceptional circumstances, it was not clear that any of the companies would be able to maintain a service without co-operation, and that therefore, without this order, lifeline services may well have ceased. The measure was therefore an important part of a wider support package to safeguard the vital transport links to the mainland.

In response to the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, I can tell the House that the Government also made available £22.4 million-worth of funding for the Isle of Wight and the Isles of Scilly between April 2020 and April 2021.

Operating together, the Solent maritime crossings order and the financial support scheme enabled the maintenance of lifeline connections to the Isle of Wight. Key services were retained despite temporarily not being economical to run. The Solent ferry operators were altogether able to transport passengers and passenger vehicles representing nearly 50% and 64% of their pre-pandemic baseline. They also saw an increase of 23% in the transportation of commercial vehicles. Without the temporary suspension of competition law and the funding provided, services would likely have stopped running, thus creating significant issues for islanders during the pandemic.

Under the Competition Act, exclusion orders may be applied only to situations where there are exceptional and compelling reasons of public policy. The Solent maritime crossings order was intended to address the effects of coronavirus on the Isle of Wight’s transport system. We were clear when making the order that it would remain in place only until the Secretary of State determined that there was no longer a significant disruption or a threat of significant disruption to the operation of Solent crossings.

I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, that the Government’s decision to revoke the order was made following consultation with the Isle of Wight Council and the ferry operators and with the confidence that the ferry operators were financially secure enough to return to normal services. The response strategy reopened the economy and, with the lifting of restrictions and the vaccine deployment, measures such as the Solent maritime crossings order became unnecessary.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, also asked why the revocations SI does not provide a continuing review of competition issues by the Competition and Markets Authority on these routes. The CMA, as the UK’s independent competition authority, continues to be responsible for monitoring markets and enforcing competition law across the economy. Now that the Solent ferry crossings are back under competition law, they are indeed back under the auspices of the CMA. The CMA has significant powers and expertise to investigate markets and anti-competitive behaviour and to take remedial action where necessary. Complaints of anti-competitive behaviour can be made directly to the CMA. As the noble Lord knows, the Government do not determine which cases the CMA decides to act on.

I will add a note about the wider use of competition law exclusion orders. They have proven to be an effective instrument to provide a safety net—and at times more considerable security and support—to industries which need to collaborate in order to address exceptional circumstances. However, it is not a power that should be or can be used without careful consideration. The Government have recently made use of the instrument again. We temporarily exempted companies operating in the oil industry from the Competition Act for the purpose of sharing information and optimising fuel supply in the event of disruption. Earlier this month, the Secretary of State also announced a temporary exemption for parts of the CO₂ industry to help provide further security of CO₂ supplies and businesses. Finally, we have agreed to make an exclusion order for Premier League broadcasting rights to provide stability for the football pyramid, including for grass-roots football, women’s football and lower league clubs.

In each case, the use of exclusion orders was a proportionate and limited measure informed by the Government’s engagement with industry and intended to give companies a bit of breathing space to resolve the wider issues. However, we should be clear that business practices that undermine or restrict competition in markets are a threat to consumer interests, productivity and the wider economy. Suspending competition law longer than necessary could be harmful to consumers and to the economy and the Government will continue to use such measures only where necessary and appropriate.

The Solent maritime crossings order and all the other public policy exclusion orders revoked in July fulfilled their purpose. That there is no longer a need for this order is a testament to the success of the road map and the effectiveness of the Government’s response to Covid-19.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate—the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and my noble friend Lord Bassam—and of course to the Minister for his response. I do not regret tabling this Motion because, as the Minister said, it is four years since we last debated the order and quite a few things have happened since then, including Covid. I certainly want to put on the record the thanks of people I have spoken to on both islands for the grant the Government gave to keep the services going during Covid—otherwise they would have stopped; they had very little income because there were no passengers.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, mentioned that the Covid problems are still here and asked whether it was too soon. I can inform him that twice in the last six months there has been a week’s shortage of meat for people to eat on the Isles of Scilly. Whether that is due to Covid, transport or whatever we can debate.

I agree with the Minister that it is time to have this particular order withdrawn, but the concerns of residents and businesses on these islands will not go away. It is something that will need further thought, but it is good to know that the competition is still around, and that we can talk to the CMA if we want to and see where it goes. Again, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in this very short debate and beg leave to withdraw my motion.

