Protection of Freedoms Bill

Lord Bew Excerpts

Thursday 12th January 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Bew]

My Lords, I rise briefly to support Amendment 148A, in particular, and to make the point even more starkly that in an era when these requests are more and more common, unless some protection for universities, as envisaged in the amendment, comes in, there will be an implicit negative tax on research, as researchers will have to take these possibilities into account. That is the last thing that our universities need at present. I support Amendment 148A very strongly. The real cost of complying with the requests that currently come in is a stark issue.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

My Lords, I, too, rise briefly to support the amendments in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill of Bengarve. My experience now is somewhat dated, but back in the early 1990s I was responsible for supervising a group of researchers putting together a substantial database on bibliometrics. The difficulties of cleaning up such a database are extreme and costly. The group of four young researchers I was supervising worked for two or three years in just cleaning up the database. One issue that we were looking at then was the advantage of concentrating research into large laboratories rather than having a lot of smaller researchers. You cannot do such research until you have cleaned up the database. Someone coming in and using your data is clearly something that we need to protect against. We also need to make sure that the costs involved in putting databases together are fully met.

Human Trafficking (Further Provisions and Support for Victims) Bill [HL]

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Friday 25th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bew]

My Lords, I support the main principles of the Bill of the noble Lord, Lord McColl. I will concentrate my remarks on Clause 11 and the Irish and Northern Irish dimension of this problem, which Clause 11 deals with in a skilful and important way, as an attempt to strengthen the criminal law in Northern Ireland with respect to human trafficking as an offence. In 2007, at the time of the anti-trafficking Operation Pentameter, it was considered that there was in fact no significant problem of human trafficking in Northern Ireland. Since then, however, it has sadly become clear that this is not the case, and that there is a significant problem.

A very important step along the way in increasing public understanding was the publication by the Institute of Conflict Research in 2009 of the document The Nature and Extent of Human Trafficking in Northern Ireland. In June 2010, Mr David Ford, the Justice Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly reported that anti-racketeering officials had rescued dozens of victims of trafficking in Northern Ireland that year. He rightly said that,

“trafficking is nothing less than modern-day slavery”.

Mr Ford has also suggested that Northern Ireland is a staging post for traffickers operating between Scotland and the Republic of Ireland. In September of this year the Press Association drew attention to a joint NSPCC and Barnardo’s report which suggested that Belfast International Airport was indeed being used as a point of entry to the United Kingdom by human traffickers. Belfast was described, in a horrifying phrase, as “a child-trafficking hub”.

There is an additional problem here—the open border that exists with the Irish Republic. In your Lordships’ House there may be a sense of the border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic as something that is closely guarded and monitored. However, in the years since the end of the Troubles that has ceased to be the case. It can be crossed with the greatest of ease by anybody, including human traffickers.

We have to be aware that there is a significant problem in the Irish Republic. Only this week, Marion Walsh, the chief executive of the anti-trafficking unit in the Department of Justice in Dublin, said that since the Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Act 2008 was passed, around 215 serious allegations and cases have come before the Garda, the local Irish police. Why does it matter? It matters precisely because that border is so porous. That is why Clause 11 is so important. It is skilfully drawn and draws attention to the ways in which we can deal with the Irish and Northern Irish dimensions of this problem.

I support the broad principles of the Bill. However, because of our increasing awareness of the particular difficulties that relate to the island of Ireland, I personally want to lay particular emphasis on Clause 11.

Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill

Lord Bew Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[The Archbishop of York]

I, too, as someone who supported the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, in his amendment, believe that it is the duty of the Home Secretary to make the application to the judge and the judge to determine. To bring back relocation would make the case worse—not because we lost the last Vote, but I generally feel that on this particular bit of the Bill the Government have got it right. So I hope that we do not have to go through the Lobby Doors again but that the amendment will be withdrawn. Nothing will cause me greater difficulty in my understanding of British justice than bringing back relocation. That actually causes more difficulty in our communities than anything else. If there is going to be relocation, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, should in his amendment have said that it should be done on the orders of a judge and not the Secretary of State.

I go with the Government on this, as I think they have got it right. Of course, we lost the last and most important amendment, but there we are.

[Lord Bew]

My Lords, I support the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. Coming as I do from Northern Ireland, I regard control orders with great suspicion and concern, as with anything that smacks of internal exile. That is one of the implications of control orders and it is quite right that the House should take an extremely sceptical view of them.

