Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland (EUC Report)
Lord Brougham and Vaux Excerpts(2 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Empey (UUP)
My Lords, I join in congratulating the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, and the noble Lord, Lord Jay of Ewelme, on chairing these committees. Although the principal committee’s report is over a year old, many of the issues that it pointed to on publication have come to pass. It has been an excellent reference document for those of us who are concerned with what is going on and, indeed, anticipated some of the problems. The noble Lord, Lord Jay, can take some pride in the fact that the sub-committee—a pretty diverse bunch—managed to get a unanimous report. We are therefore here to praise him, but perhaps the day will come, on subsequent reports, when we are here to denounce him, so we had better not get too carried away.
There is an interesting and significant point in the fact that people were able to agree this report. It illustrates that you can achieve something. Enough people in this room sat for years trying to negotiate what became the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. As it was possible to sort out some of those problems, which literally dealt with blood and guts, it is surely not beyond the bounds of possibility that we can sit down with our European partners and deal with this.
The whole thing was not properly thought through from the beginning and people did not grasp the significance of the relationship that we had built up with the European Union over 40-odd years. I am no spokesperson for the EU and do not believe in its federalist tendencies, but the fact is that this Parliament signed up to every single, solitary thing. In many respects, it did so carelessly. Being on the committee dealing with those matters in the other place was almost like being put in a sin bin. We agreed to things of far-reaching significance, which many in this Parliament did not fully appreciate. We are living with the consequences of that now.
To take a case in point, throughout the reports are many criticisms of the fundamental contradictions that exist in the Government’s position—from the point of the referendum to the present circumstances. I will just illustrate one, which our helpful Library note spells out from the start, in its first sentence:
“Under the terms of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland agreed between the EU and the UK as part of the Withdrawal Agreement, Northern Ireland has a unique status.”
That is the fundamental point: our status has changed. People can huff and puff, but that is a fact. It goes on:
“It is part of the UK’s customs territory but is subject to the EU’s customs code, VAT rules and single market rules for goods … SPS … rules to protect animal … health”,
et cetera. So it has changed. For proof of that, when some people decided to take legal action against the Government and challenge the protocol, what was the Government’s defence? “Oh, but we’ve changed the act of union” was their defence. That is being appealed and it would not be appropriate to comment further on it, but I am just making the point.
In parallel with that, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said in the earlier part of this year that there was no border. When he was interviewed later in the year, before the Summer Recess, he had to concede that it was a comment that had not aged well. It was nonsense when it was made and it is still nonsense. The Government have to be much more realistic about where they are. As a former colleague of mine in local government who made malapropisms from time to time said, the cows are coming home to roost. That is what is happening to us now. All these contradictions are confronting the business community and people who are trying to make a living. We as a country are spending hundreds of millions of pounds on providing mechanisms, through the trader arrangements, to deal with the paperwork and to try to keep businesses going. This is an unsustainable position.
The noble Lord, Lord Jay, on numerous occasions used the word “trust”. We have to have a negotiation. We can call it whatever we like—discussions, chatting to the vice-president, or whatever it is—but we have to sit round the table. The European Union is our nearest and most significant trading partner. Looking at the world in the past few months, one can see the necessity for this. The EU was willing to play a significant part in solving our problems in Northern Ireland from the days of Jacques Delors, who was the first person to agree the funding streams that are still going on, so surely, with that sort of approach, it ought to be possible to get a negotiation going that will deal with the downstream consequences of all this.
Under these rules, we are effectively being treated as a third country. My noble friend Lord Caine was talking about Sainsbury’s sausages, but that is what he meant. What nonsense this is. Our committee was given statistics by Professor Shirlow of the University of Liverpool. He pointed out that trade from Great Britain to Northern Ireland is equivalent to 0.0008% of European GDP and that only a very small proportion of that would be at risk of entering the EU single market. People on the island will know immediately if there is any attempt to flood the EU single market with inappropriate goods. My party has called for the law to change—I was delighted to see this in the Command Paper—to make it an offence to use the territory of the United Kingdom to send unregulated goods into the single market. That would send a signal to the EU and our traders that that is not something we will allow.
