House of Lords: Remote Participation and Hybrid Sittings

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 20th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, who rightly reminded us of just why we had a virtual House and a hybrid House. It is in those terms that we should look at the last 15 months. I thank my noble friend Lord Howe for introducing this debate and I agree with his approach of looking at three separate areas: the virtual proceedings in the House; online voting; and whether we retain some of the improvements—to my way of thinking—we have seen during the pandemic in the hybrid House procedures.

Like others, I thank our staff, who have been remarkable, the House authorities, the broadcasters, the Procedure Committee, and the Government and the usual channels for helping us function and operate in these difficult times. Again, it is in the light of those difficult times that we should look at the last 15 months. They have not been ideal, and they have not been perfect, but they have certainly been better than having no House at all. That is the way we should look at it, and I do so with admiration, respect and thanks. Like others, I welcome the report of the Constitution Committee, which, while recognising the shortcomings of the hybrid House, points out its very real benefits for those who are disabled and those who are geographically remote. They should not be lightly dismissed.

As we emerge from the shadow of the pandemic—and I acknowledge the massive success of the Government’s vaccination programme—it is right for physical proceedings to resume. But they should resume while recognising the health needs of our staff, and, frankly, I cannot associate myself with some of the comments that have been made about the health needs of our staff, as if they are some excuse being used. That is not the case. It is easy for us, who have mostly been double-jabbed, to regard these as lacking significance, but, particularly if we open up to visitors and others who are not parliamentarians coming in as guests, there is a danger for those who have not been vaccinated. That should be considered.

I support, as I have said, a return to a physical presence. I also agree with others that online voting needs to be looked at, but it should be subject to detailed consideration. It does have some benefits. While hybrid proceedings make it easier for the Government, no doubt online voting makes life much more difficult. I can understand those challenges and sympathise with them.

Lastly, I come to the third category that the noble Earl set out: the considerable benefits we have seen, to my view, from operating the hybrid House. I refer particularly to a better-ordered Question Time and the ability for those who do not necessarily have the loudest voices to participate. I hope that we do not turn away from that very real benefit. This could be seen in other activities in the House, too.

We should not, as has been said, grab the comfort blanket of operating from home—I can quite see that, as the pandemic comes to an end—but nor should we either turn our face against change and seek to turn the clock back to the day before the pandemic struck, preserving the House in aspic. I fear there are a few parliamentarians who participated in this debate who are really parliamentary Miss Havishams, intent to hold out against any changes and to reside in a parliamentary Satis House. Such a course of action would, in my opinion, be a great mistake. The noble Earl is certainly not in that category; he is no Miss Havisham. As I have indicated, a longer Question Time with pre-allotted questions is, I think, desirable. Clearer announcements of business are helpful to members of the public and Members alike. I also support an earlier start to proceedings than our traditional one—and indeed an earlier end; that is desirable too.

Lastly, on Select Committees, I have seen the very real benefits from the participation of witnesses from overseas—recently, at the Public Services Committee, there were witnesses from Taiwan and New Zealand. Let us not throw away these sensible changes in a desire to get back to so-called normal.

His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 12th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, like others, I proffer my heartfelt condolences to Her Majesty the Queen and the Royal Family on the loss of His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh. He was a unique, pivotal figure who helped to modernise the monarchy—often with refreshing informality, as we have heard—while supporting Her Majesty the Queen in her constitutional role.

I had the great privilege of meeting the Duke on several occasions. The lasting impressions that he left on me were an overriding sense of public duty and a strong personal devotion to the Queen. As others have said, his approach was simply to get on with the job with enthusiasm and vitality. He was a man of great faith and, as we have heard, was the longest-serving royal consort by some distance, thus helping to provide continuity and stability.

In Wales, he was known for his commitment, dignity and support of the monarch. As the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, just reminded us, he showed massive sensitivity at the time of Aberfan, which is still talked about with approval and warmth. More recently, with the development of the Senedd—formerly the Assembly —and on the jubilee tours, his great contributions were of energy, enthusiasm and support. We have heard of his lasting, superb contribution of the Duke of Edinburgh’s Award scheme, which, as the noble Lord, Lord Boateng, reminded us, has transformed the lives of millions around the globe.

His was truly a life well lived. It is a loss for all of us but, of course, today and for the days ahead, our special thoughts are with Her Majesty the Queen and the Royal Family for their personal and profound loss.

