Armed Forces Commissioner Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 24th March 2025 Grand Committee

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, this amendment would require the commissioner to report on their interaction with the Service Police Complaints Commissioner.

It appears to me that there may be some degree of overlap between the roles of the Armed Forces commissioner and the Service Police Complaints Commissioner. Given the important role that the Service Police Complaints Commissioner plays in making recommendations on service police issues faced by persons subject to service law, it is important to understand how the two commissioners will work together and share appropriate information. It will clearly be unacceptable for one commissioner to tackle an issue relating to service police issues that touch on the welfare of service personnel without the understanding of—and those findings being shared with—the other commissioner.

Commissioners have previously been shown to be effective in a number of other sectors, but it is crucial that commissioners with complementary areas of work are not siloed from each other so that lessons can be learned as quickly as possible across the whole sector, to the benefit of all those who are subject to service law. Clearly, there will be some work that cannot be shared immediately due to its sensitive nature—I completely understand that—but it is crucial that what can be shared is shared, which is why we are proposing this new duty. I beg to move.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 20 in the name of my noble friend Lord Hay of Ballyore, which I have signed. My noble friend apologises for his absence, as he is attending his son’s wedding this week.

This is an important Bill, and one that I broadly support, as it will give greater support to serving personnel and their families. However, I believe that it is only right and proper that veterans who have devoted their lives bravely to supporting their country should be afforded the same protection as serving personnel and their families.

It seems strange to me that, while the independent Armed Forces commissioner will have statutory powers throughout the United Kingdom, the veterans’ commissioners for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have no such statutory powers. They are employed on only a part-time basis, with limited staff. Having said that, I have to say that all the veterans’ commissioners, within their remit, deliver an excellent service to veterans.

The proposed new clause is about how we engage in a meaningful way in our veterans’ needs and develop a close relationship between the veterans’ commissioners and the Armed Forces commissioner, as many of the issues they face may be of a similar nature and cross-cutting. Today, our Armed Forces veterans continue to need support for housing, employment and vital public services such as improved healthcare. Amendment 20 would have the effect of making provisions for the commissioner to hold regular meetings with the veterans’ commissioners across the country, where they could discuss specific matters pertaining to their area of the United Kingdom. This would allow the commissioner to be well briefed on the needs of each region.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own devolved Administrations, so the Armed Forces covenant, for example, may be administered in slightly different ways. It is important that the Armed Forces commissioner is aware of these difficulties. In Northern Ireland, the implementation of the covenant is solely the responsibility of the Northern Ireland Executive and their agencies.

Unlike in Scotland and Wales, local councils in Northern Ireland have no role in the provision of housing, health, adult social care or children’s services, which fall to the various agencies. In many parts of England, Scotland and Wales, members of the Armed Forces who have urgent housing needs are given high priority and are not required to show a local connection to be offered suitable accommodation. However, in Northern Ireland, social housing is provided solely on a points basis, regulated by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive, which is prevented by legislation from giving priority to Armed Forces personnel. The lack of a local connection will result in fewer points being awarded to them and, as a result, the applicant will not reach the required quota for the allocation of social housing.

This is only one illustration of the differences that exist between regions. The Armed Forces commissioner would benefit greatly by having meetings with the three veterans’ commissioners, at least once a year, to be made fully aware of the diversity between the nations. It is also essential that the Armed Forces commissioner is in close contact with the assemblies and their connected agencies. It is therefore important that there is co-ordination throughout the United Kingdom and that the commissioner is made fully aware of the problems that are specific to the veterans of the different areas.

Unfortunately, in the Bill as it stands, the Armed Forces commissioner has no remit to represent veterans. The proposed new clause in Amendment 20 would permit engagement between the Armed Forces commissioner and the veterans’ commissioners and would go some way to delivering an effective service for our serving personnel and their families. The primary aim of the amendment is to co-ordinate to address the needs of serving personnel and veterans right across the United Kingdom and it would go some way to improving the service afforded to both.

Finally, can the Minister say whether the veterans’ commissioners have been consulted on this Bill? If so, have they expressed any opinion about holding meetings with the Armed Forces commissioner? Do the three veterans’ commissioners hold joint meetings between themselves to understand the difficulties that they may have? Can the Minister assure me that the Veterans Minister will have a major role in co-ordinating all this?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, my general remarks will answer the various questions posed by the noble Earl, Lord Minto, and the noble Lord, Lord Browne. I thank both for the way they introduced their amendments and the very important points they raised, which are worthy of consideration.

