European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Bassam of Brighton and Lord Newby

Wednesday 21st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby (LD)]

It is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, and others who have spoken. Normally, when something is about consequential and transitional provisions, your eyes glaze over, because what you are talking about is the sort of sweepings from the floor, in the legislative sense. But this is the most extraordinarily broad provision. It basically says that a Minister of the Crown can, by regulations, change virtually any provision in any Act.

As the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, pointed out, and as we have discussed, the effect of our membership of the EU has been like the tide rising across the legislative framework. It has gone into virtually every part of our legislative life. This provision, untrammelled as it is with any qualification at all, enables Ministers to amend by secondary legislation a whole swathe of legislation that is not directly covered by the earlier clauses of the Bill. No doubt the drafters of the Bill thought that this was a sort of belt and braces provision, because it covers everything else that might not have been covered by earlier clauses. However, as other noble Lords have said, it is surely far too broad.

The key definitional question is what the word “consequential” means. On a broad interpretation of it, any legislation that is consequential on our membership of the EU is covered by this provision, which is surely far wider than anybody in your Lordships’ House would wish to see. I hope that the noble Lord will be able to reassure us that, first, that was not the Government’s intention and, secondly, that they are willing to accept the recommendations of the two committees of your Lordships’ House. As this stands, of virtually all the provisions in the Bill, this is the one that gives Ministers the broadest unfettered powers to change primary legislation by secondary legislation and it clearly is not the will of the House that that should be allowable.

[Lord Bassam of Brighton]

I was sort of reassured by some of the Minister’s words when we were dealing with the last group. I had the feeling that at last we have found a Minister on the Front Bench who is actually listening to what noble Lords are saying about some of the delegated powers provisions in the legislation. I hope that he can offer us some reassurance, but I share the concerns of the noble Lords, Lord Newby, Lord Pannick and Lord Lisvane, and my noble friend Lord Liddle.

Ministers are seeking to take an astonishingly wide power. If we start to apply it practically to some of the legislation being carried over from EU to UK law and think of some of the fundamental rights that that involves, and if Ministers then have the sweeping ability to bring forward anything that they think is relevant to change one of those provisions, we are getting into the territory of a statutory instrument that goes far beyond its original intention. The Constitution Committee was absolutely right to raise concerns about this and we need rather more than reassurance this morning on it. I rather share the view of the noble Lord, Lord Cormack: this is one clause that is probably fit to be withdrawn. I think that that would satisfy your Lordships’ House. We obviously have to listen to what the Minister has to say, but this is pretty profound, as I think he and the Government know. I hope that this is a try-on that we have seen off.

Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Temporary Class Drug) (No. 3) Order 2015

Debate between Lord Bassam of Brighton and Lord Newby

Tuesday 22nd December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the gracious comments from the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, whose company in the usual channels I greatly enjoy and for whom I have a great deal of affection and respect. It is always difficult praising the Government Chief Whip because there is the worry that too much praise will lead to them being reshuffled and I would not want that to happen, so I will draw those comments to a close.

I also pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Newby, with whom I have many fruitful and useful conversations, sometimes of a conspiratorial nature. Colleagues around the House will appreciate why. I thank the Cross-Benchers for the important work that they do. I know that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, is carrying on the fine traditions left to him by the noble Lord, Lord Laming.

As the Chief Whip said, this is a time of year when we should reflect and give thanks to people for the hard work that they do on behalf of the House. The House would not work if it were not for the doorkeepers, the attendants, the clerks, the cooks, the bar staff, the cleaners, the conservators, the technicians, the police, the librarians, the researchers and many others. As he rightly said, we would not operate as Front-Benchers terribly well if we did not have professional and dedicated staff of our own. Our own Labour Lords group is a brilliant team. Its members have had the disappointment of being on the bad end of a general election this year, and I pay tribute to their professionalism and the determination with which they have carried out their duties since and for the high-quality work they do. That has enabled us to be a very effective Lords Opposition, but a constructive one nevertheless.