Other issues in the report and the Command Paper can be used as a strong basis. One thing stands in the way of taking the positives from this. If you are trying to get people to invest in the unique situation of having access to both markets, there is one roadblock, which is the requirement for the Assembly to approve it after four years. If you are going to market something to an inward investor, that is a huge roadblock. That is saying that there is a question mark over the investment before you even get started.
While we have that sort of arrangement, which is not satisfactory anyway, getting any gain or advantage will be hugely challenging. There could be potential, but we also have the democratic deficit. I think that the phrase used during the referendum was of a “vassal state”; well, we are the vassal region. We are taking rules over which we have no say or input whatever. It is a constitutional carbuncle. When my noble friend replies, can he tell me and the Committee on what basis did the Government attempt to establish what consent existed for the protocol? Who indicated consent for the core elements within it? How did they judge that?
What we should now be doing—I hope that our committee addresses this—is to encourage a dialogue, sitting down away from the war that goes on in the press. We are in a difficult period in Europe, with elections coming up for the French president and a new chancellor in Germany. These are important times. As my noble friend said, we risk instability in Belfast if we do not deal with this now. We have to sit down with our colleagues in Europe and settle this.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
Before the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, addresses us, I just let the Committee know that the noble Baroness, Lady Goudie, the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, and the noble Lords, Lord Bilimoria and Lord Bhatia, are not speaking today.
Covid-19 (Public Services Committee Report)
Lord Brougham and Vaux Excerpts(2 years, 9 months ago)
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Baroness Pinnock (LD) [V]
My Lords, I draw the attention of the House to my relevant interests recorded in the register as a member of Kirklees council and as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. As a member of the Select Committee, I too wish to praise the leadership of the committee by the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong.
My abiding memory from the witnesses who gave oral evidence to the committee was of the dedication of all those involved in providing public services. Service providers rose to the multiple challenges posed by the pandemic and overwhelmingly put first the needs of the people they served. As we know, some of them literally gave their all. I pay tribute to all those in public service for their heroic actions during this continuing pandemic.
As we have already heard, this is a wide-ranging report and I wish to focus my comments on the response of services provided by local government. What struck me most in listening to the witnesses was that staff were energised by the challenge of continuing to provide services in a different way. They were almost always motivated to continue providing the best services they could and determined to find ways round the barriers rather than be intimidated by them. The result, we heard, was that innovative practices were introduced. Some were the result of government initiatives and funding. As we have already heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong, 15,000 rough sleepers were rehoused in hotel accommodation very quickly thanks to a government grant and local government action. This was a significant success and one that had other benefits for homeless people.
Innovations were also sparked by practitioners from different services and organisations, such as NHS community services and local government social care working more closely together and with local and national charities and voluntary groups. They described how they felt empowered by the challenges of the pandemic to pay less heed to existing service guidance and just find a better way of doing their job.
One of the examples in the report is of social care and the NHS in the Leicestershire area establishing what they call their “care home cell” to ensure co-ordination. That is an example of dependence on already very good working relationships across the organisations. The importance of effective personal relationships was repeated by other witnesses.
It was also vital in another strong theme that emerged: the importance of local, place-based services. Time and again we heard evidence about topdown control being less effective than local solutions. For instance, as someone in the Local Government Association described it:
“Guidance came out in dribs and drabs. One of my [local authority] colleagues said it was like trying to construct a piece of Ikea furniture with a piece missing and the instructions being posted daily in bits and pieces.”
Another example of topdown instruction not being as effective came from my own local authority. Early in the pandemic there was a significant outbreak in a meat processing factory in Kirklees. The central data provided was so poor that the council’s public health director asked the council’s digital service to provide the data in a more meaningful and accurate way. This was successfully achieved.
