Parliamentary Partnership Assembly

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 8th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, before I speak to the Motion, I extend my condolences to the family and friends of my late noble friend Lord Denham who, as the Lord Speaker announced earlier, died at the weekend. Lord Denham served this House with great distinction for more than 70 years, including as Government Chief Whip for 12 years.

The Motion standing in the Leader’s name invites the House to agree in principle to its participation in the EU-UK Parliamentary Partnership Assembly, or PPA. The House of Commons agreed a Motion in the same terms on Monday this week, and the European Parliament decided its intention to participate on 5 October. The House of Lords Commission discussed the participation of this House at its meeting on 16 November and in its first report of this Session set out some background to help inform the House’s decision today. That report was published on 25 November.

The Motion is the culmination of many months of careful and patient dialogue between the two Houses and with the European Parliament, much of which has been carried out on behalf of this House by the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull. I would like to put on record my thanks for the work that he and his team have done to help get the PPA off the ground. I beg to move.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Would it not be very appropriate if, on this occasion, those Members from this House and the other were elected by their colleagues?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, this is not a Committee of the House. This is the way that all parliamentary delegations are appointed, and we see no reason why this should be different from the NATO Parliamentary Assembly or the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.

Arrangement of Business

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 28th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Chief Whip for his statement, which was helpful to the House. I will just add that he sounded a bit waspish at times. I am sure that he did not mean to. Parliament and legislation benefit from the kind of dialogue and debate that we have had around this legislation, and I hope that the Government found that helpful. I do not think that this House has ever not accepted the primacy of the Commons. We do, however, sometimes suggest that perhaps we have better ideas and the Commons might not always get it right first time. We play our part in legislation, therefore, in the normal way, and I am grateful to the noble Lord for the time he has given us this evening.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as one who believes very strongly in both Houses and has now done nearly 51 years in Westminster, I strongly support my noble friend’s position, much as I admire what the noble Baroness the Leader of the Opposition said. It is right that we should ask the Commons to think again, and again—and sometimes again. There comes a point, however, and the eve of Prorogation certainly is one, when we have to decide whether we wish the Bills to go forward or not. I have many criticisms of all of them, but at the end of the day the primacy of the House of Commons should prevail, and I very much hope that there will not be any more Divisions this evening.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their views. I think that ultimately we are all agreed that, although we accept the primacy of the Commons, in many of these Bills the Government have made concessions, which is just as it should be: many Bills, if not all Bills, are improved in this House. I hope that that will be the case here. I agree with my noble friend that we should finish it tonight.

Arrangement of Business

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 27th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, does the Government Chief Whip agree that this is going to cause tremendous problems for people working remotely, and that it underlines the unsatisfactory nature of hybrid proceedings? How are they going to find time or know how they can table amendments within that one-hour period? Will the Government Chief Whip, through the usual channels, look at every possible way to get this House back to working normally, so that everyone can participate fully—particularly during this time of ping-pong, which is a very important time for final discussion and debate on vital amendments? People who are not able to come here in person are at a real disadvantage. I hope the Government Chief Whip will use the usual channels to find a way to get us back to normal as quickly as possible.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Further to what my noble friend the Chief Whip has said, would he accept that it is essential that, from 21 June at the latest, it is expected that parliamentarians should be in Parliament? We should conduct business as normally as possible, in a self-regulating House, from that date. Could my noble friend give an assurance that that is indeed what the Government wish to do?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, I take the point that it is difficult at this stage with short timetables. Noble Lords do not have very much time to table amendments, but I think that is always the case in ping-pong: it comes back at short notice between the two Houses. It is the way that we have to resolve issues between the two Houses. To a certain extent, whether this happens is not entirely in the gift of the Government —it depends on how long amendments keep on being pushed. I accept that it is difficult and that the hybrid House is not completely as we want it. However, given the circumstances of the pandemic, it is a tribute to the House and the officials who run it that we are able to do business at all. This has been a tremendous achievement and we have done it as well as, if not better than, the other place.

