Public Libraries

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

Thursday 12th September 2024 Grand Committee

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, if we are to stop the decline in the number of rural libraries, we urgently need something that many of us have been calling for for a long time, which is an integrated rural strategy with a commitment to rural sustainability. There is huge, mainly untapped potential in the countryside to use existing community buildings as hubs and provide many services such as access to computers and the internet—vitally important—banking services, basic dispensing, post offices and, of course, libraries. They could be sited in our rural schools or sometimes in underused village halls or even church buildings. We have managed to do that in some places; we can do it more. We need to find ways to make this vital service work economically. Will the Minister commit to supporting this radical rethink about rural services?

Coroners (Determination of Suicide) Bill [HL]

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 16th June 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

That the Bill do now pass.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

I hope noble Lords will grant me the indulgence of saying a few words about this Bill. In so doing, I declare my interest as a vice-chairman of Peers for Gambling Reform and a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I express my appreciation for those Members of the House who have been so helpful. This is the third iteration of this Bill that I have brought before your Lordships’ House, and I believe it has been radically improved. I thank my parliamentary researchers past and present, Sam Parker and Chris Grozdoski, and in particular the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood, and the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, for their advice and valuable suggestions. I also thank members of Peers for Gambling Reform for their steadfast support as we have taken this Private Member’s Bill through your Lordships’ House.

This Bill follows nearly a decade’s work on gambling reform and is part of a much wider move to protect the many people whose lives are being adversely affected, particularly by online gambling. The campaign for gambling reform is massive. The most up-to-date statistics indicate that there are more than 400 gambling-related suicides each year. That means that, at least once a day, a family loses a son, daughter, husband, wife or someone else to gambling. The campaign to highlight what is going on and work out how to prevent suicides has been hindered because we have so little evidence and so few statistics to inform what we are doing.

This Bill was an attempt to try and get some better stats. I have received many approaches from people and campaigners who see the value of collecting data—not just for those who are campaigning, as I am, for better regulation of online gambling, but other agencies that feel they are hindered because they do not have the data to inform their suicide prevention strategies.

I thank the Minister for his letter to me in which he explained to me why His Majesty’s Government are unable to support my Private Member’s Bill and how they believe that the use of the prevention of future death reports are the way forward. I will continue to ponder the points he has made and to talk to coroners and other people deeply involved in this complex area. However, I have been deeply encouraged by many people in this House urging me to keep going on this. Therefore, I am delighted that there is a Member of the other place who has been persuaded of the merits of this Bill and will sponsor it through the other place. I know it is not going to become law, but I hope that, having made the arguments, we might find a way to address the fundamental issues—perhaps in amendments to other legislation which will come through Parliament—so we can really try to protect those whose lives are being lost and reduce the devastating consequences on families across our nation. I beg to move.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans for his persistence on this matter. As he said, it is the third iteration of this Bill. I think it has been improved and has, if nothing else, it has prompted the full engagement of the Government on this matter. As we will hear from the Minister, and as far as I am aware, the Government are taking on board the points that the right reverend Prelate is making, but maybe not in the form of this Bill. Nevertheless, that is progress. In a sense, it shows the power of Private Members’ Bills, even when they do not ultimately succeed in themselves, because they are part of a process.

I also urge the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans to continue his campaign. Gambling is a source of addiction. He has mentioned the 400 suicides each year related to gambling, particularly among young men, and I remember him making that point in previous debates. This is a very important area. The coronial system may be one part of the solution, but I hope to hear from the Minister that there is a wider consideration of how to reduce gambling-related suicides, which are a scourge on our society.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Bellamy) (Con)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans for, again, providing a valuable opportunity for the House to debate this deeply sensitive issue. I also respectfully commend his tireless commitment to highlighting the need for a better understanding of the factors that may contribute to a person’s tragic decision to take their own life and to, in his words, collect “better stats” on this issue in the gambling context. The Government fully recognise the importance of gathering better information on these factors. I thank the right reverend Prelate for the changes that have been brought forward to the Bill, and all noble Lords who have spoken on this hugely important issue.

However, the Government believe that this measure is not quite the right way to tackle these important issues, and I shall briefly explain why. This Bill would require a coroner to record an opinion as to the relevant factors in the case of a death by suicide. That would radically change the nature of the coronial investigation and the nature of an inquest. The scope of a coroner’s inquest is to determine who has died and how, when and where they died. The key issue is how—the issue is not why. It is focused on the physical means of death and whether the verdict should be suicide, accidental death, unlawful killing and so forth. The legislation is quite clear that it does not extend to determining the much deeper issue of why somebody died, which may well be a very mysterious and complicated issue, and could date back to some childhood trauma. For that reason, the Government do not feel it is right to extend the coroner’s jurisdiction in this way. The Bill, as presently drafted, would extend to all inquests, whether gambling-related or not.