Business and Planning Bill

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 20th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal)]

The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, has withdrawn from this group. I call the noble Lord, Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow my noble friend Lady McIntosh. Appropriate regulation to ensure proper provision for the blind, the partially sighted and the disabled in the allocation of pavement licences is absolutely right. In a civilised society, such measures should be a given. I therefore welcome the moves proposed by the Government in the amendments which the noble Earl, Lord Howe, is bringing forward.

It is important that we encourage economic activity. As my noble friend Lady McIntosh said, that must be done speedily if it is to make sense in this context. We should bear that in mind. The provisions brought forward by the Government in this group on access and protecting individuals are appropriate and to be welcomed. We should embrace the wider Bill, which seeks to promote the necessary economic activity I referred to. I will not delay the House further, as there is a long list of Peers who wish to speak. I give this part of the Bill my total support.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I stand here as a rather inadequate substitute for my noble friend Lady Thomas of Winchester to support the thrust of the amendments spoken to very ably by the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, and a triumvirate of government Back-Benchers. This took me back a few years to when we had to cover access on virtually everything, as every single Bill required it. One wonders why when we have the Equality Act, but apparently we need to put something into this piece of legislation.

The noble Lord, Lord Holmes, has said that he is satisfied with the Government’s amendments, so I feel that we probably should be too. However, there is one other issue—enforcement. Who will undertake enforcement? Access officers have been cut. Who will make sure that the arrangements embodied here are enforced? Clearness of guidance is vital, and, as we hear from the Government all the time, this is emergency legislation. If we have to wait to book someone to come in and have a look, that will take time. Will the police have some enaction? Will someone else do something? How clear will that guidance be?

It is not just those who are disabled or in wheelchairs who will benefit from this, but the entire flow of pedestrian traffic. Anyone pushing a buggy with a child in it or luggage on wheels will be positively affected by these changes. How will we make sure that they are enforced? The Government must answer this question; if they do not, this will become an empty series of words with no action to back it up.

Business and Planning Bill

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 6th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on introducing the legislation with such clarity. I welcome it and I think it gives a much-needed adrenaline boost, as was noted by my right honourable friend Alok Sharma in the House of Commons. Principally, of course, it is helping the hospitality sector, which has suffered such a massive drop of some 90% in business because of the virus. It is right that we fast-track these pavement licences and that there is a reasonable fee but, like the noble Lords, Lord Blunkett and Lord Low, and my noble friends Lord Blencathra and Lord Holmes, I think we need to be very careful about access issues and to ensure that appropriate measures are taken to protect access for the partially sighted, the blind, people in wheelchairs and so on. That is absolutely right.

Like others, I have some concerns relating to Clause 11 about off-sales, particularly late into the night. We know that drink and social distance do not mix. We should very much bear that in mind when we try to square the circle of opening up the economy while recognising the dangers that still exist from the virus; we ignore it at our peril. The British Beer and Pub Association has noted that 25% of pubs are still not able to reopen, even with one-metre social distancing, so encouraging the opening up of pavement licences is something I very much welcome.

The position on convenience stores appears a bit confused. The Association of Convenience Stores, which covers shops such as the Co-op, Nisa, Budgens, SPAR, petrol forecourts and lots of independent businesses, is not convinced that they are covered by this legislation. It seems to me that they are, in Clause 1(4)(b), but I hope that my noble friend Lord Howe will confirm that when he sums up. We should ensure that that is the case, because we need to be innovative and broaden our approach. We need to open up the economy.

I share my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral’s welcome of today’s announcement of help for the arts, but note that we need a road map as well for continued regeneration of arts and culture venues, as we do for sports, as we just heard from my noble friend Lord Moynihan. I hope that is also something we can turn our attention to. I very much support what my noble friends Lord Wei and Lord Lucas said about the need for an innovative approach to try to regenerate and revitalise our town centres with drive-through cinemas and drive-through facilities, and to open up towns with more markets, food approaches and so on. We should look at that. We need to be innovative and to make sure that we really do get the economy humming again.