Both noble Lords made a point about coming back to “normal”. I absolutely agree that we want to come back to normal as soon as possible. That is not entirely a matter for the Government or the Chief Whip, because this is a self-regulating House. We have to look at the data and wait for the social distancing review—that is the absolutely critical matter in coming back. As far as the Government and the Leader are concerned, I can say that we want to come back. I agree with my noble friend that parliamentarians should be in Parliament.

Children in Public Care: Unregistered Accommodation

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Monday 4th November 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, it is the turn of the Liberal Democrats.

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Thursday 26th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, there is plenty of time if noble Lords are brief. We will take Labour first.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 4th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The House of Commons—I beg noble Lords’ pardon. We think that a suitable time to meet may be when the House of Commons is clear on the decisions that it will make tonight. The House does not need to adjourn during pleasure for that to happen.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, there does not seem a lot of point, particularly in view of the extremely helpful and constructive remarks from my noble friend Lord True, in continuing on this particular path. Surely other business on the Order Paper could be dealt with. I personally think that an adjournment during pleasure is by far the most sensible solution.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan]

My Lords, may I seek clarification from what was at least a partially constructive description of what might develop? I agree with everyone else that the noble Lords, Lord True, Lord Cormack and Lord Strathclyde, as well as other noble Lords, have displayed the spirit of the House. The Chief Whip referred to pending events in the House of Commons tonight. I can see that it is absolutely essential that we know what is happening with the Bill that will come here, but was he including in his embrace—in that precondition—what might happen as regards, say, a general election? If so, what is that to do with the conduct of this House or that Bill?

Lotteries Regulation

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 16th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for doing all he can to protect the exclusive position of the National Lottery. John Major’s legacy is in fact one of the most positive legacies of any Prime Minister in peacetime. He deserves the thanks of all parts of the House for that. But I enter one note of caution. Is my noble friend aware that the munificent grants from the National Lottery have recently begun to decline in the heritage sector? The assisted places of worship scheme has been abandoned, which does not mean that money is not being given to places of worship but there is no longer one exclusive earmarked pot. I am glad to see the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, with her interest in Ripon Cathedral—mine, of course, is in Lincoln—nodding vigorously. Will my noble friend keep his eye on this? Anything that significantly reduced the impact of the National Lottery in the field of heritage, sport and the arts would be a blow to all parts of the nation.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I completely agree with my noble friend. Heritage causes, among others, are very important and have benefited hugely from the National Lottery, which gives about £1.6 billion a year to good causes. I cannot remember the exact figure for national heritage, but I think it is £300 million to £400 million of that. It is a reasonably significant amount. I certainly will keep an eye on it. The Minister, whose name I have forgotten—I did not forget her name, I forgot her title; I know what her name is—is keen to make sure we continue to provide as much as we can for good causes, which certainly include heritage. In many ways the structure we have prevents Governments directly getting into exactly what is provided for through the National Lottery, which is good, but I certainly take my noble friend’s point about heritage, which continues to be a very important part of what the National Lottery supports.

National Lottery Heritage Fund Grants: Conservation Management Plans

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 24th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The National Archives has talked to bodies such as the National Lottery Heritage Fund to make sure that they can make arrangements in future so that there is a single point of access, if you like, for these documents. As I said before, the issue is making sure that the owner of the intellectual property or the copyright enables that to happen. Physically, it is possible. The archives sector is discussing that, and Historic England is promoting the heritage information access strategy, which is designed to do exactly that and have one point of access.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as we are marking this very month the 150th anniversary of the Historical Manuscripts Commission, now subsumed in the National Archives, can my noble friend follow up on what he said a few minutes ago, indicating that what have been destroyed are copies? Can we establish how many of the originals survive, and at the very least can a list of those—properly tabulated—be deposited in the National Archives?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

As I mentioned earlier, the fund has offered to compile a list of the 1,300 park and garden projects for which conservation management plans might have been produced, although it estimates that there are about 500 to 600. As I said, that list will be available to those who ask for it.