None the less, there are two important considerations, one already alluded to by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, which is the evidence given by the deputy assistant commissioner about the efficacy of control orders. The other crucial point is the recent public debate over concern about security during the Olympics. There is a balance to be struck here, and it is very difficult for the Government to get this right; but this is a very modest request—a timing issue, focused fundamentally and purely on the question of security during the Olympics. For that reason, I favour the terms of the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, I am grateful to have the opportunity to follow the noble Lord, Lord Bew, who has summed up the argument about prudence on this amendment. This is not a new power—it is making available during the Olympics year the existing powers. That is all that it does. It does not create a new power, despite what my noble friend Lord Judd has said. I am very conscious—and I do not think that the Minister answered this point on Second Reading or in Committee—that the power of relocation has been used in a very small number of cases, and it has been used by the present Home Secretary. This is not some hangover from the days of the previous Administration in terms of its use; it has been used by the present Government and the present Home Secretary.

I would like to be satisfied on why the Government think that a power that was used earlier this year, because the Home Secretary considered it necessary on the basis of the information that she had received is no longer necessary in the period during the Olympics when we know that the threat will be extremely difficult. That is extremely important.

Protection of Freedoms Bill

Lord Bew Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bew]

My Lords, I welcome the main thrust of the Bill. With regard to the reform of counterterrorism powers, the Bill has a good balance. I say that as a Member of this House who has had reservations about the control order legislation that the Minister has before the House. In this case, I am glad to say that the Bill has got the balance right between public safety and a proper liberalisation of our law. I welcome what the Minister said about the removal of an historic indignity with respect to the gay community. I regard that as a wise and noble step in the Bill. I should also like to say that the Northern Ireland matters are handled effectively and well, as they touch on many parts of the Bill.

I have one major problem. It touches on matters dealt with in and around Clause 100 on freedom of information and its working with respect to our universities. This has already been referred to by the noble Baronesses, Lady Royall and Lady Hamwee, and I think it will be referred to again before the debate is concluded. I have to declare an interest. My own university, Queen’s University Belfast, has been rather caught up in the toils of this debate, and I am a professor at that university. While I indicate broad support for the Bill, I wish to explain why there is a case for an amendment to it to provide an exception in certain limited circumstances to pre-publication research in universities in relation to Freedom of Information Act requests. A similar exemption already exists, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, said, in Scottish freedom of information legislation, and there is a strong case for looking at that.

In my own university there has been an intense controversy concerning a well publicised case concerning tree ring data, which has very much influenced the public discussion in recent times about the operation of the Freedom of Information Act in universities. That work on tree ring data, while important, is in no way connected with my own work or the work of my own department. However, anybody who works in a university knows that the operation of the Freedom of Information Act has changed the way that we work often in quite difficult and unpredictable ways. Universities have to work within the broad framework of public law in this matter—that is widely accepted—but this is one area where there is genuine concern, shared, for example, by Universities UK. I am confident that there is a need to protect the timing of publication of research information and results. Research is highly competitive in our universities at the moment and it often has a commercial value of some significance. There are delicate issues of timing involved in such matters, and the publication of incomplete data and premature research prior to proper peer review, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has mentioned, may damage the reputation of research in the United Kingdom. Perhaps even more importantly, the premature publication of work that is not properly peer-reviewed and fully examined may harm the interests of the general public themselves. In other words, this is a matter of concern not just for universities but for the general public as well.

The Scottish amendment that has been referred to is in fact a qualified amendment where it has to be shown that disclosure would result in substantial prejudice to the research, to those conducting it or to the university. It is not an absolute exemption. It is a qualified and quite subtle piece of legislation. If the Minister is a fan of the Scottish legislation in other respects, as the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, said, I hope that by the time we conclude our discussion of this Bill he will become a fan of the Scottish legislation in this respect also.

Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill

Lord Bew Excerpts

Wednesday 5th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bew]

My Lords, I, too, welcome the noble Lord, Lord Henley, to his position. However, I speak in this Second Reading with a certain degree of unease. Speaking on these matters in your Lordships’ House on 8 March, I welcomed the projected liberalisations which it was already fairly clear the Government were likely to be proposing in the control orders regime. In particular, I welcomed what was and is being said about relocation, which is almost the heart of the matter with respect to the working of any new legislation. I also welcomed what was and is being said about access to the internet, mobile phones and so on. As the debate has unfolded over the past few months, I am now not quite so sure that I was right to do so.

As far as relocation is concerned, I think I was influenced, as many people from Northern Ireland are, by the jealousy of both sections of the community and irritation about any concept of internal exile, or anything that smacks even remotely of such a concept. For that reason, I still am sympathetic to what the Government are trying to do here, and I respect that it is a very remote connection indeed. While I accept that, even the remotest connotation is something that a modern liberal society should be somewhat afraid of.