We already have, as the right reverend Prelate pointed out, a mechanism within the coronial system where, if they think fit, coroners can draw attention to particular circumstances in particular cases—the system known as the “prevention of future death” report. That is an option the coroner can pursue; it is entirely up to them, if they feel there are particular circumstances that they wish to make more widely known so that preventive action can be taken in other cases. It is perfectly clear from past case law, and a recent case in the High Court—Dillon against the assistant coroner for Rutland in north Leicestershire—that this is entirely a matter for the coroner, and their principal duty is to determine who has died and how, when and where they died. It is also true that the investigation of relevant factors could be a very difficult job in an inquest, and possibly quite distressing for family members. For those reasons, the Government are not able to support this Bill.

However, there are a range of initiatives that are being put in place to deliver on the Government’s commitment to understand better the circumstances that lead to self-harm and suicide and to support effective interventions. In relation to gambling addiction, which is of particular significance to the right reverend Prelate, the Government have recently published a comprehensive package of measures and the gambling White Paper, including a statutory levy to fund enhanced research, education and treatment. More generally, the Government have committed, through the NHS, to a long-term plan to expanding and transforming mental health services in England to support local suicide prevention plans and develop suicide bereavement services. The 2021 fifth progress report on the national suicide prevention strategy is now being supplemented by a new national suicide prevention strategy to be announced by the Department of Health and Social Care later this week. There is more I could say about our commitment to taking forward and improving effective surveillance and prevention, but I hope that I have given the House at least some indication of the important the Government attach to this vital issue.

This House is in the course of debating the Online Safety Bill, which was referred to in the debate we have just had and, in that context, there will be a further opportunity to revisit the issues that have been canvassed today in a general sense. I reiterate the Government’s gratitude to the right reverend Prelate for this debate today. I thank all noble Lords for their contributions on this difficult matter.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

I give my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and the Minister. Protocol prevents me from engaging with any of the points the Minister made, but I thank him for the careful consideration he has given. Our discussions will go on as we look to the future. Meanwhile, I beg to move that this Bill do now pass.

Bill passed.

Imprisonment for Public Protection Action Plan

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

Thursday 25th May 2023 Grand Committee

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, for his tenacity and for keeping this terrible situation before us. I rise with a certain reluctance because I do not have the expertise that many other noble Lords in this debate have, though like all bishops I have a right to visit the prisons in my diocese, which I do, and I am regularly in touch with people working in the legal and penal systems. My colleague the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Gloucester, the lead bishop on prisons, has raised this matter on numerous occasions and sadly cannot be here today.

It is now seven months since the House of Commons Justice Select Committee issued its report on IPP sentences. There were some alarming conclusions in it, such as noting:

“The indefinite nature of the sentence has contributed to feelings of hopelessness and despair”,


leading to some suicides within the IPP population. There are reports that perhaps as many as 81 people have taken their own life when serving an IPP sentence. If we could identify in any other area of life that 81 lives had been taken, we would be calling for inquiries and wanting answers. Many of us are concerned to hear of further, more recent suicides.

It seems it is the very nature of these sentences that contributes to the hopelessness—sentences where there is no end in sight and where people are uncertain about the necessary threshold for return to prison. As has been pointed out by the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, many are fearful that even speaking about their mental health to a professional—the very person to whom they would be looking to get support and treatment—could be used as further evidence against them towards continued imprisonment.

One of the promises of the new IPP action plan is to introduce further measures to ensure that individualised support is available for each offender. One recommendation from the Justice Select Committee that I would like to draw attention to is the Parole Board’s agreement to review the listings priority framework in the light of IPP prisoners. These prisoners are stuck with incredibly long waiting times and what the committee calls an “ineffective” parole process stemming from chronic underresourcing. Will the Minister be able to update us on this review?

As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood, so rightly remarked two years ago, IPP sentences are the greatest single stain on the justice system. The suggestion that a person can, at a moment’s notice, be arbitrarily recalled to prison without having committed any further crimes is surely fundamentally opposed to natural justice and can have no place in our legal system. We often talk about our legal system in this country being a beacon; this surely brings that into question. The IPP action plan serves only to prolong an unjust legal mechanism, one that has been widely condemned by campaigners, charities, and psychiatrists and psychologists, and is contributing to self-harm and suicide. It is an affront to our legal values.