Festival of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 2022

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Monday 18th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I imagine that the noble Lord wants it to be publicly funded, but I do not think that that is necessarily what the public want.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that local authorities that disperse or sell collections, or propose to close galleries, are in fact repudiating the past and those who have been kind enough and benevolent enough to give? Does he agree that it is something that should on all occasions be avoided?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

No, my Lords, I do not agree. Sometimes museums have to do what the Mendoza review suggested—that is, to have a dynamic collections policy, which in some cases means getting rid of some pieces which are in storage and are not being preserved well because they are not in ideal conditions, and using the money raised to preserve the best items in their collection and to buy new items which might interest a younger audience.

Brexit: Museums and Galleries

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Monday 4th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s first point about staff being abused, we were aware of that, particularly after the result of the referendum was announced, but we are not aware of it recently. I should make it absolutely clear that it is deplorable, unacceptable and should not happen and that we welcome foreign nationals working in and visiting our museums. It is possible that tourism may go down, but we are optimistic. In fact, VisitBritain forecasts that visits will grow by 3.3% this year, which is similar to the average rate.

Turning to European cultural funds, for the museum and gallery sector these are remarkably small. One or two individual museums have had European funding and we will guarantee to support funding until the end of the multiannual financial framework. However, to put it into perspective, all public funding for museums and galleries is about £844 million a year. The biggest European fund, Horizon 2020, has given €14 million in the entire seven-year multiannual framework.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that many of the greatest exhibitions in London and the provinces depend on loans from kindred institutions in Europe and elsewhere. Will he give an assurance that this will be at the forefront of the Government’s thinking? If some of these wonderful exhibitions ceased to be, scholarship would suffer, our museums and galleries would suffer, and we would suffer.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I completely agree with my noble friend and this has been one of the issues that we have discussed with the museums and galleries. In fact, some of the contingency plans I mentioned are about exactly that: the movement of objects. Museums are using a different route, not taking the short cross-channel crossings, and are allowing more time for that.

Gambling: Fixed-odds Betting Terminals

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 10th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am not sure that such a decision is within my brief. More to the point is the question put by the noble Lord about what meetings had taken place. I can tell him that, with suitable notice. There is nothing to hide in this and we are endeavouring to engage with stakeholders. However, it is not normal practice for the internal meetings of government to be circulated—that is my answer to the noble Lord.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend go back to his department this afternoon and relay the unanimous feeling in your Lordships’ House? Where there is a will, there should be a way. Can we have a target to get all this sorted out by early October at the latest?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I can assure my noble friend that I will relay to the new Secretary of State the feeling of this House. However, it is unlikely that he is not aware of it, because the same feeling exists in the other place. I can say that I was to have had a meeting to discuss this with the previous Secretary of State, but I am afraid that meeting was cancelled.

Gaming Machines and Social Responsibility

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Thursday 17th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate, who has led on this subject and has, I know, spent a lot of time worrying about this and making positive suggestions. I am glad he is glad about this announcement.

Of course we understand the issues around children and advertising, and that is why gambling advertisements must not be targeted at children. They must not be shown around children’s programmes or include anything that appeals particularly to children or young people or that exploits them. Tougher guidance is being published on what that means by the Committee of Advertising Practice. As we set out in the consultation, the number of TV gambling advertisements seen by children has been going down each year since 2013. However, we are not complacent, and that is why we are setting out a package of measures on advertising today. We understand the right reverend Prelate’s point that advertising could normalise gambling for children, and that is why the strict controls on children’s advertising apply. As far as games and skins and things like that are concerned, the Advertising Standards Authority is aware and the Gambling Commission has cracked down hard on operators that try to get round the rules by using games and non-monetary prizes in games online.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I add my thanks and congratulations to my noble friend. He should bask in this glory while he can, but may I just say to him that I hope the Government will have a target date for implementation? One understands that there has to be time, but could we please fix a date—the end of the year, perhaps—by which this will come into force? Every week that goes by adds to human misery. Could we perhaps also suggest to those who want to have a £2 flutter that they can benefit their communities if they buy lottery tickets?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My noble friend makes a good point. I have spent many minutes—possibly even hours—not giving a timetable for various things, and I am afraid that I cannot be very specific today. I can only repeat to my noble friend what I said before. We have spent a lot of time considering this issue and have taken a lot of advice, and people have expressed strong opinions. We have now come to a decision and therefore want to implement it. There are procedures to go through —it has to go through Parliament—and we will do what we can to implement it. However, I am unable today to give a precise timetable, not least because the parliamentary timetable is somewhat uncertain.