Emissions Trading Scheme: Transport

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Monday 11th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Again, in this matter we are leading with the funds that we have supplied to developing countries and we have promised. The Prime Minister and the joint president at COP are engaged in discussions as we speak, to try and drive up the commitment of developed countries to help lower-developed countries with their aspirations.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, air is the most polluting of all modes of transport, and most air transport is excluded from the UK Emissions Trading Scheme because it is international. Will the Minister confirm that he is working hard to bring CORSIA—the Carbon Offsetting and Reduction Scheme for International Aviation—within the scheme and make some positive announcement for COP 26?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a good point. The ETS already exists for domestic aviation and aviation to the European Economic Area. There is also a separate scheme developed by ICAO, which he referenced. We will need to look at how we implement that in the UK and its interaction with the UK ETS.

Deep Seabed Mining

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Monday 6th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is quite right: the US is not part of the UNCLOS treaty; a number of other states are also not part of it. Of course we continue to engage with all our friends and partners internationally to encourage them to take part in these initiatives.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that, of the 12 countries on the list of countries that have exploration licences, a large number are clearly very small? They are reportedly relying on major international contractors to do all the work for them, including representing them on the International Seabed Authority. Does he therefore agree that there is a need for more independent technical expertise before this goes any further?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We work very closely with the companies based in the UK, including those to which we have issued exploration licences and those conducting R&D. That has produced a tremendous amount of research—something like 70 scientific papers so far—which of course we will seek to draw from. But we need to be responsible. The UK deciding not to take part in this and issuing a moratorium does not of course prevent other countries from doing it.

Energy White Paper

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Wednesday 16th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course, huge amounts of money have been invested by both the Government and industry in the development of fuel cells, which are required for the use of hydrogen in vehicles. Again, I suspect that we will use a combination of technologies. Clearly, electric vehicles will have a huge role to play but, if fuel cell technology advances and the costs of hydrogen production come down, we will hopefully be able to have more vehicles powered by hydrogen as well.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister just said, in response to another question, that nuclear will be clean, cheap, reliable, safe and lower cost. He will be aware that of the three EPR designs for nuclear reactors, one at Hinkley Point, one in Finland and one at Cap de Flamanville in France, the costs of the one at Flamanville have quadrupled since 2007, up to €12.4 billion today, and they do not expect generation to start until 2023. I understand the French Government have said they will not build any more of this type of reactor until they see whether this one works. Would it not be better to go for smaller-scale nuclear generation than continue with a new nuclear power station when we have not even got Hinkley Point anywhere near running?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I know the noble Lord is a sceptic as regards large-scale nuclear power; we have said that we will enter negotiations with EDF on the Sizewell C project but it will be subject to full government regulatory and other approval. Of course, value for money will be crucial. In addition, as I said earlier, we will be advancing support for SMRs at the same time.

Maritime Industry

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Thursday 17th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned that we should wait until the comprehensive spending review to see how much research money would go into this sector, but could he confirm that funding is going into the research and development of low-carbon ferries, which are very important in this country? Will the Government also support the construction of such a ferry at the recently rescued high-tech Appledore Shipyard for the Isles of Scilly to Penzance route, which would then replace the 43 year-old “Scillonian III”?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I know the noble Lord takes a close interest in developments on the Isles of Scilly; I have dealt with him in my previous jobs on similar matters. However, as I am sure he is aware, I cannot give specific spending commitments at this stage.

Renewable Energy

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Tuesday 15th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord will understand that the spending review is of course a matter for the Treasury and that I cannot comment ahead of its decisions. However, we are prioritising investment in the renewables sector. We are accelerating new capacity through the contracts for difference scheme, which gives us certainty to drive private sector investment and has been very successful in driving down costs.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab) [V]]

I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. Do the Government have any plans to go above the 65% renewables target in this NIC report? Secondly—[Inaudible]—the Government not to build any more nuclear power stations. Based on Hinkley Point’s mushrooming costs, which are even higher than HS2’s, they would do better to carry on with more renewables, as the report shows that their costs are coming down significantly.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think I caught most of that question. The noble Lord is correct that renewables such as wind and solar are now some of the cheapest forms of generation per unit. These technologies are key to meeting net zero but will need to be complemented by other sources of power, including nuclear, which are available when the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine.