However, it was clear from the witnesses that local services of all kinds were in a fragile state following years of austerity. Age UK wrote that the pandemic had revealed the
“true extent of the impact that underfunding, structural issues and market instability have had on the system’s ability to respond”.
Local government was described as much less resilient as a result of very significant funding cuts.
One of the lessons was best described by users. They said that where providers have listened to them and then changed their practice as result, their needs were much more effectively met and there was a reduction in duplication. This co-production—codesign— was much the best way forward for users who gave evidence.
This is a valuable report; I have touched on just a small part of its deliberations and conclusions but to me the lessons are clear. First, we should reduce central control and have much more local, place-based definition of service provision. Secondly, we should enable coproductions to flourish. Thirdly, we should recognise the enormous contribution of people and personal relationships in innovating and overcoming adversity, and value those people. Finally, underfunding services on which our society relies cannot continue if care for the more vulnerable among us is important to society as a whole. The challenge for the Government is how these vital lessons are to be at the forefront of their thinking and funding decisions. I hope the Minister will explain how the Government intend to respond to these very significant challenges.
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
I call the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Gower, and remind noble Lords that the time limit for speeches is six minutes.
Covid-19: Devolved Administrations
Lord Brougham and Vaux Excerpts(3 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord True (Con)
My Lords, as the noble Baroness knows, I am not a line Minister on this specific question, but I will ensure that she is advised on the matter.
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
The next speaker is the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern. He is not answering, so I call the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig of Radley. There is a problem with the sound, so we will come back to the noble Lord. I call the noble Lord, Lord Reid of Cardowan.
Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)
My Lords, like many in this Chamber, I very much welcome the UK-wide discussions to help us combat Covid. It is always better when we are helping each other. In that context, how much, as a total, have the UK Government distributed in consequentials and Covid-related expenditure to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, the noble Lord asks a very important question. I fear I cannot answer with a specific figure, but I will write to the noble Lord and advise others on that matter. As he says, the UK Government have procured vaccines for the whole of the United Kingdom. The Joint Biosecurity Centre, part of NHS Test and Trace, is UK-wide, and the UK Government provide testing capacity to all the devolved Administrations, including operating testing sites across the United Kingdom. Mutual aid and co-operation across and between all four nations has, in our judgment, been a key part in ensuring that PPE gets to where it is needed. I will write on the figures.
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
I call the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig of Radley. There are still problems. I call the noble Lord, Lord McNally.
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, again, I do not agree with taking this to my right honourable friend the Prime Minister who leads in taking decisions and is involved in conversations. I think it is more important to stress the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Reid, that there is active, high-level engagement across the Governments and that is securing progress. We believe in devolution, and the devolved Administrations have public health responsibilities. I repeat that co-operation exists and should continue to exist.
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
I call the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig of Radley. The problems continue. I call the noble Lord, Lord Jopling.
Lord Jopling (Con) [V]
My Lords, I want to add to the contribution of the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, about the position of Scotland and the jubilation which surrounds the new year. In the north of England we have over the years been accustomed to a massive migration of Scots going back to Scotland for new year and then coming back to England or elsewhere afterwards. It is essential that the rules that apply to Christmas also apply to the new year so that the Scots can fully enjoy their traditional holiday. Therefore, it is crucial that there is the utmost co-operation between the devolved Administrations, particularly with Scotland, so that jubilation does not increase the level of Covid outbreaks.
Lord True (Con)
I have not seen the specific report, but I can only repeat that there has been extensive engagement with the DAs throughout the crisis, with regular ministerial engagement, including the calls that I have referred to, and devolved Administration attendance at COBRA meetings. As an example, I refer back to the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. Through discussions between the four nations’ chief medical officers, we have also aligned advice and guidance to the clinically extremely vulnerable throughout the pandemic, dependent on restrictions in each nation at the time, and for the Christmas period. I assure the noble Baroness and the House that the reality is a common desire to defeat a common enemy. I wish that we could accentuate that resolve and not pick at the occasional differences that arise. There is a lot of work to be done.
