Surplus Carbon Emissions

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 27th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a good point. Of course, the international diplomacy element of this is important. The UK alone is responsible for about 1% of worldwide emissions, so clearly we will not make a difference on our own. But as a leading industrialised nation, it is important that we set an example. We liaise extensively with other Governments internationally.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, some, though not all, of our success has been to do with the fact that we have dealt with low-hanging fruit such as getting rid of coal—I hope that we have got rid of it completely. The Government now need to turn their attention to the more difficult aspects of reaching net zero. I cite as an example the steel industry, which is very important in Wales and other parts of the country. What are the Government doing to support the British steel industry to reach net zero?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not sure that I would share the noble Baroness’s characterisation of getting rid of coal as low-hanging fruit. We have been extremely successful and will get rid of coal completely from the UK’s power system this year. We can contrast that with Germany, which is generating 27% of its power from coal this year. It is a great success, and it was very hard won. Of course, there are difficult challenges to face, one of which is steel. There are many other industrial sectors that are also difficult to decarbonise. We are working with all those industries to find appropriate solutions.

Offshore Wind

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Monday 11th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The bill payer will be very grateful that 7.5 gigawatts of construction is already under way, as we speak. We all want to see more, but at the right price. I understand why industry is urging us to pay more for this. That is understandable and in its commercial interests, but I would have expected most Members of this House to be on the side of bill payers as well. We can do both: we can get a good deal for the bill payer and take advantage of the many gigawatts of potential construction in there, which has either been consented or is under consent. Following a contract being let, it takes three to four years, on average, for the capacity to come on stream. Obviously, the capacity let in previous rounds is coming on stream gradually, as we speak. As I said, we consented to about 7.5 gigawatts in the last round. There will be another auction in about six months and it would take almost that long to pass new legislation.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, what assessment have the Government made of the increase in potential of both productivity and profitability for wind power companies to fit turbines to the base of their installations, where conditions allow, to take advantage of tidal energy, which provides a baseload. What support are the Government giving companies prepared to do that?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness asks a very good question. Eleven tidal stream projects were consented in this allocation round, totalling about 41 megawatts. The price for that is currently higher but we need to develop this technology. I hope, as has been the case with offshore wind, that if we continue to let more CfDs the price will continue to come down over time. That was one area of the round that was successful.

2030 Emissions Reduction Target: Heating

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 5th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble and learned Lord is right. His home area of Scotland will see the installation of a number of transmission lines to help to get power to other parts of the country. This is very important. Ofgem has allowed billions of pounds in the settlement to the DNOs, which will help electricity upgrades, but as he will be aware it is not without its controversial elements.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, last year, France installed nearly six times as many heat pumps as the UK? Does he think that a coherent government decarbonisation heat policy, a more effective new-build efficiency regulation, support for a professionalised end-to-end supply chain and independent advice for consumers have anything to do with France’s success? Are the Government planning to adopt any of those strategies?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Indeed we are. The situation in France and for ourselves is very different, because France has not had the availability of domestic gas that we have had over the years. Nevertheless, I agree with the noble Baroness’s point: we need to expand the number of heat pumps being installed. In fact, we are already doing many of the measures that she outlined.

Climate Change: Net Zero Strategy

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 3rd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I understand the point my noble friend is making. Of course, we continue to engage with China and India about the folly of building new coal-fired power stations. Incidentally, picking up my last example, because the German Government accepted the advice of the Greens and phased out their nuclear power programme, last year 30% of German electricity was met by coal-fired generation. In the UK, it was less than 2% and next year it will be zero.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, here is an area for improvement: I was very disappointed that there have been no further announcements on support for tidal and wave power, even though the predictability of this technology could provide baseload and save on the cost of battery storage and hydrogen storage. So far, only 40 megawatts of this technology has been supported by the Government, equivalent to a medium-sized onshore wind farm. The Government’s contracts for difference mean that they have the opportunity to provide more support for this cutting-edge technology, which really needs support in order for it to scale up and make its contribution to renewable energy. So why are the Government leaving the profits to other countries? This is an opportunity for energy security and for British industry.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Again, I am afraid I do not agree with the noble Baroness. There are some exciting prospects and we are supporting early-stage tidal projects. It depends whether she means wave-powered projects or the various barrage schemes, which are extremely expensive and have a lot of environmental implications. The approach that we take through the CfD system is to pick the most effective, cheapest means of decarbonisation, because of course it all feeds back into consumer bills. If we adopted the approach she is suggesting, these technologies are relatively unproven and would add to consumer bills.

