Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Browne of Ladyton and Lord Wallace of Saltaire

Thursday 24th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I always think about the inadequacies of the Government’s response to the Intelligence and Security Committee’s Russia report. I recall the paragraph that talks about the penetration of our society and politics by people from these autocratic states, which, to some extent

“cannot be untangled and the priority now must be to mitigate the risk”.

We now need some much more decisive action from the Government to mitigate that risk and to see how far we can untangle this.

I was very struck by the inadequacy of the Government’s response to that report in the following respect. The Intelligence and Security Committee recommended that the Government should publish the evidence that they had collected on foreign penetration of British politics. We know that that has happened on the right and on the left: on the hard right and on the hard left. The Government’s response was that they had

“seen no evidence of successful interference”

in British politics. That is a phrase that I would love to have drafted if I had been a civil servant: it lets them completely off the hook. There clearly is evidence of foreign penetration, whether or not it has been successful, and the Government should now publish that in full.

I will ask the Minister a question about the Crown dependencies and the overseas territories. We are now extending—and there are more to come—sanctions against Russians close to Putin, and their money. Much of the money that has come through the London laundromat has gone on to the Crown dependencies and the overseas territories. When the British Government, as the sovereign, enforces sanctions, what happens to the Crown dependencies and the overseas territories? Do we ask their permission? Do we suggest that they might possibly consider that it is desirable to follow within the next few months, or do we, as their sovereign, say that on a matter as important as this, they must now follow?

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, I rise to ask one very specific question about the impact of sanctions, but before I do that, I would like to associate myself with the earlier remarks commending the Minister on his introductory description of where we are and why we should roundly condemn Russia’s actions. He got the tone of that exactly right, and we need to continue with that.

I am conscious that, later today, we will take the Statement from the Prime Minister and have an opportunity to debate that, and we will have a long debate tomorrow. I therefore intend to restrict myself to sanctions, although I share all the ambitions of previous speakers that we will be able to extend our influence on a legal basis against the interests of people who are supporting this dreadful and inexcusable criminal behaviour that is taking place as we speak.

Here is my question. These sanctions need to be meaningful. I carefully read the debate on them in the other place, and I have read the letter that the Minister sent to us all thereafter, which deals with a number of the technical and legal points that were raised in that debate, some of which have been repeated here today. I am clear that nowhere in that debate did the Minister say at any point what the three persons mentioned in the sanctions on Tuesday—Gennady Timchenko, Boris Rotenberg and Igor Rotenberg—are not able to do today that they were able to do on Monday; nor did anybody say what impact these sanctions would have on any of those relatively small banks. They may be very important, but what are those banks not able to do today that is within our jurisdiction that they were able to do on Monday?

I raised this issue with the Leader of the House when that Statement came on Tuesday to your Lordships’ House. I said specifically that I recognised that this was a framework for the sanctions to be made, but the implementation of them depended on a suite of legislation, not only for their existence but for their actual use properly for the purpose for which they were designed. She gave me a very comprehensive answer, but the answer was all, “We have plans to”, “We intend to”, “We are working on”, “We are looking at”. I am not quoting her exactly, but it was all prospective.

We need to put into position a suite of powers that will then allow us to do what we need to do, so as we debate these sanctions, we should not kid ourselves that we are having an impact on Putin or any of his acolytes today, but we may have in the future. Interestingly, today, before the Prime Minister makes the Statement to the House of Commons, it is being reported that he is promising massive sanctions designed—and this is the interesting phrase—“in time” to hobble the Russian economy. Why do we not already have the ability to change the way in which Companies House practises and its ability to pour out shell companies that people can use to hide their assets? Why do we not have anti-money laundering legislation that is used in an impactful way to prevent the sort of stuff that is going on? Why do we not already recognise that we have people in the City of London who make a significant living out of facilitating all of that sort of behaviour, and they do it openly, with nameplates on the door that tell people that that is what they are doing?

It is important that the Government recognise that what we are doing here is legislating for potential, but it is not potential that will be impactful, although it may, for a couple of days, affect the sentiments of the stock exchange.

Nuclear War: International Conference

Debate between Lord Browne of Ladyton and Lord Wallace of Saltaire

Wednesday 6th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

As regards attendance at a conference that is still four months away, British officials have had conversations in Mexico City, Geneva and New York about whether we may attend. It remains very much an open question. Perhaps I may simply say to the noble Baroness that there are a great many different, and in some ways conflicting, bodies in which disarmament is now being discussed. These include the Nuclear Security Summit which will meet again in 2014, the UN Disarmament Commission and the Conference on Disarmament. There have also been a number of discussions on nuclear-weapon-free zones. The question of where one puts the priority and where you think it is most worthwhile to push for development is difficult We hold that the NPT review conference of 2015 should remain one of our priorities. We also think that there is value in the P5 process, on which Britain has been one of the leaders, and in the P5-plus process in which the P5 members discuss these issues with India and Pakistan.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, do the Government agree with the principal conclusion of the Oslo conference that no state and no international organisation has the capability to address the consequences of the explosion of a nuclear weapon and, much more worryingly, the view supported by experts that it might not be possible to develop such capacities? I hope that the Government disagree. If they do, where is the evidence that we have such capabilities?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the valuable contribution that the Norwegians and others have been making on this whole question of the humanitarian and, incidentally, climatic consequences of the explosion of a nuclear weapon are very much something that the UK Government are taking seriously. We see this as a very useful expert contribution. Looking at how, if there were to be—heaven forfend—a nuclear explosion, we would cope as an international community with the consequences, is something that is very valuable to take forward.

Defence: Trident Review

Debate between Lord Browne of Ladyton and Lord Wallace of Saltaire

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the United Kingdom remains strongly committed to nuclear disarmament, and we are working in a range of different international contexts to achieve this. As noble Lords will know, the next Review Conference on the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty will meet in 2015, and the preparatory committee met earlier this year.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of recent credible research which, using modern climate change models, found that even a regional war using nuclear weapons between emerging nuclear-armed states with relatively primitive weapons would quickly lead to significant global climate change, reduce temperatures, reduce growing seasons, have significant adverse agricultural effects and then quite devastating effects for all the world’s populations. Why, then, did the coalition Government not attend the Oslo conference on the humanitarian effects of nuclear weapons? Why did they boycott it? Do we have nothing to say to the rest of the world about these issues? Will we go to the follow-on conference in Mexico in 2014?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Lord’s work within the context of the European Leadership Network and the Nuclear Threat Initiative, which is highly desirable, multilateral work involving the Russians and many others. It is exactly the sort of work that needs to be done and published to inform the debate on the future of nuclear weapons. Her Majesty’s Government decided, in the context of preparations for the Oslo conference, that we should be pursuing this, as far as possible, through the conference on nuclear disarmament; the priority was to unblock that conference. As for attendance at the follow-on conference in Mexico, British diplomats in Mexico met Mexican officials some weeks ago to discuss the question.