Post Office: Horizon Accounting System

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Monday 7th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I have spoken to the chief executive of the Post Office, as has my ministerial colleague who is responsible for this matter. We are conveying the strongest possible message that the Post Office of course needs to have a strong and robust relationship with its sub-postmasters.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to be here; I thought I might have to be scratched as my train was late. The Minister has said that there was a substantial award against the Post Office, but every noble Lord who has spoken has pointed out that most of that went on legal fees. Is it not the duty of the Government to properly compensate the people who have incurred this loss?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am pleased that the noble Lord’s train was not late. I understand the frustration expressed by noble Lords. When I first saw the award, I shared some of that frustration, but that was the process and that was the judicial outcome. There is a separate historical shortfall scheme, which the Post Office is following. We believe that this is the appropriate way for compensation to be awarded.

Competition and Markets Authority

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Thursday 25th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to ensure that the interests of (1) consumers, and (2) businesses, in the United Kingdom, are independently and fairly looked after following the resignation of the Chairman of the Competition and Markets Authority.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to ensuring that markets work well for consumers and businesses and have already ensured that the Competition and Markets Authority has significant powers to investigate and act if it finds that companies are behaving anti-competitively in a market. The CMA will continue to carry out its important functions. We will announce next steps on recruitment for a new chair in due course.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Does he agree that, for the CMA to do its job properly and enable business to plan in relation to Brexit, the Government must have a robust, updated and properly structured competition policy? I heard what he said, but how will this be achieved? On the latest information I have, the CMA responded with a comprehensive plan on 21 February 2019. Since then, there has been nothing until a letter to the chair of the EU Select Committee arrived at 11.02 this morning; I declare an interest as a member of its sub-committee. Will the Government urgently introduce legislation on competition policies to support consumers in the UK and UK business?

Brexit: Negotiations and No-deal Contingency Planning

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Tuesday 4th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank my noble friend for his comments; he brings a lot of informed commentary on the subject. I am afraid that I do not think the option he set out is particularly practical. Were we able to carry on with membership of the European Economic Area, of course freedom of movement would continue, which I think would disappoint a lot of people who voted for Brexit, while the legal options are not straightforward. It would require the agreement of existing EEA countries and the ongoing agreement and co-operation of the EU, which would not necessarily be forthcoming. I know that the option has been put forward in good faith by a number of people, but I am afraid that the legal and practical difficulties would be considerable. That is why we default to our proposals, which we continue to negotiate on in good faith in Brussels and in other member state capitals.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister’s Statement today says that there will be no frontier between the island of Ireland and the mainland and no frontier between Northern Ireland and southern Ireland. It is not about time that he told us how this would work practically unless there is customs alignment between the two? I would like to hear the nuts and bolts of how it would work.

[Lord Callanan]

I can send the noble Lord a copy of our White Paper, where we have set out exactly how that can be provided through the facilitated customs arrangement and the alignment on goods. I am sure that, if he read it in full, he would see exactly how that could be delivered.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Report: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 30th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Baroness for her comments. Amendment 61, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, but moved by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, seeks to maintain the UK’s participation in the single market if agreement is not reached in the areas of frontier controls, taxes and charges, free movement of goods and services, the digital single market, standardisation and UK involvement in European agencies. As a result of the significant progress made in negotiations, we are increasingly confident that we will secure a deal with the EU and that the prospect of leaving negotiations without a positive agreement has receded significantly.

I will say a little more about our objectives in the areas mentioned in the noble Lord’s amendment. First, on frontier controls, we have thought seriously about how our commitment to a frictionless border can best be delivered. Noble Lords will recall the Government’s clear position on this, which I touched on in my earlier remarks. On taxes and payments, the Government are committed to making cross-border trade as frictionless as possible after the UK leaves the EU and will take the necessary steps to ensure the UK economy remains strong in the future. On goods, a fundamental negotiation objective is to ensure that trade at the UK-EU border is as frictionless as possible. That means we do not want to see the introduction of any tariffs or quotas. To achieve this, we will need a comprehensive system of mutual recognition and the UK will need to make a strong commitment that its regulatory standards will remain as high as the EU’s. That commitment, in practice, will mean that UK and EU regulatory standards relating to industrial goods will remain substantially similar in the future.

