Chagos Islands: UK-US Defence Relationship

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Thursday 5th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I agree with the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that we need to allow the new incoming Mauritian Government the time and space to do what they need to do. As a newly elected Government, it is absolutely right that they take the time they need to consider the agreement fully. We will be working with them. As the noble Lord said, Jonathan Powell has been there, and we are answering any questions that we would expect them to have.

On the engagement of the Chagossian community in the parliamentary process, I completely understand why the noble Lord wants this to happen. I am not against that happening. My concern is that we do not raise expectations or lead the Chagossian community on. We are very straightforward and clear that this is an agreement between the UK Government and the Mauritian Government. We do not want to compound the cruelty and disrespect with which they have been treated over decades by not being completely straightforward with them at this stage—I am concerned about that. He knows the deficiencies of the CRaG process as well as I do, but it still remains the process.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, recent elections in Mauritius and the United States have thrown new uncertainties into the equation. Do we know when the review of the new Prime Minister, Dr Navinchandra Ramgoolam, will be concluded? That could add some several weeks or months to the considerations. What message did Mr Jonathan Powell bring back from Washington when he saw the potential new Administration?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We are not putting a timetable on this for the Mauritian Government. It is not really on us to chivvy them along; they need as long as they need to consider the agreement in the fullest way, and we respect their right to do that. Jonathan Powell has been in the United States, but we need to remember that the US has very clear rules on its engagement with other Governments in the period between the election and the inauguration in January, and we need to respect its rules on that.

Ukraine

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Thursday 5th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am very pleased with our strategic defence review, its wide remit and the engagement that it has from not just the MoD but across Whitehall and more widely into academia and elsewhere. It will be a good piece of work. It reports in the spring, and I look forward to it. As for the noble and gallant Lord’s comment about the incoming US Administration being the principal determinant of the outcome of the war, I respectfully disagree. The people who will determine the outcome of this war and where this goes next should be and are the people of Ukraine.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, there is an increasing assumption that peace negotiations may begin in the new year and lines will be drawn at the then-existing front lines of the conflict. Is it not therefore important that we provide sufficient arms and help to the Ukrainians to ensure that no further territory is lost over the coming months?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I have heard much commentary about the basis on which negotiations may or may not begin. At this stage, this is all speculative and hypothetical. It is probably better that from these Benches we do not try to construct some kind of framework for negotiation without including the people of Ukraine.

Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We have not as yet, because, as noble Lords will know, the delegation has only very recently been identified. The noble Baroness is right to say that that is one of the key functions of the parliamentary assembly, and we will look at who will be the best person both for the Council of Europe and the priority that the UK places on the important role of the European Court of Human Rights. We will take the appropriate action when the time comes.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, as a former member of the committee of the Council of Europe that chose the judges, I suggest to my noble friend the Minister that the committee would be wary if there were undue pressure from the Government on the members in relation to the selection.

Taipei Representative Office in the United Kingdom

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Monday 25th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, whenever I am asked about my feelings on these issues, I know that it is probably wise to choose my words incredibly carefully. To reiterate: the Government do not have any plans to change the current long-standing position, but we have deep ties with Taiwan through various means, as do our Parliaments. Much as I hear and understand the noble Baroness’s concerns about the current situation, at present the Government do not plan to change it.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, are there any steps, short of full recognition, that would recognise that Taiwan/Taipei is a democracy with very warm relations with the United Kingdom?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We do recognise that. I know that several noble Lords in this Chamber have undertaken many meetings with and visits to Taiwan. This Parliament and representatives of Taiwan enjoy that connection and relationship. Long may that continue.

British Indian Ocean Territory: Negotiations

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We are watchful; of course we are. But there is nothing in this treaty, however, that leads us to have the kind of concern that has been alluded to. As I have said, the treaty would prevent not just China but any other foreign nation from undertaking activities on the other islands other than Diego Garcia.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the expulsions were a major blot on our latter colonial history. But those expelled are now living in exile, and many of them are settled and have got used to the countries where they are. Are the Government concerned that there is a certain romanticism about the idea of returning to these islands—particularly for the children and grandchildren who have never seen them and have got used to the good life elsewhere—and that many of those with that romantic view might return only for a brief period before returning to their places of exile?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I think it is very important that we allow Chagossians, whether they are first generation or grandchildren, to decide for themselves how they feel about that. They will have the ability to return and they will also have the ability to visit Diego Garcia. I am reminded of a question from the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, about visits. He probably does not realise, but visits to Diego Garcia were taking place before Covid. There was then a pause and they have not restarted since then, so this is not the first time this has happened. The intention is for visits to Diego Garcia to be able to take place in the future.

Ethiopia and Somalia

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We completely understand why Egypt and Sudan would be concerned about access to water through the Nile and the dam, but the only way that this gets resolved is through dialogue between Ethiopia and Egypt, and we support any work that can happen to resolve this in as amicable a way as possible in the circumstances.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, Somalia is in great disarray. By contrast, the former British protectorate Somaliland is stable, and a model in that part of Africa. What are the prospects of the African Union accepting independence, just as it accepted Eritrea’s independence from Ethiopia?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

The United Kingdom’s position is consistent and clear that, notwithstanding our long-term relationship with Somaliland, it is absolutely an issue for Somalia to resolve. I cannot be clearer about that. We respect the territorial integrity of Somalia and the steps that it will take to resolve this issue itself.