Amendments 19 and 25, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, concern the Armed Forces commissioner’s interaction with the Service Police Complaints Commissioner. The Service Police Complaints Commissioner has a duty to secure, maintain and review arrangements for the procedures that deal with complaints, conduct matters, and death and serious injury matters. It is independent from the service police and the MoD.

I bring noble Lords’ attention to the fact that there is no overlap between the Service Police Complaints Commissioner and the Armed Forces commissioner. Indeed, they both have an entirely different focus: the Armed Forces commissioner is focused on the general service welfare of our Armed Forces and their families; the Service Police Complaints Commissioner provides oversight of the service police complaints process to raise standards in service policing and secure trust and confidence in the service police complaints system. The SPCC’s role is similar to the Independent Office for Police Conduct, which is the police complaints watchdog for England and Wales. It is responsible for investigating the most serious complaints and conduct matters involving the police and sets the standards by which the police should handle complaints.

Turning to engagement between the commissioners, as the Armed Forces commissioner and the Service Police Complaints Commissioner are both independent, it will ultimately be up to them to decide how they choose to exercise their powers to work together effectively. It is likely that the commissioner will implement a series of formal and informal working arrangements with various groups, organisations and committees, including—importantly for the amendments in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, and the noble Earl, Lord Minto—the Service Police Complaints Commissioner.

Creating a legal obligation on the Secretary of State to publish a report within six months of the Bill receiving Royal Assent—as per the noble Baroness’s Amendment 19—would likely prove to be unrealistic. With an office of this scale and importance, it will likely take time for the commissioner to develop the necessary processes and to undertake the breadth of engagement outlined previously. I hope this provides the necessary reassurance to the noble Baroness—as well as the noble Earl—without needing to specify details of engagement in the Bill. On these grounds, I ask her to withdraw her amendment at the appropriate time.

Before I continue, I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Newlove, to the Committee’s proceedings. Her knowledge and experience as Victims’ Commissioner are welcome, so we are very pleased to see her here.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for introducing Amendment 20, after Clause 5 and on veterans’ commissioners. It is in his name, as well as that of the noble Lord, Lord Hay, and we completely understand why he is not present with us. The noble Lord, Lord Browne, sought a requirement for the Armed Forces commissioner to engage with the veterans’ commissioners.

--- Later in debate ---

Tabled by

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

20: After Clause 5, insert the following new Clause—
“Engagement with the Veterans’ Commissioners(1) In carrying out their functions under this Act, the Armed Forces Commissioner must regularly consult with the Veterans’ Commissioners for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.(2) Engagement with the Veterans’ Commissioners under subsection (1) must have the primary aim of coordinating to address the needs of serving members of the Armed Forces and veterans across the United Kingdom.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the role that the Armed Forces have played in Northern Ireland in bringing about the peace process—I should have said that before. I listened carefully to the Minister, for whom I have great respect, and I know that the Government are committed to strengthening support for the entire forces, so I am pleased that there will be a co-ordinated approach among all the commissioners. Having said that, I do not wish to move by amendment.

Amendment 20 not moved.

Armed Forces Commissioner Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 5th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I welcome the Armed Forces Commissioner Bill. We all owe a great debt to the brave men and women who have served and continue to serve us so valiantly in our Armed Forces, at home and in combat abroad. In my part of the United Kingdom, Northern Ireland, we will never forget their efforts and, in many cases, their sacrifice during the height of the Troubles. It is a historical fact that, were it not for the Armed Forces and security personnel, there would never have been a peace process in Northern Ireland and we would not have the relative peace that we enjoy today.

For that reason, I welcome the Bill put forward by His Majesty’s Government to give greater support to service personnel and their families. It is important to state that there should be no impediment that would block the personnel from being treated fairly and equitably in all parts of the United Kingdom and abroad. It is right and just that the proposed legislation will treat Northern Ireland service personnel in exactly the same way as in other parts of the United Kingdom.

We have heard tonight that morale has been falling for far too long, as recent satisfaction polls clearly show. We have heard that, due to poor work/life balance, unsuitable housing, harassment and bullying, it is proving difficult to recruit and retain personnel. I therefore welcome the appointment of a truly independent commissioner who will not be drawn from the ranks of the military or Civil Service and, being statutory, will be able to ensure that the rights of all service personnel will be totally upheld.

I am glad to see that families are at the heart of the Bill, as it is often the spouses who provide the much-needed support at home. They often have to make sacrifices to keep their families together. It is thus important that the families have the same access to make complaints. Can the Minister confirm that bereaved relatives will also be granted the same access?

