International Relations and Defence Committee

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Gardiner of Kimble

Wednesday 2nd February 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, this Motion is consequential on the decision of the House of 1 December last year to designate the International Relations and Defence Committee as this House’s responsible committee for carrying out any inquiry into genocide under Section 3 of the Trade Act 2021. I beg to move.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I am one of those who would be very happy to see this Motion approved. It originates out of an amendment that I moved to the Trade Bill, which became the Trade Act 2021. I am a Member of the International Relations and Defence Select Committee of your Lordships’ House and was involved in the discussions about the creation of this committee. Nevertheless, I hope that the Senior Deputy Speaker will address one or two points about this that I raised and have concerns about.

First, it should be clear to your Lordships’ House that this, of course, goes no way to deal with the specific issue of genocide in Xinjiang, regularly raised by Members of this House, which is the blight of the Uighur people in that province, and that it will not be possible for the committee that is being approved to examine that situation, because there is no free trade deal with the People’s Republic of China currently in the offing. The House should be aware, therefore, that this does not deal with the substantive question that was raised at the time, and that this committee, however worthy, made up of the great and the good, will not even be able to deal with that issue.

Secondly, will the Senior Deputy Speaker give some clarity about what would happen if the identical committee that is also being established in another place were to reach a different conclusion at the end of an inquiry into this issue? Who would actually resolve that, and what would be the mechanism or procedure between the two Houses for dealing with this matter? With those simple questions, I personally am very pleased that we are making some incremental progress, at least, on this issue.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. He obviously had a very considerable input into these matters. Just to confirm, it will be for the International Relations and Defence Committee to decide when there is a need, in line with Section 3 of the Trade Act, to appoint a sub-committee into whether there exist credible reports of genocide in the territory of a counterparty to a prospective free trade agreement with the United Kingdom. These are absolutely the parameters in which this matter relates to the Trade Act 2021.

On the second matter—it is clearly an interesting point in terms of the two Houses—one question that has come across is why there was not a joint committee. My understanding is that the language of Section 3 of the Trade Act appears to preclude this, not least because different procedures apply in each House, as detailed in the Liaison Committee report which the House agreed on 1 December when it designated the IRDC as the responsible committee. Clearly, if and when there was this dialogue between the two Houses, it would be important for the two Houses and their respective committees to reflect on the fact that both Houses had a responsibility to consider these matters. But, with those two questions in mind—

Recycling: Chinese Import Ban

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Gardiner of Kimble

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we are extremely ambitious: as your Lordships know, we have some of the strongest arrangements on microbeads, certainly in Europe, if not in the world. We want to go as fast as we can, which is why the resources and waste strategy will be important, and we want to reuse and recycle more.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, what studies have the Government commissioned into the environmental hazards that may occur if we start to burn large amounts of plastic waste, and what percentage of plastic can be recycled according to the Government’s own estimates?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, following considerable investment, there are now about 40 large municipal waste plants. They are highly regulated by the Environment Agency precisely to ensure that we recover energy and, importantly, they also operate within all the emission tests. I do not have the precise figure for what is currently recyclable but I will write to the noble Lord. However, the whole essence of our objective is to cut the amount of plastic in circulation and to reduce the variety of plastic so that we can recycle ever more.

Plastic Waste

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Gardiner of Kimble

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right. We want to ensure that we use all the innovation and technology we can. It is interesting to note that a number of the key waste management companies see what has happened in China as, ironically, a real opportunity. Companies like Suez and Biffa are saying that there are real opportunities in this and they want to find alternative markets. This is a serious situation on an international scale. For example, some 56% of globally exported plastic waste ends up in China, so we need to address this issue on a global basis.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell us what percentage of the some 500,000 tonnes of plastic waste that are estimated to be exported from this country to China each year are actually capable of being recycled? Further, in his response to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, he did not say anything about incineration. There has been some speculation that the Government might support incineration, but would that not be simply adding one environmental degradation to another?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I used the phrase energy recovery. That is via the use of incineration and the source of fuel it provides is a much better use than landfill. Moreover, landfill quantities have been reduced dramatically. Some 3.7 million tonnes of plastic waste are created in this country of which 0.4 million tonnes is sent to China. That actually represents a reduction from 0.7 million tonnes of waste being exported in 2010, so a reducing amount of waste is going to China. However, it is clear that we need to do better, and that is why we are working on this issue.

Children: Online Safety

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Gardiner of Kimble

Tuesday 25th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the whole purpose of the development of the logo is to ensure that parents and children know which public places are secure. The work that is going on in developing the logo is precisely to ensure the safety of children wherever they are on the internet. I am very conscious of what my noble friend said and I will look into it further.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, can I take the Minister back to a question that I asked him a few weeks ago about the presence on the internet of suicide sites, which encourage young people to take their own lives? Did he see the two-page article in the Times highlighting some of these terrible fatalities? Does he agree that this is not caught by the provisions that he announced to the House recently and that it is a discrete question which needs to be dealt with urgently?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I am very much aware of what the noble Lord said and, indeed, of the article. Both suicide and self-harm are taken extremely seriously. The Government are committed to working with the internet industry to keep young people safe online and to promote positive support for people who are at a suicidal point. We are very concerned that, in dealing with the websites relating to suicide and self-harm, which are so appalling, we do not stop young people and others going to sites that would help them.

Children: Online Safety

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Gardiner of Kimble

Tuesday 28th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we all have a responsibility to children and the vulnerable to make sure that the extraordinary new revolution we have is used responsibly. That is why what the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State are doing is so important.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister recall that during the Second Reading debate on the admirable Bill of my noble friend Lady Howe, I raised specifically with him the case of a teenager who had taken his own life because of visits to so-called suicide sites on the internet? What more are the Government doing to outlaw such sites on the internet and to prosecute those who run them?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

As I said, anything that is illegal offline is illegal online. As for suicide and self-harm sites, that is part of the filtering element that we are looking at to ensure that children are more secure. Certainly, I would say to any provider of a suicide site that it should be taken down.

Museums

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Gardiner of Kimble

Wednesday 12th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I well understand the concern that has been expressed in the north, in particular in Yorkshire and in Manchester. Clearly, as I said, the spending review process has not been completed. I am absolutely sure that ministerial colleagues to whom I have spoken in the department are absolutely clear about the contribution that museums make to the tourism market. The DCMS museums are the first six of all visitor attractions in the country. There is a full understanding of the beneficial impact that museums make on our national life.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, would it not be a good idea if the Minister were to add to the number of visitors to some of the northern museums so that he could see for himself the quality of the Merseyside Maritime Museum, the Museum of Liverpool, Tate Liverpool, the Imperial War Museum North and the Museum of Science & Industry—to which the noble Lord, Lord Lee, has quite rightly drawn our attention today—and recognise that they make a major contribution to the cultural and educational life of the north of England? They are an indispensable asset for children in our schools. If they were to be removed at a time when we are trying to promote science, it would be an incredibly retrograde and backward step. It would also further entrench the impression of the north-south divide.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

We do not wish for one moment for there to be any sense of divide. As the noble Lord has quite rightly said, this Government and the previous Government have invested a considerable sum of money through the Renaissance programme in regional museums. Since 2011-12, £180 million has been invested by DCMS in the regional museums. As he rightly alluded to, this programme has driven up visitor numbers in regional museums so that last year there were 19.1 million visitors to regional museums. I am very much aware of the—I think that there are seven—Liverpool museums. I have visited some and it would be lovely in the summer if I could visit many more.