Horizon Europe: UK Participation

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 31st January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think my noble friend has asked that question three times. He gets the same answer every time but he is welcome to ask it again. The point that he makes is very valid. There are 15 countries in addition to the EU that have associated to Horizon, including Israel, Kosovo, Turkey and Tunisia, but, for reasons known only to itself, the EU refuses to continue the agreement.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, the Government’s plan B will not help the situation, as the Science and Technology Committee found in its report on the Government’s ambition to be a scientific superpower. Our work and scientific visas and upfront health costs are up to six times as high as those of other leading scientific nations. Will the Government implement our recommendation to reduce visa fees in line with those of our competitors? If not, we will carry on losing scientists.

COP 27: Outcome

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 6th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sorry to tell my noble friend that I am not responsible for the financial services Bill. I would be very happy to get Treasury colleagues to write to her.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, could I ask the Minister about our overseas investments? It is important that we put our money where our mouth is. Since Boris Johnson announced that we would stop supporting fossil fuels overseas nearly two years ago, what, if any, investments have been made into fossil fuels through British International Investment, UK Export Finance or one of their subsidiaries? If he does not know the answer, would he write to me?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As far as I am aware, the Prime Minister’s pledge has been kept. If that is not the case, I will certainly write to the noble Baroness.

COP 27: Commitments

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 24th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

I welcome the Minister’s celebration of the contribution of indigenous people and civil society to successive COPs, but I asked whether the UK would work to exclude oil and gas lobbyists from future COPs?

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

May I request that the Minister writes to me about tidal stream energy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am happy to write to the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, on the important objective of tidal stream energy. With regard to fossil fuel lobbyists, it was not a cheery sight, although there are different issues and many fossil fuel companies are also engaged in renewal energy. Many of the biggest players in our own country are fossil fuel companies as they seek to transition through. We will certainly look closely at the issue of lobbyists, but who does and does not attend is not necessarily always our decision.

Prepayment Meters: Pricing

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 11th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course I can give the noble Baroness that assurance; we will do all we can to protect the most vulnerable. We all recognise the difficult circumstances that such people would be in, but our top priority is to make sure that there are no interruptions to supply at all. That is one of the reasons why we are ramping up efforts to make sure that we have enough energy to serve the UK this winter.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, those renting from private registered landlords often have little choice about how they pay for their energy. I am thinking in particular of students in houses of multiple occupation, many of whom are faced with very large bills indeed. Are landlords in that situation obliged to pass on any government subsidies to those students?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We certainly encourage them to do so. We are looking at the upcoming legislation, which the House will consider shortly, to ensure that not just people in situations such as houses of multiple occupation but also those on heat networks, those in temporary accommodation, et cetera, get the reduction passed on to them.

Gazprom Energy

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 24th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point. Gazprom Energy supplies about 20% of the UK business market, as he correctly observes, including many schools and hospitals, and so on. It would not be right for the Government to interfere in individual contractual decisions but for those that choose to break their contracts, the Crown Commercial Service stands by to support them in securing their next energy contract.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of a recent paper by the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit which shows that our dependence on Russian gas could be quickly and permanently eliminated, not by more North Sea gas, which is expensive, not immediate, low impact and temporary, but by reducing gas demand by returning to our programme of insulating homes, installing heat pumps and expanding renewables? Of course, that would also reduce household bills, create jobs and provide us with energy security.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness posits those as two alternatives but in fact we are doing both. We will still need gas supplies during the transition, but we are spending some £6.6 billion over this Parliament on home insulation measures, and we have one of the largest programmes of renewables in the western world and one of the largest offshore wind sectors in the world. We are proposing to expand that to approximately 40 gigawatts by the end of this decade. None of this can happen quickly—it is a transition—but we will still need gas during that transition. My point is that it is better to get the gas that we will need during the transition from UK sources rather than relying on unstable parts of the world.

Lithium Ion Batteries: Fire Safety Standards

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 3rd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It is an important point. We offer an attractive tariff for consumers who generate their own electricity to export to the grid but, as that tariff is lower than that for which they would have to buy the electricity themselves, there is an incentive, if possible, to store it and reuse it. As we get more EVs, we will see their increasing use as storage devices, and companies will start to offer an attractive tariff to enable electricity to be released from those at times of busy demand.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, going back to the right reverend Prelate’s question, how many facilities for recycling batteries are there in the UK, and what is being done to make sure that we have end-to-end design technologies in this country?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not have figures for the precise number of battery recycling plants in the UK. I am aware of some developments in that field, but I do not have the precise numbers. The noble Baroness makes an important point: that we need to ensure end-to-end recycling and reuse.

