Drug Driving (Specified Limits) (England and Wales) Regulations 2014

Lord Berkeley Excerpts

Thursday 24th July 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I have a question or two for the Minister on these draft regulations. I am glad that he had difficulty pronouncing the names of some of those controlled drugs, because I certainly would.

First, I think that it is a very good thing that the regulation is being brought in; we have all been debating for years having some limit for driving under the influence of drugs, as we once had for a long time for drink. How will these drugs be detected? Can it be done at the roadside, or will you have to go back to a police station, with all the fuss that that entails? Who can stop, detect and, if necessary, charge a driver? Presumably, PCSOs cannot; they can fine only bicycles and not cars anyway, but it would be interesting to have an answer for that. My third and most important question arises because 16 different drugs are listed here. Surely if you mix the lot, it is a bit more serious, even if it is under the limit, than if you just take one. I know nothing about it at all, but how will that be dealt with? If you exceed the limit on none of them but mix them all together, you might still be under the influence. No doubt the expert panel has considered that, and I would be glad to hear the Minister’s comments.

[Lord Whitty (Lab)]

My Lords, I am pleased to see greater specification in this area, but I am slightly confused about both how the levels apply and how we will deal with issues such as those raised by my noble friend. Clearly, a cocktail of these drugs, if three or four are detected, is more dangerous than the level for a single one. I do not know any more about it than my noble friend.

[Lord Berkeley]

Yes you do, you were a Minister once.

[Lord Whitty]

When I was a Minister, I was certainly not allowed to know a lot about it. However, some of them are more detectable than others. Included in the list—I will not attempt to spell it out—are drugs that relate to cannabis. The problem with cannabis is that it stays in the system for a very long time but is probably not active after a few hours. Therefore, it is difficult to treat in the same way as, for example, cocaine or diazepam. I wonder whether the same process of testing applies to all the drugs. I also wonder whether the reason why what I regard as unfortunate the changes in relation to alcohol detection—trying to simplify the roadside and the police station tests, thereby laying them open to challenge rather more than the present system—applies also to these drugs tests. Some drugs are detectable at the roadside, as I understand it; others are not.

As a throwaway question, as the Government are addressing those limits, why on earth are they not addressing the current alcohol limit, which is still probably the greatest—even if, thankfully, declining—cause of major accidents due to drugs in this country? Our level is considerably higher than that in almost every other European country.