The legislation is welcome in many other ways: I very much welcome the flexibilities for the construction sector and for planning permission. They are very sensible, as is the flexibility for driving licences. We need to ensure that we fund our local authorities, considering the extra burden that they are taking on. We owe them that to ensure that we all go forward together. Subject to that, I very much welcome the legislation. It shows some imagination. We perhaps need to show even more imagination as we try to open up our economy and get it moving yet again.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Alderdice) (LD)]

I call the next speaker, the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock. Oh, could you unmute? I am afraid we cannot hear you.

Extension of Franchise (House of Lords) Bill [HL]

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 2nd reading (Hansard)
Friday 7th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, although on this occasion, despite the rhetorical flourishes, I did not find myself in agreement with much of what he said.

Similarly, on the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, I do not understand the argument along lines of: “Let’s not do this—it’s only incremental. It’s far better that we wait and do everything together.” Thank goodness we do not use that argument when looking at improvements in the health service. Thank goodness that argument did not prevail when Disraeli was bringing in an extension of votes. Thank goodness it did not prevail when votes for women was an issue. I just do not follow that argument. If I may say so, I regard it as “Lib Demery” at its worst. There are many times when the Liberal Democrats come up with very constructive proposals, but to say, “Let’s not do this because it does not achieve everything we want” is not an argument that I follow, or that people outside this place will understand.

I seek to do justice to my noble friend Lord Naseby: he has brought forward a very specific Bill, and we should focus on a very specific issue. The Bill does improve things. Yes, there is an argument of special pleading—how could there not be? I agree very much with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, that there are more important issues to address. There always will be, but that is surely not a reason for neglecting this issue and failing to do something constructive. There is no possible argument against extending the vote to this small group of people. It is not about making a difference to an election in Kensington or anywhere else; it is about the right of individuals to have a vote. Yes, it is true that we came here voluntarily, but that does not mean that we cannot have an opinion. I do not follow that argument; it does not make much sense. The question is, is it right to extend the vote to this small group of people? Of course it is.

We often hear the argument that we remain Members of the Houses of Parliament, so we should not have this vote. What is all that about? If we remain Members here, why do we have to be sworn in in every Parliament? That is something I have never understood. Even if we do remain Members, why should we not have a vote? In every other respect, we are just normal citizens. Many of us will know—it was probably something in our mothers’ milk—about the Chartists, who fought for the right to vote; about colonial rights; about extending the vote in Zimbabwe and South Africa; about votes for women.

I feel very strongly at election time that I am denied a vote. Yes, we campaign, but why on earth should we not have a vote as well? This is one small piece of legislation on which surely everyone can unite, and it can be passed into law. I do not understand why that cannot be. Yes, there will always be more important issues—I am sure that is true—but, laser-like, this hits one small group of people. We have votes elsewhere, so the argument that we should not vote because we are part of Parliament does not work. We have votes in local elections and referendums; we have votes in European elections—or used to. Why on earth should we not have this vote? It is a small reform that needs to be carried.

Yes, there will always be more important issues, but this is not about making a small difference in by-elections here or elections there; it is about a fundamental right that we as British people have always signalled, throughout the world, as being central. Whether it was the “wind of change” on the continent of Africa or elsewhere in the world; civil rights in the US; the sight of people queuing up to cast their vote when Obama was standing for President—this is something we should take pride in. It may seem a small thing, but it is fundamental. While it is denied, it represents a rustle through the reeds at Runnymede. For goodness’ sake, let us pass this small piece of legislation. I thank my noble friend Lord Naseby for bringing it forward.

European Council

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 23rd March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con)]

My Lords, I think that it is this side and then back to the Opposition.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, I quite agree with the Statement where it says that a disorderly Greek exit from the eurozone is in nobody’s interest. Clearly, it is an orderly exit that is desirable. However, I should like to revert to what my noble friend Lord Howell said about energy policy. This is very important. Is my noble friend the Leader of the House aware that over the past few years a great battle has been going on between the Commission, which wishes energy policy to be a European Union competence, and the United Kingdom, supported by Poland in particular, which says that energy policy and mix should be a national competence? So far that has prevailed. Can she give an undertaking that that is the policy of the Conservative Party as there has been a certain amount of party politics, however deplorable, in these exchanges so far? Can she give a firm undertaking that it is the policy of the Conservative Party that energy policy will remain a national and not a European Union competence?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, we will hear from the Cross Benches and then from the Opposition.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

Personal Independence Payments

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 15th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure that people facing delays in receiving personal independence payments do not endure financial hardship.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con)]