It is also pleasing to note that reservists will have the same rights under this Bill. The reserve programme in Northern Ireland is immensely popular, with twice as many people per head of population volunteering for the Reserve Forces as in other parts of the United Kingdom. I declare that I have a family member who currently serves in the Reserve Forces.

I hope that the proposed budget of around £5 million will prove adequate to allow the implementation of the important safeguards enshrined in this Bill. As time proceeds and personnel become more familiar with the scheme, it will be necessary for that budget to be increased.

I would not wish to complete my speech without referring to the rights of those who have bravely served our country and are now veterans. As the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, pointed out, at present there is no provision in the Bill which would grant the veterans’ commissioners similar statutory powers to the Armed Forces commissioner. Will the Minister agree that veterans deserve similar protection to that granted to serving members of the forces?

Finally, I will raise another important issue relating to veterans’ rights in Northern Ireland. In Great Britain, all the local authorities have quite rightly signed up to the Armed Forces covenant, which protects veterans’ rights relating to the provision of public and commercial services. Unfortunately and disappointingly, in Northern Ireland only five of the 11 local councils have chosen fully to adopt the covenant. It was extremely disappointing that in February’s meeting of Belfast City Council the Armed Forces covenant was rejected because of a nationalist bloc. Surely, as the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner, Mr David Johnstone, stated, the covenant is not about advantage, it is simply to prevent disadvantage.

I welcome the Bill as I am sure it will ensure that the rights of serving personnel and veterans throughout this country and abroad will be fully protected.

Armed Forces Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 2nd November 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I am pleased to support Amendment 60 in the name of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans. There is no doubt that problem gambling is a debilitating condition that takes over people’s lives and, in some cases, destroys them. Since the Gambling Act 2005, the opportunities to gamble have increased significantly. As we have heard, the recent report from Swansea University and the Armed Forces veterans’ health and gambling study clearly indicate that, in the United Kingdom, serving personnel and veterans in particular are significantly more likely to struggle with problem gambling than non-veterans.

I was privileged to meet many problem gamblers, some from the Armed Forces, when the GAMSTOP exclusion from online gambling was being debated in your Lordships’ House. One of those gamblers was a retired Army major, Justyn Larcombe, whose case is well documented. He lost more than £750,000 over three years through taking part in online sports books. As a result, he lost his home, his family and his wife. However, I am glad to say that he has now been reunited with his wife and family, and has become actively involved in helping others obtain help for their gambling addiction. Indeed, he was the co-investigator on the United Kingdom Armed Forces Veterans’ Health and Gambling Study 2021 report, which provided a useful survey of gambling, mental health and associated costs among a sample of UK veterans.

The findings of that report back up the fact that members of the Armed Forces are much more likely to develop gambling problems, especially if they have experienced post-traumatic stress. Also, the transition from active military service to civilian life can be extremely challenging, leading, as we have heard, to many veterans engaging in high-risk behaviour, such as alcohol and substance abuse, and having behavioural problems. As I have said, there is growing evidence indicating a specific vulnerability to gambling-related harm.

Veterans’ gambling is more likely to be motivated by a need to escape and avoid distress. Indeed, we should note that the 2021 veterans study found that

“gambling is estimated to cost the UK between £260 million to £1.6 billion in economic, health, social and criminal justice costs”.

As the Forces in Mind Trust states:

“This research found that veterans with problem gambling had higher health care and benefits costs, as well as higher levels of debt than non-veterans.”


I believe that this amendment would lead to the provision of much needed further research—because research is limited at the moment—to assist our understanding of the mechanisms underlying problem gambling among Armed Forces personnel. With increased data, the Government would be in a much better position to formulate and draw up policies to help those in our Armed Forces facing gambling problems. It would also help them to think of policies to reduce the stigma often associated with those in the Armed Forces seeking help for gambling problems. Unfortunately, many personnel fear facing the possible repercussions, such as losing a chance at promotion or, in some cases, being dismissed from the services.

The problem of gambling in the Armed Forces is real and causing real problems for not just the individuals in the Armed Forces but their families. The inclusion of this proposed new clause in the Bill would go a long way to provide for and protect them so that the Government could make well-informed decisions, as I said. Northern Ireland has the highest incidence of problem gambling in the general population. It is four times higher than in any other region in the United Kingdom. I hope that, if these two proposed new clauses are accepted by the Government, they will apply to Northern Ireland.