However, as the debate has unfolded, I have been struck by some of the evidence that has entered the public domain, particularly that of Deputy Assistant Commissioner Osborne to the Public Bill Committee, as others were. He made the point there that the power of relocation was probably the most effective aspect of the existing control orders regime. I also understand the concern of many others that the police and security services may not be quite ready to cope fully with a deliberate decision to take an increased risk, because that is part of what we are doing here, and we should face up to that. It may be the right judgment, but it is a deliberate decision to take an increased risk.

Partly in response to these concerns, as the debate has unfolded over the past few months, I have been comforted by the Government’s decision to make provision for what the Minister called “additional restrictive measures”—emergency provisions and draft legislation—and their willingness to have pre-legislative scrutiny of them. I fully accept that in some ways, logistically, this is a nightmare—I understand the mockery that the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, indulged in regarding this point—but it at least shows me that the Government have a serious concern for public security, which I find reassuring. Although it is hard to imagine the circumstances now being described in which this new legislative activity might take place, I suspect that Parliament can find a way through. I am willing to trust Parliament’s capacities regarding what is quite a difficult situation to imagine. I suspect that in all likely circumstances Parliament would find a way through, if we came unhappily—and it would be very unhappily and unluckily—to the moment when we had to look at a further ramping up of restrictive measures.

I have a concluding but, I hope, reasonable point about the general tone of public debate about these matters in our country and a rhetoric that assumes that we have a problem with the secret state and that there is a natural unchecked tendency towards authoritarianism, with a particular focus on the fact that Ministers receive advice to which the rest of us are not privy, which creates a major problem or difficulty of trust. It is true that Ministers will receive advice to which the rest of us are not privy, but it seems fundamentally to misrecognise the nature of modern Britain to presume anything other than a commitment to democratic liberal behaviour on the part of Ministers of any party and on the part of those who advise them. I know that this goes against a thousand television scripts and a hundred Guardian articles, but the presumption of guilt is not yet proven.

As an illustration of that, I also make the point that when we discuss these cases—while undoubtedly mistakes are made, because human beings always make mistakes, and of course the control order regime has applied only to small numbers of people—we tend to do so not only without reference to secret advice that we could not have heard or reasonably expect to hear but also while ignoring what is in open-source information about many of these cases, such as High Court documentation. It is remarkable the degree to which, in terms of this civil liberties debate, there is no engagement with what is already in the public domain about many cases.

I shall take one dramatic example of that, a case from the past two years that was taken up by many lobbyists and written about sympathetically in the Guardian and the Independent. It is the case of Mahmoud Abu Rideh, whose control order was revoked in 2009, when he left the country for Syria. There was much discussion in the papers about the mental anguish suffered by this man when he was the subject of a control order and, quite rightly, a human concern about these matters. It is none the less not without significance that in December 2009 an al-Qaeda website announced his death in Afghanistan, saying that sadly he had been martyred. A case of that sort is not without relevance to the whole debate about the level of the threat to public order that we face.

The Bill is a difficult balancing act, you could argue, between different parts of Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. We simply have to accept that. I just hope that the Government have successfully achieved a balancing act between our traditional civil liberties and the needs of public safety.

Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 (Continuance in Force of Sections 1 to 9) Order 2011

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Tuesday 8th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for her earlier statement. I join her in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, for his stewardship of what has been a very sensitive area.

I am reminded of when control orders came about, how they were introduced and the sense of the terrorism that gripped our very shores. I remember 7/7 vividly for various reasons: first, as someone who was travelling at that time; secondly, as someone who would have been impacted directly through both friends and family; and, thirdly, because of what happened in the aftermath when it was perceived that a particular faith or a particular community had indulged in, or been involved in, those acts. For all those reasons, a chill went down my back. It was important at that time that action was taken.

Britain, as many noble Lords have said, is a place of great liberty and freedoms, and that is right. However, the people who enact these crimes or even conceive of them do not respect that. They do not respect these laws, freedoms and liberties. Somewhat ironically, it is the very freedoms that are provided by our country that allow them, not to act, but to conceive of acting in that way.

We have heard from many noble Lords that control orders are not the perceived way forward. The Government accept that; indeed, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has said that quite clearly. However, I am concerned. Until the revisions are introduced, what is the option? What do we do in the interim? The threat of terrorism is alive today. If we cast our mind across the world to Pakistan, in Faisalabad today there has been yet another terrorist attack. As the Minister has said, this is not a threat just to the UK; it is a threat internationally, and we must react to it. Britain is a great place for civil liberties and freedoms, but equally the first responsibility of the Government must be to the citizens and residents in this great country—to protect their freedoms and their rights, yes, but also their safety and security.