The solution recommended by the Justice Select Committee is a resentencing exercise where prisoners can be given a sentence appropriate for their crime. If we cannot do that, I hope that the Minister and his advisers will look closely at the need to find some other mechanism to address this terrible problem as quickly as possible and to give people fair sentences for their crimes but, once they have served them, to allow them to be released back into society.

Humanist Marriages

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

My Lords, the Law Commission recommended reform. That has already taken place in other jurisdictions. We are working on exactly how the reform should take place in this country as fast as we can.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, those of us on this Bench in principle have no problem at all with humanist weddings. Does the Minister agree that the best way forward is the one that has been alluded to already, which is that it could be achieved most easily by following the historical precedent established with Jewish and Quaker weddings rather than adopting the overtly complex recommendations of the Law Commission’s report?

[Lord Bellamy (Con)]

The Government have to consider in detail the Law Commission report, its undoubted strengths and the various points that have been made about it, not least by humanists. We will publish our position as soon as we can in the new year.

Coroners (Determination of Suicide) Bill [HL]

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 28th October 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-chair of Peers for Gambling Reform.

I am glad to bring before the House the Coroners (Determination of Suicide) Bill, now in its third iteration. This latest version is significantly different from the previous two; it has taken on board many of His Majesty’s Government’s criticisms and attempted to resolve them. Indeed, the Minister who dealt with the Bill in the previous Session, the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, had hoped to speak today from the Back Benches but has to be in court. He has, however, given his permission to say that he supports the aims of the Bill. Because we have tried to respond to the points made by the Government, I will listen attentively to the Minister as he outlines their response, given that I believe their concerns have largely been dealt with.

The genesis of the Bill is the frustration that many of us in your Lordships’ House have felt when we have tried to bring in sensible reforms to the Wild West of online gambling, which is causing untold suffering in communities across our nation. More than a third of a million adults in our country are now diagnosed with a gambling addiction. More than 62,000 teenagers, who in law are not even allowed to gamble, have been diagnosed with a gambling problem. With an estimated more than 400,000 suicides every year due to problem gambling, we need to address this problem in a sensible way. On a number of occasions when I and other noble Lords have raised the issue in the House, the Government have resisted our attempts to bring some order to this sector, simply claiming, “We don’t understand the size of the problem.” The Bill is a proposal for one way of obtaining more data.

Although the first two versions of the Bill included explicit references to gambling, those have now been removed and replaced with a means to record a wide range of causative factors in suicides. Previously there were concerns that the recording of such factors would interfere with the traditional remit of the coroner and the inquest process. Noble Lords will be aware that for centuries coroners have been given the task of answering the questions “Who?”, “What?”, “When?” and “How?” but not “Why?”. That is a criticism that I have taken seriously. I have endeavoured to ensure that the recording of causative factors explicitly occurs following the conclusion of an inquest and will therefore have no impact on the official death certificate or, indeed, the inquest process.

I point out in passing that many coroners, either informally or through the use of a prevention of future deaths report, already comment on the causes of many suicides. For example, Mr Andrew Walker, a senior coroner from north London, has spoken publicly on many occasions recently following the death of Molly Russell, who took her life by suicide. I quote from his statement:

“Molly subscribed to a number of online sites … some of these sites were not safe as they allowed access to adult content that should not have been available for a 14-year-old child to see … Molly had access to images, video clips and text concerning … self-harm, suicide or that were otherwise negative or depressing”.


Even on the train this morning I read another comment by a coroner talking about the question of “Why?” This is something which is happening, and coroners seem to be doing it fairly regularly.

The Bill requires the Secretary of State to draw up guidance on what factors the coroner must consider and the form in which these factors should be recorded. Furthermore, citing fears from coroners that the Bill would oblige them to record a factor or factors in instances where they feel insufficiently able to make that determination, provisions are included to require an option of “no discernible factor” to be included in the guidance.

Obviously, I would expect and hope that gambling-related harm is included as a factor in the Secretary of State’s guidance. Still, the purpose of having the guidance and collection method drawn up by the Secretary of State is to enable a system of generalised data collection which could be streamlined across different coronial jurisdictions. This is crucial, as under Clause 1(6) of the Bill the Office for National Statistics will be required to collect the opinions recorded on the factors causative to suicides in the UK in order to publish them on an annual basis. This information will prove crucial in informing the Government’s suicide prevention programme, alongside the research and work performed by charities and other organisations.

