Parliamentary Partnership Assembly
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack(2 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, before I speak to the Motion, I extend my condolences to the family and friends of my late noble friend Lord Denham who, as the Lord Speaker announced earlier, died at the weekend. Lord Denham served this House with great distinction for more than 70 years, including as Government Chief Whip for 12 years.
The Motion standing in the Leader’s name invites the House to agree in principle to its participation in the EU-UK Parliamentary Partnership Assembly, or PPA. The House of Commons agreed a Motion in the same terms on Monday this week, and the European Parliament decided its intention to participate on 5 October. The House of Lords Commission discussed the participation of this House at its meeting on 16 November and in its first report of this Session set out some background to help inform the House’s decision today. That report was published on 25 November.
The Motion is the culmination of many months of careful and patient dialogue between the two Houses and with the European Parliament, much of which has been carried out on behalf of this House by the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull. I would like to put on record my thanks for the work that he and his team have done to help get the PPA off the ground. I beg to move.
Lord Cormack (Con)
Would it not be very appropriate if, on this occasion, those Members from this House and the other were elected by their colleagues?
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, this is not a Committee of the House. This is the way that all parliamentary delegations are appointed, and we see no reason why this should be different from the NATO Parliamentary Assembly or the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.
Arrangement of Business
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Chief Whip for his statement, which was helpful to the House. I will just add that he sounded a bit waspish at times. I am sure that he did not mean to. Parliament and legislation benefit from the kind of dialogue and debate that we have had around this legislation, and I hope that the Government found that helpful. I do not think that this House has ever not accepted the primacy of the Commons. We do, however, sometimes suggest that perhaps we have better ideas and the Commons might not always get it right first time. We play our part in legislation, therefore, in the normal way, and I am grateful to the noble Lord for the time he has given us this evening.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, as one who believes very strongly in both Houses and has now done nearly 51 years in Westminster, I strongly support my noble friend’s position, much as I admire what the noble Baroness the Leader of the Opposition said. It is right that we should ask the Commons to think again, and again—and sometimes again. There comes a point, however, and the eve of Prorogation certainly is one, when we have to decide whether we wish the Bills to go forward or not. I have many criticisms of all of them, but at the end of the day the primacy of the House of Commons should prevail, and I very much hope that there will not be any more Divisions this evening.
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their views. I think that ultimately we are all agreed that, although we accept the primacy of the Commons, in many of these Bills the Government have made concessions, which is just as it should be: many Bills, if not all Bills, are improved in this House. I hope that that will be the case here. I agree with my noble friend that we should finish it tonight.
Arrangement of Business
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, does the Government Chief Whip agree that this is going to cause tremendous problems for people working remotely, and that it underlines the unsatisfactory nature of hybrid proceedings? How are they going to find time or know how they can table amendments within that one-hour period? Will the Government Chief Whip, through the usual channels, look at every possible way to get this House back to working normally, so that everyone can participate fully—particularly during this time of ping-pong, which is a very important time for final discussion and debate on vital amendments? People who are not able to come here in person are at a real disadvantage. I hope the Government Chief Whip will use the usual channels to find a way to get us back to normal as quickly as possible.
Lord Cormack (Con)
Further to what my noble friend the Chief Whip has said, would he accept that it is essential that, from 21 June at the latest, it is expected that parliamentarians should be in Parliament? We should conduct business as normally as possible, in a self-regulating House, from that date. Could my noble friend give an assurance that that is indeed what the Government wish to do?
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, I take the point that it is difficult at this stage with short timetables. Noble Lords do not have very much time to table amendments, but I think that is always the case in ping-pong: it comes back at short notice between the two Houses. It is the way that we have to resolve issues between the two Houses. To a certain extent, whether this happens is not entirely in the gift of the Government —it depends on how long amendments keep on being pushed. I accept that it is difficult and that the hybrid House is not completely as we want it. However, given the circumstances of the pandemic, it is a tribute to the House and the officials who run it that we are able to do business at all. This has been a tremendous achievement and we have done it as well as, if not better than, the other place.
Both noble Lords made a point about coming back to “normal”. I absolutely agree that we want to come back to normal as soon as possible. That is not entirely a matter for the Government or the Chief Whip, because this is a self-regulating House. We have to look at the data and wait for the social distancing review—that is the absolutely critical matter in coming back. As far as the Government and the Leader are concerned, I can say that we want to come back. I agree with my noble friend that parliamentarians should be in Parliament.