Ukraine

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

We are completely committed to supporting Ukraine to defend itself. I just point to our commitment to provide £3 billion per year every year until 2030-31, or for as long as is necessary.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, we should give President Zelensky the long-range weapons that he needs, but surely we cannot give him a blank cheque politically. The war has entered a phase of attrition. Surely now we must ask ourselves: to what extent is it realistic to expect Russia to have a policy where it leaves entirely both Crimea and the rest of Ukraine? Otherwise, the war of attrition and stalemate will continue indefinitely.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My view, and that of the Government, is that that assessment is for President Zelensky and the Ukrainians to reach. It is their country that has been invaded and it is for them to say on what terms, if any, they wish to negotiate.

Diplomatic Missions: Congestion Charge

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Thursday 23rd May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Like my noble friend, I must admit that there have been a few surprises in the last 48 hours, not least that the last Foreign Office Question I am doing from the Dispatch Box is about congestion charging. Nevertheless, it shows the rich diversity and flexibility of Ministers at the Dispatch Box. I agree with my noble friend and I assure him that, in our typical British way of persuasion, we continue to remind diplomats, both existing and new, of their obligations in this regard.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister name and shame the principal offenders? Are they the same countries that refuse to pay parking fines?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will have seen that TfL has published a list, but that has never been, in my mind, the right way. Many of these countries are our friends and partners and they may have differing perspectives on what the charge constitutes. We regard it as a service charge, and that is why we ask them to pay; some contest this and regard it as a tax. Gentle diplomatic persuasion but with direct challenge is the right way, but it must be done in a constructive way. Over the last seven years I have certainly learned as a diplomat that that is the best way to handle it.

Israel and Gaza

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend raises some very important points. To achieve peace, you need to have partners for peace. It is very clear that Hamas is not a partner for peace.

From engaging with people who have left Gaza, it is my opinion that Hamas has not done the Palestinians any favours. It is abundantly clear it has not put any security or protection in place for the people of Gaza. That is why we have been consistent that Hamas cannot be the governing authority in Gaza.

We also need to ensure that Israel comes to the diplomatic table. My noble friend is correct that peace agreements have been signed with Jordan and Egypt, but there are further chapters in that process with Bahrain, Morocco and the United Arab Emirates. There is talk of normalisation with the wider Gulf region. These are important elements, and, ultimately, that is what we strive to achieve. I agree with my noble friend about the recent appointment of a new Prime Minister in the Palestinian Authority, with whom we are engaging. We also need the Palestinian Authority to mitigate the previous issues that have arisen with the Palestinian leadership, to ensure that there is an inclusive approach and that, when direct discussions begin, both parties are committed to the notion of peace, stability and security. That should remain the aim of any Government.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, we all share the sense of outrage at the massacres on 7 October. Is it not now unrealistic to expect Hamas to give up the remaining hostages for a pause and not a ceasefire, knowing that giving up its main bargaining counter will open the door for Israel to seek to eliminate the remaining Hamas militants in Gaza itself? Can the Minister say what the preferred solution is for the post-conflict governance of Gaza?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, it is important that Israel is very much part and parcel of that discussion. We have seen Ministers in the Israeli Government ask that very question of their own Prime Minister. It is important that that discussion takes place within Israel. Two options currently prevail, both of which are unpalatable: that Hamas remains in governance or that the Israelis retain the security of Gaza. Neither is palatable—that is not me saying that as a British Minister; that is the opinion of the Israeli Defence Minister.

On the issue of hostages, I have just come back from Qatar, and while I cannot go into detail, we will continue to pursue that particular avenue. I have met with the hostage families, and I assure the noble Lord that anyone who has done the same knows that they can never give up. Even if it is the 59th minute of the 11th hour, we should continue in that endeavour if it means that, with all our efforts, we get one more hostage out.

Sudan

Lord Anderson of Swansea Excerpts

Thursday 18th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

There are a lot of questions there, and all very pertinent. On the last one, we gave £600,000 last year to the Sudan Witness organisation. and I am sure we will give more in the future. We hope it is compiling a record of the atrocities and that we will be able to bring those people to justice.

The noble Lord may have seen the interview my colleague, Andrew Mitchell, gave in Chad, where he saw many of the displaced people. He was incredibly moved by what he saw, and nobody who sees this can have a different emotion. The most frustrating thing is our inability to act. We have doubled our bilateral aid to Sudan and we are supporting neighbouring countries. I was in Paris on Monday at the international meeting on Sudan, where €2 billion was promised to Sudan. But if we cannot get the aid in and we cannot stop the conflict—the Sudan Government have closed the border with Chad—it is incredibly frustrating. But I will work with the noble Lord, the all-party group and others, listening to any suggestions they have for alleviating this problem.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, quite possibly the two rival leaders will slug it out at the expense of the people until one is killed or goes into exile. Do the Government see any hint of compromise at all between the two rivals?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

To be frank, no. The warring parties have clearly come to the view that there is no benefit to their aspirations in ceasing the conflict. Until one or both realise that this is the case, we will continue to put pressure on them and on those who continue to support them. We have just announced another raft of sanctions. At some point, those supplying them with the weapons, those carrying out the atrocities and those perpetrating this conflict have to realise that it has to stop.