Additionally, new provisions are outlined in Clause 1(7) which prevent information relating to risk factors being released in any way that could lead to the identification of the deceased. Clause 1(8) prevents risk factors collected being used as evidence in any court proceedings. These provisions, though unusual, stem from concerns that the Government had about whether the recording of risk could later be used to attribute civil liability to either individuals or businesses. By preventing the disclosures of identities or the use of risk factors as evidence, this concern would be clearly mitigated.

On the technical aspects of the Bill, these updated provisions create a strong framework to enable the recording of factors causative in a death by suicide without interfering with the coronial process, placing undue responsibilities on the coroner or creating judicial difficulties. I hope that this updated version of the Coroners (Determination of Suicide) Bill will commend itself to His Majesty’s Government and that they too will recognise the importance of collecting information on the risk factors that cause suicide in the UK.

Suicide prevention cannot simply be about interventions to prevent suicide, though I do not discount the importance of this. People rarely commit suicide without reason. In fact, there is nearly always a reason, known in coronial circles as the “causative factor”. It is only by addressing these causative factors that we can have an effective suicide prevention strategy. This necessarily requires accurate knowledge of the main, leading factors driving suicides in the UK today.

A number of Members of your Lordships’ House who are part of Peers for Gambling Reform have argued that one cannot reduce the estimated 409 annual gambling-related suicides—that estimate is by Public Health England—without a comprehensive package of better treatment for those suffering and better regulations to curb the excessive harms caused by online gambling.

In 2020 there were 5,224 suicides in the UK. Aside from age, gender, location and method, we know virtually nothing about the causes, which limits our capability to devise strategies to reduce the number of suicides—something which His Majesty’s Government have committed to doing. This Bill, in a modest way, would enable the accurate recording of risk factors across various coronal jurisdictions in a safe and secure manner, without compromising the identity of the individual or the inquest process.

I recognise that the ability of the coroner to not record anything might limit the accuracy of the data but I am hesitant to place an unfair burden on coroners, and recognise the importance of taking this forward with their support rather than against their will. Nevertheless, the perfect should not be the enemy of the good, and I believe the framework presented in this Bill will provide a good framework for the collection of this information. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

I thank noble Lords for their speeches. I will not go into them in detail, because we hope to come back to this at a later stage, when we can explore them further. I shall just respond to the Minister though, because it seems to me that there is a potential inconsistency in the reasons he has given.

For example, the Minister said that it is very difficult for the coroner to determine “why”. Yet, he conceded in his third point that they are already able to issue the precise reasons why under the prevention of future deaths report, which could not be made unless some sort of view was taken on what had caused the deaths. I totally take the point a number of noble Lords have made, that this is a very inexact way forward; it is certainly not perfect. The Bill has got to its third iteration because at every stage, when people have told me, “I wouldn’t do it like that”, I have asked them how they would do it. I can see all the problems, but I hope that with the help of noble Lords, not least those noble and learned Lords who have brought their considerable legal expertise—I am delighted to have such eminent judges, people who really understand the law, commenting on this—we can improve it.

Our system of taking Bills through Parliament is one of improving them together. I say to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas: let us look at the issue. Is it the Secretary of State or is it the Chief Coroner? Perhaps he could bring us an amendment on that. Let us sort out these problems. These are areas where I have no experience at all; I am just a jobbing Bishop from the sticks. We have these legal experts here who can help us, so I thank them very much and hope they will enable us to improve the Bill as we bring it back.

I want to go back to the basic facts. There are more than 400 suicides a year. We heard stories in the Select Committee of families who have been rent apart and will never be the same. Take the story of Jack Ritchie. His parents have been in this place several times and are now campaigners. Their whole lives have been destroyed, as they watched their son get destroyed. They could see that it was going to happen but felt powerless to do anything. We have to do something. The Bill may not be perfect but, please, let us see what we can do to improve it so that we can get the data to allow us to inform His Majesty’s Government’s suicide prevention strategy—not just on problem gambling but on other forms of addiction and other areas. This could be a significant way forward if your Lordships could help me forge it into something better. I beg to move.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Human Rights Act 1998

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

Thursday 14th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I too thank the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, for securing this debate, and for setting out so clearly many of the great benefits that have been achieved through the Human Rights Act. I will not repeat or elaborate any of those here, and perhaps save a moment or two in so doing.

