Scotland Act 2016 (Social Security) (Consequential Provision) (Miscellaneous Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD) [V]]

This SI is a small step in the long, drawn-out and complicated process of transferring responsibility for some aspects of social security from the UK Government to the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government are always vociferous in their demand for more power, despite struggling to use many of the powers they have effectively or, sometimes, at all. That is not to say there cannot be value in administering benefits to meet the needs of beneficiaries in Scotland, but only time will tell whether it delivers a net positive and an affordable outcome.

This statutory instrument is necessary to facilitate the establishment of the Scottish Government’s child disability payment as a replacement for disability living allowance. The aim is to transfer approximately 50,000 recipients of DLA to CDP over 12 months, all being well. The amount of benefit will not change, but the assessment will. There will be no upsides—no political upsides, certainly—if current recipients fall through the net or if any change disadvantages an applicant for CDP compared with the previous DLA arrangement. Concern has already been raised about the altered definition of night-time care under CDP compared with DLA and whether that might disadvantage Scottish claimants. Having said that, my understanding is that this is being jointly administered between the DWP and the Scottish Government, so that should help eliminate such complications.

One positive change that has emerged on the back of consultation is that recipients of CDP will not have to apply for PIP at 16, as is the case with DLA, but can continue on CDP until 18, and then apply for PIP. It would be interesting if the Minister could comment on whether her department considers that beneficial and something that might be applied elsewhere in the UK.

The SI does three things. It ensures that there is no overlap, as the Minister said, between CDP, DLA, PIP and the Armed Forces independence payment; it provides for the continuation of CDP for up to 13 weeks after a recipient moves to another part of the UK, to allow time to apply for the appropriate replacement for CDP; and it allows the Scottish Government’s criteria for appointing someone on behalf of a recipient to be recognised across the UK.

These are practical and sensible measures, and that explains why the Scottish Parliament’s Social Security Committee dealt with it in less than a minute. Nevertheless, if the transfer of some social security benefits from the UK to Scotland is to have purpose, there must be practical and real benefits, rather than just name changes and different administration. The PIP point looks like it might be something for the DWP to consider, so I repeat: can the Minister say whether this might lead to a rethink in her department?

Where will all this lead? Can the Minister indicate how many other Scottish social security SIs she expects in the coming months? The question is: will this lead to the Scottish Government tackling the serious problems of poverty, multiple deprivation and drug abuse that blight Scotland, or will it amount to just relatively small administrative changes that could add to the complexity for those in need without providing transformational benefit?

No doubt the SNP will claim that only independence will unlock the resources needed to turn poverty around, despite the very real risk that Scotland will lack the resources to maintain current benefit levels, let alone improve them. Indeed, if Scotland decided that it was going to pay more generous benefits than the rest of the UK, which it would be entitled to do, we could see some kind of reverse benefit tourism, which would be at the Scottish taxpayers’ expense.

The challenge is to use these social security powers to demonstrate a positive difference in shaping the system to Scotland’s needs, to take account of the different social circumstances and different geography of Scotland. If it is done in that way, it will be beneficial to both Scottish and UK citizens by delivering benefits in a fairer and more efficient way, but whether or not it does, we shall have to wait and watch with interest.

Disabled People

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

Thursday 28th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Thomas for introducing this debate and for her dedicated commitment to campaigning on behalf of disabled people at all times and on every possible occasion. I follow the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, in terms of his engagement in what could be done for people with sensory deprivation, which is I want to address. I declare an interest: I have a deaf daughter and have honorary roles in a number of charities for the deaf: Action on Hearing Loss, the National Deaf Children’s Society and DeafKidz International.

On 3 May, I asked a Question about video relay services and received a very disappointing and inadequate Answer. The Government estimate that only 25,000 people in the UK are sign language users, with the implication that they were not a priority, because the number is too small, and that attention should be given to the much larger numbers of people who have acquired deafness during their lives and do not rely on sign language. The 25,000 figure is not recognised by the deaf community, which tends to suggest a figure between 50,000 and 70,000, because it includes friends, family, employers and teachers. The figures seem to be derived from the 2011 census, the first to ask a question about sign language, but the questions were different north and south of the border. In England and Wales, the question was, “What is your main language?” In Scotland, it was, “Other than English, what language do you speak at home?” Not surprisingly, the replies were different too. In Scotland, 12,533 people gave a positive response. In England and Wales, with almost 10 times the population, the figure was 15,487.

I suggest the truth is somewhere in between. Yet the Government seem to be choosing the lower figure, because that suits the argument that there are not enough. But these people deserve to have their fundamental rights acknowledged. They are British people, using a British language, which for many of them is their only or principal means of communication. They deserve full recognition. I am not suggesting that they are not given any recognition, but they need more recognition than they have achieved so far. I am also concerned that, in the exchanges that followed my question, there was an unconscious division being made between those with acquired deafness—deafness that comes with age—and deafness that comes at birth or in early childhood. I suggest that to create that division is unworthy, unnecessary and unjustified.