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Private Notice Question has elapsed. I am sorry about the lack of communication with the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig.
Public Procurement (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020
Lord Brougham and Vaux Excerpts(3 years, 5 months ago)
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Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for introducing an important SI to the Committee. Could he set out, as page 9 of the Explanatory Memorandum mentions, the sequence of events for Britain applying to join the GPA? Is there any possibility that our application might be refused? What is the procedure for signing up to the new arrangements? I note that paragraph 7.30 of the Explanatory Memorandum says that the Trade Bill is
“highly unlikely to have completed its parliamentary passage”
and its implementing regulations adopted. Paragraph 7.32 then says that
“it is likely that the extension of existing duties … will be revoked and replaced.”
That begs the question of what the sequence of events will be. It would be helpful to know that there will be a smooth transition to the GPA.
I note that the Minister set out today and in one of the stages of the Trade Bill that the threshold for the GPA and EU public procurement arrangements are virtually the same—about €135,000. This is obviously a multi-million pound business. I wonder to what extent the Government encourage our businesses to bid in particular for food and agricultural products to supply schools, hospitals, prisons and other public bodies in other countries. Without this public procurement there would be huge benefits to our local farmers and producers supplying our very own schools, hospitals, prisons and other public bodies with locally sourced meat. It would be helpful to know that they will be encouraged to bid for this wider market in so far as it is feasible.
One remaining question, to which my noble friend referred—and I declare that I am a non-practising Scottish advocate—is that the definition of “lawyer” has been changed. Is that to take account of the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill? I just wondered for what particular reason the definition has been changed at this stage.
I would like to know what the sequence of events is for us joining the GPA, to be sure that it will be a smooth transition, and that the Government are doing everything in their power to bring these contracts for public procurement to the attention of the relevant businesses to enable them to apply for what could be a costly tender.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
I call the noble Lord, Lord Bhatia. Lord Bhatia, are you there? I call the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft.
Baroness Wheatcroft (Non-Afl) [V]
My Lords, as others have done, I thank the Minister for introducing these essential regulations—clearly, we have to fill the gap that we are creating somehow.
It was good news on 7 October when the World Trade Organization agreed to the UK’s accession to the government procurement agreement when we can legislate effectively to join that agreement. The agreement covers contracts worth £1.3 trillion, so it is clearly important that we should have access to those contracts on a level playing field basis.
The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, asked whether our Government are encouraging our businesses to apply for the appropriate contracts as they come up under the GPA. I would be glad to hear from the Minister exactly what the Government do on that front. Clearly, it is important that we export to the biggest possible market.
But I am concerned about that level playing field basis—and the noble Lord, Lord, Lord Hain, mentioned his concerns about this. Last year, the Prime Minister said that he would like to “fundamentally change” the public procurement rules to “back British business”. A Green Paper is expected shortly. Perhaps the Minister could tell us exactly when we might see it. Could he also tell us whether it is right to be concerned, as the noble Lord, Lord Hain, is, that we may well jeopardise our access to GPA contracts if, as the Green Paper will suggest, we move very strongly towards favouring British business?
Others have referred to the dubious nature of some of the contracts that have already been issued for PPE. I understand that the Government had to move quickly, but I do not understand why, as the Good Law Project has exposed, there had to be special procurement channels set up for “VIPs”. The Cabinet Office was directly feeding its contacts into the procurement process. Speed is one thing, but handing contracts to favoured friends is very different. Could the Minister tell us whether “VIP” channels exist in other procurement areas, not just PPE?
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
I call the noble Lord, Lord Bhatia. Are you there, Lord Bhatia? We will move on to the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
My Lords, the Grand Committee stands adjourned until 3.45 pm. I remind Members to sanitise their desks and chairs before leaving the Room. Thank you.