I have a number of colleagues to whom I want to draw particular attention in paying tributes. I know some of them better than others, but all of them have given great service to your Lordships’ House. The first is Mr Dick Edwards, who retired in July having joined the doorkeeper cadre in 2002. Prior to that, Dick completed a full career in the Metropolitan Police, and part of his service was spent in the coroner’s office. On occasions when he and his colleagues knew that new police constables were paying their first visit to the mortuary, they would lay on the slabs, cover themselves with white sheets and suddenly sit up. Needless to say, from their point of view it had the desired effect—humour at its best. In October, Dick and his wife, June, flew to Australia where they have a daughter and grandchildren who live on the outskirts of Sydney, so after a great deal of touring, they will all spend the festive period together. “When will Dick return?” you may ask As yet, he has not booked a return flight, but I am told that as he is a season ticket holder at Arsenal Football Club, he will return to see them lift the Premier League trophy; that could be some time off. Anyway, that is what he thinks, apparently. As a Brighton & Hove Albion fan, I hope to obstruct Arsenal’s path next year.

Mr Tony Hanlon joined the doorkeeper cadre in 2006. Prior to joining the House, Tony completed a full career in the London Fire Brigade. On one occasion, Tony and his crew were called out to a fire at an elderly lady’s house. Tony and his colleagues rescued the lady. However, she refused to leave without her budgie, so Tony re-entered the house to rescue the said budgie and, as they say, everyone lived happily ever after. After those excitements, Tony now lives quietly in Harrow with his wife, Heather.

Mr Dave Stollery retired in September as a senior doorkeeper. Dave joined the doorkeepers in October 1996. Prior to that, Dave completed a full military career in the Royal Marines. Indeed, he was the first person to be appointed the corps sergeant major of the Royal Marines. It is said that during the World Cup in 1966, Dave was on jungle warfare training. On the day of the final, he and another marine were sent out as sentries down a track away from the main base. Not wishing to miss this most patriotic of moments in the cup final, he managed to tune his radio into the World Service, which was covering the game. History does not record if doing that blew his cover, but of course we all know that the match had a successful result. Dave lives in Norfolk with his wife Shirley in a house he designed and built himself. On retirement from his military career and his service in your Lordships’ House, Dave had given in total to us as a nation more than 50 years’ loyal service, something that I think very few in public service would be able to celebrate.

Finally, I want to pay tribute to Jackie Mouzouros. She retires this Christmas Recess having served as a doorkeeper since February 2000. On joining the House, Jackie was a judicial doorkeeper, and along with her colleagues she helped to ensure that all cases heard by the Law Lords went smoothly. Nothing was too much trouble for her and this was greatly appreciated by the Law Lords. On the formation of the Supreme Court, Jackie declined the option to move with the Law Lords and she joined the rest of the doorkeepers. She has been a much valued member of the team and the traits and good habits that she developed while working with the Law Lords have continued to give great service to your Lordships’ House. I know that Jackie will be greatly missed by her colleagues, but as she lives only in Pimlico, we hope that she comes and visits all her friends on a regular basis.

Staff tributes are very important and we know that we would be the poorer without the good quality staff we have. Like the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, I wish all in your Lordships’ House a very merry Christmas and a happy new year. I hope that everyone celebrates and gets some rest over what is a pleasantly lengthy vacation from the arduous task of scrutinising our business.

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, I start by echoing that last sentiment of the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, about the importance of the smooth running of the usual channels. It is, of course, somewhat strange, having spent a very happy time as co-conspirator with the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, to be now spending a certain amount of time, with mixed success, planning his and his colleagues’ downfall. It is, however, a source of continuing pleasure to work with the noble Lord, and indeed with the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, in such a civilised way, even though we often disagree on matters of great importance to the country. However we manage to do it in what I suspect most people would think of as in the best traditions of the House of Lords.