Historic Cathedrals

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Monday 14th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to assist England’s historic cathedrals.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, cathedrals are powerful symbols of our history, and we are committed to supporting these important buildings through the £42 million Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme. We also provided £40 million of funding via the First World War Centenary Cathedral Repairs Fund, which closed last year. Cathedrals can apply to the Heritage Lottery Fund for funding for a range of projects, including capital repair. HLF has invested £120 million in protecting and conserving these iconic buildings.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful for what my noble friend said. However, he must realise that we are talking of the most important group of historic buildings in our land. The cost of their maintenance is enormous and, while the money he referred to has been most gratefully received, we really need—I ask him to consider this—an endowment fund for cathedrals, independently administered. If he would like to see at first hand the complexities of maintaining a great cathedral—perhaps the greatest of them all—would he accept my invitation and come as my guest to Lincoln?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, as I said, we accept that the cost of repairing and maintaining these significant and marvellous old buildings is enormous, so I am glad that 57 of our wonderful cathedrals were able to benefit from the First World War fund. At the moment there are no new plans for new funding aimed specifically at cathedrals—but, of course, the listed places of worship scheme continues, as does the HLF scheme under which cathedrals and other places of worship can apply for maintenance.

Further to that, we are currently exploring new models of financing the repair and maintenance of church buildings through a pilot scheme under the Taylor review. Although the review did not talk specifically about cathedrals, the lessons from it can apply. I know, for example, that my noble friend has already been to see the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to put the case for more funding.

As for Lincoln, a couple of weeks ago I spent some time looking at what was going on at Hereford. In due course, diary permitting, I will be very pleased to go to Lincoln as well—as long as I can go on the roof and have a look.

Elections: Personal Data

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 18th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, how many desk officers are dealing with this problem?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

Quite a few!

Video Games: Domestic Violence and Child Abuse

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 6th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I took the Digital Economy Bill through this House so I cannot agree with the first part of the noble Baroness’s question. These things that are beyond the pale in many ways were available on the internet before and have nothing to do with what is now the Digital Economy Act. We are looking at ways to make this country the best place to be safe online and we will continue to do that.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, why is there any equivocation here? Cannot my noble friend accept that the logical consequence of what every noble Lord has said this afternoon—and what he himself has said—is that these things should be banned, full stop?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That is why we set up an independent body. That is better than giving me or any other Minister the power of censorship over these things.

English Churches and Cathedrals Sustainability Review

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 15th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Of course, I understand the implications of the HLF’s fairly sudden decision to close the grants for the places of worship scheme. As a result, the Minister responsible has had discussions with the HLF. I am pleased to say that it has guaranteed to make available the same proportion for the next two years, so the funding will continue. As for other faiths, it is true that the review concentrates on the Church of England, but any lessons learned from that can be taken forward and applied to other faiths. The main government funding, of course, applies to other faiths.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that some comfort will be drawn from his words, but does he also accept that the churches and cathedrals of this country, of which Lincoln is a prime example, are among the glories of the western world? Will he recognise that the generosity of the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, in giving £50 million towards the repair and restoration of cathedrals was most welcome but it is a tiny sum of money compared with the importance of the buildings? Can we have an assurance that the Government will repeat that largesse in the very near future?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The Government have already committed to maintaining the funding until 2020. In fact, there is a good story to tell: over the past 40 years —so this includes Governments of both colours— £1.36 billion has been spent on historic places of worship. During the 2014-16 period, an exceptional total of £185 million per year was spent. Of course, the fund that my noble friend mentioned was just one area in which the Government have spent money. As a result of this 40 years of taxpayers’ money being spent on them, only 4% of those listed places of worship are on the at-risk register.