As neither a legal nor constitutional expert, I am not going to delve into the technical side of the matter, but it is clear to me that this is a discussion not simply about the importance of the Human Rights Act 1998 but about many of the concerns—already raised from different Benches in this House—that noble Lords have with the proposed British Bill of Rights. Before I mention some of my concerns, I commend the introduction of the right to a trial by jury in the updated Bill of Rights Bill. But aside from this one welcome measure, it strikes me that there is a very real danger that the new Bill of Rights may remove levels of accountability from government, particularly in areas such as immigration, which I have an interest in.

Interim decisions by the European Court of Human Rights, such as that which recently prevented the deportation of refugees to Rwanda, will, it appears, become a thing of the past once the 1998 Act is replaced. This Bench has been particularly critical of the Rwanda policy. Recently, the Lords spiritual signed unanimously a letter that spoke of our Christian heritage, which should inspire us to treat asylum seekers with compassion, fairness and justice, and, above all, that when they arrive on these shores they are given due process so that their claims can be examined.

This emphasis is important when we remember one of most influential architects behind the Council of Europe, which drafted the original European Convention on Human Rights. Robert Schuman, drawing on Catholic social teaching, saw the convention as the foundation on which to base the defence of individuals against all tyrannies and against all forms of totalitarianism. What concerns me is that the emphasis on areas such as national sovereignty and the “will of the people”—although there are obviously aspects of those that are good in themselves—means we lose sight of the original impetus behind the foundations of institutions such as the ECHR, which was to protect individuals against abuses from their Governments, something that at the time they were tragically aware of.

The defence of each human being should apply just as much to refugees, even to foreign criminals, and to individuals who have suffered at the hands of the Armed Forces as anyone else. Either they are human rights—universal and overseen by a supranational authority—or they are national rights. I sense that our Government may want to argue for both, when actually we are moving towards the latter.

Our adherence to the 1998 Act is a national choice that Parliament has made, but it is also a convention respected by successive Governments. We can all recall the huge frustration of former government Ministers at not being able to deport individuals they deemed dangerous, but their reaction was not to leave behind this well-established convention that bound us to a higher authority. A convention like this holds weight only so long as it is genuinely respected and supported.

My fear, along with that of many others I know, is that in altering or tinkering with the convention, a precedent is being set that would encourage future Governments to further tinker with our human rights legislation when it conflicts with other agendas. In the UK, Parliament is sovereign, yet it is that sense of long-established convention that prevents any overextension of its authority. Once that convention disappears, there is nothing holding back that sovereign power from acting in the sort of tyrannical manner that Schuman and many others were determined to avoid.

Judicial Review and Courts Bill

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

Report stage
Thursday 31st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendment 21 would ensure that certain safeguards were met before a coroner could discontinue an investigation into a death. Family members and personal representatives of the deceased must be provided with a coroner’s provisional reasons for considering that the investigation should be discontinued, helping to ensure that family members make an informed decision as to whether to consent to the discontinuation.

Amendment 22 would provide that the Lord Chancellor should establish an appeal process for families who disagree with a decision to discontinue an investigation. Amendment 23 would ensure that inquests were not held without a hearing if that was against the wishes of the deceased’s family. Amendment 24 would ensure that certain safeguards were met before a remote inquest hearing is held and that interested persons were provided with the reasons why a remote hearing is to be held. I am glad that the Minister met Inquest and Justice. The amendments, which are in the name of my noble friend Lady Chapman, would address the various perceived shortcomings within the coronial system. I look forward to the Minister’s answer to them.

Amendment 28 would allow coroners to record risk factors relevant in a death by suicide and require the Secretary of State to issue guidance on the risk factors that the coroner must consider and the form in which they are recorded. The right reverend Prelate will speak to his amendment in due course. It is part of his attritional campaign for, often, young men who commit suicide because of gambling habits. I support his intention.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I rise to speak briefly to Amendment 28 standing in my name. I would be grateful if the House would indulge me just for a few minutes. As I explained last week when I was presenting my Private Member’s Bill, Public Health England pointed out that, in just one year, there were 409 suicides related to problem gambling. Your Lordships will be aware that the largest lobby group here in the House is Peers for Gambling Reform. Whenever we have tried to deal with this, one thing we keep hearing back is that we simply do not have the statistics or the data on the various causes of suicide. For some while, I have been trying in every way I can to get at least some data to help us with this so that we can devise strategies to reduce the terrible burden on families who have lost a young person.

The noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, is right that most of those who have taken their lives are young men, but it is now becoming clear that this is quite a significant problem also among younger women. It is partly because the ubiquitous gambling adverts are now spreading into women’s magazines and so on—it is just all over the place.

