Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 (Remedial) Order 2024

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I will not speak in the detail that the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and others have done, and I do not have the knowledge of Northern Ireland that various noble Lords have, on both the republican side and the unionist side, but I would like to say a few words on behalf of the soldiers who are currently under threat, be it from Clonoe or elsewhere. I am afraid to say that I know some of them, from past lives. Indeed, I was talking to one last week or the week before about exactly this, because he is under threat of being prosecuted for something that happened nearly 40 years ago. We have to ask: is that right?

This Parliament—every person in this Chamber—is responsible for sending troops to war and for the officers in the Metropolitan Police, including the poor chap, whose name I cannot remember, who shot Mr Kaba in the street. These people go out armed with weapons that are designed to be used. They are not meant to use them, but they do so if they are threatened—that is why they use them. I will defend all officers, including those in the British Army, the PSNI and the Metropolitan Police, if they behaved reasonably—I am not talking about murder. If they behaved reasonably, they should be given the benefit of the doubt by this Parliament, which sent them out to do that work.

The Army and the police keep records. Funnily enough, the IRA do not. I do not know whether anyone has noticed that. The Human Rights Act refers to records, but the IRA does not have any, so it cannot refer to them. I know far too many dead soldiers. We heard from the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, about people’s lives. She is right. I think of Simon Ware, one of my young corporals, who was murdered in 1991 somewhere in South Armagh. I think of Robert Nairac, who I knew quite well in the 1970s before he was taken away and murdered. I think of Andrew Green, a staff college student who was murdered somewhere in in the south—I cannot remember exactly where. I think of all those soldiers who were killed, including the Queen’s Own Highlanders who were killed along the coast in 1979.

Guess what? There is no evidence. We heard earlier that there must be evidence. But where will the evidence come from? It comes from forensic evidence, if you can get it, or from people’s witnesses. But guess what? If you are a witness to an IRA killing, you do not say anything because you will end up with your throat cut. It is quite straightforward. I should also mention Jean McConville, because her case came up as an issue when I was working in the Northern Ireland Office. I spent only a year working in the streets of Northern Ireland; it was quite long enough, walking the streets of west Belfast. I spent about a year in the Northern Ireland Office as well. Jean McConville’s case came up. For those who do not know, I will briefly recount it. She was married to a nationalist and lived in the Divis flats. He died, and she was left with their 10 children. She went out and gave a blanket to a soldier who had been shot. The next day, the IRA came knocking on the door and dragged her away from her children. Her body was found some years later, buried on a beach in the south. Jean McConville was murdered by the IRA.

Now, who was the leader of the IRA at that time? I cannot say because I was not there, but the dogs in the streets of Northern Ireland will tell you that Gerry Adams was most certainly on the army command council at the time. In fact, if I were to say that outside this place, he would probably try to sue me; but luckily, in here I can get away with it—I hope. He was certainly there. He was a member of the IRA, responsible for murder, and yet he is still living. Should this measure go through, he might get financial compensation from the British Government for all the harm he did. This is outrageous.

Do we, as a Parliament, want to be able to send our soldiers out to fight, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, has just said? Do we want them to go and protect our interests—not just one interest from time to time, but our national interests? Do we want to send them out to fight, or are we going to say, “Under the Human Rights Act, you’d better be very careful what you do. You’d better take the bullets out of your magazine”? This is just nonsense.

I suggest that everybody in this House, when it comes to it, would say that it is more important that we defend our public servants. If soldiers misbehave, yes, let them be prosecuted, but we defend our public servants. What really upsets me more than anything else—I will say this before I sit down—is this: do we wish to see the IRA win the Troubles that have taken place over the last 50 years?

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, the issues tonight need to be addressed collectively. Any primary legislation ought to take a broad, forward-facing approach, rather than narrowly focusing on the discrete issues raised either in the legacy Act or by the Court of Appeal. For much of the past 28 years, there has been an erosion of justice when it comes to dealing with the troubled past in Northern Ireland. For many victims of terror in Northern Ireland, there has been a hope of justice. But for many, justice has only been a repeated word and results have not been delivered. We have witnessed a process whereby terrorists were released from prison. It was then followed by comfort letters that certainly offered no comfort to the innocent victims of terror.

Across Northern Ireland, many people realistically accept that there is a limited possibility of successful prosecution and meaningful jail terms for those who carried out atrocities against innocent victims. Much of the focus around the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery has been on issues of independence and, specifically, concerns expressed by those who feel that the state holds vital information on the circumstances of their loved one’s death. The ICRIR has limited influence when it comes to requiring or disclosing that information to families, yet the stark reality is that it remains a far more significant inducer of information from the state than from the terrorist.

Little in the way of attention has been paid to how the ICRIR can provide answers for those families who are met with a wall of silence by terrorist organisations responsible for murder and bloodshed. Why should the family of a terrorist atrocity be left bereft of disclosure when the family of an act involving the state receives answers? There ought to be an acceptance that the primacy of the European Convention on Human Rights in our statute books and the courts is not just facilitating but accelerating that double standard in justice outcomes for victims of the Troubles.