We must continue to improve service and, where we can support sensible, practical and long-lasting protection for all our military personnel, we should do so. I fully support any legislation that will improve the lives of our very fine personnel.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I support all the amendments in this group on behalf of the Liberal Democrat Benches. I will particularly speak to Amendments 48 and 66A. As the noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, pointed out in introducing Amendment 66A, it very much builds on those he sought very hard to bring forward on the overseas operations Bill. The suggestion at the time was that perhaps that Bill was not the right place for such an amendment.

The idea of a duty of care seems to be beneficial, and the amendment is laid out in very clear detail. I have a suspicion that the Minister might come back with a whole set of reasons why even this Bill is not the right place, and that the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Lancaster, about unintended consequences might come with the suggestion that there will be scope for some sort of legal interpretation and that this might create all sorts of problems. However, does the MoD not have a duty of care to service personnel and their families? Should this not be very clearly stated? If the Minister does not accept that Amendment 66A as currently proposed would be a desirable addition to the Bill, could she undertake to think about an alternative amendment that could be brought back on Report?

Amendment 48, relating to service personnel and mental health, is important. As other Peers have pointed out, the contributions from the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, and the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton of Richmond, are important in bringing personal insights. Often when we talk about legislation relating to the Armed Forces, we are a bit technical. We talk not necessarily about individuals but about generalities. It is clearly important to think about the individual because it is precisely the individual who matters in each of the three amendments in this group.

However, I have some sympathy with the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lancaster, that Amendment 48 specifically refers to veterans affected by events in Afghanistan. There may be a case for saying that, on the face of a Bill, we should be a little more general rather than being quite so specific. If the Minister’s only objection to Amendment 48 happens to be something along the lines of not being able to talk specifically about people being affected by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, perhaps again she might suggest some alternatives. Very clearly, there are a huge number of serving personnel and veterans who have been affected by the withdrawal from Afghanistan, precisely because they served there on multiple occasions, so this case is very specific.

All these amendments enhance the Bill. I hope the Minister will see her way to accepting parts of at least some of them, even if she cannot accept all of them in full. If she cannot accept them, we will obviously bring some or all of them back on Report.

Armed Forces Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 7th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, we all owe a great debt of gratitude to the brave men and women who have served and continue to serve us so valiantly in our Armed Forces at home and in combat overseas. In my part of the United Kingdom, Northern Ireland, we will never forget their efforts and, in many cases, their sacrifices during the height of the Troubles. For that reason, I welcome, and will always welcome, moves by Her Majesty’s Government to give greater standing to the Armed Forces covenant across the entirety of the United Kingdom. It is important to state that there should be no impediment that would block veterans from being treated fairly and equitably in any part of the United Kingdom.

In Northern Ireland, the New Decade, New Approach agreement committed the Government to legislate to incorporate the Armed Forces covenant further into law and to support its total implementation. It is right and just that the Bill before us today should treat Northern Ireland veterans and service personnel in exactly the same way as those in other parts of the United Kingdom, with full implementation of the military covenant. The failure to implement the covenant fully in Northern Ireland up to this point has let down our brave veterans. It is right that this injustice should be brought to an end.

Veterans across this nation should have full access to a full range of services. We owe it to our Armed Forces to do better. We owe it to them to provide a duty of care for legal, pastoral and mental health support. It is a historical fact that were it not for the bravery and courage of our Armed Forces and security personnel there would never have been a peace process in Northern Ireland and we would not have the relative peace that we enjoy today. We therefore have a duty here and in the other place to protect those who have protected us.

This stretches further, beyond the provision of the vital health and mental health services under discussion. We must also protect our brave men and women from malicious charges and questionable legal claims. We should value the principle that access to justice remains open for us all. To that end, it is worth noting in the strongest terms that there should never be any question of a blanket amnesty being offered. Where a murder has been committed, the law does and must apply equally. Equally, cases that have already been thoroughly investigated, and in some cases reinvestigated, and for which no new evidence has been brought forward, should not be continually reopened to satisfy a particular agenda.

There can be no moral equivalence between terrorists, or those accused of terror offences, and people accused of having committed offences when they were members of the Armed Forces trying to protect us from the terrorists. Those who served our country valiantly deserve some form of legislative protection against continual cycles of reinvestigation when they have been previously investigated and no compelling evidence has been brought. Where service personnel have been fairly judged to have carried out their duties, often in extremely difficult circumstances and at great risk to themselves, their actions should not be second-guessed years or decades later in the interests of political expediency.

British soldiers operate under the highest possible standards and with strict rules of engagement. The vast majority of service men and women act within the law in the service of their country. In any conflict there are of course exceptions to this. However, the majority of victims and veterans do not seek a blanket amnesty from prosecutions; they seek fair and equitable justice.