I shall be brief, because the Minister addressed some of the concerns in responding to my Private Member’s Bill, the Coroners (Determination of Suicide) Bill, last Friday, but there are some important differences in this amendment, which is my attempt to respond to points that the Minister made. Unlike my Bill, the amendment would permit, but not require, coroners to record factors relevant in a death by suicide. Other differences between the amendment and the original Bill include provisions to ensure that the jury would no longer have any say in the consideration and recording of relevant factors and that the consideration and recording of factors by the coroner would now occur outside the inquest process and not disrupt the traditional remit of an inquest to determine how, what, when and where in relation to an unexplained death.

Finally, the amendment would require the Secretary of State to issue guidance on which factors relevant in a death by suicide could be considered and the form in which they would be recorded by a coroner. Strict data protection provisions are included to prevent the identity of the deceased being disclosed or deduced in any way.

Coroners (Determination of Suicide) Bill [HL]

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 25th March 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

That the Bill do now pass.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I shall make just one or two brief comments. I am sure everybody is greatly relieved that the timing is going so well this afternoon, and I really shall not delay your Lordships for too long, but this gives me an opportunity to say one or two brief things and then give some thanks.

The reason behind the Bill is that, seven or eight years ago, a couple came to see me, sat in my study and told me how their son had taken his life because of a gambling problem. The sad thing about that story was the way they talked about the fact that they could see what was happening. He had gone in and out of treatment, but they just could not reach out to him. They knew what was going to happen, and they watched as he slowly spiralled down until that fateful day when he took his life. That led me on a journey. Eventually, we managed to get a Select Committee here. As your Lordships may be aware, Peers for Gambling Reform is now, I think, the largest lobbying group in the House of Lords.

That is what inspired me to work on this; that is the background. It is a very human story. The Bill has what sounds a rather calm, dispassionate title. The issue before us is that, whenever we try to grapple with this, we are told by the Government that we simply do not know the nature and size of the problem. Last year, Public Health England gave the most comprehensive estimate to date of the number of annual gambling-related suicides: 409 in one year. That accounts for 8% of all suicides in 2020.

In the recent inquest into the tragic death of Jack Ritchie, the coroner’s conclusion was that warnings, information and treatment of problem gambling had been “woefully inadequate” and failed to meet Jack’s needs. The coroner said that he could not be blamed for his gambling problem. That brought home to many of us something that we already knew: that many of these online products have been designed to be addictive and are having a devastating impact on people. The suicide headline is just the tip of the problem, but it is the most dreadful part of it.

I have learned an awful lot from putting the Bill forward. I am grateful for the help I have had from other Members of the House, but particularly from the Minister, who very kindly met with me. He has been very honest about the problems he sees with it, and I understand that. If we had had time, I would have brought amendments to address some of those points. I intend to put another Private Member’s Bill in the ballot for the next round, which will be a much broader Bill that will pick up many of the concerns of coroners, some lawyers, and indeed the Government.

Fundamentally however, my motivations behind the Bill have not altered. Suicide is a terrible thing and the best way to tackle it is to identify the underlying causes and put in strategies to address them. So I am grateful for all those who have helped it get this far and I will be returning to this later on. However, with those final words I draw to a close.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I too have no wish to delay the House, but I will say a couple of words to congratulate the right reverend Prelate on the progress he has made with the Bill and on his expressed wish to take the matter further with a further Private Member’s Bill. My experience of Private Members’ Bills is certainly that it is an attritional process that he is engaged in, and I am glad to hear that he is working constructively with the Minister. As we heard in the earlier debate, the Minister is very keen on data and he will no doubt be focusing his question—if I can put it like that—on how the coroners’ service can address the concerns which the right reverend Prelate has quite rightly raised.

The right reverend Prelate told a very moving story when he introduced the debate today and gave some statistics on the reality of addictive online gambling products. I have to say that anyone who has had anything to do with young men will know that such products are absolutely ubiquitously used, and there are all sorts of ways of enticing people into gambling further. So I wish the right reverend Prelate—and the Minister—well with future Private Members’ Bills.

