Covid-19: Wuhan Institute of Virology

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Bethell

Wednesday 30th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I attended the presentation by Sir Patrick Vallance at the G7 health track in Oxford in June, which was received extremely well, both by Health Ministers from the G7 countries and by the chief executives of the major pharmaceutical companies that are partners in that work. We are using our chairmanship to nudge it along, and it will cover both the pharmaceutical and the demographic elements of pandemic response. This is an example of where Britain is showing leadership in the world to carve out a clear idea of how we can respond to pandemics better in the future.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I return to the point made by the noble Viscount earlier. Who in the British Government is in direct touch with the US National Institutes of Health, and especially Professor Jesse Bloom, about the deletion of genomic sequences, which he said had no plausible scientific rationale? If it is proven that the virus came from the Wuhan laboratory and that that fact has been concealed by the Chinese Communist Party, does the Minister agree that Magnitsky-style sanctions against individual officials would be the beginnings of an appropriate response by our Government?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, specific official engagement with the investigation is done through PHE, and we have a PHE official sitting on the investigation. That is the right way of conducting a scientific dialogue. The DHSC and FCDO also have extremely active interests in this. As for the tone in which the noble Lord talked about how we should approach this challenge, I say that we have to work in partnership with other countries. There is no way in which we can demonise one country or another in this matter. Partnership is the only way ahead. What we can, I hope, bring to the party is a sense of urgency and a sense of focus.

Personal Protective Equipment: Procurement

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Bethell

Thursday 19th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I entirely agree with my noble friend. Such lists will be published. Eighty-nine per cent of the contract award notices have already been published under the Official Journal of the EU; I would be glad to send my noble friend a link.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB) [V]]

My Lords, in a Written Answer, the Minister confirmed to me that the NHS warehouse for PPE at Daventry has masks made by Medwell Medical Products. It is estimated that a quarter of the workers at its Chinese factory are Uighurs in a facility 3,444 kilometres from Xinjiang, so it is implausible that they went there voluntarily. In his Answer, why did the Minister not name the intermediary company involved? Will he now say whether it was Meheco or another state-owned company, what the value of the deal was, whether our embassy was involved, whether the UK made the deal before or after July—when Medwell was named in reports—and what steps he is taking to ensure that the United Kingdom is not complicit in using Uighur slave labour to produce PPE for the NHS and profits for the Chinese Communist Party?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I acknowledge the extremely good work that the noble Lord does on this issue. Of course, no one wants to see Uighur slave labour used to produce PPE for the NHS. On his specific questions, I do not have the details to hand, but I am happy to revisit the Written Answer that I gave him to see whether I can provide any further details.

Covid-19: Transparency and Accuracy of Statistics

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Bethell

Monday 9th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Viscount and I have corresponded on this matter. I do not accept that they suggested that the number of admissions was on the way down. Undoubtedly, the rate of increase has decelerated, but a lengthening doubling time is not the same as a halving time. The doubling time for hospital admissions was eight days at the start of September, 14 at the start of October and 20 days at the end of October. That is a slowing down of the increase, but it is not the same as a decrease.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB) [V]]

My Lords, can the Minister tell us what analysis the Government have made of the root cause and relationship to lockdowns of some 20,000 excess deaths unrelated to Covid-19 during the first wave of the pandemic, including suicide, bacterial sepsis, cardiovascular disease, cancer and other conditions? Should the Government not be publishing regular analyses of the overall harm and not just contested projections of 4,000 deaths each day or the other figures that the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, and the noble Viscount, Lord Ridley, have just mentioned?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. We do publish data on excess deaths, which is available on the PHE website, but he is entirely right: we are deeply concerned not just about the Covid deaths but the impact of Covid on others who may be seeking to access the healthcare system. That is why we made the very hard and tough decision to lock down before the NHS was put under too much pressure, and it is why we have made the commitment to keep the NHS open during this lockdown in order to manage down that excess deaths figure to which he refers.

Medicines and Medical Devices Bill

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Bethell

Committee stage & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 28th October 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, for the response he has given to the debate, but I have two questions I want to put to him. Like the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, and others, I accept that pharmaceutical companies will always want to and are entitled to reclaim research and development costs. On Monday, I referred to the phenomenal difference in the cost of remdesivir when purchased in the US at over $2,000 for a five-day treatment and Liverpool University’s estimate of $9 as the basic production cost. I asked how much public money went into developing that drug. If the Minister is unable to answer that question today, I would really appreciate it if he could undertake to write to us to let us know how much public money went into the development of that drug.