As a number of noble Lords have mentioned, the UK’s services sector is a global success story. The Prime Minister has set out the Government’s objective of breaking new ground with a broader services agreement than ever before, with new barriers to trade permitted only if absolutely necessary. We want to agree an appropriate labour mobility framework that enables UK and EU businesses and self-employed professionals to travel to provide services to clients in person. We are open to discussing how to facilitate these valuable links. Given that UK qualifications are already recognised across the EU, and vice versa, it would make sense to continue to recognise each other’s qualifications in the future. An agreement that delivered these objectives would be consistent with the mutually expressed interest in an ambitious services agreement.

We have also been clear that, by virtue of leaving the single market, the UK will not be part of the EU’s digital single market strategy, which will continue to develop after our withdrawal from the EU. This is a fast-evolving, innovative sector, in which the UK is a world leader so it will be particularly important to have domestic flexibility to ensure the regulatory environment can always respond nimbly and ambitiously to new developments.

We will want to explore with the EU the terms on which the UK could remain part of EU agencies, such as those that are critical for the chemicals, medicines and aerospace industries—the European Medicines Agency, the European Chemicals Agency and the European Aviation Safety Agency. We are confident that a deep and special partnership is in the interests of both sides, so we approach these negotiations anticipating success.

In response to the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, about Dover, Ministers have met representatives from the Port of Dover on a number of occasions, most recently on Monday 23 April. Furthermore, DExEU civil servants have an ongoing dialogue with the Port of Dover and Eurotunnel.

With that information, I hope I have provided a clear picture of the Government’s objectives for negotiating a deal with the EU in these areas and that the noble Lord will feel content to withdraw his amendment. I reiterate that I cannot give any false hope that I will reflect further on this issue between now and Third Reading, so if the noble Lord wishes to test the opinion of the House, he should do so now.

[Lord Berkeley]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who spoke in this short debate. Apart from the Minister they all expressed concern about the state of the negotiations and where they are going. The Minister gave us a very positive view on how the negotiations were going, to such an extent that one is tempted to believe that by the time the Bill receives Royal Assent they will all be agreed. There is the slight problem that it takes two to agree. As we have heard on many occasions, it is not just the European Commission but the many other European agencies there. If the Minister is that positive and hopeful about all these agreements, it is tempting to argue that he should accept my amendment because it will not be necessary.

However, he did not say anything about the rules of origin, which the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, also spoke to at length—we both read the same paper at the weekend. It is a very serious issue, as he said. Without agreement on the rules of origin I do not think there will be much free movement of goods across the frontier. I do not think we will be able to agree rules of origin in a couple of months. It is a very long drawn-out issue.

I was also concerned when the Minister said that we are having nothing to do with the single market and the digital agenda. If we are outside the digital agenda, we shall have very serious problems in many sectors of trade with the European Union. I rather hope the Government will look at this again. The Minister mentioned the agencies. He did not mention the railways agency this time, but I am sure he mentioned it in previous debates.

I shall read carefully what the Minister said. I will not divide the House at this late hour because we will all fall asleep before we finish, but I know we shall come back to this. Talking to the people of Dover, the harbour board, Eurotunnel and everyone else is one thing; it is probably almost too late to make it work with the massive changes that could happen. I leave noble Lords with a thought: if you live in Kent, near Ashford, and you have continuous traffic jams of trucks on the motorway during Operation Stack, usually caused by either a strike in France or the weather, I cannot see that there will be many people voting for Brexit in Kent by the time this is all over. With that aside, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 12th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I would be delighted to write to the noble Lord.

[Lord Berkeley]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in this interesting debate. It has been really well informed and I am amazed that the Government have nothing better to respond with other than answers that I think I heard six months ago. As my noble friend has said, time is running out. This is a probing amendment and I am grateful to the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, for suggesting that we should have gone harder, and indeed the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, said the same thing. We have time to have discussions before Report, but it is a sad reflection for all of industry, not only the transport sector. The noble Baroness referred to the manufacturing sector and said that we are no further on. The Commission has produced papers but we just get motherhood and apple pie. I do not think I can take this any further tonight, so I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, I am again grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, for bringing this important matter before the Committee. The Government are considering carefully all the potential implications arising from the UK’s exit from the EU, including the implications for the UK’s future relationship with the European Union Agency for Railways. The UK’s continued participation in the agency as a third country and its continued co-operation in the fields of rail safety and standards, as well as the implications for the UK’s technical standards regime, is, of course, a matter for the negotiations.