While the extension of control orders is not perceived in this House as welcome, until we fill that vacuum there is an absolute need to ensure that our citizens are protected. I am sure that as the new legislation comes forward there will, with the wisdom possessed by this House, be robust debate. For tonight, though, I support the Minister in ensuring that control orders are extended to protect that majority. It is the exception who fall victim to control orders, but the majority must be protected. I lend my support to the extension of these orders, with the hope that the new legislation that we will see will be right for Britain and will continue to protect the residents and citizens of our country.

[Lord Bew]

My Lords, I would like to thank the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones, for introducing this statutory instrument, which has of course a narrow, technical and short-term focus. In doing so, she displayed her customary vigilance in these matters. I am happy to support the instrument and, indeed, the Government’s plans for liberalisation in this area. Like other noble Lords, I particularly welcome the decision to increase access to internet and mobile phones under certain conditions for those affected by these orders, and I am glad, too, that the ability to relocate terrorist suspects in new areas will in all likelihood go. These are necessary, explicable and entirely defensible liberalisations.

We have heard much tonight about the case made by Liberty in a very fine document sent to many noble Lords, but I simply want to make one point on the other side of the argument regarding the extent to which all of this is shrouded in mystery. I simply think that it is possible for all of us to read some of the open-source evidence, including the High Court documentation, on these matters. If one does so, it is much more difficult for one to say that what is at stake here is a mystery of some sort. In fact, there is a significant amount of evidence in the public domain. Perhaps this bears on the argument about the role of the security forces in making a case behind the scenes—no doubt that goes on in all Governments—but, even without access to that sort of information and discussion, which most of us do not have, there is none the less a lot of material in the public domain that the Government have to take seriously. That is a balancing point that is worth making.

I am happy to support this temporary instrument as a necessary measure for public protection.

[Baroness Hamwee]

My Lords, the Minister started by giving the context for this order; my personal context falls into two parts. Like the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, the events of 7 July 2005 had an enormous impact on me personally, as much as on anyone who was not actually on one of the tube trains or on the bus. In addition, I am hugely aware of the capacity for restrictive measures to act as a recruiting sergeant for actions that seek to achieve destabilisation and that rack up calls for more measures that are contrary to our democratic principles. I have said that because I do not want what I will go on to say to be thought of as being a sort of hearts-and-flowers approach.

The points made in the report done by my noble friend Lord Macdonald of River Glaven and in the recent report by the Joint Committee on Human Rights are issues that I hope the Government take on board in the next stage of dealing with these matters. I hope that both reports will feed into the final design of the measures. Like others, I will not attempt to cover all the ground tonight, but I will make a number of points on which I personally feel particularly strongly.

Respecting the principles of the rule of law and, to the greatest extent possible, applying the normal principles and processes of the criminal law and the criminal justice system are to me, as to other noble Lords, fundamental and indeed essential. I mention simply these requirements: due process within the criminal justice system; judicial, not executive, action; special advocates—the noble Lord, Lord Judd, talked of how what they are required to do is alien to their professional training, but I suspect that it is alien to their instincts as well; the role of the DPP; and that the new measures should be a point on a road to prosecution rather than an end in themselves, which the Minister this evening has confirmed is the objective.

On the issue of curfew, as my noble friend’s report recommends—I will put it more crudely than he did—giving those who are suspected of terrorist activity enough rope to hang themselves is in itself very persuasive, quite apart from the other issues. On the objections to curfews, both in principle and in practice, I have to say that I have never been persuaded that ordering someone to stay at home for up to 16 hours a day would deter him if he was determined to commit terrorist actions. Like others, I am pleased to hear that relocations are to cease. Can the Minister tell us any more about that? A residence requirement, which I hope will mean a requirement just to have a normal residential address, is not a curfew and I hope that such a requirement will not come anywhere near being a curfew.

It is important that, as far as possible, the new measures allow the person subject to them, and, importantly, his family, to get on with life. I have read comments by someone who was subject to a control order saying that the arrangements for signing in at a police station could not have precluded work or study more, and that they made normal life completely impossible. Points have been made around the House about the Government reviewing the current orders now and relaxing the regime to one that they have already decided is appropriate. The noble Baroness, Lady Afshar, asked the Minister whether it is the case that a young man and his family have been relocated in only the past few days.