Review of Gaming Machines

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 31st October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

As I just said, the stake is not the only thing that matters. That is why we are introducing a package of measures. The level of stake is important, obviously, and that is why we are committed to reducing it. But there are economic impacts that must be taken into account, depending on the level of stake that is chosen. The spin rates are important, as are the other measures which may deter people from gambling. I hope the right reverend Prelate will contribute to the consultation.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that it is not just the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths—whom we are delighted to see on the Front Bench—the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and the right reverend Prelate who have misgivings about this? This is a very disappointing Statement. This is a social issue where we look to the Government to give firm guidance and leadership and not to pussyfoot around. It really is important that the moment this—what I consider unnecessary—period of consultation is over, we have firm action.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree with the noble Lord that the Government should provide guidance and leadership. That is why we have said we believe that the stakes should be reduced. But we have also said—sensibly, I think—that these things have to be done in a proper way and if they are not done in a responsible and thoughtful way, according to the evidence, problems may ensue from that. This 12-week consultation is necessary.

Brexit: Creative Industries

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 18th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

If they perceive that, there is that danger, so we must work very hard to make sure that that perception does not exist.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, while acknowledging and agreeing with everything that has been said and welcoming the tone of my noble friend’s responses, will he also recognise the enormous importance of collaboration and co-operation between the great museums and galleries of Europe? That has been responsible, among other things, for bringing some of the finest exhibitions not only to London but throughout Europe. It would impoverish us all and the generations after if there was an impediment to that.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree with my noble friend. Collaboration in the cultural scene applies not only to Europe but to other countries in the world. We want to make sure that that collaboration continues and is improved. I mentioned Creative Europe. It is important as a fund not only for the relatively small amount of money that we have received but because it is a totemic fund that encourages partnership and enables us to take a lead role in that.

New Art Gallery

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Monday 16th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, while endorsing everything that has been said about the Walsall gallery, which I know, I ask my noble friend to reflect that local authorities are under great pressure all over the country. Can something be done fairly expeditiously to try to ensure that other galleries currently under threat do not go under? If we deprive people of the spiritual sustenance that galleries and museums bring, we are impoverishing them.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I completely agree with my noble friend. That is why the DCMS culture White Paper was so keen on highlighting the importance to local communities of the arts and heritage sector. However, it is right that when difficult decisions are made, they should be made by local people, not centrally by Ministers.

Trustees

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Thursday 3rd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Baroness is quite right that that Act gave the Charity Commission more extensive powers, and the things she mentioned are monitored. The commission opened 100 statutory inquiries and used its legal powers more than 1,000 times in 2014-15, compared with 15 statutory inquiries and 200 uses of legal powers in the previous year, so it was already doing more, but I take note of what the noble Baroness says about the things that should be monitored.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chairman of the Historic Lincoln Trust. Does my noble friend recognise that trusts depend very much on volunteers? It really is important in this next week that we recognise the importance not only of trustees, but of the volunteers upon which so many enterprises depend.

National Citizen Service Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

2nd reading (Hansard - part two): House of Lords
Tuesday 25th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed from all around the House—and particularly to those noble Lords who took the time to come and see me. I particularly relate to the story of the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, of mild panic before a speech, but I hope that I will overcome that.

It is very pleasing, as my noble friend Lord Cormack mentioned, that virtually universally there was support for the NCS itself. I am grateful for that: the NCS programme has deserved it. I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Barker—who is not in her place, but explained why—who, in a way, went against the mood of the House and subjected the Bill and the charter to intense scrutiny. I pay tribute to her for doing that, and I hope that I will be able to answer some of those questions when we come back to the Bill in Committee.

I am also grateful for the suggestions on how we might help NCS reach out to people from all backgrounds and for the emphasis on placing NCS in a wider social action journey for young people. As far as amendments are concerned, I am happy to listen to and meet noble Lords to discuss them before Grand Committee if they so wish. I am not going to make any commitments on individual amendments tonight, but I assure the House that we will listen and I will answer as many questions as I can in the time.

NCS does not and should not stand alone. We will continue to support opportunities for young people before NCS. As the National Council for Voluntary Organisations said, NCS can act as a springboard to other opportunities. Last month the Government announced a further £80 million of funding for the youth sector. The initiatives will be jointly delivered by the Government and the Big Lottery Fund, with £40 million going towards the new Youth Investment Fund, targeting disadvantaged communities across England, and an additional £40 million providing continued support for Step Up to Serve’s successful #iwill youth social action campaign.