I, too, am paying tribute to several staff who have served your Lordships’ House very well. Zulmiro Trigo, known to her colleagues and your Lordships as Zizzi, started in the House of Lords in September 1997 as a member of the service team. She worked in all areas, including the Home Room, Attlee Room, Cholmondeley Room and Terrace, the Peers’ Dining Room and Gift Shop. She retired in April and is now enjoying life between Portugal and UK with her husband Umberto who also retired in April.

Umberto himself joined the House in November 1999 and worked as a waiter in banqueting in all areas, including the Attlee Room, the Cholmondeley Room and Terrace, and also the River Room. We wish them both very well.

Oye Acolatse joined the House in January 1993 as a junior chef working in the main kitchen. She worked in all areas and then specialised in the very busy pastry section for a number of years working as chef de partie—and winning the department’s employee of the year award in 2007. She was promoted to lead the section as sous chef in 2008 and decided to retire in April this year after 22 years’ valued service to the House to spend time with family and friends.

Biagio Lammoglia joined the House in June 1993 as the manager of the Peers’ Dining Room, the Peers’ Guest Room and Bishops’ Bar. He was a House of Lords institution. He was a valued member of the senior catering and retail services management team and shared his many years of experience in other areas of the department, as well as running a tight ship in the Principal Floor outlets.

As a new Member to your Lordships’ House, I was rather in awe and dread of Biagio because I felt that I probably already had broken, or was about to break, one or more of the rules of protocol in the Peers’ Guest or Dining Room. Of course, when I did, Biagio was always far too polite to point it out. But my sense of foreboding never completely disappeared. Biagio retired in July this year and is now spending time between Italy and the UK with family and friends.

James—Jim—Donoghue joined Lords Hansard in December 1984, having previously worked as a reporter in the law courts and Commons Hansard, and, after 31 years, retired in May. When live television broadcasting of the Lords began in January 1985, he was the first ever Hansard reporter to appear on television.

Jim still recalls an alarming encounter he had in the Chamber with Lord Denning, the recently retired Master of the Rolls. During the passage of the Education (Corporal Punishment) Bill, Lord Denning raised the legal definition of “battery”, and said:

“We have to go to the common law to know what is battery. The least touching of another person is a battery. So I just have to put my hand on the shoulder of the Hansard writer, like this, and I would be guilty of a battery”.—[Official Report, 4/6/85; col. 622.]

Jim was the Hansard writer in question, and vividly remembers the force that Lord Denning used to make his point; fortunately, no lawsuit resulted.

Jim was an assistant editor on his retirement and said at his retirement party that he would miss the chimes of Big Ben on the quarters and on the hour, the beauty and serenity of Westminster Hall, and listening to the parliamentary choir through the Hansard office window as it rehearsed. He also shared that he would not miss annual appraisals, Thursday debates—which seemed to go on for ever—or waiting for the lift to the third floor, West Front. He calculated that during the 31 years he worked here, he spent eight months waiting for it. We certainly have sympathy with some of those sentiments!

Since retiring, Jim has been indulging his passions for travel and good food and wine, and spent four months in Greece. Jim’s hard work, passion for detail and rich grammatical knowledge are a big loss to the Hansard team, and he is sorely missed.

I have read out several tributes but the qualities of the staff to whom I have just referred apply to all the staff in your Lordships’ House and we wish them a peaceful Christmas and happy new year.

Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill

Debate between Lord Bassam of Brighton and Lord Newby

Monday 11th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

As my noble friend the Chief Whip said last week, she was willing to hear alternative proposals from the Opposition Chief Whip about legislation for next Monday. As far as I understand, no proposals came forth. If the Opposition Chief Whip has some new proposals that he wants to make, obviously my noble friend’s door is always open. However, it is now very late and potentially unfair to people whose legislation might be coming next week to suggest changing the business for next Monday now.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Bassam of Brighton) (Lab)]

Would the noble Lord be prepared to consider some changes at this late stage, because I am sure we could have some further discussion on this?

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, the usual channels are always open.