In evidence to the JCHR the Minister argued that, despite there being lower numbers of controlees compared with the past, resources for surveillance are not currently adequate to reduce numbers to the level that several noble Lords have described. That may be something that the independent reviewer will be able to consider. No doubt there will be a review before we get to the end of this process. Like others, I hope that there is wide consultation on the legislation and the draft emergency legislation, which the Government propose to create and keep on the stocks in case it is needed. Confining consultation on that to the Opposition on Privy Council terms would not garner the expertise that is available to the Government.

Terrorism Act 2006 (Disapplication of Section 25) Order 2010

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Monday 19th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmed]

My Lords, in her opening speech, the Minister mentioned terrorism in Northern Ireland, Islamist terrorists and al-Qaeda Islamist terrorists. I am a little confused. Will she explain the difference between all these terrorists?

[Lord Bew]

My Lords, I support the Minister with great pleasure because she has over many years now had a fine record of circumspect vigilance, if I could put it like that, in this field. In putting forward this order today, she is exhibiting that same quality of circumspect vigilance. In recent weeks, we have seen the broad outlines of a new government policy on terrorism. On the one hand we have seen a more liberal approach, with an attempt to remove irritations that communities feel with some aspects of policy, and on the other an attempt to draw a firm line with respect to extremist ideologues, symbolised by the action taken by the Home Secretary in the middle of last month over the visit of Zakir Naik. I wish the Government well with this subtle balancing project.

Some of the discussion that is now going on about the strong and realistic possibility that in some months’ time we will move from 28 days to 14 seems to be a little unrealistic and utopian. It is based to some degree—not for the first or last time—on a forced and false analogy with Northern Ireland. It is true that the internment policy, which was introduced in mid-1971, was a failure, but we must remember that, although it was phased out in the mid-1970s, terrorism went on for another 20 years and is not to this day fully extinguished in Northern Ireland. It is important not to have exaggerated expectations for the impact of any move from 28 to 14 days, because it is clear, as all serious practitioners acknowledge, that the issues of the illiberality or incipient authoritarianism, alleged or practical, of our modern state are not the ones that motivate those who involve themselves in terrorism.

There is a more complicated question about the broader communities that may or may not have what is called in Ireland a sneaking regard for terrorism. Here again, it is clearly the case that the Government must take a careful look at what the state does. However, the truth is that what modern states, even the most liberal and sophisticated, do in the face of terrorism is to a degree always clumsy. It is also the case that it is not quite as important in the evolution of communal attitudes as many believe. The tragedy of terrorist acts is that they force members of the community either to identify with them or, in an act of great moral courage, to say no to them. There is something polarising about these acts that forces communities into a position either of denial or—to use the Irish phrase again—of sneaking regard. Therefore, the fundamental thing has to be to stop terrorism, because those actions are the driver of the process, rather than the inevitable, clumsy and inadequate acts of the state. I guarantee that if we go to 14 days, within two or three years something else that the state is doing will be said to be inflaming communal sentiment. For those reasons of caution, I welcome the circumspect vigilance that characterises the approach to these matters of the noble Baroness and I am glad to support the order.

[Baroness Hamwee]

My Lords, the extension of 14 days to 28 started as a temporary measure and remains temporary; we need to remember that. However, the extension even to 14 days in the parent legislation was an extension from the original four. Fourteen days is exceptional in every sense of the word and 28 days more so. The noble Lord, Lord Newton, referred to drift. I entirely agree with him. It is important that renewal does not become routine and that the reasons for renewal are not merely a parroting of what has gone before. The measures taken over the past few years have too often been knee-jerk.

This occasion is different. Were it not so, I would have encouraged colleagues to vote against the order. Liberal Democrats have consistently opposed 28 days. It may be a disadvantage to be tidy-minded, but I see the logic of not pre-empting the review of counterterrorism powers—not just the headline powers of control orders, detention without charge, deportation with assurances and so on, but how the powers relate to one another and all the underlying measures and mechanisms that are available or that might be made available. These were listed in your Lordships’ House when the Minister announced the review. In all this, I stress the role of the judiciary in allowing an extension of detention without charge and in post-charge interviews. It would be helpful if the Minister could tell us about the bringing into force of, I think, Section 22 of the 2008 legislation.

Reference has been made to the mechanisms available in other jurisdictions. I hope that the review that will come out of the Home Office in due course will explain the differences between the different jurisdictions. I entirely take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord West, that one cannot look at the period of detention without charge in isolation from all the other mechanisms used by the different jurisdictions, as these matters are not easily transferable. However, for those of us who are concerned with this whole area, it would be helpful to have the distinctions spelled out so that we are clear about them.