Within that broad and varied journey, we also see the value in a single unifying rite of passage for young people. NCS is available and affordable. It has a distinct combination of personal development and the chance to mix with people from other backgrounds. I am pleased to say that although the Bill as introduced will apply to England only—my noble friend Lord Wei mentioned this—the Northern Ireland Executive continue to deliver NCS with their own delivery partner, Co-operation Ireland, which has distinct expertise in bringing communities together. We maintain a positive dialogue with the Welsh Assembly Government and the Scottish Government. This Government’s aspiration remains to have NCS available throughout the UK in a way that recognises devolution and the distinct circumstances in different areas.

I shall try to answer some of the points that noble Lords have raised. The noble Baroness, Lady Royall, in what I thought was a very good speech, mentioned recruiting hard-to-reach young people. We agree in principle that it is important that we should continue to do that; NCS exists to promote social cohesion, social engagement and social mobility. The Government are committed to providing a place on NCS to every young person who wants one. One of the trust’s primary functions is to enable participants from different backgrounds to work together in local communities. The charter codified this vital function, making clear its central importance to the trust’s mission.

The noble Baroness and my noble friend Lord Cormack mentioned refugees who come into this country. Anyone who is resident or receiving education in England is welcome. As I said, we are committed to providing a place for those who want it.

My noble friend Lady Byford asked about marketing and how successful it is in reaching the hard to reach. The trust needs freedom to innovate and the space to try new approaches to reach young people, particularly the hardest to reach. For example, it has successfully secured the endorsement of musicians and YouTube video bloggers with a high profile among young people. Incorporating the NCS Trust within the royal charter will position the trust above party politics and retain its operational independence to enable it to do that.

I turn to a subject that many noble Lords mentioned: HMRC, and whether it will reach hard-to-reach groups. I admit that when I first heard of this, the thought of getting a brown envelope from HMRC did not seem exactly the most favourable marketing tool. However, a bit like the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market, having had what I would say was a normal view of HMRC I then spent some time as a Treasury Whip defending its very good work. I know that in this case the reason we are doing it is purely that HMRC has the best data available. At the moment the NCS Trust uses commercial data that it has to buy. HMRC data are protected in a special way that means it cannot just hand them over to the NCS Trust to use. So we intend for the NCS Trust to provide its own letter—it will not necessarily even be in a brown envelope—and we will just use HMRC as a postbox to try to reach as many people as possible.

[Lord Cormack]

Can my noble friend assure us that there will not be any other enclosures in the envelope?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I cannot guarantee that there will not be any enclosures, but I do not think there will be the one that my noble friend is thinking of. It is only one way of reaching young people. Schools, local authorities and direct marketing all play a role.

The noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market, also talked about the importance of people with disabilities. The trust is currently developing a detailed inclusion strategy to ensure that over the long term there is consistent and high-quality provision for all. Many NCS providers already reach out and offer support to those with disabilities. For example, the largest provider, The Challenge, has worked for the National Deaf Children’s Society. It has adapted the programme for young people and has provided dedicated support workers. Across NCS, young people with special educational needs have personal coaches and one-to-one support workers alongside staff members. However, I acknowledge there is work to do in this area.

Many noble Lords mentioned local authority engagement. The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for example, was one. We certainly want NCS to be woven into the social fabric of communities and local authorities clearly have a central role to play in this. That is why officials from the DCMS have been engaging with local authority representatives in a series of regional workshops on working with NCS. The ideas generated will feed into national government guidance, setting out how local authorities can promote NCS and maximise the benefits in their area.

The noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and my noble friend Lady Byford asked if we should reconsider the requirement and duty of schools to promote NCS. I do not think we are going to do that. We want to work collaboratively with schools, rather than impose burdens on them. We are working with representatives from schools to develop guidance on working with NCS. I have some personal experience on other Bills before your Lordships’ House of imposing duties on education establishments, and it certainly was not very popular at the time. I fear therefore that we are not going to do that.