My second question is about Crown use licences, a question posed to the Minister by the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey. Are the Government considering using the Crown use licence, should the circumstances require that? It was used in the 1960s, and more recently the use of it was threatened in the case of an innovative new treatment for cystic fibrosis. The Government used the power, and that had the desired effect of bringing down the cost of that drug. Are the Government giving serious consideration to how they will use Crown use licences, should that become necessary?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for his questions. On remdesivir, I will be glad to find out whether any UK funds were used in its development and will write to him. I will also be glad to write to him about Crown use licences.

Independent Medicines and Medical Devices Safety Review

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Bethell

Wednesday 15th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

I completely endorse the comments of my noble friend. To embellish his point, it has been very interesting to see through Covid how patients have had to track their own symptoms, take advice on 111 for themselves and, in millions of cases, look after themselves at home, possibly with telemedicine to support them. This may an inflection point in the attitude of many people to their health. I certainly welcome a revolution of patient power and putting patients first in our healthcare system.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB) [V]]

My Lords, families and dedicated campaigners such as Marie Lyon have told the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hormone Pregnancy Tests, of which I am vice-chairman, that they have unequivocal admiration for the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, for compassionately understanding their pain and suffering and allowing them, for the first time in more than 50 years, to have hope. Does the Minister agree with the report’s conclusion that, when the first comprehensive study, in 1967, identified a link between congenital abnormalities and HPTs, Primodos should have been removed from the market and that this regulatory failure has seen justice delayed and denied? Will there now be an independent re-examination of the contested conclusions of the report of the expert working group? In implementing the Cumberlege recommendations without delay, what practical help and redress will be provided for families whose lives were irreparably blighted by Primodos?

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, I completely share the view of the noble Lord and of the patient groups who have unequivocal admiration for the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, who has done the nation a great service with this report. As he knows, the Primodos case is subject to legal dispute, so I cannot comment on it from the Dispatch Box, but no one can read the report without feeling great disappointment that those hardships were suffered by those women. It is of enormous regret to us all.

Gene Editing

Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Lord Bethell

Thursday 30th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, like other noble Lords I start by thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, for calling this important debate and for instigating a broad discussion of complex themes around genome editing that deserve detailed analysis. I have followed her written and spoken career and note her important debate at the Royal Society and her excellent Radio 4 “Inside the Ethics Committee” programmes around this subject. I also thank my noble friends who have spoken here with great passion and experience today for their contributions. They say that in the other place the Minister is the person who knows the most about any subject, but in this place the Minister knows the least about the subject. I have never felt that aphorism to be more true than today, and I commend noble Lords on their remarkable experience and wisdom. My noble friend Lady Bottomley put it very well: this Chamber is filled with experts who have had a part in every aspect of this debate over many decades, and for that I thank them.

I am not immersed in this subject, as some noble Lords are, but I declare an interest as I know something of the ambitions for genome editing through my work as a trustee of the Scar Free Foundation, a medical research charity, where we hope a breakthrough will improve those blighted by unsightly or painful scars. I pay tribute to my noble friend Lady Blackwood in the Department for Health and Social Care and my noble friend Lord Gardiner in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and to all those across Whitehall, Westminster, academia and industry who engage in this fascinating and broad subject.

It would be incorrect for any of us to consider the use of genome editing as heralding some sort of panacea. None the less, the opportunities posed to us by genome editing are quite incredible, and the Government are committed to seizing the opportunity but, as several noble Lords made clear, our work must be rooted in ethics and controlled by regulation, and that is where I will begin.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Carlisle set the scene very well. I recognise the deep concerns of several noble Lords. My purpose is to reassure the Chamber that the UK has a robust, evidence-based regulation regime that is under rolling review to adjust to developments as they happen. It is true that UK regulators have adopted a pro-innovation regulatory approach but, as noble Lords have made crystal clear, it must be strongly rooted in public dialogue and ethical discourse. The Government’s efforts have created a safe space for UK innovators to develop cutting-edge, disruptive products that will transform the lives of people in the UK. This regime must be committed to upholding ethical values, personal safety and public acceptability. We rigorously test public attitudes to polarising issues such as human enhancement and social justice, which were mentioned in this debate, through engagement with the public because it is not just the science that matters but what we as a society want to do with it.