Social Welfare Law Cases: Legal Aid

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, I made a commitment to myself today not to mention the words “Grayling” or “Gray”. What I would say is that, in this area, there is no going back to the pre-LASPO position. What we want to do in other areas of law where LASPO gave people legal aid is to divert them from the courts altogether. For example, in private family cases we have a mediation voucher scheme. We do not want people in court arguing about private family cases; we want them to resolve their problems outside court through mediation.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, it is to be welcomed that there is pilot scheme going on. I am particularly pleased to hear about the mediation scheme, which is crucial to trying to find ways to deal with things one-to-one. Can the Minister say a little more though about what is going on? What I hear from people working in the legal system is that it is absolutely blocked up by people who cannot get advice, or indeed aid, coming with hopeless cases. If only they could be given guidance earlier on, we might be able to solve some of the huge backlog, which is in itself an injustice.

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is right: we want to ensure that people do not go to court when they do not need to. During the pandemic we invested £5.4 million in not-for-profit legal support services, to make sure that people can have access to early legal advice so that only those who need the assistance of a judge go to court.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Lord Bishop of St Albans Excerpts

Lords Hansard - part one & Committee stage
Wednesday 3rd November 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

124: After Clause 54, insert the following new Clause—
“Poaching of game
(1) The Game Laws (Amendment) Act 1960 is amended as follows.(2) In section 2(1), after “committing” insert “, has committed, or is about to commit”.(3) In section 4—(a) in subsection (1)—(i) after “section thirty” insert “or section thirty-two”, and (ii) at the end insert “or any animal, vehicle, or other article belonging to him, or in his possession or under his control at the relevant time.”;(b) in subsection (2), after “gun”, in both places it occurs, insert “, animal,”;(c) at the end insert—“(6) Where a person is convicted of an offence under the Night Poaching Act 1828 or the Game Act 1831, the court may order the offender to reimburse any expenses incurred by the police in connection with the keeping of any animal seized in connection with the offence.”(4) In section 4A(1), for “section thirty of the Game Act 1831 as one of five or more persons liable under that section” substitute “section 1 or 9 of the Night Poaching Act 1828, or section 30 or 32 of the Game Act 1831”.(5) After section 4A insert—“4B Disqualification Orders(1) Where a person is convicted of an offence under either the Night Poaching Act 1828 or the Game Act 1831, the court may, instead of or in addition to dealing with the person in any other way, make an order disqualifying the person from having custody of a dog for such period as the court thinks fit.(2) A person who is disqualified from having custody of a dog by virtue of an order made under subsection (1) may, at any time after the end of the period of one year beginning with the day on which the order was made, apply to the court that made it for a direction terminating the disqualification.(3) On an application under subsection (2) the court may—(a) having regard to the applicant’s character, conduct since the disqualification was imposed, and any other circumstances of the case, grant or refuse the application, and(b) order the applicant to pay all or any part of the costs of the application,and where an application in respect of an order is refused no further application in respect of that order may be made before the end of the period of one year beginning with the day on which the application was rejected.(4) Where a court decides not to make an order under subsection (1) in relation to an offender, it must—(a) give reasons for the decision in open court, and(b) if it is a magistrates’ court, cause the reasons to be entered in the register of proceedings.(5) Any person who has custody of a dog in contravention of an order under subsection (1), is guilty of an offence.(6) Disqualification from having custody of a dog under this section includes disqualifying a person—(a) from owning dogs;(b) from keeping dogs;(c) from participating in the keeping of dogs;(d) from being party to an arrangement under which they are entitled to control or influence the way in which dogs are kept;(e) from dealing in dogs;(f) from transporting dogs;(g) from arranging for the transport of dogs.””Member’s explanatory statement
This new Clause is intended to broaden the powers available to the police and the courts for dealing with illegal hare coursers. Measures include providing for forfeiture of animals on conviction and permitting the recovery of expenses incurred by the police in housing a seized animal.

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[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I declare my interest as president of the Rural Coalition. In moving Amendment 124, I will speak also to Amendment 128 in my name. These amendments seek to strengthen police powers to deal with illegal hare coursing and, more generally, the illegal poaching of game.

Amendment 124 would amend the Game Laws (Amendment) Act 1960 to broaden the police’s powers to remove or arrest an individual trespassing on land where there is clear intent to trespass in pursuit of game, as defined by Section 9 of the Night Poaching Act 1828 and Section 30 of the Game Act 1831. It would also allow the police to seize any vehicles or animals used for the killing or taking of game found in the possession of the trespasser, and would allow the court to order

“the offender to reimburse any expenses incurred by the police in connection with the keeping of any animal seized”.

Further, the amendment seeks to broaden the court’s ability to limit repeated violations by issuing disqualification orders for those individuals convicted under the Night Poaching Act or Game Act for having custody of a dog or dogs.