As far as whether there should be a duty on the NCS Trust to collaborate with the wider sector, we are certainly ready to discuss that in Committee in detail. At the moment, the NCS Trust partners a broad range of charitable and social enterprise organisations—over 200—which deliver NCS. Young people often develop lasting links with the organisations they work with, making a real impact at grass-roots levels with local community groups. The trust is a part of Generation Change, a group of youth organisations looking to collectively increase the scale, quality and status of youth social action programmes. The trust is committed to helping NCS become a gateway to other programmes and opportunities, helping young people to see volunteering as a habit for a lifetime.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, asked whether NCS should just be a commissioner of programmes. As I mentioned, the NCS Trust oversees the delivery and it already works with a supply chain of over 200 regional and local providers. The trust’s job is to shape, support and champion NCS by promoting it to young people across the country. At the moment, however, we want to maintain the flexibility of the NCS Trust to do the job in the way that seems best for it.

My noble friend Lord Wei and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, asked about small charities and I agree this is a very important consideration because small and medium-sized charities play a vital role in NCS delivery, particularly in hard-to-reach groups, which can be targeted in the groups’ local area. At the moment, some of the bigger providers use smaller charities to do exactly that. The royal charter requires the NCS Trust to ensure equality of access to the programme and have regard to the desirability of promoting social mobility.

The noble Baroness, Lady Royall, asked about pre- and post-NCS and whether we would consider amendments to support and not undermine youth social action groups. I certainly look forward to discussing that with her in Committee. The NCS Trust has expertise specifically in NCS, and I must say that we are cautious about seeing the trust, or indeed the Bill, as a vehicle for everything that the Government will continue to support, as my noble friend Lady Vere mentioned, but I accept that that is a point to be discussed in Committee.

My noble friend Lady Byford also asked what happens after NCS. The NCS provides an online opportunity hub for NCS graduates to help them on their next step. I noted the idea of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, of enterprise passports, which I will have to consider in further detail.

The noble Baroness, Lady Royall, talked about reporting and asked how many graduates go on to later volunteering. I mentioned that 2013-14 graduates undertook 8 million hours of volunteering. The NCS Trust is focused on the NCS programme, but the Government are committed to support the wider social action journey, and we are keeping it under review.

Many noble Lords talked about a commission or a review, and I thank noble Lords for the suggestion on full-time volunteering. The Government made a manifesto commitment to support social action. We know that there continue to be challenges and obstacles to participation in some forms of social action, and are therefore considering how they can be identified and addressed—the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, also mentioned that.

My noble friend Lord Hodgson talked about the International Citizen Service. We agree that the NCS is an excellent gateway to it—it is for a separate age group, the next age range up. ICS benefits both its participants and the UK’s standing abroad, so we agree with him on that. NCS has a big task ahead of it in getting more people to join, so for the time being we are not ready to commit to an international element, but we recognise that NCS can act as a step towards the ICS.

My noble friend Lord Cormack talked about citizenship ceremonies, which is a long-standing cause of his. The NCS itself culminates in a graduation ceremony with a certificate signed by the Prime Minister, and I invite my noble friend to attend one, but I take on board his wider suggestions, which may not be part of the Bill.

I will answer some of the questions of the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, which are relevant to other noble Lords. She asked why such a large sum is spent on NCS. We will provide funding to deliver the manifesto commitment of a place available for everyone who wants it. The Bill will require the trust to lay its annual accounts and reports before Parliament, to ensure that Parliament can continue to protect value for money for the taxpayer. We make no apologies for what NCS is: it is unique and requires investment of both money and effort, especially in hard-to-reach groups. NCS is successful and a countrywide badge which applies equally from Berwick-upon-Tweed to Billericay. We think it is money well spent and we hope to grow it in a sustainable way.

My noble friend Lord Wei asked probably the most difficult question of the debate: will I guarantee spending post-2020? That is a hard thing to ask a Minister, particularly one who has been in post for only a few weeks. The answer is, obviously, that I cannot bind a future Government, but the Bill goes as far as it can to entrench NCS as an institution.