Regrettably, in recent decades we have witnessed a two-tiered approach to these sensitive issues. In some instances, decisions have been taken to shield the victim-maker rather than deliver justice. As it relates to Northern Ireland specifically, the early release of convicted terrorists under the terms of the Belfast agreement, and the subsequent securing of royal pardons through the on-the-runs scheme, equally perverted the criminal justice system. These are historical examples where dangerous legal precedents have been set.

We must at all times work hard to find proportionate answers to these extremely difficult questions. These answers will not be found if we follow a path that finds any equivalence between brave soldiers and the terrorists and criminals they protect us against when on the battlefield. We stand four-square behind our troops. We must support all efforts to ease the burden for our brave soldiers. Our veterans, and today’s service men and women, do not expect the path they have chosen to be an easy path.

I welcome the work that has been done to date, but it is clear that we have still much work to do. I firmly believe that the passage of this Bill into law will make a significant contribution to the improvement of the welfare of our brave service men and women.

Defence and Security Public Contracts (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, it is a privilege to follow my noble friend Lord Dodds of Duncairn. I congratulate him on his excellent speech. However, he has been somewhat modest about his career and achievements. He studied law at St John’s College, Cambridge and was called to the Bar. As a barrister, he served as adviser to the secretariat of the European Parliament. His experience there gave him a deep knowledge of European law, which should prove useful in the current circumstances.

My noble friend has served in three elected chambers and has attained important positions. As he mentioned, both he and I were elected in 1985 to Belfast City Council. I served for one year as lord mayor, but he had the privilege to serve on two occasions in that role, and he was the youngest lord mayor the first time. Next, he was a Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly, serving in three different departments. As we have heard, he represented north Belfast in the other place from 2001 to 2019. In 2010, he became leader of the Democratic Unionist Party here in Westminster and was appointed to the Privy Council.

Throughout his career, my noble friend Lord Dodds has demonstrated a steadfast commitment to the union as the bedrock of his political outlook. Before the referendum on Scottish independence, he stressed that all the countries of the UK were stronger together than they could ever be apart. More recently, he referred to Brexit as a battle for the union itself, and negotiated tirelessly to protect Northern Ireland’s position in the United Kingdom. In Belfast City Hall, in the Northern Ireland Assembly and in the other place, my noble friend always sought to represent all his constituents, whatever their political persuasion. When it is remembered that, on at least three occasions, attempts were made to take his life by political opponents who regarded violence as an acceptable weapon, his adherence to this principle is all the more laudable. I am very confident that better decisions, based on coherent argument and rational debate, will be arrived at in your Lordships’ House in the coming years because of the presence of my noble friend.

Turning to the statutory instrument before us, these regulations are important to prevent what could potentially be a very bad outcome if the 2019 regulations are not amended. We simply cannot afford for there to be any unnecessary uncertainty over the law on regulating defence and security public contracts. Given that there is now a transition period that runs out at the end of the year, the 2019 regulations, which amended the 2011 regulations, are quite simply unfit for purpose in certain key aspects and must themselves be updated. I presume that, to the extent that it is relevant, the devolved Administrations have been duly consulted. These are technical but nevertheless significant provisions and we are seeing a lot of this type of legislation in the run-up to 31 December. I am very happy to support the Government in this and in their ongoing work to make the statute book ready for when the transition period finally ends.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

Is the noble Lord, Lord Mann, with us? No? I call the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft?

Armed Forces Covenant

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I congratulate the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Portsmouth on securing this important debate. I declare an interest as a member of the Reserve Forces and Cadets Association, Northern Ireland, and as a trustee of the Somme Association. I fully concur with the view that the military covenant is a necessary and important support for serving personnel, veterans and their families. I firmly believe that we need to ensure that both the covenant and associated initiatives are effective vehicles for delivering on their important aims.

One important element of the covenant in Great Britain is the community dimension focused around local authorities, which are responsible for housing, health and education. However, there is a problem in Northern Ireland in that the local authorities do not possess any of these powers. Unfortunately, the political constraints in Northern Ireland remain an impediment for full implementation. However, it is welcome that Northern Ireland is set to secure a place on the covenant reference group and I am pleased that the work of the Veterans Support Committee in Northern Ireland is gaining traction. Its primary focus is to pragmatically deliver, in spite of the local constraints.

In conclusion, I would be grateful if, in his closing remarks, the Minister could give assurance that sufficient resources will be made available so that the Northern Ireland Veterans Support Committee can continue its good work and fully realise its aspirations.