Amendment 128 would increase the maximum fines for those found trespassing in pursuit of game and remove the distinction between a person and a group of “five or more persons” when determining the severity of a given fine to allow for individual convictions.

The diocese that I serve, which covers Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, Luton and bits of London, includes many rural areas, and I know from conversations with landowners and farmers just what a problem illegal hare coursing is. It is not just the damage to land and property that causes anxiety, it is the threats, verbal abuse, intimidation and violence. This includes metal bearings being fired into tractor cabs; attempts to bribe farmers to allow hare coursing on their land; ringing farmers’ doorbells in the evening when they know that the farmer is out and the wife and children are at home; and direct threats that state that they know where the farmer lives, should the farmer report a hare courser.

One person described coursing as equivalent to being under siege—constantly having to repair damage from break-ins, and being scared for their own safety and that of the farm equipment. It is an illegal and barbaric practice that runs amok across the private property of farmers and landowners and helps facilitate organised crime, through the enormous sums that change hands in high-stake illegal betting.

Before tabling this amendment, I contacted senior members of the Hertfordshire police for their views. One spoke of how this amendment would give them confidence that hare coursing was being taken seriously and that, that being so, one of the most effective preventive tools would be to take the means to commit the offences away from the offenders.

Given the high value of the dogs used by those involved in illegal hare coursing, these amendments seek to address a substantial weakness in the existing law by extending the seizure and forfeiture powers for all poaching offences to include vehicles and dogs. That, alongside court-imposed custody of dog disqualification orders, would create the strongest possible deterrent to illegal hare coursers. These changes would address the current challenge of limited police resources, including having to pay for kennelling costs without being able to reclaim those costs from the offenders.

The current legislative framework for prosecuting hare coursing is failing farmers and landowners and it needs reform urgently. The NFU’s rural crime survey found that 41% of farm businesses had experienced hare coursing in 2020, and that figure went up to 60% in Yorkshire and 67% in East Anglia. I understand that Defra is consulting on provisions that are very similar to the ones outlined in this amendment, and I am encouraged by the comments of the Minister in the other place to the effect that the Government are taking this issue seriously and are committed to introducing new laws to deal with it. However, I am concerned that in the interim farmers and landowners will continue to be harassed, bullied and threatened by illegal hare coursers—and may well be so for another year, or two years, or longer, unless the Government bring forward legislation quickly.

The legislative changes that I am proposing command the support of some of the UK’s largest rural organisations, including the National Farmers’ Union, the Countryside Alliance and the Country Land and Business Association.

Our police and courts need the backing of the law to properly deal with illegal hare coursing and I ask the Minister to provide the Government’s timetable for introducing new laws to better deal with it, unless they are prepared to accept these amendments.

I thank other noble Lords who have signed these amendments, in particular the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, who, due to a clash, is in another debate. The noble Baroness asked me to read out a couple of comments that she was very keen to be made in this debate. “I am delighted,” she writes, “to add my name to this amendment and to lend it my strongest possible support. Tough action must be taken against the despicable crimes of hare coursing and lamping, the latter of which involves perpetrators from built-up areas such as Cleveland and West Yorkshire coming to rural areas, such as North Yorkshire, and leaving deer with such unspeakable injuries that the landowner is obliged to call a vet to put the animals out of their pain.”

“Rural crime,” the noble Baroness goes on, “must be taken more seriously and put on a par with all other crimes, in terms of not just reporting such offences but procuring and punishing the offenders.” She concludes by saying that “rural communities are being neglected, and that that cannot continue.” I am grateful for the support of the noble Baroness and other noble Lords. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I am obviously sorry to have disappointed my noble friend Lord Caithness with that reply, but I can only repeat what I said earlier. I am afraid that these things take time, and the consultations are ongoing. We intend to do something about this problem.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I share the disappointment of the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, because I am unclear exactly what the problem is; I have not heard anything substantive. I know that people working across rural areas in almost every sphere are absolutely passionate and are behind these amendments. There is a huge groundswell. I have been quite surprised, having tabled the amendments, at the appreciative comments from so many different groups. I totally accept that these amendments present only one solution, and I am aware of—and I welcome—the efforts of the honourable Member for North East Bedfordshire, who is an MP in my diocese and tabled the Private Member’s Bill in the other place. I will be meeting him before too long.

With the absence of any government proposals at this stage to deal with the matter, or to give any sort of assurances about timing, I am minded to bring these amendments back at Report. I would, however, be very happy to meet the Minister if that would help, to further discuss these proposals and see if we can find some way forward. With that in mind, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 124 withdrawn.