I wholly support, and have campaigned for, providing communication support for all deaf people. The technology we have developed in recent years, including voice to text, subtitling, text and email, has greatly enhanced the quality of life of all deaf people. I introduced a Private Member’s Bill to that effect. When we add in cochlear implants, digital hearing aids and loop systems, it is easy to see how much has been achieved for deaf people of all forms of deafness, acquired at all stages of life. However, sign language users, who are thinly spread across the country, remain frustrated. The voice to text service is cumbersome and not effective and the video relay service is not as freely available as the Government maintain. In Scotland, users can register for access to a wide range of public services using video relay services between 8 am and midnight seven days a week. Why is that service not available in England and Wales? If the Government are not prepared to follow the US example, where it is available 24/7 for all purposes, why not offer it on a limited number of minutes, for example, to registered users? That could easily be absorbed by the telecom companies, which turn over £30 billion a year.

In a recent episode of the Swedish detective series “The Bridge” there was a scene which showed the lead character and her colleague calling out to a woman reading a paper and getting no response. When it transpired that the woman was deaf, the lead character, Saga, signed to her, prompting her colleague to ask if she knew sign language. She answered that she had learned some, but not enough to conduct a police interview. That scene demonstrated the value of teaching sign language as a proper subject on the school curriculum, as I know happens across Sweden, Norway and Denmark. It helps increase awareness of deafness, the sophistication and complexity of the language, and provides a potential pool of future sign language interpreters. Again, Scotland is leading the way on this. I know the Government have a moratorium on new courses or exams, but they have given a positive response, so will they allow the preparation of such a course, so that as and when new qualifications are allowed, it is ready to go? A video relay service would increase the effectiveness of the interpreters we have, raise the quality of life of sign language users and enable hearing people and deaf people to communicate at a distance at any time of the day or night.

The campaign for deaf people has very strong support. Young people are keen to see sign language developed and used, and I suggest that making it a language course for schools and enabling interpreters to be trained, and for it to be accessible by video, is a way to ensure that deaf people, with their own British language, are not excluded from society, but included, as they deserve to be.

British and Irish Sign Language

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

Thursday 3rd May 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what practical support they plan to provide to enable the establishment of a nationwide video relay service for users of British and Irish sign language.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Buscombe) (Con)]

My Lords, video relay services are currently available from organisations that buy into the service. It should be possible for these privately operated services to be extended to allow deaf people to communicate with friends and family, but the end user would have to pay. BSL users already have a well-established VRS network, allowing accessible communication with a range of private, public and voluntary organisations. These bodies purchase the service from several established providers to enable their deaf customers to access their services.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister’s answer falls far short of what deaf sign language users feel is their right—both what they are entitled to and what they actually need. This is their preferred technology and can give them access to interpreters any time, anywhere. At the moment, its availability is time-restricted and, as the Minister said, it is a chargeable service. VRS is available for free in Scotland for access to public services nine to five, Monday to Friday. But sign language users want access 24/7 for all purposes—private services and public services at work, and contacting their family and friends. The US provides this, as does Australia, Canada, France, Switzerland and even Thailand: why can Britain not do the same?

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, first, I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Bennachie, for the enormous amount of work he has done in this area over many years. It is important to recognise that access to assisted hearing is available in a number of ways. We have assessed that of approximately 2 million people with hearing impairment, about 25,000 use sign language. Where VRS is not provided, we are ensuring bespoke support—for example, through the disabled students’ allowances and our Access to Work support, whereby the cap on grants for every individual who qualifies for Access to Work has just been increased to £57,000 per person per year to ensure that more people can receive the support they need in a bespoke way to help them stay and progress in work. There is always more to be done. However, we do not believe that enshrining this in statute and focusing all our resources in one area would be right, given the speed of technological advances.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

Monday 19th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I agree, in part, with the hon. Gentleman, who raises an important issue, because housing benefit has been in need of a review. I know for a fact that the previous Government were reviewing it, so we are trying to complete that process. He is right to say that one of the biggest problems about housing benefit, and local housing allowance in particular, is that because it has been almost open-ended, landlords have pushed and pushed on rent levels which have then pulled up the amount of money that has flowed out; the increase has been £5 billion over five years. I will be discussing with the Department for Communities and Local Government whether there is a way in which we can rectify that, but he is right to raise it. I am glad that someone on the Labour Benches has made a positive statement about the need to sort it out.

[Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD)]

T7. Further to the previous answer on disability living allowance, can the Minister say when these definitive objective tests will be produced? Does she accept that the budget has trebled because the allowance is so unclear? Does she also accept that objective criteria mean that some people who do not receive the allowance will qualify in future and that many who currently get it will lose out, so the sooner we have the clear criteria, the better for all concerned?

[Maria Miller]

I reassure the right hon. Gentleman that we will be working quickly on this and we will be involving specialist disability lobbies. As he is no doubt aware, these are complex matters and we need to ensure that, whatever actions we take to unravel the problems that we have been left with, our solutions have long-term and sustainable merit.