The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, asked whether the service could be delivered by other organisations. There is no comparative analysis. It is delivered by more than 200 organisations, as I said. The NCS Trust acts as a central commissioning body and promotes the programme. As for comparative analysis, it is difficult to compare it to something similar because this is unique. But, of course, its value for money will be undertaken by the National Audit Office. Accounts are available online, and if anyone cannot find them we will be happy to supply the link. They will continue to be available online.

The noble Baroness, Lady Royall, talked about amending the royal charter, and said there was no consultation. It was published as a Command Paper, giving both Houses the opportunity to scrutinise it and see that it provides for appropriate government oversight on such matters as the appointment of board members and the chair. The charter expresses the Government’s commitment to the independence and permanence of the trust. We believe that the royal charter achieves the right balance between protecting NCS for the future, while allowing its scope to evolve.

I want quickly to talk about one thing which is very important. Many noble Lords have mentioned the growth targets of the NCS Trust. The noble Baroness, Lady Stedman-Scott and the noble Lords, Lord Blunkett and Lord Lennie, asked whether there would be quality in the outcome. We have made the commitment that there will be a place for everyone, but we do not want to put numerical targets before quality. The programme has grown because people value it, and we remain committed to offering this place. We agree that quality is very important and we want to provide a quality place for everyone who wants it. How will that be judged? An annual report will have to be published, and it is specifically mentioned that the quality of the year’s performance has to be reported on.

I am coming to an end and I am sorry that I cannot mention everyone’s points.

Crime: Historic Sex Abuse Allegations

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 19th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises a topical question, with the PCC elections coming up in May. The presumption of anonymity is a College of Policing guideline, and it expects that to be derogated from only when there are operational reasons for doing so; so that is a case for the chief officer of police, in the circumstances. The PCC holds the chief constable to account for the overall performance of the force, and the Mayor of London similarly holds the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police to account. Paragraph 18 of the Policing Protocol Order 2011, which sets out the PCC’s roles and responsibilities, says that,

“the PCC must not fetter the operational independence of the police force and the Chief Constable who leads it”.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Blair, referred to apologies, but one thing that has caused widespread concern is that the apologies do not appear to have been as unequivocal as they should have been.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, it is up to the commissioner in his private meeting with certain high-profile figures to deal with the matter in the way he thinks fit. One has to remember in these cases that there are sometimes public policy reasons why people’s identities should be revealed. It is obviously a sensitive issue, but one has to remember that in child sexual abuse cases, by and large, these are under-represented people and we want to encourage as many of them as possible to come forward. They face tremendous obstacles in doing so and they must be supported.

Help to Save Scheme

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Thursday 17th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as one who did hear the “Today” programme, I ask if my noble friend agrees that interpretation is in the ear of the listener.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree with my noble friend.

Syria: Refugees

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 10th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Lord is right to highlight these issues. We take this very seriously and approach it in the way that we think is the best way of approaching it; that is, that humanitarian aid in the region is the best way of doing it. We accept that for very vulnerable people in special circumstances we can provide help in this country, but we think that providing £700 million to the region is the most effective way of providing our humanitarian aid, which will help people in that area. It provides basic things such as water and food, which can help the largest numbers of people, and it complements the UN’s programme because we take the people into this country that it suggests to us and we provide money in the area to deal with the people directly on the ground.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is not this crisis continuing to destabilise the whole region? Is not the only long-term answer a proper political solution in Syria? Does that not mean that we have to talk sensibly and intelligently with the Assad regime, much as we might like to hold our noses while doing so? What has got to be smashed is the power of ISIS, and that cannot be done unless there has been an intelligent dialogue with the present Syrian regime.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree with my noble friend that ending the war and defeating extremism will be the way to end the humanitarian crisis in the long term. That requires military pressure and a political settlement. However, we feel that that requires replacing the Assad regime with a Government who can represent all Syrians, in order to prevent further conflict. We are looking carefully at the UN envoy’s plan for local ceasefires to freeze the conflict. We support his work and we think that plan, together with direct help from aid on the ground, is the best way of achieving this.

EU Budget Surcharge

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Cormack

Monday 10th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

Actually, my Lords, we have had one question from each.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, I was saying to my noble friend: is this not the most skilful manoeuvre we have seen since Disraeli caught the Whigs bathing and ran away with their clothes?