Warm Home Discount (England and Wales) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Best and Lord Teverson

Monday 20th June 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Best (CB)]

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the powerful commentary of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering. I declare my interest as president of the Sustainable Energy Association, and I take this opportunity to thank the Minister for a very engaging and encouraging speech at our annual reception last month.

While welcoming the new measures, I am asked to raise the position of the more than 500,000 private renters whose landlords manage their bills. When it comes to accessing the £150 the warm home discount affords, these 585,000 people may be barred from applying as they do not pay their energy supplier directly as the WHD stipulates. There is no legal requirement for landlords to pass on the energy grant to their tenants, and there seems to be a lack of guidance on how the process should be managed by landlords. By extension, this would be the case for the £400 energy grant which the Government will be offering this October. This can be a particular problem for those living in park homes, where the site owner pays for the energy supply and passes on costs to the residents. I believe Sir Peter Bottomley MP has been in touch with the Minister on this subject. Can the Minister share plans for ensuring that the warm home discount directly supports those who are in need of its help but who do not pay their suppliers directly? Will the Government be providing any guidance to enable fair management of the moneys by the landlords involved?

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, who asked excellent questions, particular the question about park homes. There are some 85,000 residents in park homes in this country, and they do not always have the sort of landlords we would like them to have. They are a big issue generally.

Although I welcome this secondary legislation in principle, it is worth noting that this is a reflection of a policy failure over decades, in that we have such a requirement to help people with energy bills because our housing stock is nowhere near the standard it should be. All this, including the £15 billion being spent by the Treasury on the cost of living, specifically around energy issues, is about standing still rather than investing in the future. I know the Minister will say that the Government are investing, but it is a trickle in comparison to what we need. Past Governments have been equally bad at resolving that. This is a symptom of a policy failure over decades in this country.

I shall ask a couple of technical questions on this and will then come on to one or two other things. The figure that rather shocked me—it may be because I misunderstand it—is in paragraph 7.2 on page 3 of the Explanatory Memorandum:

“The Impact Assessment models an improvement to the fuel poverty targeting rate of the scheme from 39% to 47%.”


Does that mean we have moved getting it wrong to 61% from to 53%? I would like to understand that. I remember going through these statutory instruments for Governments, and I understand the problem of trying to target these things correctly and that somehow the statistics or working with data from other departments does not work. But it is worth understanding whether that figure is what I understand it to be and how we improve that for the future because, my goodness, if that is it, we certainly need to improve it.

The next page refers to an algorithm that there were the largest concerns about. We all know the problem with algorithms. They can be great things but, as the Department for Education found out on A-level results, they can be disastrous. I am interested to understand what that issue was and whether it was resolved or was altered in the final prospectus.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Best, what I do not understand—the Minister will forgive me if I have missed it—is how private renters get their money back from prepaid meters. It seems straightforward when the core group are just paid the electricity on their bills. What happens in terms of prepayment meters?

I want to ask about one more thing before a more general point. This is for England and Wales; it talks about Scotland coming on later on but Northern Ireland is not mentioned. Northern Ireland has a much higher rate of fuel poverty than England and Wales—18% historically, though I am sure it will be a lot larger by the end of this year. We do not have a functioning Executive or Assembly in Belfast. Can the Minister say whether the Government will have to legislate directly regarding schemes over there or are schemes that have already been agreed carrying on? Clearly, fuel poverty is a big issue in Northern Ireland.

Lastly, I have a more general question for the Minister. We had an announcement today—it came through on the news—that, rightly, the Government wanted to protect the additional money paid by consumers to retail energy companies that tended to get washed out when they went bankrupt. The answer seemed to be—I know that news reporting is not necessarily accurate—to ensure that the balance sheets of these companies were better in order to solve it. If a company goes into administration, it goes into administration; the balance sheet is washed out automatically in that case. Why cannot we put that money into an escrow account or find some way in which that can be isolated from the company and remains the consumers’ money in trust? I do not understand why that is not a way forward. If the Minister could give me some clue on that, I would be very grateful.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Best and Lord Teverson

Monday 24th January 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Teverson]

My Lords, I am a landlord—very much in the line that the noble Lord, Lord Best, described of one property, but I thought that I should declare that interest in this debate.

[Lord Best]

I shall just add another statistical piece of information. Some 40 per cent of tenants move within a year of the occupation of their home. In principle, the idea of consulting with the residents of a place before you start doing anything to it is entirely right, but we have a big transient population in the private rented sector. My other point is that, although you could consult the first occupier, the debt is taken on and lasts 25 years. In almost no cases will the same person be there for all that period, and you are not able to consult people further down the line about a decision taken by an earlier tenant. Although I sympathise with the sentiment that one should consult with the tenants, this is possibly impractical.