Our domestic railway and the cross-border services that link us with the EU serve an incredibly important function in the transport of goods and people across the UK and between the UK and the EU. In 2016, there were some 1.7 billion passenger journeys facilitated by rail in the UK, while the rail freight industry transports goods that would otherwise require 7.6 million more lorry journeys each year. Equally, the Channel Tunnel was responsible for 25% by value of all trade in goods between the UK and continental Europe in 2014, facilitating an estimated £91.4 billion of trade in total. Passenger services through the tunnel, including Eurostar and Le Shuttle, and international rail freight services, transported an estimated 20.8 million passengers and 22.5 million tonnes of goods in 2016.

As the Prime Minister made clear in her Mansion House speech last week, we want to maintain the continuity of rail services that link us with the EU, which provide important economic benefits to both the UK and the EU. However, our participation in the European Union Agency for Railways is not something that the Bill can legislate for. For decades, we have worked closely with our European partners to develop a regime in the field of rail safety and standards that reflects UK practice. We strongly believe it is in both our and the EU’s interests to ensure continued productive co-operation on safety and standards in the future, regardless of the outcome of negotiations. As I have said, this will be a matter for negotiations. In considering all relevant factors relating to the future rail safety and standards framework, the Government remain committed to our railways continuing to have the highest standards and remaining steadfastly amongst the safest in the EU.

We will continue to take on board the views of industry. The Government have a number of established mechanisms for engaging regularly with the rail sector. These include, for example, the Rail Delivery Group and the Rail Supply Group, whose members include the supply chain, passenger and freight operators, and Network Rail. As we prepare for the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, the Government will continue this engagement with a wide range of stakeholders from across the UK’s rail industry to seek views, which the UK has taken, and will continue to take, into consideration.

In the light of that, I hope I have satisfied the noble Lord that we understand the importance of maintaining the continuity of our important EU rail links, as well as maintaining a safe and effective railway. This will continue to be an important factor as we approach the negotiations. I therefore hope he feels able to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Berkeley]

I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. It is not news to me, because, obviously, I am aware of what is going on. Could he possibly write to me quite soon about some information that I have which states that the Department for Transport is looking at which regulations from Europe could be torn up as soon as we leave? It is apparently highly confidential, which probably means that we will end up retaining a mishmash of half European and half British regulations, with a divergence which will be incredibly bad for both our manufacturing industry and operators.

[Lord Callanan]

My noble friend Lady Sugg will be happy to discuss that with the noble Lord.

[Lord Berkeley]

I am grateful to the Minister. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan]

I took on board the noble Lord’s question but I am unable to give him those reassurances at the moment.

[Lord Berkeley]

I am grateful to the Minister for his reply and to all noble Lords who have spoken in this excellent debate. The Prime Minister has made more progress here than in the logistics, customs and railway sectors. My final question to the Minister is: has the European Union agreed this? Until it is agreed, it is not a lot of good. We need to revisit this and, we hope, have regular updates. I hope the Government will push very hard for it to be a priority—as my noble friend Lord Whitty said, to have this signed, sealed and delivered at as early a stage as possible. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Railways: Capacity

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Thursday 12th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to bring forward proposals to create extra capacity on the railways, as outlined in their 2017 manifesto; and if so, when.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Lord Callanan)]

My Lords, we set out in July requirements for the railway from 2019 to 2024, and we announced today the statement of funds available for it, continuing our record investment in the railways. I am delighted to say that Network Rail will be investing £47.9 billion in our railways over that period. By the end of this year, we intend to publish a rail upgrade plan, which will set out the start of the process of specific rail enhancements that we are investing in. We are fully committed to HS2, northern powerhouse rail and passenger rail franchises, all of which will contribute to this Government’s continuing development and investment in new capacity across the entire network.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chairman of the Rail Freight Group. I welcome what the Minister has said today and the Secretary of State’s Statement, which refers to continuing investment in the rail freight network. However, the statement of funds available is an eight-page document, four of those pages being blank. When does the Minister intend to put a few a figures in it? I hope that the Government in doing that will provide a holistic solution and commitment to things like the northern powerhouse. We have heard in the past few months about the cancellation of certain electrification projects and then about £5 million to be spent on the digitalisation of one line in the northern powerhouse. The Government are acting as a kind of pop-up café for the railway. I hope that we will have a long-term commitment to an industry that needs long-term funding.