Private Sector: Environment and COP 26

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 7th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

All companies that take part in COP 26 will have joined our race to net-zero initiative. As I mentioned in response to the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, 40 of the FTSE 100 companies have already joined it and we hope that more will follow.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, can the Minister get all the companies that run public electric car chargers together in one room and force them to simplify and standardise their access and payment technologies? I ask because if anyone wants to drive an EV to Glasgow for the COP 26, they will need a phone full of apps, a handful of cards and nerves of steel in case the charger that they urgently need is either occupied or broken.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think that the House has some sympathy with the points made by the noble Baroness. She will be delighted to hear that the Competition and Markets Authority is carrying out a market study into electric vehicle charging in the UK, considering two broad themes: how to develop a competitive sector and attract private investment, and how to ensure that people using EV charge points have confidence that they can get the best out of the service. I am sure that the noble Baroness will want to contribute to that study.

Offshore Gas Rigs

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 11th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The Health and Safety Executive will continue to hold operators to account to investigate any gas leaks, given that this is, as the noble Lord says, a significant safety concern. The industry actively works to reduce any opportunity for a leak where possible, and there is an ongoing initiative between the industry and regulators to reduce the number of hydrocarbon releases in the offshore sector.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I declare that a family member works in the oil and gas industry. The Oil and Gas Authority’s policy on flaring is to ensure that the flare and vent volume requested for permission is at a level where it is “technically and economically justified”. Why is the word “environment” not included in this policy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The environment is clearly very important in this matter; I agree with the noble Baroness about that. However, our revised Oil and Gas Authority strategy came into force last month and features a range of net-zero obligations for the oil and gas industry.

Energy White Paper

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 16th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Like a number of other contributors, the noble Lord points out the importance of hydrogen. It is a potential key option for decarbonising heating, but it also needs to be looked at alongside the potential for heat pumps, heat networks, et cetera. We are developing all these options simultaneously, ensuring that we have the best available option for consumers and preparing the ground for the strategic decisions on these areas that will need to be made in the mid-2020s. On hydrogen heating, as I said, we are supporting a range of research, development and testing projects designed to help determine the feasibility of using low-carbon hydrogen as an alternative to the use of natural gas for heating. However, these are long-term decisions. We will publish the heat and buildings strategy next year. If the noble Lord is a bit patient, he will see the hydrogen strategy in the new year as well.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, will the Government focus on green hydrogen production for heavy transport and industrial use, and phase out other types of hydrogen production as soon as possible? Our gas infrastructure for homes is currently unsuitable for pure hydrogen. What is the cost of upgrading it and how does that cost compare with installing heat pump networks, which are safer, deliverable now, cheaper and require less generating capacity than other available options?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right to point out the challenges but, of course, what we require is probably a combination of all these different strategies. Further work will be needed to understand the full extent of the changes that are required to transition the national gas infrastructure to carry hydrogen and to understand the associated costs. Not all properties are suitable for the use of heat pumps, but we are working closely with the gas industry and stakeholders to develop a programme of works to assess the safety, feasibility costs and benefits of using low-carbon hydrogen as an alternative to natural gas.

Committee on Climate Change: Progress Report

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 1st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The Chancellor will be setting out our financial policies in this area when he makes his Statement but, as I said in an earlier answer, we will be publishing a heat and building strategy in due course, which will address many of these issues. The noble Lord’s point is well made.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, in its Future Support for Low Carbon Heat consultation, BEIS acknowledges the significant role that heat pump technology will play. Why, then, is the support proposed for heat pump technology restricted to 45 kilowatts, and therefore small-scale domestic settings, cutting out even those currently deployed or planned for supermarkets, schools, universities and businesses? If we are to build back greener, is not this technology worthy of support?

[Lord Callanan]

I very much agree with the noble Baroness that heat pump technology requires support. In line with our commitment to achieving net-zero carbon emissions, we consider the role of heat pumps in driving down emissions extremely important. This includes large-scale heat pumps. We have the clean heat grant, designed as part of a wider package of measures to support the decarbonisation of heat. The focus of the scheme is on supporting the supply chains that will be needed to phase out the installation of high-carbon fossil fuels in heating and take it off the gas grid.

Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 28th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I agree with the noble Lord that transparency, including on the evidence informing the views of SAGE, is important in helping to maintain the public’s trust and helping to grow understanding of the disease. As I said earlier, and as is normal procedure except in cases of national security, the minutes of SAGE will be published at the end of the pandemic.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, the Government have said that they are following the science, but SAGE does not include people from three very relevant sciences: public health, social science and molecular virology. Why not? Does the Prime Minister read the full minutes of SAGE? If not, who briefs him? Is it the Chief Medical Officer or is it Dominic Cummings, whose understanding of the deliberations may be very different?

[Lord Callanan]

As I said earlier, SAGE does not have a specific membership. The people attending SAGE vary depending on the subjects under discussion; something like 100 participants in total can be called on. BEIS holds a central list of appropriate experts in the different sciences, academia and industry. They are brought into particular meetings when their expertise is required, and that is the call of the Chief Medical Officer and the Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser.

Brexit: People’s Vote

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 12th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

My noble friend is absolutely correct. There are many arguments against a second referendum, but I think the most powerful one is that it would not necessarily solve anything.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister said that a majority of the electorate had voted to leave the European Union. If I recall correctly, 37% voted to leave, 33% voted to remain and 30% did not vote at all. Ministers go around saying that 52% of the British people voted to leave the European Union—I heard Jeremy Hunt say that on TV the other day. Last time I looked, the population of the UK was about 65 million, and we keep getting told that 17.4 million people voted to leave the European Union. That is about one in four. Does the Minister not agree that Ministers should be a little more precise in their language?

[Lord Callanan]

I am happy to agree with the noble Baroness that in the referendum, of the people who voted, the majority voted to leave.

Brexit: British Citizens

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Thursday 29th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We have been very clear that we want a deal, and at every subsequent stage we have reached agreement, so we are confident that we will get a deal. When we have a deal, we will put it to a vote in the House of Commons and in this House. We have been very clear that if that option is rejected, of course we leave under the Article 50 process anyway.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, is it not true that polling shows that if we were talking about a vote on the deal, seven out of 10 people would like to have it? On this day, a year before the Government have chosen to take us out of the EU at whatever cost, will the Government tell the young people of this country exactly what opportunities they propose to take away from them?

[Lord Callanan]

When we have a deal, which I am confident we will get, we will come back to this House, we will put the option to both Houses and we will report back to the public, including young people.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Tuesday 30th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Walmsley]

To ask Her Majesty's Government who is conducting the negotiations for the United Kingdom leaving the European Union; and to whom that person reports.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU, the right honourable David Davis MP, is responsible for conducting negotiations with the EU in support of the Prime Minister, including supporting bilateral discussions on EU exit with other European countries. DExEU supports this work by co-ordinating and overseeing negotiations and establishing a future relationship between the UK and the EU.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, is it not common knowledge that the Prime Minister has shifted the focus of negotiations to a competent official in the Cabinet Office, because she has lost confidence in a Brexit Secretary who complacently thinks the whole the matter is simple? His incompetence was proved by the shambles in the first stage of negotiations, which was only ended by a fudge on the Irish border. Will the Minister clear the matter up once and for all today, by telling the House how the Government plan to avoid a hard border while also leaving the customs union?

[Lord Callanan]

The first part of the noble Baroness’s question is totally wrong. The Secretary of State is doing an excellent job, and the Prime Minister is doing an excellent job in conducting the negotiations. We have said many times that we will avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland, and that remains the case.

Electric Car Ownership

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Walmsley

Wednesday 12th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Given his role on the Committee on Climate Change, my noble friend is probably well aware that we have an investment programme to encourage the take-up of electric vans, cars and motorcycles. You can receive a grant to purchase one.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that in England and Wales there are over 1,000 nursery schools looking after 47,000 young children that are very near main roads with illegal levels of nitrogen dioxide and the small particulates that come from diesel cars? These can not only cause lung disease but have an effect on children’s brain development. So when will the Government start regarding the rollout of electric vehicles as a serious public health matter, not just for now but for the future?

[Lord Callanan]

We have the largest investment programme for electric vehicles in Europe and we are the largest market for electric vehicles in Europe. One in five electric vehicles sold in Europe is manufactured in the UK. We have an extremely ambitious programme. Indeed, it was started under the coalition Government, and I would have thought that the Liberal Democrats would be quite proud of that.