My Lords, personal independence payment is not an income replacement benefit; it contributes towards the extra costs associated with disability. Employment support allowance provides financial support for those who are ill or disabled and unable to work. We appreciate the difficulties associated with claims for PIP, and we are absolutely committed to reducing the backlog, and waiting times. Monthly clearances have quadrupled over the past year, and the backlog is falling. All successful new PIP claims are backdated.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but will he nevertheless confirm that, as recently as last month, some 670,000 people had registered for PIP but 300,000 people were still waiting for their claim to be processed, some of whom had been waiting for six months or longer? The system is not fit for purpose, yet the Government are still rolling out the scheme. Is it not right for them to stop the rollout until the system is working, to assess the negative impact on hundreds and thousands of handicapped disabled people, and to make sure that it is fit for purpose before they proceed?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I dispute those figures. The backlog stands at 107,000 at the moment, and 65,000 claims are being processed every month. Help is available in other areas—such as JSA, ESA, local authority help and NHS help—for those who are awaiting an assessment. The system is not failing; it is succeeding, and the backlog is being cleared.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

May I ask the Minister what assessment Her Majesty’s Government have made of the recent report from the all-party parliamentary inquiry into hunger and food poverty?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the Government have looked closely at the all-party parliamentary group’s report on food banks and food poverty. It is a complex issue; there is no doubt about that. We have, of course, identified ways in which we can further publicise hardship payments, and we are doing that. We are also looking, with food retailers, at how we can ensure that food waste is minimised. The private sector has a role to play there.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, many claimants with autism lack insight into their own condition, and a family member or companion can help fill in the gaps during the PIP interview. But the National Autistic Society, of which I am a vice-president, tells me that a number of assessors are refusing to allow that. Will the Minister look into this? It is discrimination. Will he ensure that people who are autistic are not adversely affected by this attitude?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Lord does notable work in the area of autism, as is well known. The guidelines on the medical assessments related to PIP indicate that all these conditions should be taken account of. I have no evidence of this being a particular problem, but if the noble Lord would like to write to me about it, I will ensure that it is looked at.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, last June, Iain Duncan Smith told MPs that by the end of 2014 nobody would be waiting more than 16 weeks for a PIP assessment. Can the Minister tell the House precisely when that target will be met? I do not believe that it was met by the end of 2014. As the target was only for when people would get an assessment, can he also tell the House how long people will have to wait to get a final decision, and their money? He seemed to be reassuring the House that people would get their money backdated when they eventually got it, but is it not the case that, even though PIP is backdated, passported benefits such as blue badges and carer’s allowance are not?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Baroness has asked a range of questions, and if I fail to answer all of them now, no doubt we can speak later. We are clearing the backlog and, as she will know, there has been significant progress. I shall repeat the figures: the backlog is coming down and we are clearing 65,000 claims a month. The Minister in another place, Mark Harper, will report on progress to the Work and Pensions Select Committee on 28 January. The rate of clearances is improving month on month, and the number of outstanding cases in the system has been falling significantly.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

Last year, food banks served 500,000 people in six months. If people cannot even afford food, does that not show that there is acute financial hardship? Will the Government therefore try to reduce the number of people suffering sanctions and make sure that sanctions last for the minimum possible period?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Lord draws attention to the important role that food banks are fulfilling. Food banks have existed for well over a decade throughout western Europe, the USA and Canada. The reasons for using food banks are many and complex, and I pay tribute to what they are doing. As I say, to address some of the concerns we are publicising much more the possibility of early payment of hardship benefit and so on, and we are working with food retailers on food waste.

[Lord German (LD)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord German]

My Lords, the loss of a Motability car can mean the loss of independence for a disabled person. Is my noble friend confident that the personal independence payment assessors are prompting claimants as to whether they can walk more than 20 metres safely to an acceptable standard repeatedly and in a reasonable time, which are the crucial criteria put into statute by this House? Unless these criteria are followed, thousands of disabled people will not be eligible for a Motability car and those being retested may lose their car and their independence.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My noble friend raises important issues on the subject of Motability cars. It is worth noting that the Motability payment will continue while it is being reassessed. Those four criteria are looked at very closely. The legislation requires the assessors to consider whether a claimant can carry out each activity reliably. They will do that by means of observation, discussion and medical evidence—often just on the basis of medical evidence. I am satisfied that those criteria are being followed.