To find the right balance, we have committed to engaging world-class academics and expert groups such as the Progress Educational Trust, the Nuffield Council on Bioethics, and the Wellcome Trust, which were mentioned by a number of noble Lords including the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, the noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Brinton, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Carlisle, and the self-confessed and unashamed gene editor the noble Lord, Lord Winston.

We are fully aware of the challenges presented by this technology and the anxieties it raises among some people. In response to the question about leadership asked by my noble friend Lady Bottomley, I say that we embrace our leadership role where necessary in the EU, the World Health Organization and the numerous emerging forums on this hot subject. For instance, in the wake of the revelations of germline editing mentioned by several noble Lords, the UK joined our counterparts from the US national academies to bring together a consortium on ethics at the World Health Organization. This consortium is currently accepting evidence on this issue. The deadline is 6 February, so I urge all noble Lords who can contribute to hit that cut-off date.

In response to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and others who asked about a global observatory, I can tell them that we look forward to the World Health Organization report and the prospect that it may lead to the rollout of a global observatory.

As a number of noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, mentioned, what happened in China is completely illegal in the UK, but globally standards and regulations differ, which is a challenge when it comes to the pursuit of ethical science, so Britain must have a clear and definitive voice. That is why we have set up the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation to get the balance right. As a result of this leadership, a safe place has been made in the UK to turn our country into a renowned hub for genome editing, allowing us to attract and nurture businesses.

The noble Lord, Lord Patel, spoke persuasively for a commission based on the consultation on mitochondrial disease and regulations amending the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990. The noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, suggested a House of Lords Select Committee. These ideas are worthy of consideration by the Government, and we will look closely at them. However, I emphasise that the issues brought up by genome editing are very broad, not specific, and we are already engaged in considerable public and expert consultation.

If we get the ethical framework right, the opportunities are enormous. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, mentioned Louise Brown, the first IVF baby. I have Elizabeth and Rosalie, my two IVF babies, and very beautiful and bouncing they are too. Their embryos were screened. I remember the moment well, and I remember the ethical conversation I had with my wife before we went ahead with that. I take seriously the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Winston, about the need for follow-up research. It is on the mind of parents such as me around the world.

As a number of noble Lords mentioned, there are opportunities for genome editing to create new types of medicines for tackling a range of conditions and improving the lives of patients. Who could not be moved by the story of David Sanchez in last week’s “Storyville” on the BBC? He is a charismatic young boy with sickle cell disease who described his wait for advances in genome editing that could mend the single-digit mistake in his DNA and save him from a painful affliction and an early death. The noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, my noble friend Lady Bottomley and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, mentioned rare diseases, and I was struck that up to 17% of the UK population may be affected by diseases such as Huntingdon’s. That is why we are so excited by advanced therapies. An example is CAR-T treatments. They are new, personalised, precision medicines that work by taking immune cells from a patient, reprogramming and using them to target cancers within the body. That excitement is why the NHS moved fast. It is the first health system in Europe to agree full access to CAR-T treatments. That was achieved through the fastest product approval in the NHS’s 70-year history.

We are ensuring that it is not only laboratory research to which the NHS has access. There are six licensed gene therapy products, including Kymriah, a cancer therapy, and Strimvelis, the bubble-baby therapy. More than 70 companies are developing advanced therapy medicinal products in the UK, such as Autolus, which looks at T-cell immunotherapy, and Oxford Biomedica, which looks at Parkinson’s disease. The noble Lord, Lord Patel, gave us an expert read-out on the progress of these sorts of initiatives. These business which productise research are exciting evidence of the success of our life sciences industrial strategy.

The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, asked about the genetic screening of children. This is a huge subject, and I do not have time to delve into it in huge detail, but I reassure the House that the Government are starting with those with severe illnesses. Yesterday the Government announced that a pilot of exome sequencing would be extended to whole-gene screening and that we are hoping to process hundreds of cases a year, starting this year. The department is looking at ways of extending these trials dramatically.