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, I totally agree—I have given the noble Lord the figures for our long-term commitment for the control period from 2019 to 2024. He mentioned northern powerhouse rail. Let me tell him exactly what we are doing. We are spending £13 billion on northern transport in this Parliament, the largest sum in government history, and providing better rail journeys through the Northern and TransPennine franchises and the northern rail project. The train operators, Northern and TransPennine Express, will deliver brand new trains, including more than 500 new carriages, room for 40,000 extra passengers and more than 2,000 extra services a week. By 2020 all the trains will be brand new or completely refurbished and all Pacer trains will be gone. We are committed to northern powerhouse rail and are getting on with delivering it.

Monarch Airlines

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank my noble friend for his comments. I will certainly do that. Of course, we are all happy to criticise government agencies and organisations when things go wrong—quite rightly—but in this instance we should pay credit to those who have put so much work into organising this rescue operation. I am pleased that his repatriation flight worked well. The Secretary of State visited the first repatriation flight at Manchester Airport and I visited Leeds Bradford Airport to meet repatriated passengers. I was met with almost universal praise from those people for the way that the problem had been handled and the way they had been met in foreign airports by both Foreign Office staff and government surge team staff who were sent out to assist with the efforts in over 40 airports across the continent. On this occasion, things have gone extremely well. We still have a few more days of the operation left so we should perhaps not speak too early, but so far it is looking very good and we should thank the agencies involved.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the whole House is grateful for what the Government have done with the CAA to sort out this urgent problem. I am sure contingency plans were in preparation for many months. It happens on the railways, too, when a passenger franchise goes bust or similar. But my worry is that there is a much bigger problem sitting on the sidelines in the shape of Ryanair, which seems to have forgotten that its pilots need holidays. Enormous numbers of flights have been cancelled—probably many more than in the case of Monarch. Where it will all end up we do not know. The passengers have probably had a much more difficult time sorting out how to complete their journeys than the Monarch passengers because the CAA was well organised. Will the contingency plans that have worked so well in this case be available in the future for other potential failures, whether the airline concerned is registered in the UK or not? I hope the answer will be yes.

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord is tempting me to comment on the financial health of airlines but it would be wrong to do so. I think I have been robust in the conversations and exchange of correspondence I have had with Ryanair. The company’s actions and the way it treated passengers during the flight cancellations were disgraceful and it certainly misled me when I wrote to it about the cancellations. I have made that extremely clear to Mr O’Leary in writing. While it is the responsibility of the CAA, we will not hesitate to ensure that the passengers of Ryanair or any other airline get the compensation that they require and that Ryanair and other airlines fulfil their legal responsibilities to let people know the terms of the EU 261 directive. We will not hesitate to take action through the CAA to ensure that they do so.

Roads: Congestion

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank my noble friend for her Question. She makes an important point. She is right to highlight local road congestion and its impact on the economy and productivity. I will discuss her suggestion with my honourable friend Jesse Norman, the Roads Minister, but I will give her a few related facts.

As I said, we are investing record amounts in England’s roads. Of the £23 billion that I mentioned, which we are set to spend between 2015 and 2021, £15 billion will be dedicated to the upgrade of our strategic roads and motorways and major A roads, and the rest is to improve our local roads. The spring 2017 Budget announced that the National Productivity Investment Fund will allocate £690 million for local authorities in England for local transport networks from 2018-19 onwards. Some £490 million of that is available for the financial years 2018-19 and 2019-20 and will be allocated through a competition, which has already been launched, for which we have received 145 bids so far. We will announce the winning bids later this year.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister commit to giving the same proportion of investment to the railways to reduce congestion and improve reliability?

[Lord Callanan]

As the noble Lord is aware, we are undertaking the largest programme of investment in railways since the Victorian era, so I am proud of our record of improving the railways. Of course, there is always more to be done, but we are having a pretty good stab at it so far.

Aviation

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Berkeley

Monday 26th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

Once the strategy is published, will the Minister quote the costs to the public purse of the surface access? My understanding is that those costs for the expansion at Heathrow will be even higher than the cost of the first phase of HS2. Would it not be better to expand our regional airports and to do less in the south-east?

[Lord Callanan]

The costs of the surface access to support the new development at Heathrow, if indeed it proceeds, will be borne by Heathrow Airport itself. Of course we also remain committed to expanding regional airports, a subject dear to my heart, and we will set out our approach in the aviation strategy White Paper that I mentioned earlier.