The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, also asked about palliative care. I reassure the House that the focus is very much on diagnostic and preventive opportunities, although there might be opportunities in pharmaco- genetics. She also asked about the genomics healthcare strategy. I reassure noble Lords that the aim is to have this published by the end of the year.

A number of noble Lords mentioned the economic opportunity presented by these medical advances. Advanced therapy companies already employ 3,000 people and that number is set to more than double by the end of 2024. Estimates are that this sector could be worth £10 billion a year to the UK by 2035.

A number of noble Lords mentioned government interventions. Since 2009, over £300 million of government investment has been committed to support commercial research and innovation in cell and gene therapies. Initiatives include the Cell and Gene Therapy Catapult and advanced therapy treatment centres. I shall give an example. As several noble Lords mentioned, the Medical Research Council is funding research into the earliest stages of human development. The team working on this research is based at the impressive Francis Crick Institute in King’s Cross—the first globally to embark on this sort of research. The work, which is ongoing, might help us better understand the development of embryos during pregnancy, and it is hoped that it will help to explain and prevent miscarriages.

An important point was raised by the noble Lords, Lord Patel and Lord Alton, and my noble friend Lord Moynihan. They suggested that it might be time for a moratorium on germline editing. I reassure the House that at present the researchers, the regulators and the Government are satisfied by the regulations as they are. However, the Government totally acknowledge that the Crick team’s research, and that of others in the future, might make suggestions for future reviews or a moratorium should the position change. The Government also acknowledge that those suggestions should be debated in Parliament and that they might lead to future regulation or legislation.

The tools of the fourth industrial revolution touch many sectors—too many to cover in this debate—but a number of noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Ridley and the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, mentioned agriculture. If the House will indulge me, I will take a brief moment to praise our fantastic British produce. It includes Welsh lamb and fantastic English wines that rival French champagne, and I need not remind the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, of spirits such as Scotch whisky which are renowned the world over.

As our climate changes, we may need to take steps to protect our food industry from warming temperatures or new pests and diseases. It is important that, should a time come where we need them, we have tools at our disposal and are sure that they will work. Genome editing and other technological advances can enable higher-yield varieties of staple crops so that we can feed our growing population or help our native varieties to withstand future conditions as our climate continues to warm.

As described by my noble friend Lord Ridley, the European Court of Justice has, regretfully, ruled that all genome-edited organisms should be treated as genetically modified. That is a shame. The Government feel that this ruling is neither scientific nor justified. As I have said previously, we would prefer a science-based, evidence-driven approach to regulation in this space, and we will revisit what regulations it might be appropriate to consider as the future landscape and our relations with the EU evolve in the coming years.

The Government are supportive of new applications for genome editing in other emerging fields that are too numerous to mention. However, I should like to refer to synthetic biology, which might allow us to make new medicines, fuels or other substances faster and more efficiently than ever before. For instance, we have seen the collaborative approach taken by government and industry in the development of the life sciences sector deals and the bioeconomy strategy. We have also seen groups such as the Synthetic Biology Leadership Council and a host of partnership programmes. The UK’s academic facilities in this exciting area of science are second to none, and they include the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell’s very own BRIDGE Lab for genomic research at Birkbeck University.

The Government are proving their passion for science, having recently committed to double the science budget. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, that the manifesto at the last general election and the Prime Minister’s statement after his successful leadership election made very clear the Government’s long-standing commitment to budgets in this area. These will enable the best research to take place in the UK, create new jobs across the country and support sectors that are crucial to the UK economy.

By way of closing, I again thank the noble Baroness for proposing this debate. It has not been possible to answer all the questions, so I will endeavour to write. I am reminded that that includes writing to the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, on GM food and trade deals, and on UKTI’s work on identifying investments in innovation.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, before the noble Lord concludes, I pressed him during the debate to reply to the correspondence that I sent him about DNA profiling. Can he undertake to place that in the Library of the House when he has answers?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, is entirely right. I shall be glad to write to him on DNA profiling. It is felt to be a little outside the scope of this debate but I will be glad to place such a letter in the Library, as requested. I thank each and every noble Lord who has spoken today for their contributions, and I look forward to this important subject being revisited in the future.